Handheld Arguements, aka why the psp is the best handheld.

[Hollycat]

So we don't spam up the other thread so much.

[Formalhaut]

I'd actually disagree with you, for me the PSP is just a smaller PS3, it uses the XMB format (At least I think it's called that) and for all intents and purposes plays the same sort of games.

For me the DS family is better because it utilises touch screen technology and is markedly different from it's parent console, the Wii and Wii U. While the Wii uses motion control, the daughter handheld instead uses something different. With the PSP, aside from a few minor changes, the controls are similar and is basically just a shrunken PS3.

[NeoCracker]

PSP is better because a modded PSP is fucking amazing.

Unmodded, DS has the better Game selection. The only real competition PSP or Vita have is some bitchin remakes.

DS offers more good original Titles which count for a lot more with me.

[Skyblade]

Yep. The Playstation Portable is a very aptly named system. It's a portable Playstation, and that's not a bad thing, but the DS has a better lineup of good games, and more good games in general than the PSP.

[Hollycat]

I would like to point out some amazing titles such as Daxter, Crisis Core, Secret agent clank, size matters, Kingdom Hearts BBS, Warriors Orochi 2, Jak and Daxter 4, Corpse Party, FF 4 complete, Dissidia Duodecim, Bloodlines, NFS MW, P3P, Monster Hunter, 3rd Birthday, lamecraft and others!
The fact that it can play movies, music, and comics is just a small bonus!
It has less games than DS, but a lot more quality ones. It is just better!

[Jowy]

Can't play Elite Beat Agents on your PSP!

[Hollycat]

Can't play minecraft on your ds.

[Laddy]

DS has some of the most original games I've ever seen. Not knocking the PSP, though. It's a good system.

[Aulayna]

PSP is great if you want to play Playstation games on the move.

I'd rather play Playstation games using an actual controller and my TV though.

The whole being able to play movies etc is an irrelevant concern to me where I don't travel long enough distances to make use of it.

For me the DS/3DS, and heck even iOS, has more games that I can pick-up and play and put down again at a whim's notice on short bus-rides/train journeys. So for my personal criteria those are the better systems.

If I had nothing to do all day or had to go on lengthy journeys I'd probably use the PSP - along with about 4 spare battery packs as having one of the original builds the battery life on mine is feckin' attrocious.

[Hollycat]

The 3000 battery lasts about as long as a ds, and the vita even longer. Also, unlike with the ds, you can turn off the system at any time and it saves your spot.

[Jowy]

the DS goes into sleep mode if you close your screen and resumes when you reopen...i think you're rather misinformed. :aimsun:

[Hollycat]

but you can't turn it off.

[NeoCracker]

I would like to point out some amazing titles such as Daxter, Crisis Core, Secret agent clank, size matters, Kingdom Hearts BBS, Warriors Orochi 2, Jak and Daxter 4, Corpse Party, FF 4 complete, Dissidia Duodecim, Bloodlines, NFS MW, P3P, Monster Hunter, 3rd Birthday, lamecraft and others!
The fact that it can play movies, music, and comics is just a small bonus!
It has less games than DS, but a lot more quality ones. It is just better!

I counter those with the vastly superior selection of Devil Survivor 1 & 2, Luminous Arc 1 - 3, Lockes Quest, Nostolgia, Radiant Historia, Final Fantasy IV, ScribbleNaughts, and Sands of Destruction.

[Hollycat]

I would like to point out some amazing titles such as Daxter, Crisis Core, Secret agent clank, size matters, Kingdom Hearts BBS, Warriors Orochi 2, Jak and Daxter 4, Corpse Party, FF 4 complete, Dissidia Duodecim, Bloodlines, NFS MW, P3P, Monster Hunter, 3rd Birthday, lamecraft and others!
The fact that it can play movies, music, and comics is just a small bonus!
It has less games than DS, but a lot more quality ones. It is just better!

I counter those with the vastly superior selection of Devil Survivor 1 & 2, Luminous Arc 1 - 3, Lockes Quest, Nostolgia, Radiant Historia, Final Fantasy IV, ScribbleNaughts, and Sands of Destruction.

One of those is a not as good version of a game on the psp, scribblenauts is the most pointless and easy game ever concieved. I haven't played the rest except DS. And DS < P3P

[NeoCracker]

FF IV on PSP can only be superior because of The After Years being included, and Scribblenaughts is just gooffy fun, so I'll let that one slide.

But your list includes Monsterhunter and the Jack and Daxter games, all of which are simply decent. Really that's the entire list, games that are decent.

And P3P failed because it lacked the answer, leaving it inferior to FES on the PSP anyway, so that's hardly a selling point there.

[Hollycat]

FF IV on PSP can only be superior because of The After Years being included, and Scribblenaughts is just gooffy fun, so I'll let that one slide.

But your list includes Monsterhunter and the Jack and Daxter games, all of which are simply decent. Really that's the entire list, games that are decent.

And P3P failed because it lacked the answer, leaving it inferior to FES on the PSP anyway, so that's hardly a selling point there.
It has the female protagonist, bonus battle areas, and a new opening.

[Formalhaut]

Sheesh you're seriously in love with the PSP. I agree with the other comments, for me, if I wanted to play a Playstation game I'd do it in my bedroom with a TV and chair. For me the Nintendo family is just more apt for a "pick up and play" style of gaming. I'd have to be gone away from home for quite a while to even consider a PSP.

[NeoCracker]

FF IV on PSP can only be superior because of The After Years being included, and Scribblenaughts is just gooffy fun, so I'll let that one slide.

But your list includes Monsterhunter and the Jack and Daxter games, all of which are simply decent. Really that's the entire list, games that are decent.

And P3P failed because it lacked the answer, leaving it inferior to FES on the PSP anyway, so that's hardly a selling point there.
It has the female protagonist, bonus battle areas, and a new opening.

None of which interest me in the slightest.

[Hollycat]

FF IV on PSP can only be superior because of The After Years being included, and Scribblenaughts is just gooffy fun, so I'll let that one slide.

But your list includes Monsterhunter and the Jack and Daxter games, all of which are simply decent. Really that's the entire list, games that are decent.

And P3P failed because it lacked the answer, leaving it inferior to FES on the PSP anyway, so that's hardly a selling point there.
It has the female protagonist, bonus battle areas, and a new opening.

None of which interest me in the slightest.
Fair enough, I on the otherhand, have no interest in FES.

[Red Mage Coffman]

PSP? Don't you mean PS1? Kidding, but in all seriousness. There are only a few games that I REALLY want on PSP.
Star Ocean: First Departure and Second Evoltuion
Crisis Core
Persona 3 (And yes it is inferior to FES)
Final Fantasy 4: Complete Collection
Final Fantasy 3 (Even if it is overpriced)
Dissidia Duodecim
Disgaea: Afternoon of Darkness and Dark Hero Days
Tactics: War of the Lions

there are a few others, but my main attraction to this system was the PS1 selection. I mean, that's almost all of the Final Fantasy collection right there. What could be cooler than having my favorite game series on one, handheld system? Would I play FF7 at a boring family reunion? Fuck yeah! Would I play FF8 to... never mind. Would I play FF9 on a bad date? Damn right? (God... Did I just suggest games over women?) Is PSP the best handheld in my opinion? Yeah, but only because of the epic PS1 selection. Everything else is good, but mainly meh.

[Depression Moon]

I just want a handheld. The last one I owned was a GBA and I ended up losing that within a year I think.

[Bolivar]

Cactuar, I'm sorry I left you stranded with our rude and stubborn friends :p


For me the Nintendo family is just more apt for a "pick up and play" style of gaming. I'd have to be gone away from home for quite a while to even consider a PSP.

I've seen a few of you saying that and this opinion is quite outdated. When the PSP started, it focused on console games that ran poorly and weren't fun. That's why I didn't buy one. But then something magical happened. They learned how to make console games fit the handheld experience. They made Gran Turismo, Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker, and Valkyria Chronicles 2 that play well on the PSP and can be consumed in 5-10 minute chunks. So Formalhaut, my friend, with all due respect,

I don't have any idea what you're talking about.

Now that's out of the way, we can set this off right.

First, I don't think it's disputable that, hardware-wise, the PSP is the better machine. I enjoyed walking out of my apartment, listening to music on my headphones as I walk to the shuttle. Once I was safely on, I'd unlock the system, stop the song, and boot up my save of Xenogears. I'd fight a couple battles, plow deeper into a dungeon, then once I arrived at the other campus, pause in the middle of fight and go back to my music as I walked to class. Finally, as I waited for a professor, I was able to get in a couple more deathblows and down a few more monsters before class began. You could also switch that up with comic books or videos, so a little Gundam Wing or Arrested Development is just as incredible as bite-sized Xenogears...

That's power the DS just doesn't have.

Now I understand some of you don't have commutes. I can't figure out why that matters. No one enjoys console games on a console more than me. I have my PS3 hooked up to a HDTV and digitally wired for surround sound. But I enjoy the small screen and some headphones just as much. Some titles even look and sound better that way. Getting in a good RPG session in bed just before going to sleep, with a glass of water on the nightstand, is one of my favorite ways to game.

Lastly we have the library.

I see almost all of you are really one-sided here. Either the PSP is meh or it's only good modded. There aren't any "it's an awesome system!!! I just like the DS better!"

Well, I'm not sure if it gives me a credibility advantage, but I really think both systems are awesome. I owned a DS for years and openly disparaged the PSP until it got its act together. It has some of my favorite games ever, in both original titles as well as remakes. I thought the stylus was nothing less than a stellar shake-up of what we thought we knew about gaming. The fact that a cache of products made it a legitimate and meaningful interface for memorable games is a testament to the enduring genius of Nintendo.

But I just can't think of a game that's better than Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker. The aesthetics are just too damn good. The themes make me glad I got a Political Science degree. And the gameplay? Kojima's first co-op game, and it's more fun than some of the western devs who have been doing it for years! Co-Ops and everything in MGS that revolved around it was innovation, and it was marvelous to behold on handheld.

I felt the same way with Valkyria Chronicles 2. Like Peace Walker, VC2 not only introduced co-op to a series, but co-op that in turn injected new ideas back into the gameplay. With charming characters, engrossing political intrigue, fresh gameplay, beautiful artwork, and the amazing soundscapes of the legendary Hitoshi Sakimoto, what more could a RPG fan want? Well, the addictiveness of the handheldization and sheer genius of the co-op makes it a game that's harder to put away than its console counterpart.

And I'm sorry, but ports and remakes do matter. Final Fantasy I-IX, Chrono Trigger & Cross, Xenogears, FFTactics, and Parasite Eve 1&2. These are some of the best RPGs ever made and they look and sound better on the PSP than they do on a TV. And I'll apologize even further - Tactics Ogre is possibly the greatest game I've ever played, and it's best version is only available on Sony's handheld.

The GameBoy Color is close, but the PSP is the best handheld I've ever owned.

edit: (I lost my limit break on edit, but Jowy literally just rep'ed me, saying: "wait xenogears on PSP?! tell me how to make this happen." lol

[Skyblade]

I'm not trying to deny that the PSP is an awesome system. I just think most of its charm comes from its ports and remakes.

That's honestly awesome. I've gotten to the point where I prefer a handheld to my consoles, and I love being able to take the Final Fantasy games, or Persona 3 on the go, or even just outside my room. I love its functionality, and I love some of its games.

But the DS has a better lineup of games I'm interested in. My DS library is probably 3 times the size of my PSP library, and only includes one or two remakes, instead of being over half ports.

The PSP is an awesome system, but the majority of its awesomeness comes from the fact that it is a portable Playstation. And there weren't tons of games I loved on the PSX.

[Del Murder]

I like the PSP because it has better graphics and I have access to all those PS1 games I never played. But the DS overall has better games.

[Slothy]

And I'm sorry, but ports and remakes do matter. Final Fantasy I-IX, Chrono Trigger & Cross, Xenogears, FFTactics, and Parasite Eve 1&2. These are some of the best RPGs ever made and they look and sound better on the PSP than they do on a TV. And I'll apologize even further - Tactics Ogre is possibly the greatest game I've ever played, and it's best version is only available on Sony's handheld.

I don't think anyone argued that ports and remakes don't matter, but when listing more than a half dozen games worth playing without listing them is difficult, there is something very wrong with a handhelds (or any consoles for that matter) library. After all, any argument about what the thing is capable of starts to go out the window when what it's capable of doesn't amount to much more than playing 10+ year old games on a practical level.

Like I said Bolivar, I like the PSP, but the fact that none of us can seem to name many games worth owning outside of PSX ports and remakes tells me that it really never got the support it deserved. It was a capable little system, but only a handful of games ever bothered to show it. I can't say the same about handhelds like the DS or GBA.

Which is why I generally dislike bringing up ports and remakes as being the best titles on a system. No one will deny that they're great games. No one is going to say that they aren't a point in its favour, especially for those that never played them. But being able to play ten or more year old games doesn't make something the best system ever. I'll say again, it'd be like arguing that the PS2 had the best console library ever because it played PSX games. Sure, that's a good point in favour of owning one, but a really great console or handheld needs more going for it than the ability to play its predecessors greatest hits.

[Formalhaut]

Oh yes, I love my jack of all trades PS2. PS1 and PS2 games? I love you.

[Bolivar]

Gran Turismo, MGS Peacewalker, the Monster Hunter series, God of War Chains of Olympus + Ghost of Sparta, the Patapon games, Death Jr., Motorstorm Arctic Edge, Dissidia 012 Duodecim, Twisted Metal Head-On, PixelJunk Monsters Deluxe, the LocoRoco games, the Fireteam Bravo games, Killzone Liberation, the Kingdom Hearts installments, Jeanne D'Arc, the Badman games, Valkyria Chronicles 2, Hot Shots Tennis Get a Grip.

The reason no one assembled a list is because it would be redundant. We could go back and forth title-for-title until the cows come home.


But being able to play ten or more year old games doesn't make something the best system ever.

Which is why functionality and original titles dominated the majority of my post, which I now lamentably wish you had enough respect for me to read. Peace Walker and Valkyria Chronicles II being head and shoulders above any title I've played in the longer time I've owned a DS Lite and GameBoy Color make the debate a subjective analysis that comes down to your preference and the games you've played. But the shockingly extensive list of most of the greatest games ever made is only the nitrous boost that makes the PSP far and away the best handheld ever made.

[Aulayna]

And this [the above post], ladies and gentlemen, is why this discussion is pointless and why I'm spent so many years avoiding video game related forums:

Passive aggressive posts like the above that are essentially masked "I'm right, you're wrong - nothing you're going to say will change that and I will jump at every opportunity to berate your personal preference for being incorrect."

Oh look! Paint drying, how entertaining!

[Formalhaut]

And this [the above post], ladies and gentlemen, is why this discussion is pointless and why I'm spent so many years avoiding video game related forums:

Passive aggressive posts like the above that are essentially masked "I'm right, you're wrong - nothing you're going to say will change that and I will jump at every opportunity to berate your personal preference for being incorrect."

Oh look! Paint drying, how entertaining!

Bolivar is just epic at these sort of debates, it's not mean, just gentlemanly debate. I think though, that really calling something the "best" handheld is trite because different people look for different things. I prefer the DS, though I do respect the PSP and it's second cousin the Vita for the features it brings. We can compare and contrast for endless days but really both systems offer something different, just take your pick.

[Bolivar]

And this [the above post], ladies and gentlemen, is why this discussion is pointless and why I'm spent so many years avoiding video game related forums:

Passive aggressive posts like the above that are essentially masked "I'm right, you're wrong - nothing you're going to say will change that and I will jump at every opportunity to berate your personal preference for being incorrect."

Oh look! Paint drying, how entertaining!

Listing supporting facts when asked to, identifying inconsistencies, and clarifying your position are the bread and butter of argument. It's also how that post progressed.

But accusing me of being passive agressive is not only tangential and a logical fallacy, it's also false (I can't find anything that's passive aggressive (http://www.counselling-directory.org.uk/counsellor-articles/what-is-passive-aggressive-behaviour)). Ironically, all those things are pretty great reasons to avoid video game forums.

edit: I just realized Aulayna was the one in the other thread who ended a post "Context is marvelous thing when you contort it." Irony++

[Formalhaut]

Come on guys, group hugs all round!


http://bellasabbagh.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/group-hug-coloured.jpg

[Pike]

MOD TIME:

Everyone chill.

NON MOD TIME:

I effing love the GBA because of all the great SNES ports and I don't even care. I like handhelds because of ports and Pokemon and that's about it. (Also because it used to be my giant family would hog the consoles, so the handhelds were the only thing that were truly "mine", but these days I have my own stuff, so!)

[Skyblade]

Gran Turismo, MGS Peacewalker, the Monster Hunter series, God of War Chains of Olympus + Ghost of Sparta, the Patapon games, Death Jr., Motorstorm Arctic Edge, Dissidia 012 Duodecim, Twisted Metal Head-On, PixelJunk Monsters Deluxe, the LocoRoco games, the Fireteam Bravo games, Killzone Liberation, the Kingdom Hearts installments, Jeanne D'Arc, the Badman games, Valkyria Chronicles 2, Hot Shots Tennis Get a Grip.

The reason no one assembled a list is because it would be redundant. We could go back and forth title-for-title until the cows come home.


But being able to play ten or more year old games doesn't make something the best system ever.

Which is why functionality and original titles dominated the majority of my post, which I now lamentably wish you had enough respect for me to read. Peace Walker and Valkyria Chronicles II being head and shoulders above any title I've played in the longer time I've owned a DS Lite and GameBoy Color make the debate a subjective analysis that comes down to your preference and the games you've played. But the shockingly extensive list of most of the greatest games ever made is only the nitrous boost that makes the PSP far and away the best handheld ever made.

See, my problem with your list is that I have no interest in most of those. Kingdom Hearts and Dissidia, ok. And I do want to try Valkyria Chronicles at some point. Other than that, though, none of those appeal to me.

And that is why this discussion is pointless, because everyone prefers different games.

But, since arguing is fun...

Bolivar, what about Golden Sun series, the Rune Factory games, Dragon Quest IX, FFTA and FFTA2, the Fire Emblem games, the Advance Wars games, 358/2 Days, the Pokemon games, Radiant Historia, the Megaman Battle Network and Zero series, the Phoenix Wright games, the Legend of Zelda games, the Metroid games? I'd rate any of those over most of the games on your list.

[Aulayna]

Listing supporting facts when asked to, identifying inconsistencies, and clarifying your position are the bread and butter of argument. It's also how that post progressed.


None of which you've really done to any significantly respectable degree.

The majority of your replies just twist words and use your own personal preferences/experiences as fact rather than opinion all in a very underhand abrasive tone toward the person you're quoting. You show little to no respect about differences of preferences or tastes which is not "gentlemanly debate" at all.

On that context comment - it still stands - perhaps what I was making reference too was just a bit obtuse. The point I was trying to make was that your argument wasn't exactly holding a lot of water when you countered Nintendo's launch schedule with 2 games that came out quite some time into the PSPs life cycle. I fully understand that you were calling Vivi out on the ports comment but it was still a rather contorted counter argument.

Maybe I'm just miscontruing the way you're making your points though.

[Slothy]

Which is why functionality and original titles dominated the majority of my post, which I now lamentably wish you had enough respect for me to read.

Honestly Bolivar, I'm just not sure why I bother anymore. I'm just pretty smurfing sick and tired of every debate in which myself or anyone else disagrees with you about something lately resulting in you immediately accusing someone of not reading your posts or needing to work on their reading comprehension when they are clearly and directly addressing points which you yourself made. Frankly, it's more than a little insulting. If you think someone missed the point you were trying to make, then fair enough, but how about trying to actually explain it then instead of being completely dismissive and insulting the intelligence of other members in this wishy washy, non-committal way you seem wont to do?

But because I don't want to be completely dismissive and am still willing to engage you in an open and honest debate, I'll include an actual response to your arguments. As to any argument about functionality, yeah, the PSP is the more powerful system. The DS also has two screens and a more novel control interface. Which of those makes a console superior to another? Which is objectively better? How do you even begin to compare the two?

As to original titles, I don't think anyone could deny that the DS had a substantially larger library, complete with more original titles if only by simple virtue of having a control method that no other handheld ever had. Comparing the actual titles beyond that is a pretty pointless endeavor as any discussion of quality beyond perhaps comparing metacritic scores (still subjective, but at least it's an average of the published reviews publishers paid good money for and user scores :p) is pretty subjective and not entirely useful.

My point is, I really don't care about this debate at all. I have no pony in this race, and I couldn't care less which any of you consider better because there is no objective measuring of something like that to be found here. But I do disagree with you that ports and remakes are overly important in determining how good a console or handheld is. They're nice to have, but if all the PS3 had going for it was HD remakes of PS2 games it'd be a pretty terrible console. Ports and remakes alone do not a great handheld make in my opinion. And that's all it is, my opinion. If someone had argued that I should buy a PSP just because I could play the PSX FF titles I still own copies of on disc, I'd have laughed in their face. You can take it or leave it.

And hell, the DS and GBA had their fair share or ports and remakes as well. Often of a number of titles which are not RPG's, but are classics none the less, which would appeal to a different type of gamer, so if remakes and ports of RPG's is what you have to hang your hat on, that's cool for those that like them, but not everyone will. Again, it just highlights that this idea of one being better than the other is pointless. In fact, I generally like to steer clear of ever even stating that one platform is better than another for just these reasons. Sure, I'll list objective differences between two platforms until the cows come home, and I am more than happy to engage in speculation on what platforms I think may succeed or fail, but I prefer to do my best to steer clear of making firm, conclusive, value judgements when so much of which one someone likes more comes down to one question: what do you want from your gaming platform?

[Loony BoB]

I can only add to this debate based on my limited experience. Danielle and I own a lot of handheld consoles - PSP, 2x DS, 2x GBA, etc. but not so many games, and we don't play games on them very often, either. The exception is playing PS1 ports on the PSP, because it's a fantastic console for this. When you add in the video playing and (admittedly limited) internet capabilities of the PSP, I've probably found it to be the best console.

Keep in mind I say console, not games. Games are very, very debatable and 100% down to personal preference. Some people might adore the Mario and Pokémon games while others might find them less interesting. Personally, Mario games never captured me outside of Mario Kart, which is due to N64 which is not a handheld console, so... yeah. Again, if we focus on console, I'd not say anything from Nintendo. I'd probably say the Vita, if I had used one and therefore could back up any claim. It probably is the best console. Just not the best library by any means! The PSP is similar but with a good library. And that moves on to that end of things.

The most interesting games I've played on Nintendo handhelds are the puzzle solving or language learning games. Pokémon has definitely grabbed a bunch of cash out of Danielle and myself but I still generally consider them to be entertaining but incomplete games. I actually find Pokémon as a series really insulting in how it recycles the same game over and over and over with limited changes. The main change - that of the actual Pokémon - is something I consider to be a bad thing rather than a good thing. So I dislike the series despite having spent my money on it (admittedly mostly through eBay at something closer to what I would consider value for money).

Professor What'shisface and the language games on the DS, though, both are great. I don't play them very often, though, and with that in mind I just can't justify the DS yet. I still need to play FFIII on it. Maybe that will improve my opinion.

As for the PSP, I would say it has a quality library because ports, to me, are one of the mainstays of any handheld console. Most Mario games I consider to be ports. Most Pokémon games I consider to be ports. Technically, are they? No. But particularly in the case of Pokémon, it's the same bloody game over and over again. I like the FF ports. I like the LBP port (well, it's okay, anyway). I really would love to have more ports on my PSP but I don't know if I can afford them right now. The early RE series is something I'd love to have a go on. Finally, the actual non-ported games. Every PSP game I've played so far - and I'll have to emphasise once more than I don't play games very often on handhelds, particularly games that are not ports - has been enjoyable, particularly in the case of Crisis Core.

If I had to take one console with me on holiday, the PSP would be that console due to the vast number of games I can play on it, the TV shows and movies I can watch, the internet sites I can read, etc. Of course, I'm lucky to not be limited to one console, as I wouldn't have wanted to be without the DS and Learn Spanish when I was in Menorca!

[Bolivar]

The majority of your replies just twist words and use your own personal preferences/experiences as fact rather than opinion all in a very underhand abrasive tone toward the person you're quoting. You show little to no respect about differences of preferences or tastes which is not "gentlemanly debate" at all.

Can I please ask you:


Peace Walker and Valkyria Chronicles II being head and shoulders above any title I've played in the longer time I've owned a DS Lite and GameBoy Color make the debate a subjective analysis that comes down to your preference and the games you've played.

Why you're coming at me? Why are you accusing me of dismissing opinions when I'm on the record saying this largely comes down to opinions? And you still haven't clarified what I said to Vivi was passive aggressive or "i'm right you're wrong."

Do you have something against me?


Honestly Bolivar, I'm just not sure why I bother anymore. I'm just pretty smurfing sick and tired of every debate in which myself or anyone else disagrees with you about something lately resulting in you immediately accusing someone of not reading your posts or needing to work on their reading comprehension when they are clearly and directly addressing points which you yourself made

Can


But I do disagree with you that ports and remakes are overly important in determining how good a console or handheld is.

You


Ports and remakes alone do not a great handheld make in my opinion.

Really


But being able to play ten or more year old games doesn't make something the best system ever.

Blame me?


Sure, that's a good point in favour of owning one, but a really great console or handheld needs more going for it than the ability to play its predecessors greatest hits.

So you've said 4, or 3 1/2 times in this thread so far that you need more than ports/remakes to have a great handheld. How can I not help but assume you haven't read my post when ports/remakes were limited to a relatively small part at the end of a very long post? Is this really insulting when we have ample quotes by you to suggest it?

And how can you be insulted when the only contribution you've made to this thread was to disagree with me? Vivi, this isn't the first time that you've admitted to having no interest in the topic at hand, yet you still enter in order to pick apart my argument at every chance. What's up with you?


Bolivar, what about Golden Sun series, the Rune Factory games, Dragon Quest IX, FFTA and FFTA2, the Fire Emblem games, the Advance Wars games, 358/2 Days, the Pokemon games, Radiant Historia, the Megaman Battle Network and Zero series, the Phoenix Wright games, the Legend of Zelda games, the Metroid games? I'd rate any of those over most of the games on your list.

Bro, I actually own a lot of those games! I even think a lot of those games are downright groundbreaking. I thought Phantom Hourglass was an incredible use of the stylus and was an apotheosis of the Nintendo DS. I thought Rune Factory was an amazing refresh of the series.

I only made my list since Vivi said we'd been having trouble naming more than half a dozen decent titles on the PSP. I think both systems have a long library of great games. And I'm sure we could find some more titles that you would like if we talked about Growlanser, or the Legend of Heroes games and maybe some in the Disgaea universe. All I'm saying is that none of my favorite DS games have reached the heights of titles like Peace Walker or Valkyria Chronicles. I would throw Tactics Ogre in there but I might get my head bitten off for being dismissive or mean or something. So when it comes to library of original titles, as I said, quoted above, I really think its subjective, if you think the best titles on one can really top the best titles on the other. But I take better design and functionality and the extensive list of a lot of the greatest games ever made as sealing the deal. But that's just for me.

I'll also agree with BoB that:


Pokémon has definitely grabbed a bunch of cash out of Danielle and myself but I still generally consider them to be entertaining but incomplete games. I actually find Pokémon as a series really insulting in how it recycles the same game over and over and over with limited changes.

Pokemon is the flagship Nintendo handheld title, it's a huge reason for owning one, to me. But I actually had to stop playing Pokemon White because the remake of Heart Gold was so much more fun. The series has gotten into some serious trouble on the last handheld, and I've heard Black/White 2 is probably the biggest debacle yet. It's one of Nintendo's key strengths to handheld dominance, and it's in dire need of help right now.

[Loony BoB]

For what it's worth, I haven't seen anything that bad in this thread except for the people claiming that what people have said was somehow really bad. Remember, everyone, to focus on the debate at hand rather than making things personal (being frustrated with the manner of debate from other members is not an excuse, if you feel someone has broken rules of the forums, use the warn button). I don't like repeating myself nor repeating other mods, so I trust that I'm not the only mod who will be happy to delete any further personal attacks in this thread as and when they are made.

This post is not a reply to anyone in particular, but rather a notice for all involved. Be respectful at all times.

[Skyblade]

Bolivar, what about Golden Sun series, the Rune Factory games, Dragon Quest IX, FFTA and FFTA2, the Fire Emblem games, the Advance Wars games, 358/2 Days, the Pokemon games, Radiant Historia, the Megaman Battle Network and Zero series, the Phoenix Wright games, the Legend of Zelda games, the Metroid games? I'd rate any of those over most of the games on your list.

Bro, I actually own a lot of those games! I even think a lot of those games are downright groundbreaking. I thought Phantom Hourglass was an incredible use of the stylus and was an apotheosis of the Nintendo DS. I thought Rune Factory was an amazing refresh of the series.

I only made my list since Vivi said we'd been having trouble naming more than half a dozen decent titles on the PSP. I think both systems have a long library of great games. And I'm sure we could find some more titles that you would like if we talked about Growlanser, or the Legend of Heroes games and maybe some in the Disgaea universe. All I'm saying is that none of my favorite DS games have reached the heights of titles like Peace Walker or Valkyria Chronicles. I would throw Tactics Ogre in there but I might get my head bitten off for being dismissive or mean or something. So when it comes to library of original titles, as I said, quoted above, I really think its subjective, if you think the best titles on one can really top the best titles on the other. But I take better design and functionality and the extensive list of a lot of the greatest games ever made as sealing the deal. But that's just for me.

I'll also agree with BoB that:


Pokémon has definitely grabbed a bunch of cash out of Danielle and myself but I still generally consider them to be entertaining but incomplete games. I actually find Pokémon as a series really insulting in how it recycles the same game over and over and over with limited changes.

Pokemon is the flagship Nintendo handheld title, it's a huge reason for owning one, to me. But I actually had to stop playing Pokemon White because the remake of Heart Gold was so much more fun. The series has gotten into some serious trouble on the last handheld, and I've heard Black/White 2 is probably the biggest debacle yet. It's one of Nintendo's key strengths to handheld dominance, and it's in dire need of help right now.

As I said, fair enough. But, for me, the DS's top tier games are better than the PSP's. and the PSP is hurt in my mind that the fact that its best titles are ports. My favorite PSP title is probably P3P, followed by FFVII and Birth By Sleep. And while I love P3P and have played it to death, it isn't as good as Chrono Trigger, and CT's best version is on the DS. Going by original games, BBS and Dissidia are probably my favorites on the system, and, while good, they don't stack up to FFTA2, Rune Factory 3, or Golden Sun.


Pokemon's only real innovation is in its spinoffs, unfortunately. The main series seems to do its best to kill innovation everywhere. And I hated the remake of Gold and Silver, as I explained in detail in my post in the "Good Games You Hate" thread. Give us a sequel, even a handheld sequel, to XD, please!

[Aulayna]

I know we've been asked to stop but as you asked me to clarify I'll owe you that and then leave it here and agree to disagree with you on most points.



Can I please ask you:


Peace Walker and Valkyria Chronicles II being head and shoulders above any title I've played in the longer time I've owned a DS Lite and GameBoy Color make the debate a subjective analysis that comes down to your preference and the games you've played.

Why you're coming at me? Why are you accusing me of dismissing opinions when I'm on the record saying this largely comes down to opinions? And you still haven't clarified what I said to Vivi was passive aggressive or "i'm right you're wrong."

Do you have something against me?

No I don't have nothing against you, just the way you have gone about posting your opinion in this - and the other thread - by in large you cycle two games repeatedly as being the best games ever and whenever people have posted titles they have enjoyed you immediately jump into a game of one-up-manship with PSP titles/functionality that you deem to be better without even as much of a sidethought as to why the person posted what they did. This can be interpreted as dismissing their opinion or saying they're wrong. Largely (outside of this particular debate) I find a lot of your posts quite insightful and this is nothing personal against you at all.

I would also touch on one other thing but I fear that would really be veering into pissing mods off territory. So I'll let that dog sleep.

Then there's also the style of language (which sadly being on the worlds crappiest laptop right now I don't have the luxury of digging all the examples out) you use referring to things as "nitrous boosts" for example which is clearly an attempt to illicit a response - which is mostly what I was trying to point out. Maybe it's meant as jovial digging, I don't know, but if it is it really doesn't come across that way - it comes off as abrasive to me. As I said in my previous post though - perhaps I'm miscontruing your point(s ). I was (probably in the wrong way) probing for something like this...



Bolivar, what about Golden Sun series, the Rune Factory games, Dragon Quest IX, FFTA and FFTA2, the Fire Emblem games, the Advance Wars games, 358/2 Days, the Pokemon games, Radiant Historia, the Megaman Battle Network and Zero series, the Phoenix Wright games, the Legend of Zelda games, the Metroid games? I'd rate any of those over most of the games on your list.

Bro, I actually own a lot of those games! I even think a lot of those games are downright groundbreaking. I thought Phantom Hourglass was an incredible use of the stylus and was an apotheosis of the Nintendo DS. I thought Rune Factory was an amazing refresh of the series.

I only made my list since Vivi said we'd been having trouble naming more than half a dozen decent titles on the PSP. I think both systems have a long library of great games. And I'm sure we could find some more titles that you would like if we talked about Growlanser, or the Legend of Heroes games and maybe some in the Disgaea universe. All I'm saying is that none of my favorite DS games have reached the heights of titles like Peace Walker or Valkyria Chronicles. I would throw Tactics Ogre in there but I might get my head bitten off for being dismissive or mean or something. So when it comes to library of original titles, as I said, quoted above, I really think its subjective, if you think the best titles on one can really top the best titles on the other. But I take better design and functionality and the extensive list of a lot of the greatest games ever made as sealing the deal. But that's just for me.

I'll also agree with BoB that:


Pokémon has definitely grabbed a bunch of cash out of Danielle and myself but I still generally consider them to be entertaining but incomplete games. I actually find Pokémon as a series really insulting in how it recycles the same game over and over and over with limited changes.

Pokemon is the flagship Nintendo handheld title, it's a huge reason for owning one, to me. But I actually had to stop playing Pokemon White because the remake of Heart Gold was so much more fun. The series has gotten into some serious trouble on the last handheld, and I've heard Black/White 2 is probably the biggest debacle yet. It's one of Nintendo's key strengths to handheld dominance, and it's in dire need of help right now.

If all of your posts in this thread had been like this none of this would even have happened. This is by far more of a respectful two way discussion rather than simply responding with "oh but this is better" style responses and this to me is actually more of a more meaningful contribution to the thread as a whole and if this had been the start of thread I never would've posted anything that I did.

So I'll just go back to my first post in this thread as my view on this.

I suppose, in regards to my first post, I should clarify that for me "pick-up-put-down" means more shorter game things such as Wario Ware/Mario Kart etc. For me when it comes to indepth games (such as RPGs) I'd rather start a fight over than come back to it frozen in time several hours/days (sometimes even weeks) later when I'm not in the groove in the anymore. Obviously such functionality has it's merits, but for me it's not a deal maker. :) (which is why I've owned and sold 4 PSPs in my time)

If this is deemed as a personal attack post then I'm sorry, it's not the intention behind it at all - But do as you will.

[Formalhaut]

Actually this is where I tend to agree with Bolivar, in terms of Franchises that are well known, for me, the DS is actually somewhat narrow. Off the top of my head, I can remember:

Mario
Pokemon
Professor Layton (YES!!!)
Dr Kawashima and his brain training stuff
Toon Link Zelda Series
Odd Metroid Game

Past that, I honestly can't really remember any other franchise. That's not necessarily bad, but it does restrain a system as to what games it can produce. Of course, I can counter myself by saying single, standalone games are by themselves amazing. Case in point? The world ends with you. So far, it's a single game but it is just epic and amazing.

In my opinion, for all I know what I've just said is utter tripe.

[Aulayna]

Actually this is where I tend to agree with Bolivar, in terms of Franchises that are well known, for me, the DS is actually somewhat narrow. Off the top of my head, I can remember:

Mario
Pokemon
Professor Layton (YES!!!)
Dr Kawashima and his brain training stuff
Toon Link Zelda Series
Odd Metroid Game

Past that, I honestly can't really remember any other franchise. That's not necessarily bad, but it does restrain a system as to what games it can produce. Of course, I can counter myself by saying single, standalone games are by themselves amazing. Case in point? The world ends with you. So far, it's a single game but it is just epic and amazing.

In my opinion, for all I know what I've just said is utter tripe.

I agree - although I'd also add the Golden Sun games, the Phoenix Wright games and that Murder/Mystery/Horror series that's name is currently escaping me.

But - I do think (given it's hardware) that the developers took more creative risks on the DS than with the PSP. Though this doesn't always pay off - and some games (i.e. Kingdom Hearts) never really translate over very well (although saying that - I loved Dream Drop Distance). The PSP when franchises went to that I pretty much knew what to expect - a PSP version of the console game. Not bad by any means, but part of the charm of handheld gaming for me was finding experiences unique to handhelds (such as TWEWY) - Now I'm not saying that the PSP doesn't have these titles in it's repertoire, because it does, but for my personal tastes the DS has a more varied library.

I'm also glad to see franchises like Kid Icarus making a return on the 3DS.

I guess I grew up to become a bit of a "casual gamer" as I'm not looking for full fledged console experiences on the go.

Saying that all my handhelds are currently collecting dust right now and never really see much use outside of trips back to the UK or when I have to go to California (at which point the IFE usually gets more attention ><)

[Formalhaut]

I completely missed out the Phoenix Wright Games! Hopefully the PS Vita can capture what the PSP for me failed to do, make great games with a great control scheme. The touchscreen function might actually make me want to purchase games for it. The reason I prefer the DS is, like you Aulayna, is that I am a casual gamer. If I do play games, it's a nice gentle game, unless I've got time off where I'll play a FF or another single player game. I never really got multiplayer.

[MTKO]

I've owned 3 different PSPs quite some time ago and it was one of my favorite handhelds I've owned. I think the best part about the whole thing for me was the massive and up to date homebrew scene and the community that was involved with it. At one point great new apps and new findings were coming out on a daily basis for months. Installation of custom firmware to run homebrew material became extremely easy at one point (haven't followed the scene in a while so I don't know how it is with the Vita) and I helped many of my friends install it. The actual retail games were alright and there were a few great ones like Wipeout Pure, but I think the homebrew scene and the communities desire to fully unlock the potential of the PSP was the greatest aspect for me. Unfortunately, I no longer own any PSPs, but it would be nice to get one again.