The Pilgrimage

[Jiro]

Yuna starts in Besaid and goes all the way through to Zanarkand. Linear as fuck, some might say. But what about Dona? Where does she start? She has to go backwards to get to Besaid; how counterproductive.

The Pilgrimage is all sorts of messed up. The fact that there are lost fayth but summoners are still able to prove themselves worthy is bullshit. Could one simply go straight to Yunalesca if they wanted to?

Discuss this. All of it. Messing with my head.

[Pete for President]

With Yevon obviously being corrupt as tit they'd simply 'hide' the lesser known fayth like Anima and Yojimbo. The purpose of the pilgrimage is to make the bond between summoner and guardian as strong as possible so Yunalesca can turn the guardian into a very strong Final Aeon. Travelling and overcoming challenges are good ways to strengthen that bond, so it doesn't really matter which direction you're going first I guess. Who said pilgrimages should be lineair in the first place?

Maybe you could go to Yunalesca straight away, but maybe then she just wouldn't give you the Final Aeon if she thinks the bond isn't strong enough. That's my take on it anyway.

[dunk]

besaid had a port... lol

I agree with pete, its the bond that the pilgrimage creates rather then the collection they amass. Not only that these secret aeons aren't so secret, just optional, hense lulu's first summoners fail.

[Forsaken Lover]

Yuna starts in Besaid and goes all the way through to Zanarkand. Linear as smurf, some might say. But what about Dona? Where does she start? She has to go backwards to get to Besaid; how counterproductive.

Braska was from Bevelle which means he was practically at Zanarkand but had to goa aaallll the way back to Besaid then come aaaallll the way back to Bevelle before crossing the Calm Lands and Gagazet.

Perhaps it seems inefficient but it isn't a pleasure cruise. It is supposed to be a long and arduous journey.


The Pilgrimage is all sorts of messed up. The fact that there are lost fayth but summoners are still able to prove themselves worthy is bulltrout. Could one simply go straight to Yunalesca if they wanted to?

Don't you guys remember Trema welcoming Yuna to the Zanarkand Dome? (Well, it was his model at any rate)

Spiritual Man: Journeyer of the long road, name yourself.

Yuna: I am the summoner Yuna. I have come from the island of Besaid.

Spiritual Man: Your eyes, my dear. Show me the long road you have traveled. Very good. You have journeyed well. Lady Yunalesca will surely welcome your arrival. Go to her now, and bring your guardians with you. Go.

So, yeah, the dude probably tells you to piss off if you just tried to skip Djose and Macalania or whatever.

And if you insist on seeing Yunalesca I reckon you do about as well as Auron did.

[Jinx]

Okay, so, how do you know Dona had to backtrack?

I've always wondered why they need to get the aeons in a specific order. I mean, I guess you'd just have to end up heading back to Zanarkand, but still.

I've also always wondered this: they say Yuna isn't a full-fledged summoner until she gets all of the aeons. But as soon as she gets all of the aeons, she's gotta die. This doesn't make sense.

[Jiro]

I know that Isaaru has all of the other summons at least, and he's clearly not from Besaid, so he would have had to backtrack. I just couldn't remember his name at the beginning! xD

[Jinx]

I'm saying, they say throughout the game "Yuna must complete her pilgrimage to become a full-fledged summoner."

But that would mean she's only full-fledged when she dies.

[Jiro]

You become full-fledged when you obtain the Final Aeon, so it's almost the same thing but not quite.

[Forsaken Lover]

I've always wondered why they need to get the aeons in a specific order. I mean, I guess you'd just have to end up heading back to Zanarkand, but still.

I've also always wondered this: they say Yuna isn't a full-fledged summoner until she gets all of the aeons. But as soon as she gets all of the aeons, she's gotta die. This doesn't make sense.

I think you're misremembering there.

Wakka: There's a room in there called the Cloister of Trials. Beyond is where the apprentice summoner prays. If the prayer is heard, the apprentice becomes a fully-fledged summoner, remember?

Apprentice Summoner - Learns about the Summoner Arts
Summoner - Successfully receives at least 1 Aeon
High Summoner - Defeats Sin with Final Aeon

They never go into it but I bet there have been at least a couple Summoners who got Final Aeons that weren't strong enough and they died fighting Sin.

[Jinx]

You become full-fledged when you obtain the Final Aeon, so it's almost the same thing but not quite.

What I'm saying is, she can't really go around calling herself a summoner yet. Those who become true summoners die, or become Belgemine. Well, I guess Belgemine is dead. But you know what I mean.

I know I'm nitpicking here, really.

Also, something that's always confused me--Seymour is a summoner. He is not on a pilgrimage? The game makes it pretty clear if you want to be a summoner, you go on a pilgrimage. That's the point of a summoner. Why is this?

[Freya]

Apprentice Summoner - Learns about the Summoner Arts
Summoner - Successfully receives at least 1 Aeon
High Summoner - Defeats Sin with Final Aeon


Anima is Seymours mother. She wanted him to become a summoner. He can summon Anima. He didn't want to go on the pilgrimage himself.

[Forsaken Lover]

Also, something that's always confused me--Seymour is a summoner. He is not on a pilgrimage? The game makes it pretty clear if you want to be a summoner, you go on a pilgrimage. That's the point of a summoner. Why is this?

There is some optional dialogue you can get about Seymour's backstory in Macalania Temple.
Auronlu's Complete FFX Script - Chapter VIII: Macalania (http://auronlu.istad.org/ffx-script/8.html)

Seymour as a summoner:
As a summoner, Maester Seymour's strength is matchless. Yet, he became a maester of Yevon instead of undertaking the pilgrimage to battle Sin. I think he believes that there's more to a summoner's duty than just destroying Sin.

Consider also Lulu's and Wakka's former Summoner Father Zuke who quit his Pilgrimage and became a priest.

Seymour already has his Final Aeon in Anima. He doesn't need to go on a Pilgrimage anyway.

[Jinx]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that text.


But how do you assume that his Final Aeon is Anima?

[Forsaken Lover]

Young Seymour: No! Mother, no! I don't want you to become a fayth!
Seymour's Mother: There is no other way. Use me and defeat Sin. Only then will the people accept you.

This flashback was seen in Zanarkand along with a flashback of another High Smmoner named Yocun and of course the ones with Braska, Jecht and Auron.

Consider also that when Yunalesca lists the bonds strong enough to make a Final Aeon capable of defeating Sin, she lists the bond between mother and child.

Anima was clearly made by Yunalesca and it was intended to defeat Sin.

[Jinx]

Except in that case, it makes no sense how you or any other summoner besides Seymour could use Anima.

[Freya]

Because she became a fayth, much like how all the other fayths allowed summoners to summon the same thing, once she was a fayth she could impart her wisdom on whomever, int his case, Yuna if you unlock everything.

[Jinx]

Yeah, but I don't see how she could be the FINAL AEON.

I dunno, the game kind of gives the implication you must be a living sacrifice at that time.


Fuck, I hate the plot of this game. It's like swiss--full of holes, with extra cheese.

[Freya]

We've explained everything to you Sam, it's not our fault you can't understand it. His mom WAS a willing sacrifice.

[dunk]

Yeah, but I don't see how she could be the FINAL AEON.

I dunno, the game kind of gives the implication you must be a living sacrifice at that time.


smurf, I hate the plot of this game. It's like swiss--full of holes, with extra cheese.

Its not a plot hole, this story is actualy very well rounded if you ignore x-2.

It's simple, chibi seymour completes his pilgrimage, and then does not battle sin. And so anima's fayth is moved too baaj ( upon seymours request i beleive).

Anyone can call on this aeon if the aeon is willing, only difference is - anima is more powerful in seymours control due too the strength of their bond. It's the (cheesy i know) bonds power gives the aeon the strength too defeat sin.

Once yu-yevon posses the aeon, that bond is cut and from what the game explains, severing that special bond will kill you.

[Roogle]

Yes, this concept has been explained pretty clearly. For example, if Braska had decided not to challenge Sin, then the Fayth created from Jecht would have been able to impart Braska's Final Aeon to any summoner.

I envision the path that a Summoner must take to get all of the summons like a racetrack. I am certain that Dona or other summoners had access to other paths and transportation that wasn't available to Yuna for a trip to Besaid if they wished to receive Valefor.

[Jinx]

Yes, this concept has been explained pretty clearly. For example, if Braska had decided not to challenge Sin, then the Fayth created from Jecht would have been able to impart Braska's Final Aeon to any summoner.



When is this explained?

[dunk]

Yes, this concept has been explained pretty clearly. For example, if Braska had decided not to challenge Sin, then the Fayth created from Jecht would have been able to impart Braska's Final Aeon to any summoner.



When is this explained?

Pretty sure its explained pretty well by yunalesca, about the bonds and stuff.

[Forsaken Lover]

When is this explained?

Yunalesca: Welcome to Zanarkand. I congratulate you, summoner. You have completed your pilgrimage. I will now bestow you with that which you seek. The Final Summoning...will be yours. Now, choose. You must choose the one whom I will change...to become the fayth of the Final Summoning.

Tidus' group gasp.

Yunalesca: There must be a bond, between chosen and summoner, for that is what the Final Summoning embodies: the bond between husband and wife, mother and child, or between friends. If that bond is strong enough, its light will conquer Sin. A thousand years ago, I chose my husband Zaon as my fayth. Our bond was true, and I obtained the Final Aeon.

[Jinx]

Yeah, no, I've played the game.

I'm saying, where is it explained that if someone receives the Final Aeon and doesn't use it against Sin, that particular aeon becomes accessible to other people?

[Forsaken Lover]

There is no difference between a Final Aeon and an Aeon in terms of general function. Whoever becomes the Fayth for the Final Summoning is just another soul trapped in a statue, same as any other Fayth.

So there's no reason to think that, if another Summoner came and prayed to that fayth, he couldn't receive the aeon too.

Granted Seymour is a unique case because he's the only known person to not have used his Final Aeon against Sin.

But you see what I'm getting at right? I think it makes perfect sense.

[dunk]

Yeah, no, I've played the game.

I'm saying, where is it explained that if someone receives the Final Aeon and doesn't use it against Sin, that particular aeon becomes accessible to other people?

Seems like your clutching at straws now tbh, a bit of common sense answers your question.

Its not explained, however yuna did it, therefore it must be so? theres nothing saying it can't be done... and nor is there a reason too think it can't be done either so i don't know what your getting at anymore.

[Jinx]

Yeah, no, I've played the game.

I'm saying, where is it explained that if someone receives the Final Aeon and doesn't use it against Sin, that particular aeon becomes accessible to other people?

Seems like your clutching at straws now tbh, a bit of common sense answers your question.

Its not explained, however yuna did it, therefore it must be so? theres nothing saying it can't be done... and nor is there a reason too think it can't be done either so i don't know what your getting at anymore.

And I was never talking to you, anyways. So fuck you, too.

Forsaken Lover--I disagree, but I guess we'll have to just agree to disagree. :)

[Forsaken Lover]

I guess that's fine but I'm not sure what there is to argue. Do you not think Anima was Seymour's Final Aeon? It seem pretty clear from the dialogue that she was.

[Jinx]

Yes, that's what I'm saying.

And I disagree. I feel it's ambiguous, at best. Every time I've played through it, I got the impression she was just meant to be a regular aeon. When she said, "Use me to defeat Sin" I sort of saw it in the same way as you use Valefor, Ifrit, etc to defeat Sin. While they may not be the Final Aeon, they are used in the Pilgrimage to defeat Sin.

It makes no sense that she would leave her son to become the Final Aeon then. How does she know you have to do this, when no one in Spira does? Why not wait until her son is grown, so he has a mother? The game says that Seymour postponed his Pilgrimage (or quit it, whatever) to become a Priest of Yevon, but it never says how far he GOT in his Pilgrimage.

The game never explicitly says it, so I don't really accept that as canonized fact.

[fire_of_avalon]

They never said that no one in Spira knows what happens and how the Final Aeon is created. Yuna obviously knows - which is why her relationship to Tidus is so awkward and strained. She doesn't want to get close to anyone she'll have to say goodbye to, or worse yet murder.

Lulu would've known as well, as she'd been on pilgrimages before. The game doesn't say it because it's told heavily from Tidus' perspective, and he doesn't know - not being from Spira and all.

So I think Anima was intended to be a final Aeon for Seymour, as all of the Aeon's probably were at one point or another.

EDIT: Also, calm down Boobs. When you post in a thread you're talking to anyone who wants to talk back. And dunk, don't be condescending.

[Forsaken Lover]

I'm pretty sure none of them (except Auron obviously) knew about the Guardian being the Fayth for the Final Summoning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyCb6-aP3lo

Exhibit 1: Yuna is obviously confused and highly distressed that the Fayth is vacant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyCb6-aP3lo&t=3m25s

Exhibit 2: Yuna's silence is because of obvious confusion which necessitates Yunalesca elaborating that she must choose the one to become the Final Fayth.

Exhibit 3: Everyone's gasp of horror at this pronouncement.

Also Tifa's Boobs, there is a simple reason for why Seymour's mom did that to him-
she's terrible.

. Just listen to the nonsense she spouts when you get Anima.

Seymour's Mother: And so I becae a fayth. But... Because I let him taste power, He began to thirst for more. He was not satisfied with my aeon. He wanted more. More power.

Or maybe you scarred him for life.

[fire_of_avalon]

The alternative is that I'm totally wrong. xD

I need to play this game again.

[Mirage]

I do too, but I'll wait for the HD edition.

[Jiro]

The "sacrifice" that a guardian endures to become the Final Aeon is to become a fayth. Fayths are able to impart their wisdom on whomever they choose. Anima is not Yuna's Final Aeon because their bond is not strong enough to draw out Anima's true power. Jecht, too, would have been summonable were Yuna to pray to him, but I doubt their bond would have been strong enough either. Now if Tidus were to gain the ability to summon Jecht, then it probably would've been powerful enough of a bond to be the Final Aeon - if you discount the fact he was already successfully summoned and defeated Sin.

[Jinx]

The "sacrifice" that a guardian endures to become the Final Aeon is to become a fayth. Fayths are able to impart their wisdom on whomever they choose. Anima is not Yuna's Final Aeon because their bond is not strong enough to draw out Anima's true power. Jecht, too, would have been summonable were Yuna to pray to him, but I doubt their bond would have been strong enough either. Now if Tidus were to gain the ability to summon Jecht, then it probably would've been powerful enough of a bond to be the Final Aeon - if you discount the fact he was already successfully summoned and defeated Sin.

This actually makes sense.

THANK YOU, JIRO

[dunk]

The "sacrifice" that a guardian endures to become the Final Aeon is to become a fayth. Fayths are able to impart their wisdom on whomever they choose. Anima is not Yuna's Final Aeon because their bond is not strong enough to draw out Anima's true power. Jecht, too, would have been summonable were Yuna to pray to him, but I doubt their bond would have been strong enough either. Now if Tidus were to gain the ability to summon Jecht, then it probably would've been powerful enough of a bond to be the Final Aeon - if you discount the fact he was already successfully summoned and defeated Sin.



I already said this Q.Q. Though i don't think tidius's bond with his dad was that strong either :P

Anyway one could speculate that the aeons of the temples are final aeons that previously failed too defeat sin.

If you consider that an option ( though theres no proof) anima makes even more sense.

Now lets say hypothetically seymour failed too defeat sin, instead of just skipping him. The outcome would of been the same and if you keep my speculation in mind, everything fits.

[Freya]

Yeah that was already said by like 5 of us xD Wth sam.

[Jinx]

It wasn't exactly explained well.

[Jiro]

It was explained well enough for me to understand :monster:

I think Tidus and Jecht had a better bond than they originally thought. Well, better than Tidus thought. Jecht was a jerk but he genuinely cared about Tidus and when he was being turned into a fayth his love seemed even stronger.

[Pete for President]

Also Tifa's Boobs, there is a simple reason for why Seymour's mom did that to him-
she's terrible.

. Just listen to the nonsense she spouts when you get Anima.

Seymour's Mother: And so I becae a fayth. But... Because I let him taste power, He began to thirst for more. He was not satisfied with my aeon. He wanted more. More power.

Or maybe you scarred him for life.

IIRC this was her goal: if Seymour brings the Calm he will be accepted by the people as a hero and no longer be scorned as a halfbreed. Both the Guado and the Humans would look up to him (even though he'd be dead). She'd sacrifice everything for that.

[blackmage_nuke]

Braska's pilgramage wouldve been a cakewalk since the fiends he faced on the way to Besaid wouldve become progressively weaker and weaker. By the time he got to Djose he could probably one hit kill any fiends.

[Jinx]

Braska's pilgramage wouldve been a cakewalk since the fiends he faced on the way to Besaid wouldve become progressively weaker and weaker. By the time he got to Djose he could probably one hit kill any fiends.

How do you reckon?

EDIT: oh wait, nevermind, I get it now :3

[Forsaken Lover]

IIRC this was her goal: if Seymour brings the Calm he will be accepted by the people as a hero and no longer be scorned as a halfbreed. Both the Guado and the Humans would look up to him (even though he'd be dead). She'd sacrifice everything for that.

I realize that was her goal.

And she is a terrible person because of it.

Just like Tidus, Seymour's Daddy Issues are really Mommy Issues.

[Jinx]

Just like Tidus, Seymour's Daddy Issues are really Mommy Issues.

Not exactly. His dad was pretty shit to him. But, his mom was a total b---. I'd say it was more 80% mum, 20% dad. SHE WOULDN'T EVEN LOOK AT HIM.

[Christmas]

The "sacrifice" that a guardian endures to become the Final Aeon is to become a fayth. Fayths are able to impart their wisdom on whomever they choose. Anima is not Yuna's Final Aeon because their bond is not strong enough to draw out Anima's true power. Jecht, too, would have been summonable were Yuna to pray to him, but I doubt their bond would have been strong enough either. Now if Tidus were to gain the ability to summon Jecht, then it probably would've been powerful enough of a bond to be the Final Aeon - if you discount the fact he was already successfully summoned and defeated Sin.


It was explained well enough for me to understand :monster:

I think Tidus and Jecht had a better bond than they originally thought. Well, better than Tidus thought. Jecht was a jerk but he genuinely cared about Tidus and when he was being turned into a fayth his love seemed even stronger.

Actually I always think the whole pilgramage is to build and strengthen the bond between the summoner and the guardians.As explained, stronger bond, stronger Final Aeon. The attainment of the Aeons are just secondary as the Final Aeon is what is really needed for Sin to be reborn in the end anyway. All part of Yevon's idea to continue the spiral of sorrow. :bigsmile:

Sorry if someone talked about this already, old woman too lazy to read. :monster:

[Jessweeee♪]

Take a look at Lord Zaeon in Zanarkand. His statue thingy looks just like all of the other Fayth Yuna prays to. Except his soul is gone from it. This is because Yunalesca summoned him to defeat Sin, then Yu-Yevon grabbed hold of him, and finally he was defeated by the next high summoner's final aeon. After Yuna & Co. do this to every one of the aeons she has summoned, all of the fayth statues she prayed to are empty, just as Lord Zaeon's was.

[Jinx]

Take a look at Lord Zaeon in Zanarkand. His statue thingy looks just like all of the other Fayth Yuna prays to. Except his soul is gone from it. This is because Yunalesca summoned him to defeat Sin, then Yu-Yevon grabbed hold of him, and finally he was defeated by the next high summoner's final aeon. After Yuna & Co. do this to every one of the aeons she has summoned, all of the fayth statues she prayed to are empty, just as Lord Zaeon's was.

Until X-2 ;D