Steam console confirmed; everyone else can pack it up and go home

[Pike]

Valve confirms Steam Box - a "very controlled" PC for the living room | News | PC Gamer (http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/12/09/valve-confirms-steam-box-a-very-controlled-pc-for-the-living-room/)


Gabe Newell appears to have confirmed rumours that Valve are working on a “Steam Box” – a hardware package designed to bring the PC right to the living room. Talking to Kotaku on the red carpet at the VGAs, Newell said that the response to Big Picture mode was “stronger than expected” and that this, combined with the ongoing push into Linux, gave Valve a lot of flexibility when it came to designing their own living room-friendly hardware.

Thoughts?

[Mirage]

Might be cool. Might be not so cool.

Which OS will it run? Will it be windows, letting it run all current steam games without modifying them at all, or some sort of -nix derivate, requiring most games to be modified at least a tiny bit?

[Balzac]

Isn't this what Big Screen was supposed to be for?

[Mirage]

Depends entirely on what Big Screen is.

[Balzac]

Sorry, I meant Big Picture. The Steam client made for Smart tv's.

[Futan]

Speculation from this article (http://www.theverge.com/2012/12/8/3744314/gabe-newell-valve-console-living-room-steam-box) is it's Linux-based. With how MS is admittedly(and obviously) trying to merge Phone and Desktop OS's (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10/22/gates_windows8_phone8_merger/), and therefore create their own App Store ecosystem, it'd be no surprise if Valve is trying to migrate away from Windows. Since said App Store would be competition w/ Steam(and you possibly would have to use that App Store to even get Steam). But if it is Linux, and companies jump aboard that plan, it would be awesome. buhbyes last reason to use Windows. :x

As a preferably PC gamer, I hope it succeeds. :3

[Sephex]

Color me interested, but waiting for more details (especially price) to pass real judgement.

[Laddy]

This has a lot of potential.

[DMKA]

Could be neat. Could also be pointless like the Ouya.

Hmmm...who knows? If games I like actually got put on steam (Final Fantasy, or Ratchet and Clank, for example) I'd be down with it.

I'm all for giving the consumer more choices, particularly in the video game medium, so more power to Gabe and friends.

[Bolivar]

Personally I think Valve is too big to let any of Microsoft's ambitions phase them. Steam is THE place to buy and play games on PC, there's just too much money and support there to see it get marginalized or undercut in any way.

That said, I don't know if making or sponsoring a console is a good move for Valve. I'm really not feeling Big Picture. When you boot a game from it, it still runs in the same inappropriate resolution for your TV. Even when you try basic things, like going to your Steam profile page, it opens it up in a web browser. The default Steam web browser, mind you, not this "first person" browser they're hyping up. Controller support is limited, and I'm not sure sticking with XInput is a good way to differentiate yourself from Microsoft, especially when you have the same buttons listed on the prompts. You also can't run media content from elsewhere on your computer as you would expect a console or really any PC-TV interface to do.

In short, it's a controller-compatible interface... and strangely, nothing else. I can't imagine why they decided it was ready to drop the beta designation.

[Aulayna]

Could go either way really. Though right now honestly the last thing my living room needs is another console taking up space.

[Slothy]

That said, I don't know if making or sponsoring a console is a good move for Valve. I'm really not feeling Big Picture. When you boot a game from it, it still runs in the same inappropriate resolution for your TV. Even when you try basic things, like going to your Steam profile page, it opens it up in a web browser. The default Steam web browser, mind you, not this "first person" browser they're hyping up. Controller support is limited, and I'm not sure sticking with XInput is a good way to differentiate yourself from Microsoft, especially when you have the same buttons listed on the prompts. You also can't run media content from elsewhere on your computer as you would expect a console or really any PC-TV interface to do.

In short, it's a controller-compatible interface... and strangely, nothing else. I can't imagine why they decided it was ready to drop the beta designation.

I'm not sure why you would judge the ability for a Valve console to succeed based on the level of support a new Steam interface on PC. And if that's not what you're doing, then I'm not sure why you'd bring up support/compatibility with Big Picture mode at all. An actual Valve console would likely be a different beast entirely.

But honestly, I hope they do get into the hardware game and use a Linux based box. Game support is one of the few things holding me back from switching to a Linux distro, and Valve is already making a big push that way. A Linux based console from them would undoubtedly push Linux support a lot farther if it took off, which being Valve, it stands a better chance of taking off than any other new entrant in the console game.

[Pike]

Re: Games on Linux -

Yeah, I used Linux exclusively-- EXCLUSIVELY-- for like six years. Played quite a few games on Linux, too, via Wine, but it was usually a big giant pain on the butt. I finally got tired of trying to wrestle with that and emulation and reluctantly switched to Win7 earlier this year.

Lemme tell you though; the minute more games start working on Linux is the minute I go back to it. Linux has made some huge strides over the last several years; in the six years that I used it I saw desktop Linux go from still being very buggy and console-based to being largely plug-and-play. Stable as all get out, too; never crashes or freezes up on me, unlike dear ol' Win7. I just want to switch back. :( Come on, Gaben, pull through for me!

[NeoCracker]

The only thing I wonder is there stuff you can get on their console you can't already get from their PC market?

If not, I really don't see the point.

[Shoeberto]

The only thing I wonder is there stuff you can get on their console you can't already get from their PC market?

If not, I really don't see the point.
It's not really a console, it's a plug-and-play living room PC that'll be geared towards running Steam exclusively. So if they go with Linux as their distro, which is likely, it'll be limited to whatever studios port over. But with how much Valve is trying to entice studios to make Linux ports, the game could be getting shaken up a lot in coming years.

Valve is mostly doing this for people who want the Steam experience but don't want to build a PC, but they're always gonna cater to anyone who wants to build their own machine. They want as open of an eco system as possible for gaming to continue innovation - the reason they're a brilliant company is because of how they've pushed for these sorts of things for so long but still have been incredibly successful at monetizing it.

[NeoCracker]

The only thing I wonder is there stuff you can get on their console you can't already get from their PC market?

If not, I really don't see the point.
It's not really a console, it's a plug-and-play living room PC that'll be geared towards running Steam exclusively. So if they go with Linux as their distro, which is likely, it'll be limited to whatever studios port over. But with how much Valve is trying to entice studios to make Linux ports, the game could be getting shaken up a lot in coming years.

Valve is mostly doing this for people who want the Steam experience but don't want to build a PC, but they're always gonna cater to anyone who wants to build their own machine. They want as open of an eco system as possible for gaming to continue innovation - the reason they're a brilliant company is because of how they've pushed for these sorts of things for so long but still have been incredibly successful at monetizing it.

Well, as soon as some good games get announced, I might pick it up when it's available then. :p

[Del Murder]

Where do you put the cartridge in?

[Futan]

Personally I think Valve is too big to let any of Microsoft's ambitions phase them. Steam is THE place to buy and play games on PC, there's just too much money and support there to see it get marginalized or undercut in any way.

If Microsoft, come Windows 9 or 10 when it's pure Metro, continue the App Store-only philosophy, where you can only get Metro apps from the App Store, they could tell Valve that they want a x% cut of revenue(MS already does it with Apps on their store) and if Valve says no, then no Steam on Windows. Even if Valve agrees(which would be likely) and there is Steam on Windows, it will produce much less revenue per unit for Valve than the other OS's. So obviously it's in Valve's best interest to get away from Windows.

Also remember that XIV isn't going to be on 360 for a similar reason. MS wanted a cut from the monthly fees. So it isn't past MS to try something like this as well. Especially since the whole merging OS's is mainly a power grab for the money to begin with.

[Bolivar]

^ I can't see that being anything other than the death of Windows. The app-store only philosophy works for closed devices where you expect (relatively) limited functionality, but it would be the complete opposite of what a personal computer is supposed to be. With everyone wanting macs, manufacturers creating chromebooks, and Linux making the strides Pike says it has, I can't see how Microsoft could possibly survive such a decision.



I'm not sure why you would judge the ability for a Valve console to succeed based on the level of support a new Steam interface on PC. And if that's not what you're doing, then I'm not sure why you'd bring up support/compatibility with Big Picture mode at all.

What could be more relevant to this discussion than the half-assedness Valve has already displayed on their first foray into the controller-based living room?

[Shoeberto]

^ I can't see that being anything other than the death of Windows. The app-store only philosophy works for closed devices where you expect (relatively) limited functionality, but it would be the complete opposite of what a personal computer is supposed to be. With everyone wanting macs, manufacturers creating chromebooks, and Linux making the strides Pike says it has, I can't see how Microsoft could possibly survive such a decision.
That's where MS sees the future, though - tablets and phones. Which isn't necessarily a horrible business move, considering how Apple and Android already have the market cornered. They're basically risking alienating their desktop users by putting all their chips on mobile, which is really damn risky, but honestly could be a huge boon to them since they're falling so far behind in such a booming arena.

Ultimately what we're witnessing right now is an enormous paradigm shift in personal computing and MS is having to play a lot of catch-up. Linux has a huge opportunity here to surge as the open platform of choice and with Valve and Google being huge driving forces behind it (remember, Android is Linux-based) we could see some pretty damn fascinating developments in the coming years. I don't think MS is gonna die off but they're going to look verrrrrrrrrry different in 10 years compared to the MS we've known since the '90s. But that's tech - you evolve or die. Regardless, it's a good time to be paying attention to the industry.

[Slothy]

What could be more relevant to this discussion than the half-assedness Valve has already displayed on their first foray into the controller-based living room?

So your argument is that because games which were made before Big Picture mode was a thing aren't 100% integrated with it that a Steam console might be a bad idea? Come on now Bolivar, that is some pretty flimsy logic.

And for what it's worth, I just tried using Big Picture mode with a controller to get into and play CS: GO right now. The whole thing was quite seamless. I wouldn't typically use it just the same because a controller interface is of no use to me on my PC, but so long as the support and integration improve (which is a non-issue when discussing a hypothetical Steam box), I can see people benefiting from it quite a bit who want to play that way. Hell, for any controller supporting games out there I don't see why there'd be any issues using it right now.

But again, given that integration and support for a controller based UI is a non-issue for a dedicated piece of gaming hardware since Valve can mandate that integration for anyone releasing on the platform, I fail to see why a few growing pains for a new feature on a platform where the controller is not the traditional interface of choice leads you to question the wisdom of what would amount to a home console really. They're two completely different things, and integrating a controller UI on a console from the day it's released is a lot easier than trying to drum up support on a platform that didn't see much controller use for the last 30-40 years.

It just seems like you're trying to criticize the idea of them making a console based on problems from a completely unrelated product feature which would never be an issue on a piece of dedicated gaming hardware.

[Shoeberto]

But again, given that integration and support for a controller based UI is a non-issue for a dedicated piece of gaming hardware since Valve can mandate that integration for anyone releasing on the platform, I fail to see why a few growing pains for a new feature on a platform where the controller is not the traditional interface of choice leads you to question the wisdom of what would amount to a home console really. They're two completely different things, and integrating a controller UI on a console from the day it's released is a lot easier than trying to drum up support on a platform that didn't see much controller use for the last 30-40 years.
Yeah, I see room for improvement in Big Picture, but it's a damn good start. I've had my PC set up in my living room for months now and being able to use it like a console is fantastic. Plenty of devs are on board for where PC gaming is going so I see more support coming in the future. Not to mention how easy it'd be to get software wrappers to provide controller support; I was amazed recently when a game from 1996 off of GOG worked seamlessly with my wireless 360 controller, but the content providers gave enough TLC to the release that it went without a hitch. And with the kind of push Valve is making to support devs in updating their titles to best support the platform I could see more games going that direction.

[Bolivar]

It just seems like you're trying to criticize the idea of them making a console based on problems from a completely unrelated product feature which would never be an issue on a piece of dedicated gaming hardware.

For the third time, it's not just the impotency of Big Picture, which I've already written extensively about, but the disingenuous attitude indicated by the inadequacy of its official release.

[Slothy]

For the third time, it's not just the impotency of Big Picture, which I've already written extensively about, but the disingenuous attitude indicated by the inadequacy of its official release.

How is it actually inadequate though? Honestly now? Because every game on Steam doesn't integrate perfectly and support it? Excuse me if I find that a poor criticism of a brand spanking new feature. Support will come in time if companies want to and if Valve pushes for it. If anything, a Steam console will insure even more support for it. Again, I think your criticism is pretty off base. A brand new PC interface having some minor growing pains (again, from my limited experience with it I had no issues at all) isn't all that relevant to the question of whether a console made by Valve is a good idea. The two aren't related. Especially when your entire criticism is that not every game supports it, and it has some issues with integrating seamlessly on a TV. These aren't issues a dedicated console built from the ground up on both the software and hardware fronts faces. Support from third party titles is not a problem when support can be mandated on a dedicated console.

I honestly just don't understand why you think a Steam console will have the same problems that the first release of Big Picture mode has. Which is what this thread is about: the possibility of a Steam console, not the initial release and continued development of Big Picture mode. Moreover, I think it's more than a little naive to believe that a UI which already works well in many respects will not be further improved, particularly with the additional feedback they'll get from going public with it instead of keeping it as an optional Beta. Obviously it's going to get better, especially if they do go the console route. But even as it is, it works quite well right now for what it absolutely needs to do: using your game library and playing games.

This is how Valve works on small features like Big Picture mode: they make it, release it, get feedback, and continually iterate. It's one of the reasons that the end product they come up with is almost always better than everything the competition puts out.

[Jiro]

More interested in seeing how everybody else reacts to it than the thing itself tbh.

[Bolivar]

How is it actually inadequate though? Honestly now?

Um, I listed about 4-5 reasons in my original post on why it's inadequate if you care to know, and none of them were "not every game supports it." :roll2 In fact, that's the recurring problem with Big Picture: there are no support features for games to integrate. It's just a Store and Library browser, nothing is different than when you otherwise plug your PC into a TV.

Something being improved in the future doesn't curtail criticism of it now. And no, you can't mandate developers to integrate features for past titles. A lot of games coming out today still don't have Steam Achievements or the in-game Shift+Tab interface. That does not bode well for the big incentive to use Steam: the ridiculous deals on recent and older games. Most of the allure of a Steam box dissipates when all of its library up to the launch does not integrate well.

I'll try again for a fourth time: Big Picture's official release makes me skeptical of Valve's ability to execute on its console ambitions.

[Futan]

A lot of games coming out today still don't have Steam Achievements or the in-game Shift+Tab interface.

Hm? Any games started with Steam should have the Shift+Tab interface, even if it's a game not even available on Steam. It's just hooked into it.

[Bolivar]

Nope. Not older games like F.E.A.R. and not even some newer games like Black Ops II.

[Futan]

Nope. Not older games like F.E.A.R. and not even some newer games like Black Ops II.

That's weird. :-/ I've had no problem with it, even with games like XIV and FIFA, both of which aren't on Steam and actually open a separate program before starting the game itself(account login and Origin).

I'll have to try it with some older games sometime.

[Bolivar]

Hm, that is really werid, I just double checked for those two games and didn't work, but it was fine for F.E.A.R. 2. Maybe there's something wrong with my settings or something.

[Skyblade]

^ I can't see that being anything other than the death of Windows. The app-store only philosophy works for closed devices where you expect (relatively) limited functionality, but it would be the complete opposite of what a personal computer is supposed to be. With everyone wanting macs, manufacturers creating chromebooks, and Linux making the strides Pike says it has, I can't see how Microsoft could possibly survive such a decision.

Apple has been using the "only do what we want you to do" philosophy for years. It's why we call Macs "Baby's First Computers".

[Bolivar]

Well, that's not necessarily true of their Mac PCs. The big thing holding back what you can do on Macs is the reality that developers just don't care about making their software compatible for them.

[Futan]

It's worth noting that Mac is seemingly heading in the same direction. Not so much merging OS's but the App Store-only part. With Mountain Lion, by default you can only install programs by developers who are signed up with the Mac App Store.

But like Pike and Linux, I love OSX but I just really got sick of setting up games for it. So back to Windows, I am~