What do YOU think this game's about?

[Edge7]

First of all, I want to state, that I know Square Enix has gone on official record (in the making of Advent Children) that the theme of Final Fantasy VII is life. However, to me it was always more about Cloud's personal struggle: being able to become a stronger person, to the point you surpass your idols and ultimately the standards you set for yourself (my analysis of this viewpoint I'll probably delve into in a future post). On the other side of the coin, I always saw the game more as a conflict between Science and Nature/Spirituality, how they coincide and how they clash.

So guys, what I'm asking is, how do you view this game? Did it teach you anything, or tell you to think about anything?

[Axem Titanium]

I would say FFVII is about dreams (as in life goals, not the images you see in your sleep). All of the characters are the downtrodden in society who band together to be a part of something bigger than themselves. Barret lost his job at Corel and became a terrorist. Yuffie's trying to raise money for her backwards nation. Reeve is the butt monkey of Shinra. Tifa seems to be doing alright as the hostess of a bar, but she's still poor like the rest of Midgar slums. Cid was going to be the first man in space. And poor Cloud thinks he "made it" as a SOLDIER 1st Class, but he really hasn't. Who are these nobodies kidding when they set out to save the world? They all had unfulfilled dreams.

[Formalhaut]

If I were to look at VII from a Marxist perspective (I do sociology you see) then I would say that it is the overthrowing of the capitalist Shinra company from it's riches. At least, that is what you feel during the first half of the game. I do agree with Axem, the theme of dreams is a major current running throughout the game.

[Cloudane]

Have to agree with Cloud's personal journey, it's that which inspired me to take his name for my online persona (combined with Zidane just 'cause) for the next 13+ years. Watching someone go from not really giving a fish about anyone (like how I was at the time), to caring, to going through an identity crisis, to coming out of the other end of it with a renewed strength and after acknowledging the help of his friends, to helping to save the world. I don't know, it's difficult to put a finger on a particular aspect but I guess a combination of strength/will and emotions.

It's also about saving the world from a nutcase and a crazy company of course, when all's said and done.

[Bolivar]

Oh man, I was in undergrad and got into it with Forsaken Lover and someone who didn't stay all that long about whether or not this game had Marxist themes... One of the things I pointed out was how Jesse said that the Midgar Sector slums used to have village names, but now they only have numbers. I thought that went along the lines of Marx's alienation of labor... about how capitalism gets rid of some of the things that make up your identity...

So yeah, good to have you Formalhaut :beer:

Edge7, I think you hit the nail on the head that no matter what Square says years later, FFVII doesn't have just one theme. Like any other great work, there's a lot of things at work here.

The game obviously starts off with a pretty hardcore economics theme about how the wealthy exploit the poor. I had never seen anything like the city of Midgar before, where the rich literally live on top of the wealthy, to the point that they even deny them the sun. The characters wonder why more people don't just move on top to the plate and Cloud remarks that life is like this train, you can only go where the rails take you. That's an incredibly deep commentary for RPG protagonists at the time and I think one of the reason the developers consider itself a leap from what came before. I can't recall the last time an RPG protagonist used a metaphor to make social commentary. The train cutscene that followed highlighted what a powerful work this was.

Then the game obviously moves into this revenge story. Cloud wants revenge on Sephiroth for the collateral damage that happened along the way of Sephiroth's quest for revenge against Shinra. I think the game tries to show how going on a path of revenge removes all will, rationality, and control from a person, which culminates in, and is also embodied by, the Jenova Reunion Theory. Cloud literally follows in the path of Sephiroth but he's really doing it against his will as 'The Voice,' which is either Jenova or Sephiroth, is urging him on all the while questioning his identity.

And that's what the heart of the story might be - identity. I think the the FFVII team actually got a lot from the Xenogears script. Soraya Saga and Tetsuya Takahashi originally submitted (http://www.siliconera.com/2010/06/11/soraya-saga-on-xenogears-and-xenosaga/) the script that would become Xenogears as the script for Final Fantasy VII. The bosses made it a different project, because it was too dark for Final Fantasy, but there's a lot of similarities and I think Kitase, Nojima, Sakaguchi, and Nomura took a lot from that original script. Both protagonists have an identity crisis in the middle of the game. It turns out that they were completely unaware of major parts of their life that took place before the beginning of the game. Both of them have their doubts about what to do going forward. Whereas Fei had a literal "Deus Ex Machina" put him back on the right path, I really like how FFVII worked through it - with Tifa helping Cloud look at the key events of the past in order to put the pieces together and know what they need to do moving forward. Cloud's subconscience was a really awesome RPG sequence.

I think there's also commentary on the quest for power. Sephiroth is trying to acquire the entire energy of a planet for himself, but he pretty much died for it. Sephiroth really is kinda dead for the entirety of the game. He only exists as a kind of consciousness existing in the lifestream and the minds of the CLONES.

But all throughout the game we have the theme of nature and technology being at odds with eachother. There are weird exceptions like Barret's arm and the Cosmo Canyon. I think it's really interesting that in the next game nature and technology lived in harmony with eachother with really organic structures and natural shapes to the inventions.
:)
Haha, sot hat's a lot, I'll try to think of any other themes...

[Edge7]

Damn Bolivar, you covered the Marxist ideas I wanted to touch (I'm taking my first Soc. class, and I wanted to try to apply a little of what I learned).

[Bolivar]

Haha, well you should still take a stab at putting it into your own words. And again, I'm glad that this dawned on you guys as well and I'm not completely crazy :kakapo:

I was in undergrad when I first joined this forum. In addition to Sociology I had some really good literature classes that helped me think critically about works and identify their themes. FFVII stood out as one of those games that had a lot going on with it.

[silentenigma]

I have an idea similar to yours, Edge.

To me, FFVII is about the widespread deterioration of spirituality and natural harmony, as a consequence of humanity's recent preoccupations with industrialism, corporatism, and consumerism; and about rediscovering, albeit with considerable suffering or struggle, one's spiritual/natural identity in such a world. Though there are a number of powerful sub-themes, they all seem to play into this main one...conveyed through quite a psychedelic experience, in my opinion.

[Formalhaut]

Haha, well you should still take a stab at putting it into your own words. And again, I'm glad that this dawned on you guys as well and I'm not completely crazy :kakapo:

I was in undergrad when I first joined this forum. In addition to Sociology I had some really good literature classes that helped me think critically about works and identify their themes. FFVII stood out as one of those games that had a lot going on with it.

Your essay was both deep and interesting. I am forever in your shadow! If I'm being totally honest, I'm still only on A2 Sociology!

[Edge7]

I also think the "Iron Cage of the last Man" describes the majority of society as well (will elaborate later, in a rush, just wanted to jot that down)

[DrAssenov]

I realize this is an old thread, but since it was still on the first page, I thought I'd take a crack at it. Plus, the replies so far have been very interesting. I want to expand on what I think is one of the most influential theme of this awesome game.

Some definitions:

Capitalism: a free-market economy ruled by supply and demand

Marxism/Communism: all means of production owned by the state in the name of "everyone" - AKA government monopoly

Fascism: Appearance of private corporations, the success of each dictated by the state, aka "crony capitalism"

There is a difference.

In capitalism, the customer decides which businesses will profit and fall by demand for each businesses' goods. Businesses will flourish and fall and evolve to maintain their competitiveness. If your product isn't wanted anymore, you either go out of business or make something else. You are rewarded by how valuable your product is to society.

In communism, the state decides for the customer. If you've got a problem, you're going to have to fight the state for it. And you're probably not going to win. You don't get to shop around for the best product because it has already been chosen for you. Those supplying the goods are rewarded, and the state decides who those suppliers are, no matter how crappy their product may be.

I know most people in this thread agree that Shinra is showing the "evils" of capitalism, but they are actually showing the evils of corporate greed combined with powers of the state (aka fascism.) This "electric power company" has the right to tax, create, and enforce laws with military might. By definition, that creates a monopoly. The customers are not given a choice in the matter. Sure, there's only one mako supplier and you can choose to have it or not, but we've seen what would happen if you refuse to become paying customers (e.g. Corel and Wutai.) Shinra might have started out as a private electric company, but by the time FFVII starts, they've already incorporated the city planners, managers, mayor, etc, into their own building, and gained a powerful militaristic influence. They are the military, actually.
This is more of an indication of a state-like institution than a private business that respects free market rules.

Both Marxism and Fascism both start out as government-run markets that appear to benefit the ruled, but it eventually turns into a feudal system where the poor are taxed heavily, and the rich (who are in collusions with the government) get richer. This is shown by the upper-plate and lower-plate discrepancies in the quality of living in Midgar. If that electric company didn't tax the hell out of the people below the plate, especially after that mako reactor bombing, then maybe they could actually have more savings and start their own businesses. But, sadly, Midgar was constructed to be what it is, and the people can either play into the system, or move out, maybe. Idk whats up with those walls outside of Midgar.

Now this doesn't mean that corporate, capitalistic America is purely a free market. Not a chance. There's tons of collusion with the government to make laws that protect their butts, but I am not going there today, not in this thread. That's way too depressing.

Just wanted to make this clear. I certainly hope a riot doesn't break out here.

[Edge7]

First of all DrAssenov, I don't think I've ever given you a proper welcome. So, welcome!

Secondly, I have no qualms with reviving this thread; I had a point I personally wanted to add (just forgot about it until this popped up in my notifications), I just need to wait for a time I don't have company over to add it, probably later tonight.

[maybee]

Final Fantasy 9 is really more about life and death than FF 7 Squarey Enix. :-/

Yeah it's more about Cloud's personal struggle and dealing with the pain of loosing others, wanting to become a stronger person, depression, love, crushing on somebody, feeling like your worthless, feeling like everybody is better than you, having a role model, having and loosing a best friend and more.

It's about Cloud and his experience and his struggles.

[Dr. rydrum2112]

If I had to summarize theme- I think intellectually it is a tale using the Gaia hypothesis and maybe a sprinkling of the idea behind the naturalistic fallacy tied to wonderful a coming-of-age/self-identification story.

[Jiro]

I think you'll find there are quite a lot of layers and trying to identify one central thread will probably lead you astray.