Steam Big Picture Mode a.k.a. The Valve Console

[Bolivar]

Valve recently opened up its Big Picture Mode for all in open beta. If you didn't know, Big Picture Mode is an alternate interface meant to be plugged into your television and navigated with a controller. Many have called it the opening volley in Valve's battle to take over the console market.

If you want to check it out, you can opt in by clicking Steam, Settings, and looking for the section that says "Beta participation" on the Accounts tab.

As when discussing anything on the internet, I'm going to say I like it, but complain anyway. :bounce:

First, it's a little obviously ripping off the Xbox 360 interface and that's a problem for two reasons. One, it's shameless. They copied it right down to the little kerplunk noises everything makes. But more importantly, the 360 interface has long been criticized for its sluggishness. You only see a few panels at a time and scrolling through the rest is slow.

But the bigger issue is that right now, it's only an interface. Once you load up a game, you still have to change its resolution for it to look anything like it should on a TV. I doubt they'll ever get this worked in, at least retroactively. As the PSN has demonstrated, you need to get a lot of this stuff up in the first place, or you're never going to get it for the games you've already released. What's even more troubling is that if you want to view friend profiles (or anything in the community section, really) it actually opens up a browser and takes you to the steampowered website page to view it. That's a big no no, it should be in the interface and I hope they resolve this while still in beta.

Other than that, I just think it's ironic how we comment on the computerization of consoles, when the biggest gaming platform on PC is now getting consolized.

[escobert]

I saw a video of this. Really has no effect on me since I despise controllers :p

[Bolivar]

I can't even get one to work with it... I can't find where Steam lets you configure one!

[escobert]

I don't know why you'd want to unless you have madden or a racing game :P

Keyboard and mouse is far superior!

[Jowy]

gaben can have as much of my money as he wants

kb+m is awful for platformers. terraria would be my favourite game EVER if i could use a fucking controller.

[Bolivar]

This is slightly off-topic and I may be martyred for it, but... I've been trying to use a controller to play Black Ops PC for some time now...

The contemporary shooter requires you to crouch, prone, sprint, melee, jump, reload, switch weapons, use equipment, interact with objectives, activate killstreaks, throw lethal grenades, throw special grenades, aim down the sights, and shoot. In multiplayer, doing all of these things responsively becomes immensely important.

I've been playing CoD games on my laptop away from my PC for a while now, and I'm personally convinced it's not possible to map all of these functions to a keyboard to make them anywhere near as readily accessible as they are on a controller. This may be the most logic-defying thing I've ever said, but:

The FPS genre has evolved past the keyboard and is now at home on the controller.

I wholeheartedly agree, that sentence is a perfectly legitimate reason to sacrifice me right now on the altar. But I play a ton of shooters on both platforms and to be honest, it isn't anything new and not limited to games requiring a lot of actions. Unreal Tournament III launched with PS3/PC cross-platform play, but as the years went on, it became hard to find PS3-only lobbies. When I started playing on PC servers, against real players and not just bots, I found that I could not only hold my own, but coast to the top of the leaderboard at times.

[Jowy]

the pupil has to become the new master eventually, dude.

[Pike]

gaben can have as much of my money as he wants

this

Also! If an actual Steam console ever comes out then everyone else might as well just give up right now because GAME OVER

[escobert]

This is slightly off-topic and I may be martyred for it, but... I've been trying to use a controller to play Black Ops PC for some time now...

The contemporary shooter requires you to crouch, prone, sprint, melee, jump, reload, switch weapons, use equipment, interact with objectives, activate killstreaks, throw lethal grenades, throw special grenades, aim down the sights, and shoot. In multiplayer, doing all of these things responsively becomes immensely important.

I've been playing CoD games on my laptop away from my PC for a while now, and I'm personally convinced it's not possible to map all of these functions to a keyboard to make them anywhere near as readily accessible as they are on a controller. This may be the most logic-defying thing I've ever said, but:

The FPS genre has evolved past the keyboard and is now at home on the controller.

I wholeheartedly agree, that sentence is a perfectly legitimate reason to sacrifice me right now on the altar. But I play a ton of shooters on both platforms and to be honest, it isn't anything new and not limited to games requiring a lot of actions. Unreal Tournament III launched with PS3/PC cross-platform play, but as the years went on, it became hard to find PS3-only lobbies. When I started playing on PC servers, against real players and not just bots, I found that I could not only hold my own, but coast to the top of the leaderboard at times.

Any time I've seen a keyboard mouse go against a controller the kb+m win. Controllers are junk and CoD is ghey console crap anyways :p

[Slothy]

The contemporary shooter requires you to crouch, prone, sprint, melee, jump, reload, switch weapons, use equipment, interact with objectives, activate killstreaks, throw lethal grenades, throw special grenades, aim down the sights, and shoot. In multiplayer, doing all of these things responsively becomes immensely important.

Sounds like you needed a mouse with more buttons. :p I just ran through my old COD4 keymappings (yay muscle memory) and all of those functions were easily accessible to me without moving more than a single finger. And considering I played COD4 for quite a while on PS3 before getting it for the PC, I have to say that I always found the PC controls easier to use and faster from day one. You couldn't pay me to give up the speed and accuracy of a mouse for a controller, particularly in games like COD or CS where I find being quick on the draw matters a lot more than in some other games.

[edczxcvbnm]

Even if the keyboard + mouse is superior, I have never really liked it. I was playing FPS on the PC before Halo and the duel analog revolution on consoles. I just don't find it anywhere near as enjoyable. RTS on the other hand just shit all over a controller.

I will wait on big picture mode until it is actually released because most games I have for the PC, I can play on the TV. I am playing Borderlands 2 with a controller on my TV with Steam. Works great!

[Madame Adequate]

Both KBM and controllers can be perfectly good for playing videogames and as evidence UT 2K4 for KBM and TimeSplitters for controllers.

[Bolivar]

Yeah, RTS will never be viable for the traditional controller and there's just no way around that.

Vivi, I'm curious as to what your mappings are if you could post a screenshot. What I'm particularly talking about is knife. Knife is such a key mechanic when you turn the corner and there's unexpectedly someone right in front of you and you need to end it now. Default is V. Using WASD to move makes it very inconvenient and not the time-sensitive solution you need. I'm not sure something closer like Caps Lock would be as immediate as I would need, either. I suppose a mouse button for my thumb would do the trick.

But then we have special grenades. And anyway you slice it, I think controller wins. Since Black Ops brought back leaning in its campaign to apologize to the PC community, special grenades are mapped to a number. Equipment, killstreaks, and activatable attachments are as well. I'm an excellent typer, but hitting the numbers above the letters is just not something I can do from muscle memory. I have to look. Not to mention you have to take one finger off the WASD movement to hit it. Being able to move while aiming and holding a special grenade is a crucial tactic for me, and I just don't think PC can accomodate it well. Again, I'd like to see your mappings.

Bert, I know you're just talking from your experience, but from mine, again, I've been able to cruise to the top of the leaderboards in PC matches of Unreal Tournament III while gaming from my Dualshock on my PS3. This goes to Vivi's point as well. I think the speed and accuracy factor that a mouse brings over analog sticks is now nominal. Not non-existent, but certainly nominal. I will give a nod towards counter-strike though, as something you simply can't (or at least shouldn't) play on a console.

Anyway, I'm free this weekend if anybody wants to get some PC gaming in. It's time I shut up Vivi22 once and for all about Counter-Strike :kakapo:

[Slothy]

Vivi, I'm curious as to what your mappings are if you could post a screenshot. What I'm particularly talking about is knife. Knife is such a key mechanic when you turn the corner and there's unexpectedly someone right in front of you and you need to end it now. Default is V. Using WASD to move makes it very inconvenient and not the time-sensitive solution you need.

No screen shots since I haven't even had COD4 installed in god knows how long. But once again, muscle memory!

crouch - Ctrl
prone - Not actually sure since 99% of the time I didn't use it. Z maybe because I was used to it being there from my Day of Defeat Days. Maybe Q. V would make more sense though in retrospect since my thumb rests right below it on the space bar.
sprint - Shift obviously
melee - Mouse button 4 I think. I have two mouse buttons under my thumb and it's the back one. I use a Razer Deathadder if that helps clarify it
jump - Space obviously
reload - R
switch weapons - Mouse 5, it's forward of the melee button. Didn't need anything else since you only really switch between primary and secondary.
use equipment - Not even sure what you mean by this. If it's stuff like Night Vision or whatever I'd never use it in COD4
interact with objectives - At a guess I'd say E. It's always my use key.
activate killstreaks - Never had trouble using the number keys, but I'm used to switching weapons in games with more of them using number keys. If I cared enough I might map them to the ones above the WASD keys but I never felt the need.
throw lethal grenades - Middle Mouse button worked fine
throw special grenades - F. I'm used to using it for flashlights and stuff and it's one key away at all times. I never relied heavily on them anyway since I favoured frags or claymores depending on my loadout. But even if I did use them, I'd be fine with F. I played TFC long enough to be able to maneuver well with a finger off the movement keys.
aim down the sights - right mouse button
shoot - I'm sure I don't have to even answer this one.

That works well for me. Everything that needed to be in easy reach was, and I never had any issues. Everything was in easy reach and usually more quickly accessible than I found these things on a controller. Not that controllers weren't fine for COD4, but I wouldn't want to play against PC players with one.


Bert, I know you're just talking from your experience, but from mine, again, I've been able to cruise to the top of the leaderboards in PC matches of Unreal Tournament III while gaming from my Dualshock on my PS3. This goes to Vivi's point as well. I think the speed and accuracy factor that a mouse brings over analog sticks is now nominal. Not non-existent, but certainly nominal. I will give a nod towards counter-strike though, as something you simply can't (or at least shouldn't) play on a console.

I'd disagree, but again, I played months of COD4 on PS3 followed immediately by months on the PC. The players on PC were definitely a lot better on average, and I played better as well once I made the transition. One of the reasons I actually stopped playing was because it became so easy for me to dominate the PC leader boards that I got bored. I'm not sure how good an example Unreal Tournament 3 is anymore. I played a bit on the PS3 against people with KB+M and remember getting crushed, but the game was almost dead on arrival, especially for the PC crowd. I have no idea how good the players that stuck with it are or aren't.

Even still, I'll say this: a good player may be able to hold their own or do well against the average player if they're playing controller versus KB+M for the simple reason that playing an FPS well is more than aiming skill. You've got knowledge of the levels, strategy knowledge, positioning skills, etc. that all come into play, as well as the ability to read the battle happening now and determine the best way to respond to opponents actions. If you can do all of that well, you can put yourself into situations where the game is less about who has the better aim and more about who has the better position and is ready for the other guy. But in a straight up head to head fight, or even when someone gets the drop on you and you have fractions of a second to turn and react, not having a KB+M puts you at a disadvantage the other guy doesn't have. So it's not that you can't do well with a controller, particularly in some games more than others, it's just that you're basically playing with a bit of a handicap and have to do everything else that much better. And obviously, if the game places even more emphasis on getting the first shot, then a KB+M is even more important.


Anyway, I'm free this weekend if anybody wants to get some PC gaming in. It's time I shut up Vivi22 once and for all about Counter-Strike :kakapo:

I like Global Offensive. Come at me bro. :shifty:

But seriously, 1.6 is cool too. Even if the real CS players are still rocking 1.5 (in some parallel world where WON still exists and Steam never happened). :semicolonpee:

Also, I like the example of Turok 2 better for a controller recommendation than Timesplitters. Not because it was very fun, or plays well at all anymore, but because that game had the most responsive aiming of any console game I've ever played. If the analog sticks weren't fragile pieces of shit modern controllers might use ones that suck less.

[Bolivar]

We'd definitely play Global Offensive. No need to live in the past. I certainly have my qualms, but it's a good enough game to play rather than the older ones.

I still stand by my assertion - the difference is nominal. And when I mean equipment, I mean C4, Claymores, etc. In CoD4 and Black Ops they're their own slot, separate from grenades, so you need to map them too. I also still stand by my tactical grenades assertion, they're just really important to a playstyle.

Anyway, happy gaming.

[Slothy]

And when I mean equipment, I mean C4, Claymores, etc. In CoD4 and Black Ops they're their own slot, separate from grenades, so you need to map them too.

Yeah, number keys if I used them at all and I only ever bothered with Claymores since they were a set it and forget it thing. And since I would never be setting them in the middle of a firefight, I didn't need to get to them too quickly. At least not so much so that gaining fractions of a second over number keys made a difference.


I also still stand by my tactical grenades assertion, they're just really important to a playstyle.

Like I said, I just never really used them. I usually wouldn't have more than the default one flashbang or something except when I was leveling up and 3 was the most useful perk to use out of that grouping. I just really never needed them as I found myself quite capable of outplaying 90% of people without them (I probably use them more to finish people in last stand than anything else). Hell, I regularly played Team Deathmatch and would take out 2-3 guys at once quite easily if I was on my game. But one thing I noticed was that I played that (and most games really) far more aggressively than other players. I would often charge into rooms filled with enemies deliberately when most people were popping around corners taking pot shots, just so I could take out one or two, maybe get a grenade off, and leave them in such disarray that my team could pile in behind me and finish them off. There's nothing I love more than getting in my opponents face in an FPS, especially when it seems like a terrible idea. :D

[Bolivar]

I know what you mean and that's partially why Call of Duty 4 is actually my least favorite out of the modern ones. It's too easy to run around like a chicken with your head cut off, spraying headshots from the hip, proning, reloading, and doing it all over again. That gets you killed in the later games. You have to play smarter and that makes it much more rewarding when you get the super high customizable and controllable killstreaks. The first time I earned an AC-130 was a very special moment for me :cool:

But back on point, I think it's a very weak argument to say it doesn't matter that KB&M is more inconvenient than controller, because these are things that you personally don't use. I'm wondering if the reason why you don't use these things is because it's impractical for you to use equipment and tactical grenades in the heat of a firefight quickly and effectively, due to how it's mapped for PC. A cool tactic is to pull out C4, throw it through a window and remotely detonate it. It's incredibly effective because C4 has such a larger blast radius than a grenade. I could never imagine myself doing that on PC.

[Slothy]

I know what you mean and that's partially why Call of Duty 4 is actually my least favorite out of the modern ones. It's too easy to run around like a chicken with your head cut off, spraying headshots from the hip, proning, reloading, and doing it all over again.

Yeah, I do that in pretty much any FPS title, even the ones where people don't think it should work (they're usually wrong). My problem with it in COD4 wasn't so much that it was possible but that I was just so much better at it then everyone else. I'd play team deathmatch on shipment quite a bit and end up with anywhere from 3-5:1 K/D ratios. It was a little absurd by the time I gave the game up. I'm not really sure if that was a fault of the game though. I used to do similar things playing CS and was pretty effective with it. Hell, I even assault bases as a Sniper in TF2, just like I used to in TFC, and I do pretty well. I think most people just aren't used to that style of play as certain classes or in certain games. It's something that probably shouldn't work so well, but because I'm pretty good at reading a fight and getting the drop on people, I make it work somehow.


But back on point, I think it's a very weak argument to say it doesn't matter that KB&M is more inconvenient than controller, because these are things that you personally don't use. I'm wondering if the reason why you don't use these things is because it's impractical for you to use equipment and tactical grenades in the heat of a firefight quickly and effectively, due to how it's mapped for PC.

I never made that argument. I didn't use those things because I found them next to useless for my play style. 9 rounds out of 10 they did nothing for me that a frag grenade or simply outmaneuvering enemies didn't do faster and just as effectively. It had nothing to do with where they were mapped since there were no shortage of keys right under my finger tips to map them too if need be. There also was no need because I never found myself stumbling over the keyboard to do anything. Things like C4 and going prone simply did not fit in with my play style at all, hence I never used them. And special grenades I always found less useful than frags because I wanted kills with them, not to rely on blinding someone or stunning someone when most people are used to dealing with both if they see them thrown.

It has absolutely nothing to do with things being more cumbersome on a KB+M than a controller, since I will gladly state that I've never played an FPS on a KB+M that was more cumbersome than a controller. Mapping things to L3 or R3 is annoying, using the Dpad for anything is annoying, and aiming with a control stick is annoying. I think I'd honestly rather give up playing FPS titles than live in a world where KB+M wasn't an option. It really just works far better for me as I have more commands right there under my finger tips, and I'm used to using them all. Hell, I play games like Starcraft with some degree of competence, so having to utilize a keyboard to its fullest in an FPS doesn't even start to phase me. I might as well have been born with a Keyboard and Mouse in hand given how comfortable I am with it.

[Shattered Dreamer]

I have been saying this for a while now whenever Steam do something they do it a lot better than most companies in the video game industry. Take Portal 2's cross platform multiplayer. My housemate is a PC gaming purist and even though he does play console games he prefers mouse & keyboard over a controller. I on the otherhand would be the opposite. So when we played through the Portal 2 co-op campaign it was great that we could have the best of both worlds. I honestly don't understand why 3rd party developers don't push to make this a standard feature. Can you imagine if you all could play the COD series & play against PS3, 360 & PC users at the same time?

However, even though I think Steam can pull this off let them not forget about the cautionary tale known as Onlive.

[Bolivar]

I agree, Dreamer, and I really think they have what it takes to make this awesome, but from my initial impressions, it has a long way to go at this point in the beta. But yeah, pray for the console manufacturers if they ship a box with this because it'll be a serious threat to the Big 3.

Vivi, I think we've reached an impasse. Your playstyle aside, you still haven't denied that the 14 functions I listed are much easier to do with your thumb, index finger, and middle finger already on the buttons as opposed to having to resort to awkward pinky strokes, taking your fingers off of the movement keys, or worse, having to look away from the action to make sure you're hitting the right number key. You may not think analog sticks are only nominally less quick and efficient as mouse aiming, but I've seen it myself in UTIII's cross-platform multiplayer.

[Slothy]

Vivi, I think we've reached an impasse. Your playstyle aside, you still haven't denied that the 14 functions I listed are much easier to do with your thumb, index finger, and middle finger already on the buttons as opposed to having to resort to awkward pinky strokes, taking your fingers off of the movement keys, or worse, having to look away from the action to make sure you're hitting the right number key.

I'm pretty sure by saying that I have absolutely no trouble reaching them that is almost certainly what I'm implying. If you want me to be a bit more up front about it then fine: controlling an FPS title with multiple buttons is at least as easy with a keyboard and a decent mouse as with a controller for someone comfortable with both. I'd argue that it is easier with on the PC though, in no small part because better control over aiming makes pretty much all of those functions more useful.


You may not think analog sticks are only nominally less quick and efficient as mouse aiming, but I've seen it myself in UTIII's cross-platform multiplayer.

That a mouse is faster and more accurate than an analog stick in the hands of someone who's used to either isn't really arguable. It's the sort of thing you can measure objectively and I would be very surprised if the mouse didn't win on those criteria. Like I said, other factors come into play when playing a game which can level the playing field, but a mouse is objectively faster and more accurate than an analog stick.