What is JUST me or was the main party stupid?

[Red Mage Coffman]

How do I begin? I don't wanna piss of FF8 fans for starters. Do I like FF8? Yeah, to some extent. My first time playing it, I didn't put it down for a while. I enjoyed Triple Triad, (Again, to some extent) some battles were heated and intense, and I thought the idea of GF's were pretty cool. Just wish you could skip the damn Summoning sequences. So annoying, then again 7 had the same problem. *cough, cough* Nights of the Round *cough, cough* So, no offense is meant by this. This is my personal opinion. Now, lets start with Squall. Typical. Emo, loner guy who doesn't enjoy having a social life. Well, that's just great. Our main character is a douche bag, piss ant, who hates everybody, it seems like. I just didn't like him. He was mean, he was anti-social, and he wasn't likeable, if you ask me. Next up is Zell, the ADHD, "fresh", extreme guy who never really contributed much to anything besides breaking out of prison. Zell was just another annoying character. He was like Steiner in FF9 and Hope in FF13. Characters, whose SOLE purpose, I swear, was to annoy the hell out of you, the player, and make the story as stupid as possible. Well, to be fair these characters usually improve along the way of the story, but not Zell. Hell no. From the moment that smiling fuck flipped my way, he remained the same old annoying Zell. Then there is Selphie. Who I love. So back the fuck up son. Selphie is the BOMB. Now, Quistis. She didn't really get on my nerves that much. She had some REALLY stupid moments in the game, but everyone did at some point, so never mind. I only really hated her when she spoon fed me tutorials. Time to go on to my most hated character in this entire game. Irvine Kinneas. Honestly, he didn't piss me of at first. He was an okay character, and I didn't hate him as much as I hated Zell. So, all was well, right? WRONG. Irvine joins the party to aid the assassination of the sorcerress, hell he IS the assassin. The plan is to trap the sorcerress in a tunnel, and snipe her as quick as possible. This, to me, is where the game began getting REALLY stupid. But, I'm not dogging on the story yet, we'll save that for another rant. Aside from Rinoa being a retard, and Quistis endangering the mission, everything is going smoothly. When the time finally comes, the gates are dropped, the gun is aimed, and its now or never. So... Why the fuck is Irvine NOT SHOOTING? I'll tell you why, he is a complete and utter pussy! He doesn't do ANYTHING. He proceeds to bitch about how it's a tough life, and how we always chokes up when this time comes, how killing is difficult. THEN WHY THE FUCK DID THEY ASSIGN YOU TO A POLITICAL ASSASSINATION THAT IS AS IMPORTANT AS THIS?! I mean, what the HELL? You could have told me that, oh I dunno, BEFORE THE MISSION. But no, he fucks everything up, Squall is stabbed with an ice spear, the party is sent to prison, and the Gardens are now being targeted by the sorcerress. Way to fucking go John Wayne. "I'm to afraid to kill..." No, shut up, just five minutes ago you were shooting people, point blank, in the face with a shot gun, don't give me your pussie excuses. God, I hate this motherfucker. Onto the last, and the last, Rinoa. To sum this up easily, she is as dumb as a brick, her peronality is bland vommit, and she actually likes Seifer to some extent. How the fuck do you like Seifer, he's a complete dick! I hope Squall enjoys those sloppy seconds, cause if he doesn't want Quistis or Selphie, then he deserves Seifers leftovers! And to suppot my dumb theory, she thought approaching the sorceress, with a little charm, would seal of her magic completely. She doesn't even go about it in the right way. She makes her prescence known, lies like an obvious liar from L.A. Noire, and gets the fuck blasted out of her. Seriously, who thought her character was a good idea? I would have picked Quistis or Selphie ANYDAY over her. And this is JUST the main party. I didn't even get into how bad the story was, how lazy some of the writing was, how horrid some of the other characters were, this was just a small fraction of the Final Fantasy 8 experience. Personally, the only things that pulled me through that game was my devotion to Square, my love for Selhpie, and how awesome I thought Laguna was. I thought Laguna would have made a MUCH better main character, and offered a central plot love story that was ten times better than that of Squall and Rinoa's. Sorry if I'm pissing some of you off, but I just hate this game SO much. To be fair, I thought the gameplay was decent. Besides the concept of drawing magic spells, and the complex junction system, I thought the gameplay was okay. So, can I get some feedback? Am I just a bitter prick, or can I get some support? And, again, I don't mean to piss anyone off. I'm new here, believe me, I want to avoid that. This is just my personal opinion. So, gimme yours.

[noshowmillk]

Final Fantasy tends to have those characters you hate. I understand why you feel that way towards the main party even though I could easily tolerate it.:|

[Red Mage Coffman]

I'm not that tolerant. Characters are either good or bad. Or some characters just fall flat on their face, being so tasteless, so boring, that they might as well be cardboard cutouts. Like Rinoa. But still, I did play the game once and I did tolerate it, so I guess SOME part of me has a little bit of approval towards 8.

[noshowmillk]

I never really cared for them either until the second half of the game, even though they were trying to revolve the story around them.

[SwordFox]

You loved the gameplay but hated the characters and battle mechanics.

...So you enjoyed walking through towns and pressing X in battle?

I do agree with you about Laguna, though. Laguna would have made a much better main character. Squall stopped being so much of a douche towards the end of the game, but by that point it hardly mattered. I love Zell, though.

[Red Mage Coffman]

SwordFox, poses a very good point. Let me just explain how much I love the playstation controller... You do pose a very good arguement though. The gameplay can easily be summarized by the X button. Good job, you broke the spine of my gameplay opinion. And yes, thank you! Finally, someone with some sense. I usually tell people Laguna would be better and they slap me with their gunblades and proceed to Ranzokuken my opinon to pieces. To me, Laguna was more interesting, he was more likeable, and, to top it all off, he and Julia would have presented a fine love story. Unlike Squall who was not interesting in the least, he was an unlikeable prick, and he and Rinoa just don't pose a very good love story.

[Flying Mullet]

Considering FFVIII as a whole is stupid that would make the main party stupid as well.

[Red Mage Coffman]

I love you. I don't know who you are, but I love you.

[Jiro]

There was always the idea that Irvine was losing his shit because he knew Edea was their Matron. I think I would be faced with quite the quandary if I was to murder someone I held very dear to me. There's also the possibility that he was assigned to the mission because he was going to fuck it up. NORG mentions something about offering up SeeDs' heads on silver platters to appease the sorceress; I don't think they honestly expected the plan to work.

Zell's character is easily one of the more believable ones. He was always second string to Seifer and Squall and so developed a need to impress people and draw attention. His acrobatics skills and facial tattoo all scream for attention, as does his passion. He might be a bit of a goofball but that is hardly a trait to hate him over.

Whereas you love Selphie, I find her to be one of the weakest cast members. She fulfils the need for a genki girl or whatever the stereotype is called, but outside of the disk 2 missile base-Trabia Garden sections, she shows little in the way of growth or relevance.

Rinoa's idiocy is well acknowledged but you seem to think that it is without basis. That's hardly the case. She obviously had a troublesome childhood; her mother died when she was four (thank you #trivia) and her father was always busy with work. So while she was lacking the attention she so desperately wanted, she was also being pampered and getting whatever she wanted. Sounds contradictory, but think about any spoilt brat kids you know. Rinoa epitomises this with a completely idealistic viewpoint and a lack of real, fundamental skills (at least when relating to SeeD skills such as combat).

Squall's character is far deeper than you realise too. You say it seems like he hates everyone, which is actually the opposite to the truth. He does not hate anyone - except maybe Seifer - but he is too afraid of loss and betrayal that he can't let anyone close. To further protect himself, he takes up a harsh exterior to try and push people away. Do you think someone who hates everyone would be so paranoid about them talking about him in past tense? The Galbadia Garden scene is the strongest present-day example of his insecurities; all of the flashbacks with him standing in the rain highlight it even further.

Quistis doesn't need a mention because I have no points of contention with you.

I think you've identified a lot of pseudo-problems without being able to understand quite what the intent might have been. Certainly Squall seems to personify that aloof archetype but it's not as simple as being reserved and a prick; he has reasons for this, realistic reasons. All of the characters are done with a relatively strong sense of where they're going. Certainly they might not all gel together, leaving us with an incomprehensible plot and an overwhelming sense of disappointment in its resolution, but it wasn't all bad.

[Red Mage Coffman]

Yeah, I'll give you props. I looked at everything you said anfd pretty much nodded my head. Think about it this way though, this is how I saw them. I just didn't like them. I tried to relate with the characters. I really did, and I think my firstplay through I did in some way. I didn't all hate them then. Okay, except maybe Irvine. I still hated him. But the second time around I looked at everything that was happening through a logical viewpoint. Some of the things done by the characters in this game are just flat out stupid. I could rant for days about some of the stupid things that were done, or some of the dumb choices that were made by them. For example, Quistis abandons her post at the assassination JUST to apologize to Rinoa for making her feel bad. Well, one she's a trained mercanarie, hell, she instructs them. Why would she leave her post, playing such a critical role in the plan, and go back JUST to say sorry? That, to me, was lazy as hell and degraded my opinion. Another example, Irvine knew the sorcerress raised them and he didn't say a word through out the story about it, up till that point. I mean, you think he would have had some sense and told everyone these kinda things, but no. He just... doens't. That, again, is lazy. I think my love for the characters were runied as soon as I looked at what they did as characters. You know what I mean? There were just some things in FF8 that drove me up the wall, in terms of characters and how they react with their envoirnments. Ya know?

[Night Fury]

Aren't they all like 17-18?

I know I was smurfing annoying as hell when I was that age.
I think they're quite realistic...


inb4 - and yes I'm still smurfing annoying now :)

[Red Mage Coffman]

Nice input lol. I'm pretty annoying to. Maybe that's why I can't score a date... 0.0 They're all so stupid though. Some of the desicions they make... I could prove my point if you could give me a few hours lol. I'm gonna play through 8 again, to try and reinvent my opinion, try to stop being a nitpicking prick. Hopefully, my eyes will open. Or rather, close again.

[Night Fury]

I really liked the characters.

I liked Quistis a lot because of her big sister type behavior, which I related too a lot when I played through the game. There's a lot wrong with this game, but I really liked the characters.

[Red Mage Coffman]

I only liked a few. The only one I can say I hated purely out of nonstupid behavior was Seifer. Given he was stupid, I hated him. He was such a douche! I thought Robin Wi- I mean, Cid was pretty cool. Laguna and his lot were okay. Well, Kiros and his weird Voldo style movement was weird and Ward with his freaking anchor was... Well, he through his anchor at the enemy JUST to go back and get it from them. So yeah. Laguna was easily my most favorite. Wish he woulda been main, but what can you do? Laguna with his laid back, not smooth lady skills was easily relatable.

[Jiro]

Yeah, I'll give you props. I looked at everything you said anfd pretty much nodded my head. Think about it this way though, this is how I saw them. I just didn't like them. I tried to relate with the characters. I really did, and I think my firstplay through I did in some way. I didn't all hate them then. Okay, except maybe Irvine. I still hated him. But the second time around I looked at everything that was happening through a logical viewpoint. Some of the things done by the characters in this game are just flat out stupid. I could rant for days about some of the stupid things that were done, or some of the dumb choices that were made by them. For example, Quistis abandons her post at the assassination JUST to apologize to Rinoa for making her feel bad. Well, one she's a trained mercanarie, hell, she instructs them. Why would she leave her post, playing such a critical role in the plan, and go back JUST to say sorry? That, to me, was lazy as hell and degraded my opinion. Another example, Irvine knew the sorcerress raised them and he didn't say a word through out the story about it, up till that point. I mean, you think he would have had some sense and told everyone these kinda things, but no. He just... doens't. That, again, is lazy. I think my love for the characters were runied as soon as I looked at what they did as characters. You know what I mean? There were just some things in FF8 that drove me up the wall, in terms of characters and how they react with their envoirnments. Ya know?

I get you, those points there are pretty concrete. The Assassination Sequence is one of the worst parts of the game purely because of Quistis and her decision to go after Rinoa. Well, it's not just her; Selphie and Zell tag along too. All three of them are equally idiotic in that section and it breaks my connection with the story. Plus the sewer part is my least favourite part of the whole game.

Irvine keeping his mouth shut too was one of the slackest plot devices ever used. "Oh I was just confused" whatever Irvine you dick, you just wanted to try and sleep with Selphie.

[Red Mage Coffman]

Funny, I'm playing 8 again now. Decided to give it another chance, try and, you know, not be a critic. I'm barely in the story and I've played 3 hours. I'm to busy collecting Triple Triad cards and buffing my Squall up. This always happens when I play FF8... I can never escape Triple Triad T.T

[Formalhaut]

The reason you can't avoid triple triad is that it makes the game so much easier, refining cards early on in the game makes you a veritable junctioning powerhouse. Not to mention the lovely rare cards you can get this early on in the game.

[maybee]

Another FF 8 bashing thread.


How unoriginal. :greenie:

[Jiro]

He raised interesting points at least!

[Laddy]

I didn't like they main party because despite how much depth they might secretly have, they all fit into an overused RPG archetype.

[Red Mage Coffman]

I'm sorry for hating FF8. I feel like I pick on it WAY to much. Well, I do, but that's besides the point. There is just SO much that bugs me. Like drawing magic. I spend around 25 minutes drawing Esuna from Biggs and Wedge, then spend even more time trying to draw Double from the thing that blows Biggs and Wedge away. How could ANYONE like that? And then there are some dumb things in the story that just baffle me. And yes, most of it is pure logical points, but sometimes logic is all it takes. Like, why on earth would you choose the evil sorceress as a partner to help manage Galbadia? Just... WHY? Why would the people cheer the sorceress on for publicly killing the President AND her ranting about how she is going to bring a reign of terror upon them? I'm trying to get a grasp on it all, maybe somewhere along the line I missed a few things. This is why I'm replaying it. Giving it another chance, if you will. Hopefully, my eyes will open. Or close again.

[Karifean]

There's one thing I never understood: so many people complain about drawing magic, but you don't need to do it! Just don't do it, then you won't have to complain about it. It seems like the Drawing concept is something most players force themselves to go through even though they hate it, it's boring, time-consuming and completely ruins the challenge of the game. :confused:

Also, I'm pretty sure the reason she was made ambassador and why the people cheered for her is because she put a spell on Deling/the audience. At least that's the only conclusion I can come to cause nothing else would make sense.

[Cloudane]

You need to do a lot of drawing if you want to do all the high end extra stuff. But then its equally tedious in 7 running around killing sentient tangerines or in X where you gotta catch 10 of every monster or whatever.

Most of the characters I can see the arguments for. Admittedly I can't think of much going for Rinoa either, and she was deliberately made to look dumb from being the only one without military training. Plus those two guys on the train mission (one of whom has irritable bowel syndrome or something, what was that all about??), basically the timber owls ended up looking colossally retarded.

In fact yes that reminds me, didn't she also need the seed contract rewritten because it used words of more than 2 syllables. Ugh

[Jiro]

The smurfing crowd in Deling, I tell you what, that shit is stupid. Red Mage Coffman you are 100% correct on that point thank you for reminding me. It's fucking stupid.

[NeoCracker]

Another FF 8 bashing thread.


How unoriginal. :greenie:

Another person mocking someone bashing a game they don't like for being unoriginal.

How Unoriginal.

[*Laurelindo*]

You loved the gameplay but hated the characters and battle mechanics.

...So you enjoyed walking through towns and pressing X in battle?

I do agree with you about Laguna, though. Laguna would have made a much better main character. Squall stopped being so much of a douche towards the end of the game, but by that point it hardly mattered. I love Zell, though.
I kinda find it strange that Squall always seems to be liked by everyone in the game despite acting incredibly cold and sometimes even rude to everyone.
I don't know what the social rules are in Japan and America, but I do know that if someone in Sweden acted like Squall at a school or whatever he would be almost instantly left alone because everybody would feel insecure and uncomfortable around him.
"What's the matter with that guy? Eh, guess he wants to be alone, whatever".

[Red Mage Coffman]

I understand what you mean, with the drawing. It doesn't need to be done. Triple Triad is another solution, but in the end isn't it all just tedious busy work? Even though I prefer Triple Triad ten times more. And it does ruin the challenge. Believe me, as of now my Squall has 100 Tornado's junctioned to his attack and he wrecks everything, same for Zell, and Selphie has either Death or Pain for Magic, and she wrecks everything too! Haven't leveled once yet either. Saving that for the Stat Boost abilities. Getting to the main point, I wish this game didn't hand you everything at the beginning. It REALLY does wreck the challenge. While you CAN avoid doing it all, if you're like me, you ALWAYS end up doing it anyways. Maybe I'm a perfectionist or something. I guess EVERY RPG has its share of tedious busy work. 8 Just... combined with everything else makes it more obvious and more annoying.

[Roogle]

Please consider some line breaks in your posts for ease of reading, Red Mage Coffman. It's only a suggestion!

I agree with you that the gameplay of Final Fantasy VIII offers a very repetitive experience when it comes to managing and optimizing your party. I actually use a Gameshark code that allows me to draw 100 stock of a spell when I come across it and it makes the game much less tedious.

[maybee]

I kinda find it strange that Squall always seems to be liked by everyone in the game despite acting incredibly cold and sometimes even rude to everyone.
I don't know what the social rules are in Japan and America, but I do know that if someone in Sweden acted like Squall at a school or whatever he would be almost instantly left alone because everybody would feel insecure and uncomfortable around him.
"What's the matter with that guy? Eh, guess he wants to be alone, whatever".

I think it's because most of the characters were sort of misfits themselves. Zell was always being picked on by Seifer and his crew, Selphie was new to the school and she didn't really know who to meet or hang around with yet and they knew Squall during the mission in Dollet and he was actually a good leader and less of a jerk than Seifer was being, so they probably assumed that there was worst assholes out there than Squall.

Quistis however while popular she had a massive crush on the guy and didn't really stop crushing on him and then made up some excuse that it was brotherly, sister love to cope. I'm sorry Quistis but I don't buy that, because you said that you felt like you didn't have a chance when Rinoa came in. You loved him.




Another person mocking someone bashing a game they don't like for being unoriginal.

How Unoriginal.

Sorry but a thread about Final Fantasy VIII sucking because of it's lame drawing system, Junctioning system and dumb characters isn't really new. We get it, some fans don't like Final Fantasy VIII and think that it's one of the worst in the series.

[Red Mage Coffman]

I will include line posts. Or die trying.
Now... Sorry for bashing Final Fantasy 8. My friends were being a little more than annoying the day I posted this. I don't like this game at all. I wanted, no NEEDED, the opinions of others. Which I now have.

I could pick on Final Fantasy 8 all day, and I'm considering doing a full video playthrough, pointing out problems that are just ridiculous. I'm already taking notes on the current playthough I'm doing. Will I? I dunno. Honestly, I don't wanna piss people off, as I've said before. I DO love arguing with people, debating about this game and such. For now, I'll give it a rest though. I'll pick on another game. Kidding, I might say something good about a game for once :D

[FFIX Choco Boy]

If only I could find my old rant about Final Fantasy VIII... It was a masterpiece, and had basically ever flaw I could find in the game addressed. VIII has long been my least favorite, with Triple Triad and the GF ability learning system being the only redeeming points I could really think of. But Jiro, I hate you because you make such good points all the time. Ruining all our fun bashing on VIII and stuff... I begrudgingly give you props, though.

[Jiro]

I've got to put my minor in creative writing to use somehow ;) There's every chance that my points are off base though. There's no saying that the writers at Square Enix were employing the techniques I thought they were. I mean, nobody can deny that the plot becomes completely fucking spastic when Time Compression gets pulled into the picture. But I like to think that at least there are some things they know how to do well :p

[Red Mage Coffman]

Yeah, I suppose you're right. Just for fun, I think I'm gonna write a story about getting trapped in the game. Replacing Squall as the main character. Seems like it'd be a fun, easy, and epic way to point the flaws out. Even though everyone, by now, must know the flaws. I will say one thing though. I don't hate the characters. I hate the story and what the characters do. Realized that. Well, I do hate Rinoa. And Irvine, but my hate has decreased a lot for him. So, Rinoa is now my least favorite.

[Jiro]

I can easily understand that. I find her to be insufferable :p

[Forsaken Lover]

I personally adored the main cast of FFVIII. The subtle nuances of Zell's hotdog obsession, Selphie's clear insanity, Irvine's attempting to disguise his flamboyant homosexuality beneath a beard of being a lech - they were all so layered and complex.

Not like those losers in FFIX. What an awful game.

[Futan]

SwordFox, poses a very good point. Let me just explain how much I love the playstation controller... You do pose a very good arguement though. The gameplay can easily be summarized by the X button. Good job, you broke the spine of my gameplay opinion. And yes, thank you! Finally, someone with some sense. I usually tell people Laguna would be better and they slap me with their gunblades and proceed to Ranzokuken my opinon to pieces. To me, Laguna was more interesting, he was more likeable, and, to top it all off, he and Julia would have presented a fine love story. Unlike Squall who was not interesting in the least, he was an unlikeable prick, and he and Rinoa just don't pose a very good love story.

Interestingly, they're both parts of one love story. Remember that Squall is Laguna's kid, and Rinoa is Julia's. Laguna and Julia's love came to fruition through their offspring. How romantic and shit.

I agree and disagree in some ways on your opinion of the characters, but my opinion doesn't really matter and more honestly, I'm just too lazy to type it up now. :D

[Iceglow]

To expand upon Jiro's points:

Irvine explains in Trabia during the basketball scene "I thought you guys all knew" he freaked out not only because as a sniper his name goes down in history as the one who shot Edea something like that is not a small task, think about if JFK had been a sanctioned assassination of the CIA/Secret Service. Think about if that agent taking the shot had truly been named as the assassin? How would he cope with the pressure of something so monumentally big? Remember he doesn't have to hate JFK or be doing it because he agrees with the need of it being done, he's just a following an order from above. But he freaked out because above all Edea was Matron and Matron was essentially like a mother to him during his formative years and he loved her. And there she is with Seifer who he may or may not recognize but certainly would remember the name of someone he knows he will have to kill right afterwards. He's conflicted on two fronts, he never asked for the mission, he didn't necessarily want the mission and now he's about to perform the biggest assassination in living memory and making matters harder it's the woman who raised him as a child and down there with her is one of his childhood friends.

In the Balamb Garden civil-war situation. Which btw was over way too quickly though I get the need for urgency considering at the same time Trabia had just been blown to fuck and Selphie's team were on a suicide mission to stop the missiles being launched for Balamb but it feels like this could have been explored more. Perhaps some battles against SeeD supporters of NORG, with Squall and company leaving them wounded but not deceased. Or even a side quest during the 3 days of drifting at sea before hitting FH to heal the rifts (as the only squad not involved they'd make the ideal peace keeping force). When the squad eventually confronts NORG he says that the order for Edea's assassination had come from him but it was not meant to be given to Squall, Martine was supposed to carry out the mission with forces from Gabaldia Garden (so Irvine still would have been involved I suppose) however Martine used the opportunity of Squall's arrival at the Garden to pass blame over to Balamb Garden. NORG attacks the squad with the intent of killing them because he needs to appease the Sorceress Edea by handing over the heads of the SeeDs involved on a platter. Squall and co basically aren't going to take this laying down and so kill the old Shumi bastard before he can kill them.

Laguna, Kiros and Ward's story would have made a good game tbh yes, certainly I feel the 3 characters weren't as developed as they could have been. Laguna and Julia as a love story was never going to happen. Julia invited Laguna to her room, they talk and Laguna falls asleep drinking wine. Julia is pouring out her heart to the man and he fell asleep. When Kiros arrives in Winhill he mentions Julia married General Caraway and that they say she was in love with a soldier who went to war and never came back home and that is who she wrote Eyes On Me about. We know that it is Laguna as the players but Laguna doesn't even seem to acknowledge it was him even though Kiros is saying it with a knowing "hey dude I'm talking about you" style. Laguna then fell in love with Raine and married her, yet when Ellone was kidnapped by the Estharian forces from Winhill he went chasing off with Kiros and recruited Ward along the way on a rescue mission that took so long he never saw Raine again, she gave birth to their son and died without ever seeing the man she loved again. Where was Laguna at this time? Well for some of it he was starring in a low budget movie adaptation of "The Sorceresses' Knight" which ironically is a movie of Seifer's favourite book to earn more money to try and find Ellone. He then makes it to Esthar where he winds up as a member of the resistance against Adel and manages to trick her in to meeting him at Tears Point and then manages to surprise her long enough for the resistance to freeze her. He is elected president of Esthar but he seemingly doesn't send for Raine. Bear in mind that Adel is frozen precisely 17 years prior to the events of FFVIII taking place. Squall is precisely 17 years old at the time of FFVIII so Laguna technically could have had time to send for Raine or to find out that she died in childbirth and he has a son who lives in an orphanage for war children he could have taken some responsibility as a father.

That being said the 3rd disc seems too short, after the Lunar Cry was a perfect opportunity for them to introduce the first "Mark" quest type or perhaps at least an optional side missions to make the 3rd disc grind more appealing in the form of "This is Esthar command, we need support from SeeD on X Y and Z locations, can Garden respond?" This would have led to interesting situations where the player could have split the squad a-la missile base or even introduced additional "party guest members" to round numbers out, perhaps giving characters like Xu or Nida a chance to shine and actually help the squad in battle.

Overall FFVIII is far from a bad game or even the worst in the FF series. However it did miss out on plenty of additional content or perhaps story what could have been in-put without ruining the core of the game. It also did a poor job of explaining motives/events/characters at times but then so did FFVII a game which is often regarded as the best in the series.

[Jinx]

goddammit steve

[Iceglow]

goddammit steve

goddamn what? your face... indeed.

[Jiro]

You guys should read his post, it's actually good.

[Roogle]

Laguna, Kiros and Ward's story would have made a good game tbh yes, certainly I feel the 3 characters weren't as developed as they could have been. Laguna and Julia as a love story was never going to happen. Julia invited Laguna to her room, they talk and Laguna falls asleep drinking wine. Julia is pouring out her heart to the man and he fell asleep. When Kiros arrives in Winhill he mentions Julia married General Caraway and that they say she was in love with a soldier who went to war and never came back home and that is who she wrote Eyes On Me about. We know that it is Laguna as the players but Laguna doesn't even seem to acknowledge it was him even though Kiros is saying it with a knowing "hey dude I'm talking about you" style. Laguna then fell in love with Raine and married her, yet when Ellone was kidnapped by the Estharian forces from Winhill he went chasing off with Kiros and recruited Ward along the way on a rescue mission that took so long he never saw Raine again, she gave birth to their son and died without ever seeing the man she loved again. Where was Laguna at this time?

I agree with you on your assessment of the relationship between Laguna and Julia. I wish they had more interaction or, at the very least, implied additional interaction as I am never a fan of lost love stories where the star-crossed couple only spoke once or twice. I would love it if they had a continued interaction that makes you really feel for the fact that Laguna "settled" for Raine rather than coming back to Julia.

[Iceglow]

I agree with you on your assessment of the relationship between Laguna and Julia. I wish they had more interaction or, at the very least, implied additional interaction as I am never a fan of lost love stories where the star-crossed couple only spoke once or twice. I would love it if they had a continued interaction that makes you really feel for the fact that Laguna "settled" for Raine rather than coming back to Julia.

I don't believe he did settle for Raine. I honestly think that with how confused and pathetically bad at things like that Laguna seemed to be he actually even then after the whole "eyes on me" conversation with Julia just didn't get that she was head over heels in love with him. Perhaps if he'd not been ordered away to fight again he would have learned/gotten somewhere. When he was injured and evacuated to Winhill to recover he meets Raine. Raine is a young, pretty woman who looks after the orphan child from next door and him, nurses him back to health. I think he genuinely fell in love for her and when Kiros shows up and says "I heard she married General Caraway. But she was supposedly in love with a soldier who went off to war and never came back." I think Laguna kind of dismissed the situation as "Well, she chose not to wait for me after all but that's ok because I've found someone who makes me happy on a level I cannot even begin to describe."