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Jinx
10-10-2012, 02:31 PM
Despite having never played FFI-FFIII, I've heard of them.

I honestly didn't know there was in FFV until a few years ago.


Is part of the reason this game isn't well received from that fact that it's not very well known? Or just because it's sandwiched between FFIV and FFVI, which are considered two of the best entries of the series?

Gamblet
10-10-2012, 02:44 PM
What a stupid question. Every game is important to the series, but I would have to say FF II, the leveling system of that game was dropped immediately and was never seen again.

Tsuris
10-10-2012, 02:46 PM
lets not forget the off shoots that are un-numbered, legend, mystic quest, adventure?

Night Fury
10-10-2012, 02:58 PM
No Tifa's Boobs.
You.

Edge7
10-10-2012, 03:26 PM
I would argue that although it's the last FF to use the job system explicitly (not counting spinoffs), I would argue that it has one of the better battle systems in the series, being a clear step up from FFIV, where customization wasn't prevalent anywhere. Story wise, it's okay, not my favorite in the series (a step back from IV imo), but still pretty good. I guess it's so often overlooked because it never hit American shores until Anthology.

Also, if it means anything, Faris, along with Terra, are Amano's favorite characters to draw.

Jinx
10-10-2012, 03:37 PM
What a stupid question. Every game is important to the series, but I would have to say FF II, the leveling system of that game was dropped immediately and was never seen again.

Learn to read, please.

I didn't say it wasn't important, just proposing the idea it's least important.

Axem Titanium
10-10-2012, 04:27 PM
Most of the lack of interest in this game stems from the fact that it wasn't released outside Japan for the longest time. FFIV ---> FFII and FFVI ---> FFIII outside Japan but FFV never made it out until PS1 era. Thus, it lacks the nostalgia factor that its siblings did, even though I find its job system and combat fantastic. The story was a little trite but the same could be said of all previous FFs.

Case in point, I found a bootleg cart of this game at a flea market in China way back in early 1998, labeled simply as "Final Fantasy". I thought I had found some secret FF game that no one had ever played, and I was probably right, considering the PS1 version hadn't come out yet in the West. It didn't end up beating it until I bought the GBA game though because said cart was in Japanese.

Jowy
10-10-2012, 05:02 PM
play it and find out. i had a blast from start to finish.

Battle on the Big Bridge is also AWESOME and one of the best parts of the game.

Hollycat
10-10-2012, 05:24 PM
Five is one of the most important games in the series, it featured job system perfection. I'm sure if Squaresoft was still around they would have done something with it. It was also the basis for the materia system.

Gamblet
10-10-2012, 05:25 PM
What a stupid question. Every game is important to the series, but I would have to say FF II, the leveling system of that game was dropped immediately and was never seen again.

Learn to read, please.

I didn't say it wasn't important, just proposing the idea it's least important.

Is this thread about discussing FFV? Or I misunderstood again? :mad:

Lonely Paper Star
10-10-2012, 05:27 PM
I've never played this game, but from what I hear from friends who are fans of it, it's very underrated. o_o

VeloZer0
10-10-2012, 05:29 PM
Actualy I think you can make a great case for being least important. This isn't a comentary on the quality of the game itself, but on the legacy it left for the franchise. The idea of changeable job classes was dropped for the rest of the series, and the idea that every character had a class was much less prominent. The crystals/chosen warriors theme was dropped. I think all the work it did with world map design was monumental but those ideas only persisted for one more entry.

In fact other than it being the most direct job system connection to Tactics I don't really see a legacy for it.

Loony BoB
10-10-2012, 05:58 PM
Unfortunately I can't say much about "firsts" because I haven't played all the way through FFIII and FFIV. However, I think FFV created many jobs that are used by multiple games throughout the world now including Final Fantasy XI and XIV, and again I may be wrong but didn't it (perhaps unintentionally) create the leveling system used by pretty much every MMO out there today?

Oh well. While I can't say much about importance, I can say that FFV is probably the most underrated Final Fantasy game I've played. It is incredibly fun and while the system it used may not have been repeated in the numbered series (MMO's aside), that doesn't mean I don't really wish it had been. It's a joy to play and it allows for so much variation. It's one of the very few Final Fantasy games I've played again after completing, alongside FFVII and FFVIII.

WildRaubtier
10-10-2012, 06:13 PM
Gilgamesh.

Dude causes 5 to have a greater legacy in the series than 6.

Gamblet
10-10-2012, 06:30 PM
Gilgamesh.

Dude causes 5 to have a greater legacy in the series than 6.

Hell yes!

Citizen Bleys
10-10-2012, 07:27 PM
The least "important" is FF2j; Practically nothing about it made it into subsequent games.
It also sucked by FF standards.

FF5 rocks.

Wolf Kanno
10-10-2012, 08:36 PM
What a stupid question. Every game is important to the series, but I would have to say FF II, the leveling system of that game was dropped immediately and was never seen again.

Untrue, it lives on in the early Romancing Saga games (FF Legends) and one could argue that FFXIV's leveling system is descended from it, not to mention FFXI borrowed aspects of it for Weapon leveling. So it still lives on in the series. Even the Esper and the Junction systems lived on as leveling systems in other games (BoFIII-IV and Wild ARMS 3).


The least "important" is FF2j; Practically nothing about it made it into subsequent games.
It also sucked by FF standards.

FF5 rocks.

Well... except Ultima, Mysidia, Dragoons, Dark Knights, Chocobos, Bombs, Malboro, Behemoths, Blood Swords, Leviathan, and that FFXII actually emulates a good chunk of it's plot. ;) In terms of Impact, FFII is probably the most underrated because it's hated.


*************************************************************************************
As for FFV's legacy in the franchise, it's largely gameplay. The modern ATB system appreciated by fans of FFVI-IX was perfected in FFV, because the original FFIV's version didn't have things like the ATB Bar, and magic and skills had casting times, whereas FFV just made everything insta-cast and introduced the ATB bar so you could know what order turns would appear in. It pretty much streamlined the series core battle system.

The Job class may have only appeared in spin-offs, sequels and the MMO titles, but if you really take a careful look at the Esper/Relic system of VI, Materia System from VII, and Junction from FFVIII, as well as Sphere Grid and the License Board, you'll notice they are all basically variations of the Job System that all allow the player to create the type of job roles they want in the game. Basically FF's been trying to create something to surpass the Job System but most of them are just variations of it where it's broken down into individual skills and spells as opposed to strict statistical classes. It's also the most balanced system compared to it's future variations.

Hell, one of the reason's VI's cast is so huge is because most of the cast represent a class introduced in FFV. There is also the persistence of the Mime, Samurai, and Blue Mage classes that pretty much became standard abilities/classes in later installments.

Gamblet
10-10-2012, 11:27 PM
What a stupid question. Every game is important to the series, but I would have to say FF II, the leveling system of that game was dropped immediately and was never seen again.

Untrue, it lives on in the early Romancing Saga games (FF Legends) and one could argue that FFXIV's leveling system is descended from it, not to mention FFXI borrowed aspects of it for Weapon leveling. So it still lives on in the series. Even the Esper and the Junction systems lived on as leveling systems in other games (BoFIII-IV and Wild ARMS 3).



Hmm, never played those games. But since I have played only FFs I-IX, my statement is half-true. :D

Formalhaut
10-10-2012, 11:28 PM
Um, it practically popularised the Chocobo, as well starting the whole "De Chocobo" song theme, starting with Mambo De Chocobo.

And yes, Gilgamesh began here. Battle on the Big Bridge anyone?

Nightsintodreams
10-11-2012, 12:36 AM
Um, it practically popularised the Chocobo, as well starting the whole "De Chocobo" song theme, starting with Mambo De Chocobo.

And yes, Gilgamesh began here. Battle on the Big Bridge anyone?

All of this.

Plus, the Job system is pretty freaking awesome...I mean seriously! I ended up subbing DNC quite a bit and it worked out wonderfully. The job system is what got me seriously hooked on playing it.

The storyline though...yeah, not so much.

Weimar Pluto Knight VII
10-11-2012, 01:57 AM
Yea the job system is one of the more famous battle systems, even though it started in FF3. You can't really say "least important" about any of them. You have to explain what you mean, and it sounds like you mean least known/played. That probably goes to II or III, at least outside of Japan. III especially since it didn't come out until the DS and the only version before that was NES. Inside Japan I'm not sure but it wouldn't be FF3 b/c it's a favorite over there.

Hollycat
10-11-2012, 03:52 AM
If I had to choose a least important game to the development of the series through SS, I'd say 3.
1 was the beginning
2 provided many constant themes, weapons, magics, and enemies, as well as the first true story in ff.
4 was the beginning of ATB, more advanced stories, character deaths (sort of) and the "temporary" party member.
5 featured battle perfection and a funny story. The battle system of 5 was the inspiration for the battle system in 7, with the jobs being replaced with materia for literally infinite jobs. Also Gilgamesh
6 the first switchable party system, the most complex and lore filled ff at that point. Brought back semi-static equipment. Ultros. First use of an equipable summon system. Inspired by 5, the battle system was a small step in the evolution to 7.
7 gameplay and story pacing perfection. Introduced Zack Fair. CGI. 3D.
8 back to the 6 equipment system. First non cartoony looking game. First (and only till KH use of item fusion) Deep story, lots of lore. Also it had gunblades.
9 Funny and playful, the learning system was halfway between 7 and 6. Best visuals so far. more sidequests, more after game areas, first time races mixed in ff.
10 huge visual leap. Terrible mini-games. First linear ff. Awesome summons. First truly annoying protagonist in FF. Led to the dead end evolution that is Vaan.

WildRaubtier
10-11-2012, 06:14 AM
You'd discount the origin of the switchable job system? 3's contributions to the series are far more important than anything offered by 6, which was basically 4 with switchable characters. The concept of equipable summons lasted another two iterations before being scrapped (and was even introduced in 3, if you're counting the fact that all magic could be equipped and then unequipped).

If you want to find the least important, you're definitely looking at 6.

Hollycat
10-11-2012, 06:17 AM
You'd discount the origin of the switchable job system? 3's contributions to the series are far more important than anything offered by 6, which was basically 4 with switchable characters. The concept of equipable summons lasted another two iterations before being scrapped (and was even introduced in 3, if you're counting the fact that all magic could be equipped and then unequipped).

If you want to find the least important, you're definitely looking at 6.

Honestly, I was struggling to think of things for 6. But I never finished 3 so that really wasn't fair.

VeloZer0
10-11-2012, 07:43 AM
Actually in terms of mechanics FF6 didn't do anything revolutionary but I think it was a major turning point in the series. Up until then the games had relied upon a fairly standard high fantasy kings and castles base for their worlds. FF6 still had it's toe in that pool, but you can see a clear divide in world design (characters/lore/etc...) from pre-FF6 to post-FF6.

WildRaubtier
10-11-2012, 07:58 AM
A toe in the pool? The only difference between 1 and 6's high fantasy settings is that 6 is human[-esper hybrid]s only.

maybee
10-11-2012, 12:11 PM
FF5 awesome people just don't like it because Bartz doesn't wield a big long sword and ExDeath doesn't have a Latin chorus song whenever he appears so it "suxs "

Cloudane
10-11-2012, 12:24 PM
Never played this one. Least important? Though the responses to the thread seem to suggest otherwise.

I've heard how it's the pinnacle of the Job System. Is that a good battle system to have then? An example of a system I don't like is the "use it or lose it" skill system of FF2j, is this better?

This is the one with the crystals right? Well they all had them of course, especially FF1 as "orbs", but I recall this being known as "the crystal one".

VeloZer0
10-11-2012, 01:44 PM
To be clear least important =/= worst of the series.


A toe in the pool? The only difference between 1 and 6's high fantasy settings is that 6 is human[-esper hybrid]s only.
I disagree. In FF6 we see the move away from a stereotypical fantasy setting into something more steam punk/industrial revolution. It didn't go all the way, but it's successor FF7 did. After that aside from the FF9 throwback the stereotypical 'medieval' setting was no longer a FF mainstay.

Jinx
10-11-2012, 01:52 PM
To be clear least important =/= worst of the series.

Bolivar
10-17-2012, 11:35 PM
To be clear least important =/= worst of the series.



Double quoted for importance.

I don't think FFV is the least important in the series. As Hironobu Sakaguchi put it, V and VI were the experiments that lead up to FFVII.

My vote would go to either FFIII or FFIX. Neither of them are important to understanding how the series evolved. FFIII brought jobs back to make them a staple of the series, but not entirely since there were White Wizards and Thieves and Dragoon characters in FFII. FFIX also because not as many people played it as the other games, and it didn't contribute anything going into the next generation. It took all the advances from FFVII and FFVIII and made a game in that style with a more traditional fantasy setting and a ton of references. It was damn good and arguably the best title in the series, but it's not important.

FFII was arguably the most important game in the series. It established that every game was going to be completely different.

Wolf Kanno
10-18-2012, 12:30 AM
^I can agree with IX but I felt FFIII really established the Job System as well as the skills of the jobs for future installments. Not to mention it introduced summoners which are a core element of later installments. I feel that at least gives it some props above IX in terms of impact on the series.

Bolivar
10-18-2012, 02:40 AM
I would agree, since it also introduced abilities outside of Fight, Magic, Item. So I would say FFIX is the least important.

I'm actually really terrified that FFXII will become the least important game in the series. It was arguably a bigger shift in RPGs than FFX was, yet it seems Square has completely forgotten it exists or that games in that style might actually be successful in an HD, WRPG-dominated console generation.

Weimar Pluto Knight VII
10-18-2012, 03:08 AM
yea FF9 maybe since it was more of a tribute but it is considered one of the best.

Wolf Kanno
10-18-2012, 04:09 AM
I'm actually really terrified that FFXII will become the least important game in the series. It was arguably a bigger shift in RPGs than FFX was, yet it seems Square has completely forgotten it exists or that games in that style might actually be successful in an HD, WRPG-dominated console generation.

I would have felt the same way but I really feel like Xenoblade is a bit of XII's successor so it's nice to know the game has had some impact on the genre. Who knows, maybe they'll put Ito in charge of FFXV and he'll use the Ivalice team to help him. ;)

WildRaubtier
10-18-2012, 04:58 AM
FFIII brought jobs back to make them a staple of the series, but not entirely since there were White Wizards and Thieves and Dragoon characters in FFII.
This kind of misses the point - Job/Classes are a staple of RPGs in general. What 3 did was introduce a system of interchangeability between those classes for each individual character. Which happened to be one of the most important features of final fantasy as a whole, since it shows up in pretty much every FF since 7, even if only as a micromanagement of individual abilities.

Bolivar
10-18-2012, 05:36 AM
I'm actually really terrified that FFXII will become the least important game in the series. It was arguably a bigger shift in RPGs than FFX was, yet it seems Square has completely forgotten it exists or that games in that style might actually be successful in an HD, WRPG-dominated console generation.

I would have felt the same way but I really feel like Xenoblade is a bit of XII's successor so it's nice to know the game has had some impact on the genre. Who knows, maybe they'll put Ito in charge of FFXV and he'll use the Ivalice team to help him. ;)

White Knight Chronicles as well, which had an awesome customization and combat system, a cool world to explore as well as really fun multiplayer gameplay. Just too bad it sucked as an RPG.


This kind of misses the point - Job/Classes are a staple of RPGs in general. What 3 did was introduce a system of interchangeability between those classes for each individual character. Which happened to be one of the most important features of final fantasy as a whole, since it shows up in pretty much every FF since 7, even if only as a micromanagement of individual abilities.

If you want to count micromanagement of individual abilities, then FFII did that before III. But I can get on board that FFIII introduced a happy medium - you weren't confined to one job for the whole game, but you didn't have to worry about each individual piece of equipment and spell. These things could be grouped together, along with abilities, which was another thing FFIII introduced.

WildRaubtier
10-18-2012, 06:06 AM
Well, 2 only really let you choose what magic you wanted to learn. Compare to, say, 7, where you could choose what you wanted your character to do at other times, such as cover, counter attack, increase the encounter rate, etc.

I wouldn't have counted 9 or 10 as doing that but I just now remembered that 9 had its magic stones and 10 had weapon/armour abilities.

Wolf Kanno
10-18-2012, 06:32 AM
I'm actually really terrified that FFXII will become the least important game in the series. It was arguably a bigger shift in RPGs than FFX was, yet it seems Square has completely forgotten it exists or that games in that style might actually be successful in an HD, WRPG-dominated console generation.

I would have felt the same way but I really feel like Xenoblade is a bit of XII's successor so it's nice to know the game has had some impact on the genre. Who knows, maybe they'll put Ito in charge of FFXV and he'll use the Ivalice team to help him. ;)

White Knight Chronicles as well, which had an awesome customization and combat system, a cool world to explore as well as really fun multiplayer gameplay. Just too bad it sucked as an RPG.

Yeah, I'll second that. I still need to finish that game too...

Bolivar
10-19-2012, 03:27 AM
Well, 2 only really let you choose what magic you wanted to learn. Compare to, say, 7, where you could choose what you wanted your character to do at other times, such as cover, counter attack, increase the encounter rate, etc.


Well, FFII was actually pretty deep for its time because not only could you choose to have your characters learn any spell (and using those spells would then increase your base stats as well as your proficiency in that magic type), but also any piece of armor or weapon type or how you arrange those weapons. For example, you could have your character wield a sword and shield, and they'll become more proficient at both sword and shield, but you could alternatively equip them with a sword only, and they'll wield that weapon two-handed. Your character will deal more damage than normal at the cost of defense and then become more proficient at wielding weapons two-handed, in addition to better with the sword class. There weren't the abilities we mentioned III added or support skills like you mentioned in VII, but it really let you craft every part of your character from what they wore to what they did and even their statistics.

Roogle
10-19-2012, 05:47 AM
It is my opinion that Final Fantasy V is not well-received in the West because it was never released originally.

There were plans to bring it over as a game called Final Fantasy Extreme or something like that, but it never panned out. Could the game have been much more popular if it had been released here, I wonder?

Mirage
10-19-2012, 06:08 AM
Of the numbered ones? FF2.

FF5 wasn't heard much of because it never saw a real release until that anthology thing for the PS1, and even there it was just part of a compilation, so you wouldn't see "Final fantasy V" on some game cover in stores, either.

It is actually a very good game. You should try it.