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[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 05:24 AM
The Godfather is dead, remember?

Also, pay no attention to that entire post with all of the BOUs; I was trying to bait a trap for Luneth because I skimmed past the part where he realized Wedge was clear. If Luneth wasn't trying to convince us to lynch Wedge, that whole post is worthless.

[M] Apollo
11-23-2012, 05:28 AM
Rydia;3169525']
Wakka;3169523']I don't agree that Cid is definitely town. So the mafia poisoned him - that doesn't stop him from being a serial killer.

Only if the mafia knew even then that there was a SK in play, which we can't be 100% certain of even now. I believe the SK speculation arose from the night phase where only Galuf died, after the kill order on Cid was sent in. Where's your information coming from?

Are you disputing the possibility that Cid (or anyone else) is a serial killer purely based on the fact that the Mafia targeted Cid before there was speculation that an SK existed? If so, that's nonsense.
There were four kills in one night, and a bunch of mafia have been killed at night. There's certainly another killer out there, and they could well be an SK.

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 05:36 AM
Leon;3169572']
Are you disputing the possibility that Cid (or anyone else) is a serial killer purely based on the fact that the Mafia targeted Cid before there was speculation that an SK existed? If so, that's nonsense.


Quite the contrary; I favour the SK hypothesis. What I'm disputing is that the mafia would be trying to kill a SK before any evidence regarding its existence surfaced.

[M] Apollo
11-23-2012, 05:39 AM
Rydia;3169531']Query for the longtime players: Has Jack of All Trades been used before? If so, we can safely assume all remaining roles are ones that have been in play prior to now. It would be bootless for Jiro to give us 2 new roles when the first one to die would alert us to the possibility of a second. One, I could see, for mindsmurf reasons. Not two.

There have been types of Jacks previously (I recall it being called the Inventor in one game). I think that is a dangerous assumption, we have already had Gladiator and Spy, both of which have not been player before. There are likely to be more new roles.


Rydia;3169571']The Godfather is dead, remember?

Also, pay no attention to that entire post with all of the BOUs; I was trying to bait a trap for Luneth because I skimmed past the part where he realized Wedge was clear. If Luneth wasn't trying to convince us to lynch Wedge, that whole post is worthless.

You suggested that the mafia have control over Stiltz, but it is inconceivable to imagine there being more than one godfather, or a lawyer, or even another made up role? Adding to what I said above Jiro is the creative type, and this does appear to be a role based mindsmurf (especially given the bus driver). I would expect more new roles.

[M] Apollo
11-23-2012, 05:46 AM
Rydia;3169573']
Leon;3169572']
Are you disputing the possibility that Cid (or anyone else) is a serial killer purely based on the fact that the Mafia targeted Cid before there was speculation that an SK existed? If so, that's nonsense.


Quite the contrary; I favour the SK hypothesis. What I'm disputing is that the mafia would be trying to kill a SK before any evidence regarding its existence surfaced.

Ah, fair enough. Although, Night 2 was evidence of another killing faction, so many deaths.
The mafia may have just targeted Cid because he was not a mafian, this action doesn't prove or disprove Cid being an SK. This is irrelevant to this point.
Also, if (pretty wild if, I know), if Faris is scum that appears innocent to regular cops, then the whole Cid being poisoned and you being the saviour is bogus (could mean you're in cahoots, could mean that they fooled you, who knows). While this is unlikely it is still possible.

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 05:48 AM
Gladiator and spy are in the mafia wiki; one would not try to pull a surprise by using a role whose existence we could be expected to be apprised of. Not impossible by any means, but I don't buy it.

Regarding duplicate roles, given that we are down to less than 50% of the original participants, it is statistically probable that a duplicate would have surfaced ere now were one to exist.

New roles: I raised the possibility specifically so that someone would promptly put it to bed. Why is this the only time I've ever raised a thought when it wasn't immediately pilloried? Do you people have some way of knowing when I'm trying to manipulate you? :stare:

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 05:56 AM
Leon;3169577']The mafia may have just targeted Cid because he was not a mafian, this action doesn't prove or disprove Cid being an SK. This is irrelevant to this point.


I wouldn't worry about the SK just yet anyways; There's still a fair enough chance the mafs will take the SK out for us.
I think there would have to be at least 5 mafia for a game with 23 players, and we've only taken out 3. Let's try to bag at least one more before worrying about the SK.

Jiro
11-23-2012, 06:02 AM
The game started with 25 players :mog:

[M] Apollo
11-23-2012, 06:02 AM
Rydia;3169579']Gladiator and spy are in the mafia wiki; one would not try to pull a surprise by using a role whose existence we could be expected to be apprised of. Not impossible by any means, but I don't buy it.

Sorry, I thought when you said "Has Jack of All Trades been used before? If so, we can safely assume all remaining roles are ones that have been in play prior to now" you were asking if roles (such as the Jack) had been used before on EoFF, not if they existed on the Wiki. My bad :shobon:


Rydia;3169579']Regarding duplicate roles, given that we are down to less than 50% of the original participants, it is statistically probable that a duplicate would have surfaced ere now were one to exist.
This is a fair call, all I'm saying is that one could arise in the next 50%.


Rydia;3169579']New roles: I raised the possibility specifically so that someone would promptly put it to bed. Why is this the only time I've ever raised a thought when it wasn't immediately pilloried? Do you people have some way of knowing when I'm trying to manipulate you? :stare:
With this many power roles, and Jiro being Jiro, I expect, nay, I demand there be new roles in play! :stare:

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 06:06 AM
The game started with 25 players :mog:

That doesn't change my thinking; if I were putting one of these together, I'd go with a maf:town ratio of 1:5, rounded up. The math is the same.

I'm not coming out and saying "only 2 more left guys" because I'm not a telepath. Just positing another hypothesis for the rest of the players, mafia and town alike, to fall on like the rabid wolves they truly are <3

[M] Apollo
11-23-2012, 06:09 AM
Rydia;3169580']
Leon;3169577']The mafia may have just targeted Cid because he was not a mafian, this action doesn't prove or disprove Cid being an SK. This is irrelevant to this point.


I wouldn't worry about the SK just yet anyways; There's still a fair enough chance the mafs will take the SK out for us.
I think there would have to be at least 5 mafia for a game with 23 players, and we've only taken out 3. Let's try to bag at least one more before worrying about the SK.

Agreed. My main point there was that there was no point to make there. I'm keeping my eyes open for that other killing faction, but we can't be sure who it is though, can we?

Or can we?
Faris. You've posted today, but who did you watch last night? WHY HAVE YOU NOT TOLD US?!!
Tell me you visited Setzer and saw who killed that scum!
Oh, if you did see, keep it mum for now. Let them kill off the mafia before we go ousting them. Who knows what their alignment will be.

[M] Walter - Smart Dad
11-23-2012, 06:26 AM
Leon;3169584']
Rydia;3169580']
Leon;3169577']The mafia may have just targeted Cid because he was not a mafian, this action doesn't prove or disprove Cid being an SK. This is irrelevant to this point.


I wouldn't worry about the SK just yet anyways; There's still a fair enough chance the mafs will take the SK out for us.
I think there would have to be at least 5 mafia for a game with 23 players, and we've only taken out 3. Let's try to bag at least one more before worrying about the SK.

Agreed. My main point there was that there was no point to make there. I'm keeping my eyes open for that other killing faction, but we can't be sure who it is though, can we?

Or can we?
Faris. You've posted today, but who did you watch last night? WHY HAVE YOU NOT TOLD US?!!
Tell me you visited Setzer and saw who killed that scum!
Oh, if you did see, keep it mum for now. Let them kill off the mafia before we go ousting them. Who knows what their alignment will be.

Of course I tracked Setzer last night due to Rydia telling us to lynch him yesterday, but I didn't come up with anything for a result. He is after all a freakin' ninja, so you'd expect he'd be all sneaky avoiding being tracked by someone like me. And I don't think you understand my role. I can't see what the person I've tracked does, or who's been targeting them. I'm only aware of who they targeted, and nothing else.

[M] Walter - Smart Dad
11-23-2012, 06:32 AM
And I didn't get to tell earlier because I was busy eating and partying with my folks.

[M] Apollo
11-23-2012, 06:41 AM
Ok, figured I'd recap on what Biggs did earlier and try to understand the night actions. I've just taken what Biggs wrote and copied some bits, but altered others where it was my opinion (or where new facts have been released). I'll add Biggs' summary here in spoilers, and mine below that.
Sorry if it is confusing. It is confusing.


Biggs;3168644']I'm going to try and make sense of all the kills now.

Night 1
Laguna - Serah was targeted by Yuffie for a kill, but Laguna was killed. Since it was Night 1 Laguna likely protected himself. The probable scenario is that the Bus Driver swapped Laguna and Serah, Serah got protection while Laguna got the bullet. That also explains why Serah never got a 'report' from Wedge.
I'm going to assume the mafia has two kills, the poison and a night kill. Or there are two mafias. Or mafia and SK. The other deaths don't make sense otherwise. On this night, one killer tried to shoot Nocits while Galuf poisoned Quistis.

Night 2
Quistis - Died of Galuf's poison
Serah - No clue. Standard mafia hit?
Kain - Again no clue.
Quina - Too many unexplained deaths this day for there to not be at least two killers out there.

Night 3
Galuf - This one is the hardest of all to explain. We have a vig (standard vig and daytime vig? seriously?) or something else is afoot. It's not a Paranoid Gun Owner, since we know he targeted Cid (assuming Faris is truthful). Rydia targeted Cid on Night 4 and lived to tell the tale.
How did one scum die this night and no town? So the mafia used their hit to poison Cid. Fine. But this night is sandwiched between nights with 4 and 3 deaths. Doesn't make any sense! Someone must have tried for Noctis again but why would the mafia try the same thing twice?

Night 4
Noctis - My guess here is Mafia Ninja. There are no Mafia Goons remember, so Ninja is a likely role they have.
Yuffie - I think the "second killer" killed Yuffie.
Refia - ?????


Night 1
Laguna - Serah was targeted by Yuffie for a kill, but Laguna was killed. Since it was Night 1 Laguna likely protected himself. The probable scenario is that the Bus Driver swapped Laguna and Serah, Serah got protection while Laguna got the bullet. That also explains why Serah never got a 'report' from Wedge.
I'm going to assume the mafia has two kills, the poison and a night kill. Or there are two mafias. Or mafia and SK. The other deaths don't make sense otherwise. On this night, one killer tried to shoot Nocits while Galuf poisoned Quistis.

Night 2
Quistis - Died of Galuf's poison
Serah - No clue. Standard mafia hit? - IMO likely to be mafia hit due to 'confirmed' status as gov.
Kain, Quina - No clue. Would mean that there are two other killing factions. Yuffie shot night one, Sazh never shot and Biggs didn't shoot until later on. That's three townies with guns. I'm inclined to believe that at least one of these two deaths was third party based on the odds. (which raises the question, if one is an SK like third party, what was the other killer? - I think it may have been another one shot given the lack of unexplained deaths later on)

Night 3
Galuf - I'm inclined to believe that this was the same 3rd party/vigilante. Galuf would have targeted someone this night, either it was Cid (who was then saved by Rydia), or it was Noctis or Yuffie.

Night 4
Noctis - Likely killed by the Mafia ninja, but could have been poisoned on night 3.
Yuffie - Either killed by the 'other killer', killed by the mafia, or poisoned on night 3.
Refia - Shot by Biggs the Paranoid Gun Owner.

Night 5
Leila - Likely killed by the mafia before she had the chance to get an innocent (guilty) result on some scum.
Setzer - Probably killed by the 'other killer'.


Any thoughts/corrections? (I understand that I've put a lot of possibilities for Night 4, but I think we need to take all possibilities into account and go with the most likely one)

[M] Walter - Smart Dad
11-23-2012, 06:48 AM
Your thoughts on Night 5 seems quite possible. In fact, I'll have to say that I agree with you 100%. I doubt a mafia would target one of their own, hence Leila was their main target for last night. As for Setzer, he is likely the target of another killing faction, maybe it's an SK, but who knows. You have brought up a possibility of a 2nd mafia earlier, have you not? How can we know there's more than one mafia to deal with?

[M] Apollo
11-23-2012, 06:48 AM
Faris;3169585']Of course I tracked Setzer last night due to Rydia telling us to lynch him yesterday, but I didn't come up with anything for a result. He is after all a freakin' ninja, so you'd expect he'd be all sneaky avoiding being tracked by someone like me. And I don't think you understand my role. I can't see what the person I've tracked does, or who's been targeting them. I'm only aware of who they targeted, and nothing else.

Didn't realise you only saw who they saw, and not saw who saw them as well...
Sorry, missed that part of the ninja role, just got a little excited. :shobon:

Oh well, let's see what Wedge has for us then.

[M] Apollo
11-23-2012, 07:01 AM
Faris;3169592']You have brought up a possibility of a 2nd mafia earlier, have you not? How can we know there's more than one mafia to deal with?

This will be difficult to know. Given the number of scum down so far, odds are if there is a second mafia, either both mafias know this, or we've completely wiped out one mafia (it would be unfair for each mafia to have more than say, 3 members each).
I don't know how we'd find out if there is more than one mafia though, as we don't know who they're loyal to. I suppose if there is another godfather, finding that godfather would answer that question.

The only other reason I'd suspect a second mafia over another third party killer at this point is the possibility that Jiro wanted to put in a second mafia, as there rarely is one, and this game probably had enough people for it to be feasible.
Though this is unlikely IMO, and there is no real evidence for it.

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 07:07 AM
Can Cultists or Masons have a killing role?

[M] Apollo
11-23-2012, 07:12 AM
No reason why they can't. Could have started with one, could've recruited one.

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 08:10 AM
Sorry I've been away. I'm going to make this short and sweet.

I suspect Relm and Penelo the most. They've both been dodgy and they both followed gleefully into the lynch of Biggs yesterday.

Clearly we have at least two killers. One of them may be pro-town, but my guess is that neither of them are. I strongly think that they are Penelo and Relm.

Biggs suspected Relm and he paid the price for it. Let's not make that mistake today.

##Vote: Relm

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 09:05 AM
Rikku;3169614']Sorry I've been away. I'm going to make this short and sweet.

I suspect Relm and Penelo the most. They've both been dodgy and they both followed gleefully into the lynch of Biggs yesterday.

I think any inconsistencies in Relm's behaviour can be explained away by being subbed out for a new player.

You're benefiting from that same line of reasoning, so I wouldn't push it too hard.

[M] Anise
11-23-2012, 09:07 AM
Rydia;3169525']Only if the mafia knew even then that there was a SK in play, which we can't be 100% certain of even now. I believe the SK speculation arose from the night phase where only Galuf died, after the kill order on Cid was sent in. Where's your information coming from?

Indeed, we cannot be certain that there is a SK in play. The only information I have is that there has been at least two night kills for most of the nights so far - what I am assuming is a mafia kill, and then a mystery third party killer. Any one of us could be the third party killer, and that includes Cid.
It'd be silly for me to say that Cid is definitely a SK/whatevs, I have no proof of that, all I am saying is that we can't clear Cid as innocent at this point, and it would be silly to disregard him from our suspect lists.




Penelo;3169527']Wedge and Leila also voted for Biggs, and Leila was a insane cop townie, meaning Wedge is also town. Effectively, Townies also voted for Biggs. It weren't some mafia ploy to lynch him!

So, two confirmed town voted for Biggs, that makes the rest of you town too? Nope, not buying it. You are right though, it wasn't a mafia ploy. The mafia can very easily take advantage of the disorganisation of the town in situations like those and throw in a few votes with little thought. After all, the town will be claiming to have gotten "caught up in the moment", so the mafia can pull that same excuse.

You also asked us to not read too much into the votes yesterday. Why is that? The lynch being a crazy thing started by Psy is not a good enough excuse to disregard your (and Luneth's) only vote of the game. :p You're not giving me good vibes here, man.

[M] Anise
11-23-2012, 09:08 AM
I never got the impression that Relm had been subbed out at all this game, but I could be entirely wrong. xD

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 10:28 AM
Rydia;3169623']
Rikku;3169614']Sorry I've been away. I'm going to make this short and sweet.

I suspect Relm and Penelo the most. They've both been dodgy and they both followed gleefully into the lynch of Biggs yesterday.

I think any inconsistencies in Relm's behaviour can be explained away by being subbed out for a new player.

You're benefiting from that same line of reasoning, so I wouldn't push it too hard.
Fair enough. And since the town needs the help and I don't feel like posting that much more in this game I think I'll just lay it all out there.

I am the Gunsmith. Each night I investigate a player and find out if they are carrying a gun.

Night 1 - No action due to inactivity.
Night 2 - Quistis does not have a gun.
Night 3 - Penelo has a gun.
Night 4 - Relm has a gun.

Some pro-town roles also carry guns, such as Vig, Cop, Suspicious Townie, etc. Even Gunsmith. But we killed all those other roles already and I'm the gunsmith. I am very certain Penelo and Relm are both scumbags and need to be taken down.

I will only be voting for Relm or Penelo today. I'll let the rest of you figure out which is best. If you want any more in-depth analysis, see all of Biggs's massive posts that you fools lynched him for (both Relm and Penelo voted to lynch him by the way so now look what you get).

I will probably not post again unless it is to answer a direct question or switch my vote to Penelo if I can't get enough votes for Relm. But seriously, lynch Relm. It will make me happy.

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 10:48 AM
It would be so Jiro to sub Psy back in as Relm and Del as Rikku for another showdown.

Jiro
11-23-2012, 10:57 AM
Rydia;3169632']It would be so Jiro to sub Psy back in as Relm and Del as Rikku for another showdown.

It would so be me to do that, wouldn't it? Except Del Murder already said he wanted to enjoy his Turkey Day and Psychotic has won enough duels to want anything more from this bout :greenie: There's also the claim that Leon is already Psychotic you know :shobon:

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 10:59 AM
Rydia;3169632']It would be so Jiro to sub Psy back in as Relm and Del as Rikku for another showdown.

It would so be me to do that, wouldn't it? Except Del Murder already said he wanted to enjoy his Turkey Day and Psychotic has won enough duels to want anything more from this bout :greenie: There's also the claim that Leon is already Psychotic you know :shobon:

I spy with my little eye a red herring

[M] Apollo
11-23-2012, 11:05 AM
Jiro is lying. I have been replaced by ONE MILLION DEL MURDERS

[M] Apollo
11-23-2012, 11:07 AM
Luneth is the real Psychotic and everyone else is also Del Murders.

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 11:09 AM
I love how this game is making us all question EVERYTHING

Jiro
11-23-2012, 11:11 AM
Nothing is True.

Everything is Permitted.

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 11:14 AM
I didn't buy it when Psy tried to make us kill Del, and I don't buy it when Del's trying to make us kill Psy.

##Vote: Wakka

[M] Apollo
11-23-2012, 11:21 AM
Wakka;3169624']
Penelo;3169527']Wedge and Leila also voted for Biggs, and Leila was a insane cop townie, meaning Wedge is also town. Effectively, Townies also voted for Biggs. It weren't some mafia ploy to lynch him!

So, two confirmed town voted for Biggs, that makes the rest of you town too? Nope, not buying it. You are right though, it wasn't a mafia ploy. The mafia can very easily take advantage of the disorganisation of the town in situations like those and throw in a few votes with little thought. After all, the town will be claiming to have gotten "caught up in the moment", so the mafia can pull that same excuse.

You also asked us to not read too much into the votes yesterday. Why is that? The lynch being a crazy thing started by Psy is not a good enough excuse to disregard your (and Luneth's) only vote of the game. :p You're not giving me good vibes here, man.

Wait, woah. I missed that one by Penelo.
Are you saying that Wedge and Leila were townies and therefore effectively only townies voted for Biggs? Just because Psy told everyone to vote for Biggs doesn't mean that no mafia were involved.

I'm going to put some more thought into this one, but I really don't like that claim in the slightest.

[M] Apollo
11-23-2012, 11:23 AM
Rikku;3169631']Night 1 - No action due to inactivity.
Night 2 - Quistis does not have a gun.
Night 3 - Penelo has a gun.
Night 4 - Relm has a gun.
What did you do Night 5 (last night)?

[M] Apollo
11-23-2012, 11:26 AM
Rydia;3169640']I didn't buy it when Psy tried to make us kill Del, and I don't buy it when Del's trying to make us kill Psy.

##Vote: Wakka

Wait what?
Wakka is Del? I thought I was Del. I thought everyone was Dels!

Seriously though, I missed this one. Please explain.

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 11:28 AM
No, Wakka is not Del.

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 11:29 AM
Leon;3169637']Luneth is the real Psychotic and everyone else is also Del Murders.What?! You dare address the greatest mafia player of all time? :colbert:

Is what I would say if I was him. :greenie:

:colbert: :greenie:

Or is it?

:greenie: :colbert:

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 11:31 AM
Good work, Rikku, though! I would also like more results. I also have to ask why you picked the relatively quiet Relm and Penelo as opposed to the noisemakers like Wedge, Noctis, etc.

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
11-23-2012, 11:32 AM
oh hey del good to see you again :aimkiss: that must have been some dry ass turkey to make you run back to mafia so quickly :redface:

[M] Apollo
11-23-2012, 11:33 AM
Everyone else is blind Luneth, only I can see.

Except for what Rydia is going on about. No idea there.


Rydia;3169645']No, Wakka is not Del.


Leon;3169644']Seriously though, I missed this one. Please explain.

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 11:35 AM
Leon;3169649']Except for what Rydia is going on about. No idea there.


You're not meant to. Tell the town, and I tell the mafia.

[M] Apollo
11-23-2012, 11:36 AM
Only Wedge and Cid have not posted today.
Which means either someone hasn't come told us they received Wedge's report, Cid received Wedge's report, a dead person did (again), or he's lying.
Could Wedge please appear and explain this time (or someone reveal the report, that would be nice too).

[M] Apollo
11-23-2012, 11:39 AM
Rydia;3169650']
Leon;3169649']Except for what Rydia is going on about. No idea there.


You're not meant to. Tell the town, and I tell the mafia.

Ok then.
I'm gonna let that one sit with me for a while.

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 12:12 PM
If things play out the way I'm hoping, I'll be gloating about it tomorrow, so you'll find out.

[M] Anise
11-23-2012, 12:46 PM
Luneth;3169647']Good work, Rikku, though! I would also like more results. I also have to ask why you picked the relatively quiet Relm and Penelo as opposed to the noisemakers like Wedge, Noctis, etc.

im guessing rikku was replaced today, so i dont know if we'll get an answer about this.

[M] Walter - Smart Dad
11-23-2012, 02:11 PM
Rikku;3169631']
Rydia;3169623']
Rikku;3169614']Sorry I've been away. I'm going to make this short and sweet.

I suspect Relm and Penelo the most. They've both been dodgy and they both followed gleefully into the lynch of Biggs yesterday.

I think any inconsistencies in Relm's behaviour can be explained away by being subbed out for a new player.

You're benefiting from that same line of reasoning, so I wouldn't push it too hard.
Fair enough. And since the town needs the help and I don't feel like posting that much more in this game I think I'll just lay it all out there.

I am the Gunsmith. Each night I investigate a player and find out if they are carrying a gun.

Night 1 - No action due to inactivity.
Night 2 - Quistis does not have a gun.
Night 3 - Penelo has a gun.
Night 4 - Relm has a gun.

Some pro-town roles also carry guns, such as Vig, Cop, Suspicious Townie, etc. Even Gunsmith. But we killed all those other roles already and I'm the gunsmith. I am very certain Penelo and Relm are both scumbags and need to be taken down.

I will only be voting for Relm or Penelo today. I'll let the rest of you figure out which is best. If you want any more in-depth analysis, see all of Biggs's massive posts that you fools lynched him for (both Relm and Penelo voted to lynch him by the way so now look what you get).

I will probably not post again unless it is to answer a direct question or switch my vote to Penelo if I can't get enough votes for Relm. But seriously, lynch Relm. It will make me happy.

Glad to see you back from a long absense of day activity, Rikku! I'm also glad to know that you're a gunsmith, so it's good to see that you have some reports for us. Though, it disappoints me that you don't have something for last night, but I can forgive you if you either had forgotten, or didn't get something. As for Penelo and Relm, we should be wary of both considering they both own a gun. If I recall, didn't Relm tried to daykill Blank a couple days ago, but ultimately failed? This left a lasting impression on me that she does have some killing role, and I think she can kill, especially during the nights, and her failed daykill shows us that she can definitely nightkill. I think she needs to be lynched so we can stop her killings. She can definitely kill.

##Vote: Relm

[M] Anise
11-23-2012, 03:09 PM
i dont know if the daykill on biggs was a serious attempt at anything

Penelo and relm have been acting suspicious, rikku's claim only backs this up. Relm has been all game as biggs pointed out and penelo has said some weird things today. Biggs was a good player with some decent insight into the players so im likely to believe his thoughts.

but i am gonna wait for a bit and see if wedge pops up with his investigation. im guessing none of us got a report? if he comes up with nothing i will throw down my vote.


remember guys its easy for a majority lynch to happen right now, not something we need. :)

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 03:28 PM
And there was little old me thinking you got replaced HC. Interesting.

I want to see what Penelo and Relm have to say before jumping into voting for one of them yet. I'm highly suspicious of their guns but town roles can have guns too, so I want to at least hear them out. If neither comes back before the day ends then I will put down a vote.

Jiro
11-23-2012, 04:15 PM
[M] Relm (3) - Balthier, Rikku, Faris
[M] Wakka (1) - Rydia

Time remaining: dunno figure it out I'mma nap.

[M] Adama
11-23-2012, 06:03 PM
It's the weekend! I can be more active. Thankfully. :)

I suppose now is as good a time as any other, but I am a FBI Agent and this means that my and everyone else's theory on a Serial Killer is correct, because I would be ineffective otherwise. This role means that I only strike up "guilty" if I am targeting the serial killer, everyone else is "innocent" even if they are mafia or not.

So far, I've investigated most nights, though I was away for night two and here are my results:

Night One - Investigated Yuffie (25 players, it's a crapshoot) and came up innocent.

Night Three - Investigated Wakka, again came up innocent.

Night Four - Investigated Wedge and got a guilty result.


Now this is my first time playing Mafia, so I was unsure what it was exactly, explaining why I haven't posted much in day one. Day two I was away and day three I had nothing really to go on except the Yuffie result. However, night four was a revelation to me, Wedge turned up guilty. Now, I might be wrong, but Wedge turned up innocent in Leila's insane investigations. Just because he's innocent to the cop and not Mafia. He might be third-party.

I'm fairly certain cops can't deduce serial killers. As an FBI agent, that's my special ability as it were. Leila can only deduce between town/Mafia.

And as for the whole "Biggs" scenario, as I have said countless times, he didn't make himself appear non-scummy. he rolelaimed twice, once to avoid being lynched. He seemed as good a vote as any other.

[M] Anise
11-23-2012, 06:37 PM
You bring up some points about wedge's innocence that i will admit i neever considered like cops possibly not being able to identify a SK when investigating. also your claim would explain why you have a gun if rikku is to be believed.

i am confused about one thing though.


Wedge;3167816']Night 1: Investigated Laguna with Serah to receive (that turned up nothing).
Night 2: Investigated Faris with Quina to receive
Night 3: Investigated Rydia with Yuffie to receive

i couldnt see his night 4 claim anywhere. but, none of these people have been killed except from laguna (but the bus driver prolly switched laguna/serah so serah should have been killed) why would wedge make up investigations like that if they dont align with his actual targets? if anyone tracked him theyd see that they dont line up. people have definitely died because of 3rd party kills so they definitely werent blocked.

also if you got a guilty claim on wedge why did you not push for it yesterday instead of falling into the bandwagon on biggs? instead you let him off the hook and let him possibly take another life.

[M] Adama
11-23-2012, 06:47 PM
Because Wedge is smurfing with our minds. To answer his inconsistencies with his targeting, I can't say, I'm not Wedge. But if the Mafia are smurfing with our minds it's fairly easy for Wedge to throw up curveballs like that.

As for not throwing this up earlier, at first, I wasn't exactly sure it was even correct, because it came out of the blue. Until then, I was suspicious of Wedge being either a terrible cop or a clever Mafia. When I got the "guilty" verdict, I wasn't exactly sure if I had a flavour attached to the FBI Agent thing, like how Leila was an insane cop. I can't really investigate myself to see my flavour, so I basically just had to deliberate for quite a while thinking "is it really Wedge? And I naive or paranoid?". Also, by the time I noticed my results lying there unopened in my notifications, the whole Psychotic thing was going crazy. It was so late in the day to announce my results I thought it better to just wait for the next day, and even then see everyone else's reactions first before posting results (I'm not of fan of instantly posting results first thing, not everyone reads through the entire thing).

Should I have posted my results earlier? Possibly, but then no one is perfect. I hope that clears things up Wakka!

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 06:50 PM
Leon;3169643']
Rikku;3169631']Night 1 - No action due to inactivity.
Night 2 - Quistis does not have a gun.
Night 3 - Penelo has a gun.
Night 4 - Relm has a gun.
What did you do Night 5 (last night)?
Sorry, I got my nights mixed up. My night 5 action (last night) was on Relm. Apparently I didn't have a Night 4 action due to inactivity. Sorry for not being as useful as I could have been.

[M] Anise
11-23-2012, 06:59 PM
Okay Penelo, thanks for your explanation.

There are so many inconsistencies with everything, i don't even know what to do with the wedge situation now. its a bit silly for any killing faction to put themselves so firmly on everyones radar, but i suppose its kept him alive for the past 4 days.

[M] Adama
11-23-2012, 07:05 PM
The whole point of the serial killer is to be a fine balance between being hidden enough to not being voted, while also being present enough so people don't kill you for being inactive.

Wedge is very clever, by claiming cop (and then doing nothing by it) he's pacified the town, while also appeasing the Mafia as it would be in their best interest to keep him alive as a distraction and talking point.

You know what, I forgot the most important thing.

##VOTE: Wedge. And I'm sure of my vote this time, it's not wavering.

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 07:06 PM
Penelo;3169695']It's the weekend! I can be more active. Thankfully. :)

I suppose now is as good a time as any other, but I am a FBI Agent and this means that my and everyone else's theory on a Serial Killer is correct, because I would be ineffective otherwise. This role means that I only strike up "guilty" if I am targeting the serial killer, everyone else is "innocent" even if they are mafia or not.

So far, I've investigated most nights, though I was away for night two and here are my results:

Night One - Investigated Yuffie (25 players, it's a crapshoot) and came up innocent.

Night Three - Investigated Wakka, again came up innocent.

Night Four - Investigated Wedge and got a guilty result.


Now this is my first time playing Mafia, so I was unsure what it was exactly, explaining why I haven't posted much in day one. Day two I was away and day three I had nothing really to go on except the Yuffie result. However, night four was a revelation to me, Wedge turned up guilty. Now, I might be wrong, but Wedge turned up innocent in Leila's insane investigations. Just because he's innocent to the cop and not Mafia. He might be third-party.

I'm fairly certain cops can't deduce serial killers. As an FBI agent, that's my special ability as it were. Leila can only deduce between town/Mafia.

And as for the whole "Biggs" scenario, as I have said countless times, he didn't make himself appear non-scummy. he rolelaimed twice, once to avoid being lynched. He seemed as good a vote as any other.
Sorry, that was a nice try but it is full of holes.

1. Why would you not vote for the person you found guilty a night before? Clearly you are not insane since you got Innocent result from Yuffie. Even if Biggs was acting like a raving luntic it should not have stopped you from voting the person you found guilty considering your entire role is to find one person and you found that person.
2. Why would an Insane Cop get a Guilty (aka Innocent) result from a SK?
3. Who did you investigate Night 5? You left that little tidbit out.

If you really are the FBI Agent then you screwed the town royally by voting Biggs and not Wedge yesterday. That being said, Wedge has been dodgy all game about his role and somehow none of his 'reports' have ever been verified. So he needs to explain himself.

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 07:08 PM
Penelo's claim is interesting. It explains the gun and it explains who has been killing the mafia. It would also explain what the hell is going on with Wedge. Something is up with that guy, I think we can all agree that. Hmm.
Wakka has not done much good. You commented on his vote for Yuffie but I also find his other votes interesting. He voted for Noctis for being irritating and today he has voted for Penelo who has been inactive. To put this in other words he has voted for people who are unlikely to be actually lynched for very poor reasoning.
This was my original reasoning for suspecting Wakka. I wanted to give him time to ease himself into the game and yet despite claiming to be replaced (and having much better grammar - temporarily!) you will note he has reverted back to his old self. I don't think he actually was replaced.

Right now I've got Wakka and Relm as my big 2 for mafia. I don't know if I can trust Penelo as she has seemed very dodgy today but the claim does explain the riddle that is Wedge.

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 07:11 PM
in fact
##vote: Wakka

Let's shake a few branches and see what falls out, shall we? ;)

[M] Adama
11-23-2012, 07:12 PM
I completely forgot about Night Five! Sorry Rikku. I investigated Relm, and got a innocent SK result. And about insane/not insane, remember I'm still new to this! I can't exactly make connections that well.

I suppose an insane cop could get a guilty (innocent) result because he is the SK, because Stilz could have just randomised the result because he is the SK. Were it to display "unidentifiable" or something to that effect it would be pretty suspicious. By randomising the SK's results, it makes him harder to kill. An SK is very hard to play as, seeing how he's by himself so Stilz could have given him some perks.

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 07:14 PM
In my opinion Penelo does not deserve credibility due to her vote switcing yesterday. A Cop or FBI Agent cannot be wavering in their vote because they need to establish credibility with the town, especially when they get a guilty result and their sanity is established..

At this point, if Wedge is the SK then he can't kill Penelo or else that would expose him. So if he wants to win this game the end game scenario would be hemself, Penelo, and 1 or 2 others. At that point we should know enough about how much BS his reporting role is and we'd be able to make the right choice.

Penelo has posted a nice little excuse on why she has a gun, but not Relm. So my vote stays.

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 07:16 PM
I dunno, it'd make sense for the cop to find SKs innocent if we have a FBI agent, presuming that the cop is just used for the detection of mafia.

I agree with Rikku though. We did have some good reasons to vote for Biggs - and I will argue to the death with anyone who says we shouldn't have done that, because absolutely we should - but you should've stuck with Wedge. I don't know if that's scumminess or just general poor play. (sorry, nothing personal)

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 07:22 PM
Oh, and Rikku isn't a gunsmith, by the way.

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 07:23 PM
Luneth;3169717']Oh, and Rikku isn't a gunsmith, by the way.
Yes I am.

[M] Adama
11-23-2012, 07:24 PM
What's your reasoning Luneth?

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 07:27 PM
We'll see. ;)

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 07:28 PM
Yep, that's real helpful.

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 07:29 PM
Because nobody would investigate Penelo on night 3 because she was a nonentity. Why the fuck would you do that? You wouldn't?

And given how butthurt Del was over his lynching, oh, he just happened to get a role which investigated two bandwagoners on him?

Bullshit.

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 07:31 PM
Mind you, it was a good ruse because I'm fairly sure Penelo is full of shit the more I think about it.

But my little Vengeful Townie, you're going to be lynched at my hands twice :aimkiss:

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
11-23-2012, 07:32 PM
Hooo boy. Okay I think there are a few things that need to be adressed because some of the stuff that's been posted...xD oh man. first up...


I'm at a turkey day thjng so i can't write too much out but, i find relm to be more than they appear. They were dead set on biggs yesterday even after he claimed. For now,

##vote: relm

Well wether or not there's more to me than appears is for everyone else to decide, but your reasoning for your vote is so wrong that I still can't believe you actually read any of the thread yesterday. Biggs was the one who was set on ME, he slapped the vote on me and his reasoning was so poor that I didn't bother to seriously address it at first. When I did finally get around to pointing out why his reasoning was so poor, the best response he could come up with was, and I quote, "poop". His roleclaim about being a vengeful townie was bunk and clearly so, a nice potential move by a mafia to put the fear in people of voting against him.

I "went after him" with about 10 minutes left in the day, because at the time so close to the end of the day, there was a 3-way tie on the voting between him, wedge and me. Obviously I'm not going to vote for myself, and as scummy as Wedge seems to me all things considered, with both of them potentially lying abour their roles or telling the truth, on the minute chance that Wedge is actually a cop and is just not very good at it it's still more beneficial to the town for him to be here rather than Biggs was. So please tell me how I wasn't perfectly justified in my actions. :redface: add to the fact that almost everyone online at the time was gleefully jumping aboard the "Help Psy live his dreams" train, and well. right, moving on...



Sorry I've been away. I'm going to make this short and sweet.

I suspect Relm and Penelo the most. They've both been dodgy and they both followed gleefully into the lynch of Biggs yesterday.

Clearly we have at least two killers. One of them may be pro-town, but my guess is that neither of them are. I strongly think that they are Penelo and Relm.

Biggs suspected Relm and he paid the price for it. Let's not make that mistake today.

##Vote: Relm



So nice of you to finally show up and jump into bed immediately with Balthier! That's a nice touch and totally not worrying at all. :greenie: I like how you seem to believe that Biggs demise was entirely my doing. I wish I had that kind of clout in mafia, if I did Psy would be nowhere near as full of his mafia self as he is let me tell you. But as I already pointed out in response to balthier, Biggs was the one going after me all day, I had no intention to vote for him until all the very end of the day, for the reasons stated above. Also, Gunsmith is a nice roleclaim! It would be cool if us townies could prove you wrong but you picked pretty well. Quite convenient that the people you steamed into the thread out of nowhere to go after both supposedly have guns, too. I also truly believe that you spent the whole game doing nothing but investigating people until today, too. That seems like a very legitimate claim.

Not quite as legitmate as you being full of shit, though, mr thanksgiving. Look I know you missed out on getting Psy and you're trying to take it out on me, and as you said that would make you very happy, but come on handsome. How many dead bodies are you going to leave in your wake before you stop the lies? Because they've gotten you so far in this game already. :aimkiss: and finally, saving the best for last...


Glad to see you back from a long absense of day activity, Rikku! I'm also glad to know that you're a gunsmith, so it's good to see that you have some reports for us. Though, it disappoints me that you don't have something for last night, but I can forgive you if you either had forgotten, or didn't get something. As for Penelo and Relm, we should be wary of both considering they both own a gun. If I recall, didn't Relm tried to daykill Blank a couple days ago, but ultimately failed? This left a lasting impression on me that she does have some killing role, and I think she can kill, especially during the nights, and her failed daykill shows us that she can definitely nightkill. I think she needs to be lynched so we can stop her killings. She can definitely kill.

##Vote: Relm

Glad to see someone else jumping into bed with people on the back of diddlysquat evidence! I mean, seriously, what. None of this post makes any sense whatsoever. What exactly is it, Faris me old dear, that makes you see the claim and swallow the claim without a hint of doubt, in this crazy mindsmurf mafia game of all games? What do YOU know abour Rikku that built that level of trust up, hmm? :greenie: And as for the rest of it xD are you actually serious? Did you not read the rage of Stiltz when the day vig died? SOMEONE ALWAYS MAKES A JOKE DAYKILL AND THIS TIME IT WOULD HAVE BEEN REAL BUT NOW IT CAN NEVER HAPPEN etc. Even Biggs himself posted that it was a joke attempt once Stiltz/Jiro whichever came in and said it was horseshit. But yet somehow, a joke attempt at a daykill convinces you that I have the ability to night kill? I was going to ask if you were really that easy to convince, but then I remembered HO HO HO RIKKU SAID SHE IS A GUNSMITH OKAY I BELIEVE IT. I was actually glad the town had still had you around because I was becoming convinced you were town and that you were one of the smarter players in the game, but you've just steve'd all over that. I don't even care if your vote stays on me, but for the love of god please come back and tell me you were joking, because I don't want to believe you've just done that in seriousness. I can't. Please. :(

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 07:35 PM
Luneth;3169723']Because nobody would investigate Penelo on night 3 because she was a nonentity. Why the fuck would you do that? You wouldn't?

And given how butthurt Del was over his lynching, oh, he just happened to get a role which investigated two bandwagoners on him?

Bullshit.
Ok, I don't know if this is allowed or not, but the night actions for Nights 2 and 3 were randomized by Jiro. I was not playing the account at the time. Not sure why he did not randomize a Night 4 action, and it actually threw me off a bit because it made me think last night was Night 4. Blame Jiro.

The only action I took with this account was to investigate Relm, because I thought she was suspicious based on the game so far.

Also, Penelo has come back roleclaiming a role that carries a gun. Isn't that at least some confirmation? She's either FBI Agent or scum now. Her fate is set.

Are you mafia, Luneth? I refuse to believe you are actually this thick.

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 07:38 PM
I'm not reading that wall of text, Relm. Did you claim a role in there somewhere that carries a gun?

[M] Adama
11-23-2012, 07:41 PM
Rikku;3169726'] Are you mafia, Luneth? I refuse to believe you are actually this thick.

Play nicely now Rikku :cool:

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 07:43 PM
I said I refuse to believe it. That is nice!

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 07:44 PM
Rikku;3169726']Ok, I don't know if this is allowed or not, but the night actions for Nights 2 and 3 were randomized by Jiro. I was not playing the account at the time. Not sure why he did not randomize a Night 4 action, and it actually threw me off a bit because it made me think last night was Night 4. Blame Jiro.

The only action I took with this account was to investigate Relm, because I thought she was suspicious based on the game so far.

Also, Penelo has come back roleclaiming a role that carries a gun. Isn't that at least some confirmation? She's either FBI Agent or scum now. Her fate is set.

Are you mafia, Luneth? I refuse to believe you are actually this thick.So he randomised some night actions and not others? Well how convienient for you that the situation changes depending on what suits you best! :monocle:

I think you got lucky with Penelo. Good job. We'll lynch her... at some point. Right now I'm more interested in you.

Also, really? Am I mafia? I refuse to believe you're actually this thick sweetie :greenie:

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
11-23-2012, 07:45 PM
Yes I did, I'm the sniper of love and I've been gleefully impregnating every member of the town every night with my long barrel. :excited:

[M] Adama
11-23-2012, 07:46 PM
I shudder to think...

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 07:52 PM
Luneth;3169730']So he randomised some night actions and not others? Well how convienient for you that the situation changes depending on what suits you best! :monocle:

I think you got lucky with Penelo. Good job. We'll lynch her... at some point. Right now I'm more interested in you.

Also, really? Am I mafia? I refuse to believe you're actually this thick sweetie :greenie:
Look, man, I can't explain it. All I know is what was in my inbox when I took over this account.

Getting lucky? Seriously? Why would I take a shot in the dark like that when it could so easily backfire?

You never answered my question, sweetie.

[M] Adama
11-23-2012, 07:55 PM
So whoa whoa whoa. Stop. Why did you investigate me then Rikku?

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 07:56 PM
I'm sorry, but I can't explain that because I wasn't playing this account at the time. Also, I think it was random anyway.

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 07:57 PM
Rikku;3169733']
Luneth;3169730']So he randomised some night actions and not others? Well how convienient for you that the situation changes depending on what suits you best! :monocle:

I think you got lucky with Penelo. Good job. We'll lynch her... at some point. Right now I'm more interested in you.

Also, really? Am I mafia? I refuse to believe you're actually this thick sweetie :greenie:
Look, man, I can't explain it. All I know is what was in my inbox when I took over this account.

Getting lucky? Seriously? Why would I take a shot in the dark like that when it could so easily backfire?

You never answered my question, sweetie.Because you don't care about backfiring. You want vengeance. And you will crown it off by coming after me. I know your games. I am heading you off at the pass.

You're going to find out my role very soon. It's not scum. It's... haha... well... you'll see. Feel free to track me tonight, Faris. And you, you can feel free to "gunsmith" me :greenie:

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 08:00 PM
Well, Rikku's definitely not Del Murder, then.

Rikku is British. Nice try with the -ize ending, though.

[M] Adama
11-23-2012, 08:01 PM
Well, whoever was playing as Rikku then is a right telg.

If the whole gunsmith thing is true, just blindfiring such an important role is just unreliable..

[M] Adama
11-23-2012, 08:03 PM
Actually Rydia, whoever is active right now probably isn't American. I imagine our American friends are stuffing their faces full of turkey right now! :p

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 08:06 PM
Penelo;3169740']If the whole gunsmith thing is true, just blindfiring such an important role is just unreliable..Oh you would say that. And you fell for his sick little games!

Well if you like games, here's one. The only way you will convince me you are town is if you vote for Wakka. Tick tock, Penelo~

OH IT'S GOOD TO BE BACK

MMM

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 08:07 PM
American Thanksgiving was yesterday, not today. That's a non-sequitur.

[M] Adama
11-23-2012, 08:11 PM
Whoops! Forgot. Oh well, maybe they are recovering from eating?

(I'm trying to salvage what dignity I have left :cry:)

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 08:17 PM
I think goading us into going after the SK at this phase did that admirably.

The mafia wants the SK dead as badly as they want town. If there is an SK in play instead of a town-aligned night killer, it behooves the town to try to get the mafs to take her out. Why waste our lynch when we can waste their nightkill? The mafs would be just as well-served taking out a town-aligned nightkiller as they would be in taking out the SK.

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 08:20 PM
Yep. Regardless of whether or not Penelo is telling the truth, Wedge just became "not our problem".

So I'm interested to see where Penelo will put her vote now ;)

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 08:26 PM
Oh, the SK is still our problem, just not a critically important one until later; say, we're down to 6 or fewer players or we get 2 consecutive nights with only one kill, which would signal the absence of one night-killing faction.

If our second night-killer is town-aligned or the SK, we'll know when they die.

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 08:26 PM
I'm not after the SK, I'm after that gun-carrying lunatic Relm. The SK is either Penelo or Wedge at this point based on Penelo's claim.

Luneth, I appreciate what you are trying to do but I just don't have time for this today. I only subbed in to help the town and I have no vendetta.

If you don't believe me, vote for me. If you believe me, vote for Relm (note that she has not yet claimed a legit gun-carrying role to answer to my accusation). If you beleive both me and Penelo, vote for Wedge.

[M] Walter - Smart Dad
11-23-2012, 08:31 PM
I'm keeping my vote on Relm based on her reaction to our accusation against her. :kakapo: She's gone all defensive and not telling us what her role could be, other than being a "sniper of love."

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 08:31 PM
Okay, Rikku, we will call it a truce for today. TOMORROW WILL BE JUDGMENT DAY! 2.

I don't believe you or Penelo :shobon: I think Wakka is mafia so he's my boy right now.

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
11-23-2012, 08:31 PM
I haven't claimed a legit gun carrying role to answer your accusation because your accusation is a load of shit and so is your roleclaim mr. thanksgiving. like I said before, it's a lovely and convenient roleclaim for you to carry out your agenda of revenge, but it's still a crock. :aimkiss:

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 08:31 PM
Do not under any circumstances vote for Wedge; he's either one of us, or a lower-priority target.

Even if he is the SK, we had two night kills last night, meaning the mafs are still definitely in play and might kill him for us. They're pretty much obliged to do their best to do so even knowing full well it's what we want them to do.

P.S. At this point it's pretty much safe to point out that my earlier question about masons and cultists is a red herring. It didn't work.

[M] Walter - Smart Dad
11-23-2012, 08:34 PM
Yeah, I don't think mason or a cult are in play. If they were, we'd have one dead by now.

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 08:36 PM
Faris;3169768']Yeah, I don't think mason or a cult are in play. If they were, we'd have one dead by now.That's just what a cultist would say!

And oh look

Look what colour your hair is...

COINCIDENCE? :roll2

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 08:38 PM
Anyway, Faris, I think you've played very well and are all but confirmed town. Therefore I would love to know what you think of my ideas on Wakka.

[M] Adama
11-23-2012, 08:40 PM
Can we come to some sort of agreement guys? Look, I didn't exactly expect everyone to believe me, but hey, you can't get everyone to believe you.

But right now, we have Luneth looking at Wakka, Rikku looking at practically everyone, me looking at Wedge and Rydia looking at..someone.

Basically, were not getting anywhere.

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
11-23-2012, 08:42 PM
So faris, you're basically happy to admit that you're keeping a vote on a fellow townie based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever? nothing to say to any of the facts I pointed out, and jumping to "it was defensive!!"? You're better than that, son, and you know it. If you're going to keep your vote on me, at least give something resembling an explaination. :aimkiss:

Also, I have a proposal to sort this out easily enough that would clear up a massive number of issues for the town. I am not scum, and rikku is full of trout on his own agenda for vendetta. If we take things purely on face value as they've been presented to us so far, we have the following

1. Wedge has claimed to be a cop. For whatever reasons, nothing has turned up from his claim so far, and he looks scummy. That being said, he's potentially the only investigative role we have to go off and leila found him guilty and she was insane, so it might be fair to assume he is telling the truth. That being said, there is some trouble trying to decide if he's a serial killer or something so Idk.
2. Faris also somehow turned out technically innocent by leila's results, and for now we'll have to assume he is town, even though he's doing a damn fine job of looking anything but so far today. :p

as for me, I have nothing to hide. I see absolutely no reason why I should be forced to divulge my role to the town just to stroke mr. thanksgivings ego, but I am absolutely a townie and I'd be more than willing to, assuming the above is true, let wedge investigate me tonight and send her results to faris who can post them in the morning. It's a fair proposal to clear my name from the shitstorm of poor reasoning and personal vendetta's which are the only things soiling it right now (:p), it would legitimise wedge's claim too. then you would have two confirmed townies, one of whom is some kind of cop. I can't see any reason to refuse this offer, unless you're afraid of my results coming back innocent. :flirt:

[M] Adama
11-23-2012, 08:44 PM
If I'm being totally honest, that proposition actually sounds quite reasonable.

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 08:44 PM
Penelo;3169773']Rydia looking at..someone.

I love the fact that I've successfully managed to be come so confusing that nobody has any idea what I'm up to.

I voted Wakka, but not because of today's events.

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
11-23-2012, 08:45 PM
Forgot to mention as well, it'll also work in reverse, as in if Wedge is a serial killer and what have you, then I should probably die tonight as well and that'll give you all what you want as well. It's win/win all round :)

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 08:47 PM
The problem with your proposal is who do we vote for today? And you're forgetting my investigative role that is left, Relm. Are you then saying I'm a liar and you are not a gun-carrying role?

[M] Adama
11-23-2012, 08:49 PM
Eh, details :kakapo:

Who's actually been very inactive today?

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 08:52 PM
Honestly, Relm's idea is useful I guess. I dunno. It'd sort out Penelo and Wedge once and for all, as well as Rikku and Relm. We have liars and it'll easily cut through that. I look forward to seeing excuses as to why results weren't as they should be. And excuses why it shouldn't happen in the first place :excited:
Rikku;3169780']The problem with your proposal is who do we vote for today?Wakka. :colbert:

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 08:53 PM
Cid hasn't posted since, forever. I'll probably rep him tomorrow. :roll2

[M] Adama
11-23-2012, 08:54 PM
I'm willing to drop Wedge in favour of someone else, the question is whom.

Luneth, explain to me why lynching Wakka is a great idea.

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 08:55 PM
Rikku;3169786']Cid hasn't posted since, forever. I'll probably rep him tomorrow. :roll2You'll probably be him tomorrow.

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 08:57 PM
That's what rep means, genius. Rep = replace.

Anywho, Wedge also hasn't posted and we kind of need him to keep sharing his results so that we can eventually call out his BS.

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 08:58 PM
Luneth;3169710']
Wakka has not done much good. You commented on his vote for Yuffie but I also find his other votes interesting. He voted for Noctis for being irritating and today he has voted for Penelo who has been inactive. To put this in other words he has voted for people who are unlikely to be actually lynched for very poor reasoning.
This was my original reasoning for suspecting Wakka. I wanted to give him time to ease himself into the game and yet despite claiming to be replaced (and having much better grammar - temporarily!) you will note he has reverted back to his old self. I don't think he actually was replaced.Also his "Oh no, SPEED LYNCH!" thing today. I... :confused: Trying to show he's a good contributing townie without saying anything of substance.

If he bandwagons Relm, we'll all know what he is.

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 08:59 PM
Rikku;3169790']That's what rep means, genius. Rep = replace.

Anywho, Wedge also hasn't posted and we kind of need him to keep sharing his results so that we can eventually call out his BS.:greenie:

Also yep. This plan will sort out Wedge once and for all too. I like it. Man. Can we do this plan? Tomorrow is going to be amazing. It's like Mafia Christmas.

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 09:02 PM
btw place your bets on who the liars are

I am going to say all four of them are lying. Penelo and Relm are mafia, Wedge is a serial killer and Rikku is an Ugly Townie. :excited:

[M] Adama
11-23-2012, 09:03 PM
Rikku;3169790']
Anywho, Wedge also hasn't posted and we kind of need him to keep sharing his results so that we can eventually call out his BS.

What results?

[M] Adama
11-23-2012, 09:07 PM
Oh and also, how much time is left in the day?

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 09:09 PM
Luneth;3169796']btw place your bets on who the liars are

Everybody. Not one person has made it this far in the game without telling at least one lie. And I don't mean hypotheses that turned out wrong, I mean outright lies.

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 09:10 PM
Luneth;3169796']btw place your bets on who the liars are

I am going to say all four of them are lying. Penelo and Relm are mafia, Wedge is a serial killer and Rikku is an Ugly Townie. :excited:
That scenario doesn't make sense and you know it.

Wakka has been pretty superficial as a player so he's a decent option, but I have to follow my results and I'm voting one of the two people with a gun who has refused to claim.

[M] Walter - Smart Dad
11-23-2012, 09:11 PM
Mind you, I think new Wakka is just trying to get into terms understanding what the previous Wakka had been doing, and I think the old Wakka was playing rather poorly. He does contribute, but not his contributions were quite small compared to most of us, and I did find his posts to say, "lol time for dinner." rather annoying and pointless. Just indications that he's being active. Of course, both mafia and townies are guilty of doing this, so it's not exactly a good way to determine where he stands.

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 09:11 PM
Penelo;3169797']
Rikku;3169790']
Anywho, Wedge also hasn't posted and we kind of need him to keep sharing his results so that we can eventually call out his BS.

What results?
The results of his night actions. He doesn't actually get results himself but he should keep sharing who he investigated and who the report was sent to.

[M] Adama
11-23-2012, 09:13 PM
Well, he hasn't exactly been doing that either.

[M] Walter - Smart Dad
11-23-2012, 09:14 PM
We should only hope that Wedge does show up today. I think he might, but if he doesn't, it might tell us he's hiding something from us or refuses to say anything because we've been doubting him almost every time.

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 09:14 PM
He did up until today, I think.

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 09:15 PM
Rikku;3169803']That scenario doesn't make sense and you know it.Mindfuck mafia. It's not supposed to make sense. :goofy:
Rikku;3169803']Wakka has been pretty superficial as a player so he's a decent option, but I have to follow my results and I'm voting one of the two people with a gun who has refused to claim.Oooh, here's our first refuser. Yes! :D What are you so afraid of with the plan? ;) That maybe it'll reveal a truth about you that you don't want me to see? I'll love you anyway, babe. You know that.

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 09:16 PM
"time for dinner" is the oldest excuse in the book!

[M] Adama
11-23-2012, 09:17 PM
Faris;3169808']We should only hope that Wedge does show up today. I think he might, but if he doesn't, it might tell us he's hiding something from us or refuses to say anything because we've been doubting him almost every time.

Can he really blame us though? Even the most naive townie would start raising eyebrows at Wedge.

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
11-23-2012, 09:18 PM
Rikku;3169780']The problem with your proposal is who do we vote for today? And you're forgetting my investigative role that is left, Relm. Are you then saying I'm a liar and you are not a gun-carrying role?

This'll be the third time, even. :aimkiss:

Vote for whoever you want, I don't really care. You're not in this for the town anyway, you've made that perfectly clear. :p My proposal is the best one for the town from pretty much every possible outcome. anyone who would rather keep going after me based on the pants reasoning given so far, that not one person who is doing it has tried to explain, will be saying quite enough about themselves as it is. so even that benefits the town. I'm just that much of a kind hearted soul. :flirt:

it'll all work out either way. I'm town and I know it. I've offered a pretty reasonble proposal to prove it, as well as clear up another number of issues to benefit the town. if my fellow townies and the scum out there continue to push the agenda, well that's up to them but like I said even in dying i'll still be able to prove the point. you'll just be a townie down and have to start over again tomorrow. Or you can do the right thing and try and sort it out now. Your choice, people.

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 09:24 PM
I'm not even sure of what the plan is exactly. In general I don't like making elaborate plans in the thread because there's no guarantee that we'll all be alive the next day to see them work.

My vote is for a person who is carrying a gun yet has refused to answer to that accusation. Like I said, if you think I'm lying then vote my ass out but I know what information I have and I'm basing my vote on that.

[M] Adama
11-23-2012, 09:27 PM
I don't care if we might not all make it to see the plan in action, the whole point of the plan is to clear up the mess this town has gotten itself into.

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 09:29 PM
Penelo;3169813']
Can he really blame us though? Even the most naive townie would start raising eyebrows at Wedge.

I think it's a given that Wedge cannot be saved at this point. If the mafs don't take him out before knocking out a SK becomes a higher town priority than going after the mafia, the town will.

It's entirely possible that Wedge might be a SK and not know it. That would be a mindsmurf role. It also explains why the recipient of his report dies every time; that's the nature of the role. The investigation's a red herring -- Jiro's, not Wedge's -- and the real nature of the role is to kill the recipient. Wedge, if you're town-aligned, perhaps you should refrain from doing an investigation tonight and see if there is more than one kill.

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 09:29 PM
Relm;3169814']Vote for whoever you want, I don't really care. You're not in this for the town anyway, you've made that perfectly clear. :p My proposal is the best one for the town from pretty much every possible outcome. anyone who would rather keep going after me based on the pants reasoning given so far, that not one person who is doing it has tried to explain, will be saying quite enough about themselves as it is. so even that benefits the town. I'm just that much of a kind hearted soul. :flirt:
I've pretty clearly stated that I'm only interested in helping the town and not part of some vendetta. You're the one not helping by saying 'vote for whoever you want, I don't really care'. That doesn't help at all.

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 09:29 PM
wakka is scum so he should be the priority lynch target regardless.

then y'all do y'all plan and tomorrow it'll be prime mafia comedy all round

everyone wins

[M] Walter - Smart Dad
11-23-2012, 09:30 PM
I think we can all agree that we're in a bit of a predicament. Quite embarrassing for us to be in, and we're so deep into the game. We have no idea who's lying, or telling the truth. All we have to go on about is trusting our instincts.

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
11-23-2012, 09:30 PM
It's not exactly a very elaborate plan. As I said, based on the assumptions that everyone has been telling the truth so far, Wedge and Faris are town, therefore Wedge investigates me and sends the results to faris, who posts them in the thread tomorrow. It's not exactly airship science.

This'll be the fourth time I've answered your accusation. You're lying. The only way you can prove you're not is by getting people to lynch me and me flipping something with a gun, but it won't happen. So you'll have wasted a day and a Townie. But that's your agenda and you're sticking to it, I understand that. You're not my concern, the town are.

I, however, can prove I'm telling the truth, by having the two "confirmed" townies investigate me. Even if something were to go amiss in the night, it'd still give the town plenty of options. Say, for instance, the mafia decide to kill one of Me, Wedge, or Faris so the whole thing falls apart. What have they got to gain from that? Obviously, it'll mean they don't want the truth about my status to come out because at the moment, you're doing a pretty good job for them. What if Faris doesn't get a report? Well, unfortunately it doesn't do anything about my status but it will be the only instance in the game of Wedge having a public and clearly defined investigation that hasn't worked. So there's something to go on there, too. Like I said, this plan benefits only the town, and I can't think of any good reason why a townie would be against it.

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 09:33 PM
Penelo;3169819']I don't care if we might not all make it to see the plan in action, the whole point of the plan is to clear up the mess this town has gotten itself into.
Yes, but if the plan relies on certain people being alive tomorrow, ie. Faris, then it really doesn't work it all if she's killed. You can't say 'person X tracks Y who investigates Z' when any of X, Y and Z may be killed. That plan doesn't work and leaves us in worse shape than we began in.

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 09:33 PM
Faris;3169823']I think we can all agree that we're in a bit of a predicament. Quite embarrassing for us to be in, and we're so deep into the game. We have no idea who's lying, or telling the truth. All we have to go on about is trusting our instincts.I know you're telling the truth. To be honest... I think I've... fallen for you. :flirt:

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 09:34 PM
Relm;3169824']It's not exactly a very elaborate plan. As I said, based on the assumptions that everyone has been telling the truth so far, Wedge and Faris are town, therefore Wedge investigates me and sends the results to faris, who posts them in the thread tomorrow. It's not exactly airship science.
Your plan doesn't work if Faris dies which may be the case since she's been one of the most helpful town roles.

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
11-23-2012, 09:34 PM
Rikku;3169821']
Relm;3169814']Vote for whoever you want, I don't really care. You're not in this for the town anyway, you've made that perfectly clear. :p My proposal is the best one for the town from pretty much every possible outcome. anyone who would rather keep going after me based on the pants reasoning given so far, that not one person who is doing it has tried to explain, will be saying quite enough about themselves as it is. so even that benefits the town. I'm just that much of a kind hearted soul. :flirt:
I've pretty clearly stated that I'm only interested in helping the town and not part of some vendetta. You're the one not helping by saying 'vote for whoever you want, I don't really care'. That doesn't help at all.

you're the one who said yourself you want people to vote for me because it would make you happy. other than that you've got nothing to go on, other than claiming you're a gunsmith and I've got a gun. You're lying. It helps with your agenda. that'll be proved either way. so :shobon:

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
11-23-2012, 09:37 PM
they'll hit him either way if he's that good of a townie. the only difference will be you'll have killed another townie in me so you'll be two down and the mafia will be in an even stronger position. :monster:

Goldenboko
11-23-2012, 09:39 PM
About 10 hours left guys.

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 09:39 PM
THE PLAN IS AN AFTERTHOUGHT. I mean it'll be good fun and will solve all our issues but let's not make it The Thing.

We must all lynch Wakka. That is what we must do!

Damnit where is Leon or Balthier when I need them? They'd get it.

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 09:41 PM
So Relm, if you think I'm lying, why not vote for me? Your vote should have been placed on me after my very first post if you indeed don't have a gun. Because if I'm not a gunsmith then I am a mafia and an enemy of the town.

Town, look at my posts and tell me if they are consistent with my role. Then ask yourself what aim I would have as a mafia to act as I am now. Don't look for what is suspicious, look for how a mafia would act to avoid suspicion. A mafia wavers. A mafia doesn't commit. A mafia tries to confuse. I am doing none of those things, but Relm is.

I have no idea what Luneth or Wakka are and for all I know Luneth could be on to something. But I'm not going to trust him when I have a result right in front of me that is not adding up with what Relm is saying. Please join me in lynching Relm and not worry about crazy capers or elaborate schemes.

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 09:44 PM
You had me up until the point where you told me not to engage in crazy capers or elaborate schemes. ;)

Honestly, Rikku, I'm warming to you. Maybe I was wrong. I don't know. But I dunno. I don't feel it on Relm. That Relm straight up refused to claim is less suspicious to me than Penelo instantly caving to you.

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 09:48 PM
I also found Penelo's caving suspicious, but really it makes it between her and Wedge at this point and in an end game scenario I think the right decision will be made. That's why I laid off her after the claim.

From your perspective I can see the doubt, but I hope you can see from my perspective why I would want Relm out, assuming I'm telling the truth. And why I can't join you on Wakka today. Sorry bud.

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
11-23-2012, 09:49 PM
What good would it do me to vote for you? Would you have suddenly run away screaming and apologised for the whole thing? no. You've got your agenda, and you're sticking to your guns (see what I did there)

also, don't try and put words in my mouth. I've never even floated the idea that you're a mafia. I've already stated on however many occasions that you're on your own agenda here, just like you were yesterday. I think it was the post after you voted for me, you came straight out and said "Vote for relm, it would make me very happy." Not "It will be good for the town", not "because she is a scum and I can prove it", do it for the good of your soul.

And don't get me wrong, I think you're lying very well. You picked a brilliant fake claim to make, one that is very hard to disprove. However, the town can disprove it, as well as gain however many other benefits, by not killing me and having me investigated instead. but it's up to them. Either waste me and gain nothing other than a happy Rikku, or investigate me, and potentially gain a ton of new, solid information and at least two, maybe three confirmed townies. It's not really that difficult of a choice to make, unless confirmed townies is bad for you. :redface:

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 09:52 PM
Relm;3169824']Wedge investigates me and sends the results to faris, who posts them in the thread tomorrow. It's not exactly airship science.

Do you rave? Every Wedge Report recipient is dead. The worst thing Wedge could possibly do to the town would be to send a report to the only townie we can trust. That looks like the move of a maf trying to get us to jump the gun on a maybe-SK in order to free up a night kill.

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 09:55 PM
Send the sodding report to me if you are all scared of Faris dying. I'd laugh for approximately seven whole minutes if they killed me... right before I replaced back in as Cid.

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
11-23-2012, 09:56 PM
That only works if the serial killer theory is true, Which I don't think it is. I'd sooner buy that Wedge is not telling the truth then he's scum rather than an SK, but that's just me. :redface: and like I said to Rikku, if Faris is that good of a townie then what makes you think the mafia are going to let her live tonight anyway? She could very well go down for a number of reasons. But like I said, assuming Faris and Wedge are telling the truth, like me, this is the only way for it to be proven. :redface:

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 09:57 PM
Can we seriously cool it with the agenda crap? There is no hidden agenda. I will admit that I got a bit of a smile when I got Relm's results back but I never would go after a town player as part of some agenda. That's petty and I'm above it. Even Psychotic knows this. I would never vote for someone I didn't suspect of being mafia so drop it now or pay the price after the game is over.

Of course, if I'm mafia then all bets are off. ;)

Please judge my actions as mafia/not mafia and not part of some personal agenda. That's not how I play this game and I will not continue to play this game if that keeps becomming an issue.

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
11-23-2012, 10:00 PM
besides, even if Faris is going to die, if wedge sends the report and she does, well, the mafia have to be just as afraid of wedge as they do the town so he'll get his. and I'll get lynched tomorrow and prove I was not lying. Like I said, if Faris is such a danger there's no promise she'll stay alive tonight anyway. In the best case scenario, however, the town stands far more to gain from doing this than from doing anything else. Anyone trying to dispute that is full of it. :redface:

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 10:03 PM
Rikku;3169849']Can we seriously cool it with the agenda crap? There is no hidden agenda. I will admit that I got a bit of a smile when I got Relm's results back but I never would go after a town player as part of some agenda. That's petty and I'm above it. Even Psychotic knows this. I would never vote for someone I didn't suspect of being mafia so drop it now or pay the price after the game is over.

Of course, if I'm mafia then all bets are off. ;)

Please judge my actions as mafia/not mafia and not part of some personal agenda. That's not how I play this game and I will not continue to play this game if that keeps becomming an issue.james biggs is back

and this time

IT'S PERSONAL

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 10:03 PM
Luneth;3169847']Send the sodding report to me if you are all scared of Faris dying.

No, I need you alive. For one more day, at least.

If I were Wedge, I'd take no action tonight, and then start sending reports to whoever I think is mafia. If my hypothesis on the nature of Wedge's role is right, there is no SK, there's a town-aligned nightkiller: Wedge himself.

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 10:04 PM
How does this explain Penelo then?

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 10:05 PM
Rydia;3169852']
Luneth;3169847']Send the sodding report to me if you are all scared of Faris dying.

No, I need you alive. For one more day, at least.You think a sneeze could blow me away that easily? Tchow! Took them 3 attempts last time. I got another party under my trunk for them. I'm all kinds of fun. Hehe

[M] Jeff - Single Dad
11-23-2012, 10:16 PM
Well anyway, I've pretty much said what I feel I need to say. I'm set in my convictions that my proposal would be the best way forward for the town. Hopefully people will see that. If not, at least take a good hard look at people who want nothing to do with it, because if you outweigh the potential benefits gained by doing it compared to not doing it, I'm sure there will be things to learn about the others from that alone. :redface: just make sure you think long and hard people. town depends on it.

gonna bugger off for a bit now, so before I go I will just

##vote Wakka

sorry man, nothing personal but I know I'm town and I'm not gonna self vote. and I'm definitely never going to do anything Rikku wants me to do (:aimkiss:) so, i'll throw my hat in with Luneth.

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 10:17 PM
Rikku;3169854']How does this explain Penelo then?

It does not. I have nothing on Penelo at the moment.

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 10:20 PM
Relm;3169863']i'll throw my hat in with Luneth.welcome to the light side, my child.

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 10:25 PM
Relm;3169863']Well anyway, I've pretty much said what I feel I need to say. I'm set in my convictions that my proposal would be the best way forward for the town. Hopefully people will see that. If not, at least take a good hard look at people who want nothing to do with it, because if you outweigh the potential benefits gained by doing it compared to not doing it, I'm sure there will be things to learn about the others from that alone. :redface: just make sure you think long and hard people. town depends on it.

gonna bugger off for a bit now, so before I go I will just

##vote Wakka

sorry man, nothing personal but I know I'm town and I'm not gonna self vote. and I'm definitely never going to do anything Rikku wants me to do (:aimkiss:) so, i'll throw my hat in with Luneth.
A vote of self-preservation and not one trying to find scum. Remember, if I am lying then Relm knows it. Yet she is steering clear of trying to vote for me in an effort to save herself.

Remember Biggs? He could have tried to get votes on Wedge to save himself. But he sacrificed because Wedge wasn't on his radar. That's what true townies do. Not come up with elaborate night action schemes that will in all likelihood backfire.

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 10:28 PM
Sorry Rikku, Relm is under my protection now.

Every townie should make a self-preservation vote in this situation. They know what they are.

Relm has never said you are mafia.

Also Biggs, the man who lied about a roleclaim just to win a petty pissing contest, is not the paragon of a true townie.

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 10:32 PM
What am I though, if I'm a liar?

Also why not lynch Relm and do the little night 6 scheme on Wakka instead? Lynching Wakka will still create doubt on my role. Lynching Relm will at least confirm or not confirm one town and you can still go through with proving Wakka guilty using the same exact plan you had before.

[M] Anise
11-23-2012, 10:33 PM
I'm sorry for my patchy posting. Typing in a rush, pretty busy today, didn't care about the ins and outs of grammar and trout. I also only mentioned the speed lynch thing cause I was thinking of voting Relm at that time, and that would have pushed her up to 4 votes. Leaving only 2 votes for the majority, which isn't cool. I was just thinking out loud. Take it or leave it, that's what was going on.



I am entirely skeptical of everything that has happened today. Roleclaims out the butt, conflicting stories, crazy plots... I wish I had more to say, but I have nothing to go on today because of all the convoulted reveals. Which doesn't help my innocence, falling into the ways of old Wakka and his crap posting. :( Relm's idea seems sound on paper, but that seems to require me taking one for the team. Which I'm not cool with, imagine.

Seems that the only decision really to be made today is whether myself or Relm gets the noose. I know what I'm voting if that ends up being the case.



Since I started typing this post, seems that I have been kicked to the top of the votes. I also know I'm town, and I also won't self-vote. Jumping on the Relm bandwagon will only make me appear scummier, but what can I do? Self-preservation dictates this move, sadly. Sorry bud.

##vote: Relm

[M] Anise
11-23-2012, 10:34 PM
I agree with Rikku if only because it'll let me live another day.

I am not ready to die. :(

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 10:35 PM
Oh, I'm not relying on this scheme at all. I've always got a crazy caper of my own. ;) It's got to be Wakka and it's got to be today.

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 10:39 PM
Have you presented any other evidence on Wakka other than the speed lynch comment and the typical 'everyone listen to me because I'm so good at this :smug:' attitude?

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 10:39 PM
Nothing wrong with self-preservation, Wakka. Town or mafia, you gotta do what you gotta do.

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 10:41 PM
Rikku;3169877']Have you presented any other evidence on Wakka other than the speed lynch comment and the typical 'everyone listen to me because I'm so good at this :smug:' attitude?Uh... yeah... I've only posted the evidence about his utterly woeful vote history 3 times now.

Also not once said "listen to me I am great" in regards to Wakka. I saw how that went with Blank and I'll thank you not to suggest that again, lest you want me to use the personal agenda angle on you again. I have presented logical arguments and reasoning.

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 10:42 PM
Where is that evidence? I live in the moment now so I refuse to check posts! Just generally tell me where to look for it.

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 10:48 PM
Wakka;3169873']I agree with Rikku if only because it'll let me live another day.

I am not ready to die. :(

Blame your predecessor or blame God

[M] Anise
11-23-2012, 10:49 PM
I wish I could do more about my woeful vote history. I can't even begin to explain why the last guy saw fit to be so useless. I feel Rikku's pain here.

I will blame both God and my predecessor, just for good measure.

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 10:50 PM
Biggs;3168760']Here's what I don't like. I don't like Wakka and Leila's vote switch to Yuffie at the end of Day 4 once the votes were stacking up for Blank. It smells bad. Real bad.

Luneth;3168772']Wakka has not done much good. You commented on his vote for Yuffie but I also find his other votes interesting. He voted for Noctis for being irritating and today he has voted for Penelo who has been inactive. To put this in other words he has voted for people who are unlikely to be actually lynched for very poor reasoning.

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 10:54 PM
Also I think there is a meta-game reason for doing Wakka in but I can't say it because it's not fair. But just so you all know that's part of why I have a bee in my bonnet. I can't overlook that even if I won't say it. Sorry Wakka... but god knows you mafia types killed me for being Psychotic, so :monster: What goes around comes around.

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 11:17 PM
Fair enough, though I hate meta gaming (and even the mention of it) and I can't really use that in my criteria whether or not I believe you.

To be honest, absent my role actions proving Relm to be a liar I would probably have voted for Wakka. But that's a guess based on activity and the info I have on Relm is fact.

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 11:25 PM
What lies did Relm tell? In all seriousness now, because I didn't notice that and that's a gamechanger.

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 11:31 PM
Lies aren't a gamechanger. Biggs lied and he was town. I've lied and I'm town.

[M] Colette
11-23-2012, 11:35 PM
What lie did you​ tell?

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-23-2012, 11:41 PM
rots and rots of ries

[M] Athena
11-23-2012, 11:57 PM
Luneth;3169900']What lies did Relm tell? In all seriousness now, because I didn't notice that and that's a gamechanger.
It's the lie that only Relm or I could verify. I said she has a gun. She has denied it and instead claimed I am the liar.

Jiro
11-24-2012, 12:33 AM
[M] Relm (4) - Balthier, Rikku, Faris, Wakka
[M] Wakka (3) - Rydia, Luneth, Relm
[M] Wedge (1) - Penelo

6.5 hours left, there abouts.

[M] Colette
11-24-2012, 12:43 AM
Wakka needs to die. And it needs to be today. Sorry kids, can't tell you why. There is a compelling reason and it'll be obvious if you help me on this. I don't want to post it though because I think it'll help Wakka and his mafia friend(s)? (I assume there were 5 of them) If you need more information to trust me then I'm afraid you'll just have to not trust me. Some of you may already know the reason, I think.

Faris is both disappointing and intriguing me, and I have to wonder what's going on there. Balthier hasn't been here since he put down a vote. The other two I understand and they won't change their votes. Cid, Wedge, won't vote. That means I have one hope.

LEON!
Luneth;3169885']
Biggs;3168760']Here's what I don't like. I don't like Wakka and Leila's vote switch to Yuffie at the end of Day 4 once the votes were stacking up for Blank. It smells bad. Real bad.

Luneth;3168772']Wakka has not done much good. You commented on his vote for Yuffie but I also find his other votes interesting. He voted for Noctis for being irritating and today he has voted for Penelo who has been inactive. To put this in other words he has voted for people who are unlikely to be actually lynched for very poor reasoning.Please consider this information. Thank you.

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-24-2012, 01:02 AM
Leon would only create a tie, and then Stiltz would have to pick the townie.
We need someone to change their mind in order to punch Wakka in the ovaries while maintaining unbroken eye contact.

Jiro
11-24-2012, 01:09 AM
I only pick the lynched after sudden death is up and usually somebody is brave enough to change their vote by that point.

[M] Colette
11-24-2012, 01:11 AM
A tie is better than what we're sleepwalking into at the moment. I just wish people would consider what I have to say. I know the town can play better than this. There's no urgent need to lynch Relm today when she can be lynched tomorrow if people still want to do that.

Oh well, when the game is over I'm going to point back to this post and spam a million I TOLD U SO :smug: posts in the discussion thread. That always cheers me up! :p

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-24-2012, 01:17 AM
To be honest, I kind of feel bad about gunning for someone who's just subbed in, but if we don't go after the character instead of the player, we essentially lose by default. That's what cost us Del Murder last time.

[M] Colette
11-24-2012, 01:36 AM
Oh fuck it I'm just going to come out and say it.

I think we have two mafias.

Wakka, Faris (Godfather), Setzer, unknown.

Penelo, Relm, Blank, Galuf.

I know having four on each is insanely powerful but you consider the amount of hax roles the town has had.

I've made my analysis as to team mates from votes and suspicions. Note Setzer voting for Relm yesterday, for example, and Penelo defending her. I also note Faris is not voting for Wakka which is why she is with him.

Mafia 2 has two members left, Mafia 1 has three. I hope you can now see why we need to get Wakka down first. I mean if you want to get Faris, that's cool too, but yeah.

[M] Colette
11-24-2012, 01:40 AM
I don't know if I will have time to post my full "Person X is in Mafia Y" notes as they're mostly mental. And, well, effort. But feel free to look over their posts and associations yourself and see if you think I am right.

I don't know who the unknown is but just wait and see who votes for Relm and who votes for Wakka.

[M] Dave Stepdad
11-24-2012, 02:18 AM
Luneth;3169933']
Faris is both disappointing and intriguing me, and I have to wonder what's going on there. Balthier hasn't been here since he put down a vote. The other two I understand and they won't change their votes. Cid, Wedge, won't vote. That means I have one hope.

LEON!

I am not sure why you believe I won't vote today, Luneth, I've only been inactive because I was cooking and entertaining guests (and then had to take a 2 hour nap to recover some). I am here now and I have quickly read up on what I've missed, but I will have to read more into why it is such a rush to lynch Wakka right now for the good of town and all. I know you are a good player and I agree with your assessment of who is mafia, but I missed the reason for the rush on Wakka.

[M] Colette
11-24-2012, 02:19 AM
Galuf and Setzer are presumably not on the same team as they are a specialist killing role.
Faris has outright refused to vote for Wakka, thus is on Wakka's team.
Setzer was often up in Relm's shit and voted for him, so is probably not on Relm's team.
Penelo seems rather naive. She has been defending Relm, so they are likely together.
As Blank and Faris are both Godfathers, they are not on the same team.

I appreciate this is not perfect logic but it's what I have been working on. I've been looking back through the thread and there's more ties but I'm going to bed right now. This is just a starter point. There is more but I'm so tired. Christ I'll probably end up staying up and posting it anyway.

Mafia A (Wakka, Faris, Setzer, unknown) is undoubtedly the stronger right now, given the number advantage and the mystery surrounding the fourth member. We need to hit them first and we need to hit them now.

If we lynch Relm today, and they kill 2 town tonight (I suspect me and Rikku might be getting it) that's 3 mafia A, 1 mafia B, 4 town. And we don't know who the other member of mafia A is. Not a good position to be in because you're staring game over in the face right there. Lynch Wakka, and you're left with 2 mafia A, 2 mafia B, 4 town. Mafia A is weakened, and this gives more room for error for the town.

Rikku, Leon, I leave it up to you. I hope to god one of you two is not the mystery mafia member. Rikku, I am happy to lynch Relm or Penelo tomorrow. I really am.

Please please please listen to me. Thank you.

[M] Colette
11-24-2012, 02:20 AM
Wedge;3169981']
Luneth;3169933']
Faris is both disappointing and intriguing me, and I have to wonder what's going on there. Balthier hasn't been here since he put down a vote. The other two I understand and they won't change their votes. Cid, Wedge, won't vote. That means I have one hope.

LEON!

I am not sure why you believe I won't vote today, Luneth, I've only been inactive because I was cooking and entertaining guests (and then had to take a 2 hour nap to recover some). I am here now and I have quickly read up on what I've missed, but I will have to read more into why it is such a rush to lynch Wakka right now for the good of town and all. I know you are a good player and I agree with your assessment of who is mafia, but I missed the reason for the rush on Wakka.hope post below clears it up. Wakka is on the stronger mafia team right now. We need to hit the stronger team else tomorrow we're in trouble. If my analysis still gives you doubt as to what the stronger team is... look at who has the most votes.

[M] Walter - Smart Dad
11-24-2012, 02:25 AM
Luneth is pretty smart, but he's very determined to have Wakka lynched, because he's been acting scummy. However, I think we should focus our attention on someone just as scummy, like Relm, who Rikku, a gunsmith, determined to be owning a gun. Penelo, the other person with a gun from Rikku's report, is an FBI agent, seems pretty innocent at the moment. Relm, on the other hand, simply refuses to cooperate when we've been accusing her. She, to me, seems more dangerous a scum, than Wakka.

Anyway, Wedge... I sense you might have done some investigating for us last night. Care to share with who you investigated, and who might have those reports with us?

[M] Walter - Smart Dad
11-24-2012, 02:28 AM
Luneth, I've determine both Wakka and Relm might be scum, but to me, Relm is simply the more dangerous of the two.

[M] Colette
11-24-2012, 02:30 AM
why is Relm more dangerous? please advise. I need to know why. Thank you.

[M] Dave Stepdad
11-24-2012, 02:31 AM
No, you make complete sense and I agree with your assessment. Well, I have been willing to trust your judgement before so I will so again. I have to leave for a bit but I am willing to put my vote down now and when I come back I will tell you about my reporting.

##Vote: [M] Wakka

[M] Colette
11-24-2012, 02:34 AM
Wedge;3169989']No, you make complete sense and I agree with your assessment. Well, I have been willing to trust your judgement before so I will so again. I have to leave for a bit but I am willing to put my vote down now and when I come back I will tell you about my reporting.

##Vote: [M] Wakkathank you wedge

I am so exhausted but I can't turn my back on this.

by the way wedge... have you considered the possibility you're being roleblocked and that is why nobody has ever got a report? it makes some sense, no? i think so.

[M] Athena
11-24-2012, 02:41 AM
Wedge;3169989']No, you make complete sense and I agree with your assessment. Well, I have been willing to trust your judgement before so I will so again. I have to leave for a bit but I am willing to put my vote down now and when I come back I will tell you about my reporting.

##Vote: [M] Wakka
Not sure why you keep doing this. 'I'll post it later guys, I swear.' Your first post should have been this information!

The 2 mafias theory is plausible, and makes sense given all the smurf ton of town power roles in this game. Seriously. If there were no inactives in this game then the mafia would have been pretty screwed.

Luneth, does the 2 mafia theory fit in with your own role or are you just basing this with what has been posted? Also, if you feel you are in danger of being killed I hope you would claim before the day is over if it helps the town.

I think I called for this before, but seriously if everyone claimed at this point I'm pretty sure we could put the pieces together.

Did Faris mention who she tracked last night? Is there a recap somewhere of all of Faris's trackings?

[M] Athena
11-24-2012, 02:43 AM
Luneth;3169990']by the way wedge... have you considered the possibility you're being roleblocked and that is why nobody has ever got a report? it makes some sense, no? i think so.
I've considered this as well, and that's why I generally believed Wedge's claim from the begining. I'm almost certain a Prostitute is in play and my hunch is that it is Relm.

[M] Colette
11-24-2012, 02:46 AM
Rikku;3169995']Did Faris mention who she tracked last night? Is there a recap somewhere of all of Faris's trackings?Faris tracked Setzer which was very convienient.

Suggest you investigate Faris tonight.

nothing to do with my role, I can claim if needs be. But I don't know if it would really help. I just hope to confuse the mafia into who to target. You, me, each other. Interesting to see how it all goes down.

[M] Colette
11-24-2012, 02:48 AM
although if you have a hunch as to whoever this other bastard is investigate them instead. I don't have a clue right now. Suspect it is not Wedge or Rydia. Process of elimination: Leon, Balthier, Cid.

[M] Athena
11-24-2012, 02:50 AM
Thanks for your suggestions, but I'm a big boy and I can make my own actions.

I'll think about this but I have to pull a Wakka and go eat dinner.

[M] Colette
11-24-2012, 02:51 AM
if you can convince me that relm is on the mafia with the most team mates left (clearly with 3 dead mafia members, one mafia is larger than the other right now) then I will vote for her btw. But I think it is Wakka's mafia.

[M] Athena
11-24-2012, 02:55 AM
Nah, I can't convince you of that. I'm done with the in depth analysis of this game. I made 100 posts yesterday and it got me a noose so screw that. I'm going with my results and the reaction to them and that points to Relm.

Presumably if there is a 3-mafia team left then they would want to ice the last of the other mafia team because that lone gunman would be their biggest threat. So one of the two of us would at least be around tomorrow. Probably you since killing me is a running gag in this game.

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-24-2012, 02:55 AM
I think the Fistoulari principle applies to the 2 mafia hypothesis.

[M] Colette
11-24-2012, 03:03 AM
Rikku;3170004'] Probably you since killing me is a running gag in this game.hey man they tried to kill me plenty of times before!

I've done all I can. It's 2 AM and I've been up since 6 so I am going to bed. Relm and Wakka are both scum we just need to hit the right pair. I think it's the Wakka/Faris pair. Good luck everyone.

[M] Dave Stepdad
11-24-2012, 04:02 AM
Rikku;3169995']
Not sure why you keep doing this. 'I'll post it later guys, I swear.' Your first post should have been this information!


Sorry about that, but just as I was going to type out this post my daughter sent me a text message saying she needed a ride home. Family is always going to come before Mafia, even though I love you all so much!



Luneth;3169990']
by the way wedge... have you considered the possibility you're being roleblocked and that is why nobody has ever got a report? it makes some sense, no? i think so.

Of course I did but I want to really look at want to take the time to recap my investigations to see why the could have failed:
Night 1: Investigate Laguana report to Serah. These two are switched by bus driver Kain and Serah receives the benefit of doctor's protection and Laguna receives a report on himself right after he eats a bullet from Yuffie.
Night 2: Investigate Faris reports to Quina. Sadly our beloved princess is dead, that's what happens when you are too smart for your own good.
Night 3: Investigate Rydia report to Yuffie. Yuffie told us that on night 3 she did a stake out preventing anyone from being able to target her. There goes my report.
Night 4: I didn't tell anyone about this report but I made an insinuation that no one questioned. The truth is I investigated Refia and sent the report to Biggs, that is why it upset me so much that not only was Refia dead the next morning but Biggs prematurely states he did not receive any stinking report. This and his pressure to get me to cough up my role name is why I voted against him. I didn't expect it to go any where, I expected to get lynched, which would have been better for the town. >_<
Night 5: In an effort to get a report thorough to someone I wanted to choose someone who was not high profile but did not seem to be scummy either. I sent my report to Balthier and I investigated Relm.
I was going to vote for Relm today for several reasons. She's been trying to paint me as scum from the get go without ever voting for me. If she successfully convinces everyone I'm mafia and they lynch me then she can say well I didn't vote for him I just thought he was suspicious.
She voted for Yuffie instead of Blank and she willingly jumped right on the "lynch Biggs" speed lynch.
Balthier voted for Relm.
Rikku's reporting that Relm has a gun fits with my assessment of her.
I also believe there are two mafia teams out there and it would make sense that each of them would have a specialized killer on there team. I know that I see much but that Psychotic sees more and is very good at discerning what people are not saying when they post. This is why I am willing to let him persuade me now. Tomorrow, if I am not night killed, I will vote for Relm.

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-24-2012, 04:11 AM
I don't know what to make of that other than it seems that Wedge is a bit better at this game than we have been led to believe.

[M] Dave Stepdad
11-24-2012, 04:15 AM
Thanks for the vote of confidence! :kakapo:

One other point that I forgot to mention in favor of siding with Luneth is that Relm suggested that I investigate her and send the report to Faris, this would give Faris the chance to clear Relm as a townie.

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-24-2012, 04:17 AM
Not if your report is poisoned. In your scenario, the only people that you have sent a report to who failed to die immediately also appear to have failed to receive the report, likely due to a roleblocker.

[M] Dave Stepdad
11-24-2012, 04:22 AM
I'm saying if they are both scum and on the same team, Faris can say I received the report and it says that Relm is an artist who is misunderstood when it really says Relm is a scumbag that likes to draw. She could say that whatever she wants if I confirm that I send a report to her about her own partner, whether she actually receives the report or not.

[M] Athena
11-24-2012, 04:26 AM
Wedge;3170021']Thanks for the vote of confidence! :kakapo:

One other point that I forgot to mention in favor of siding with Luneth is that Relm suggested that I investigate her and send the report to Faris, this would give Faris the chance to clear Relm as a townie.
Not quite. If you buy into the 2 mafia claim then Faris is part of one of the mafias.

I've thought over Luneth's theory and there is something to it. However, even in his theory he has Relm down as a scumbag. So voting for Relm has his theory and my investigation behind it. Voting for Wakka only has his theory. The choice is clear for me.

Even if we are taking out the weaker mafia team, there will still be two killing factions out there if Luneth is correct. So they will need to gun for each other as much as us. In fact, if one team is only down to one member it benefits that person a lot more to take out at least one of the other mafia before they start going for town roles. At least I think so.

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-24-2012, 04:30 AM
Once again, I feel the need to reiterate the Fistoulari principle: If you need something to be true, assume it is. If fewer than 50% of the remaining players is town, then the town has already lost. If the 2 mafia hypothesis is true, then less than 50% of the remaining players are town. Therefore any action taken by the town which is predicated on the 2 mafia hypothesis is suicidal.

[M] Athena
11-24-2012, 04:33 AM
Good thing I'm acting based on my own nightly results then.

Also that Day Kill picture never sat well with me.

Jiro
11-24-2012, 04:41 AM
I've had questions, so I should clarify a point. Night actions for inactive players have been randomised since night 2 as otherwise the game would have broken completely. I had a finely tuned balance in this game.

However, in the interest of fairness, these night actions had to first pass a d2 roll to decide if they even activated. For instance, Leila's investigations would need to roll a 1 to activate and then the target was chosen randomly from the remaining living players. This is a blanket rule I applied. Random.org was used to calculate all of this.

Don't take this as a confirmation of anybody or their role claim though. Lying is always a possibility from your fellow players.

[M] Dave Stepdad
11-24-2012, 04:42 AM
Rikku;3170027']
Wedge;3170021']Thanks for the vote of confidence! :kakapo:

One other point that I forgot to mention in favor of siding with Luneth is that Relm suggested that I investigate her and send the report to Faris, this would give Faris the chance to clear Relm as a townie.
Not quite. If you buy into the 2 mafia claim then Faris is part of one of the mafias.

I've thought over Luneth's theory and there is something to it. However, even in his theory he has Relm down as a scumbag. So voting for Relm has his theory and my investigation behind it. Voting for Wakka only has his theory. The choice is clear for me.

Even if we are taking out the weaker mafia team, there will still be two killing factions out there if Luneth is correct. So they will need to gun for each other as much as us. In fact, if one team is only down to one member it benefits that person a lot more to take out at least one of the other mafia before they start going for town roles. At least I think so.

It's hard not to be persuaded by him because I've seen players say something that was seemingly innocuous in my eyes and he be totally correct at knowing exactly what their role was. I wish he hadn't gone to bed because I'm quite sure that he has check mate in 5 moves going on in his head and I wish I could strategize as well as he can.

[M] Athena
11-24-2012, 04:44 AM
Ok, let's not start sucking his dick just yet, though.

Thank you Jiro for the confirmation of my role. jk jk

[M] Dave Stepdad
11-24-2012, 04:45 AM
Seriously, my dear, please don't be vulgar. What is the vote count right now?

[M] Athena
11-24-2012, 04:46 AM
All tied up, slick.

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-24-2012, 04:49 AM
Lying is always a possibility from your fellow players.

I alone have thrown out enough red herrings to put them on the endangered species list :)

[M] Dave Stepdad
11-24-2012, 04:49 AM
[M] Relm (4) - Balthier, Rikku, Faris, Wakka
[M] Wakka (3) - Rydia, Luneth, Relm
[M] Wedge (1) - Penelo

6.5 hours left, there abouts.

With my vote on Wakka they are tied, so let's see who breaks the tie for now.

[M] Dave Stepdad
11-24-2012, 04:51 AM
Rikku;3170035']All tied up, slick.

Stop being so miffed, it's not like the day is over and I can't change to match my beliefs.

[M] Athena
11-24-2012, 04:55 AM
:confused: I'm not miffed, slick.

Jiro
11-24-2012, 04:55 AM
I'll post updated counts and tallies in an hour when I get home. You have roughly two hours left by my memory.

[M] Dave Stepdad
11-24-2012, 05:00 AM
Rikku;3170042']:confused: I'm not miffed, slick.

That's good, because you have been an asset too, a voice of reason in a sea of chaos.

[M] Athena
11-24-2012, 05:05 AM
I've never doubted you, Wedge. Now you have Penelo saying you are a Serial Killer. What do you say to that?

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-24-2012, 05:13 AM
Wedge;3170044']a sea of chaos.

Why thank you.

I'd have to say it's a mere at most, though. Maybe even just an inland pond.

[M] Apollo
11-24-2012, 05:15 AM
Penelo;3169695']So far, I've investigated most nights, though I was away for night two and here are my results:

Night One - Investigated Yuffie (25 players, it's a crapshoot) and came up innocent.

Night Three - Investigated Wakka, again came up innocent.

Night Four - Investigated Wedge and got a guilty result.


Rikku;3169703']Apparently I didn't have a Night 4 action due to inactivity. Sorry for not being as useful as I could have been.


If the time passes and the night actions haven't been submitted I will randomise the choice/result which should play even more havoc with your poor, poor minds :radred:

I was about to call both of you out on this, but with Jiro's latest clarification, I'm not so sure.
There's a 50/50 chance that you didn't get a result on the two nights that you claimed, so that's still probably :/. If you are lying about your roles though, why bother claiming that you missed a night? It could be a cover up to explain inactivity, as you were both rather inactive, yet both now claim to have submitted a bunch of night actions.
Not sure how to feel here.
I've only just skimmed what I've missed, and I will be here till end of day, but at the moment I'm going to read through in a little more detail.

Will post my thoughts as I go, so do excuse me if I repeat things that others have mentioned, or if my posts aren't on topic :p

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-24-2012, 05:22 AM
Read carefully, Leon. You decide who lives and who dies.

No pressure.

[M] Dave Stepdad
11-24-2012, 05:30 AM
Rikku;3170045']I've never doubted you, Wedge. Now you have Penelo saying you are a Serial Killer. What do you say to that?

Anyone who jumped on the "lynch Biggs" bandwagon is on my scumbag list of suspects. Scum will say anything to make townies look bad.

[M] Dave Stepdad
11-24-2012, 05:53 AM
I have been thinking about it and I am sorry Paul, but I can't see as far ahead as you can. I posted my beliefs about Relm and I really believe Relm is scum so I should stick to what I know. I guess it was unfortunate that I had to leave just as you tired out so that I can't get a line on your thinking. If you are correct and Faris and Relm are in it together against a more populated mafia team wouldn't it be better to rub out the team with smaller numbers so that we can limit the number of night kills? This would be reasonable in my eyes. I'm willing to entertain your team theory and to investigate those who've you pointed out but I think I need to stick to what I know.

##Unvote: [M] Wakka
##Vote: [M] Relm

[M] Apollo
11-24-2012, 06:02 AM
Luneth;3169933']Wakka needs to die. And it needs to be today. Sorry kids, can't tell you why. There is a compelling reason and it'll be obvious if you help me on this. I don't want to post it though because I think it'll help Wakka and his mafia friend(s)? (I assume there were 5 of them) If you need more information to trust me then I'm afraid you'll just have to not trust me. Some of you may already know the reason, I think.

Faris is both disappointing and intriguing me, and I have to wonder what's going on there. Balthier hasn't been here since he put down a vote. The other two I understand and they won't change their votes. Cid, Wedge, won't vote. That means I have one hope.

LEON!
Luneth;3169885']
Biggs;3168760']Here's what I don't like. I don't like Wakka and Leila's vote switch to Yuffie at the end of Day 4 once the votes were stacking up for Blank. It smells bad. Real bad.

Luneth;3168772']Wakka has not done much good. You commented on his vote for Yuffie but I also find his other votes interesting. He voted for Noctis for being irritating and today he has voted for Penelo who has been inactive. To put this in other words he has voted for people who are unlikely to be actually lynched for very poor reasoning.Please consider this information. Thank you.

The guy knows how to get my attention.

My opinion of Wedge, as of this post ^^ (you can see how far behind I am - though I'll come to some sort of conclusion last minute), is that he was (is) a little bit annoying and low flying. Like real low flying. Superficial. No substance.
I get the feeling that Wedge does have a juicy role though. Something that makes him return from bed or that delicious turkey, to just check on the town and do his cool role thing. No idea what that role is, but it must be something nifty.
Who is it between at the moment? A quick skim tells me Wakka and Relm, and tbh, they both strike me as scummy. They're both annoying. But at the moment Wakka is looking worse in my books. Once I'm with everyone, I'll give something more definitive.

While I catch up everyone, why not discuss the absence of Cid and Balthier?
Cid especially. That dude should have been replaced wayyy ahead of anyone else, right? Unless he is actually here.
Just sayin'

[M] Athena
11-24-2012, 06:11 AM
Leon;3170061']While I catch up everyone, why not discuss the absence of Cid and Balthier?
Cid especially. That dude should have been replaced wayyy ahead of anyone else, right? Unless he is actually here.
Just sayin'
What is there to discuss? They're not here and it sucks and that's about it.

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
11-24-2012, 06:18 AM
Yah i got a "whisper" in my ear which i coukd only assume was wedge. It was about relm and how she's not what she appears so, with a confrimation like that i went for the relm vote.

Also I had to work black Friday, hence my absense.

[M] Athena
11-24-2012, 06:23 AM
And that's that.

Good work team!

[M] Apollo
11-24-2012, 06:29 AM
Rydia;3170051']Read carefully, Leon. You decide who lives and who dies.

No pressure.
Cheers.
Ok, so at the moment Relm is one vote from death.
I had put up the who Cid/Balthier suggestion, before reading the whole two mafias thing (which explains why Luneth thought I would follow his lead, as I theorized that earlier), as I figured Cid seemed too suspicious in his lack of replacement.
Maybe he's that 4th unknown member of the mafia faction that Luneth was talking about.

But that is pointless at the moment. It's down to two people, and I have to pick between them it seems.
The main reason I'm leaning toward Wakka over Relm is because of Refia's thoughts on the entire town. I don't know what scope her role covered, but she is another confirmed investigative role in this sea of claimed investigators (seriously, it seems that everyone is a damn investigator, and I think at least one of them is lying).
There issue here is that Refia only said "[M] Wakka - Again another poster who pops in says hi then vanishes. His under the radar approach irks me a bit, but not enough to call definite scum." about Wakka in that large post (but had put suspicion on him at other times too).
This is only a pretty weak accusation, but it's the best I have at the moment.

[M] Apollo
11-24-2012, 06:31 AM
Balthier;3170069']Yah i got a "whisper" in my ear which i coukd only assume was wedge. It was about relm and how she's not what she appears so, with a confrimation like that i went for the relm vote.

Also I had to work black Friday, hence my absense.

Ah, right, well, hmm. I should refresh before I post, huh?
This fits I suppose, but why didn't you post this in your first post of the day, I understand that you were busy, but just a few words?

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
11-24-2012, 06:36 AM
I mentioned who it was, voted them, stated the info i got and was waiting for wedge to confirm. It didn't tell me who said the whusper, just that there was one. Wedge would have known but I didn't want to bring unwarranted attention. Plus I posted before I left for work. I hate black friday. It needs to die

[M] Apollo
11-24-2012, 06:41 AM
Balthier;3170074']I mentioned who it was, voted them, stated the info i got and was waiting for wedge to confirm. It didn't tell me who said the whusper, just that there was one. Wedge would have known but I didn't want to bring unwarranted attention. Plus I posted before I left for work. I hate black friday. It needs to die

When did you state the info?
Do mean in that post just before?

Jiro
11-24-2012, 06:44 AM
So like, 15 minutes remaining, kupo. :mog:

Relm is one away from a majority lynch. Leon and Cid left to vote.
[M] Relm (5) - Balthier, Rikku, Faris, Wakka, Wedge
[M] Wakka (3) - Rydia, Luneth, Relm, Wedge
[M] Wedge (1) - Penelo

[M] Apollo
11-24-2012, 06:45 AM
I just have this terrible feeling that if there are two mafias, one is currently manipulating the town to remove the other.
I feel that Wakka or Relm could flip scum, or both! But which would be the best scum to remove?

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
11-24-2012, 06:46 AM
In the post I made when I voted relm.

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-24-2012, 06:47 AM
Leon;3170077']I just have this terrible feeling that if there are two mafias

There are not two mafias.

[M] Athena
11-24-2012, 06:48 AM
Leon;3170077']I just have this terrible feeling that if there are two mafias, one is currently manipulating the town to remove the other.
I feel that Wakka or Relm could flip scum, or both! But which would be the best scum to remove?
The one where two townies are confirming something is wrong with them.

For all we know Wakka could be innocent. For all we know Balthier could be in the other mafia. But at some point we'll need to get Relm so why not now?

[M] Apollo
11-24-2012, 06:49 AM
So what you're saying is that I can either confirm Relm's quite likely death at the moment, or bolster the attack against Wakka in the hopes that we can buy more time if someone evens the score.
I feel as though I have no choice here.

Jiro
11-24-2012, 06:50 AM
10 minutes kupo!!! :mog:

[M] Apollo
11-24-2012, 06:51 AM
Balthier;3170078']In the post I made when I voted relm.

Balthier;3169502']I'm at a turkey day thjng so i can't write too much out but, i find relm to be more than they appear. They were dead set on biggs yesterday even after he claimed. For now,

##vote: relm

The "more than they appear" part?

[M] Kurt - Cool Dad
11-24-2012, 06:55 AM
Yup! That was what was in my whisper and so thats what I said. I figured I could say more when wedge showed up and confirmed it but I wasnt positive that was wedges role. But then wedge didn't show up til after I left for my long workday.

Jiro
11-24-2012, 06:56 AM
FIVE MINUTES KUPO!!!!! :mog:

[M] Athena
11-24-2012, 06:58 AM
Remember, if Wedge's role is confirmed then that means Penelo is the scum of the earth since her FBI claim is total BS.

Jiro
11-24-2012, 06:58 AM
[M] Relm is facing the lynch! Going once.....

Jiro
11-24-2012, 06:58 AM
Going twice........!

[M] Apollo
11-24-2012, 06:59 AM
Look. I can't decide between them. There are strong reasons for and against both of them. I really depends on whose claim I trust at the moment, and I don't have enough time to decide that.
I'm fairly convinced by what Balthier has just said to me, but regardless, my vote won't change the outcome of this lynch, and being the last vote on people has never worked out well for me.

Jiro
11-24-2012, 06:59 AM
Going three times........!

[M] Dave Stepdad
11-24-2012, 07:00 AM
Not voting is a vote for Relm

[M] Mike - Funny Dad
11-24-2012, 07:01 AM
Taking bets on how long it takes Jiro to realize he's posting on the wrong account