Positive Portrayals of Women in Video Games

[Forsaken Lover]

So this was a pretty lively thread on SomethingAwful so I thought I'd steal the idea and see what responses people here have.

Which women in gaming are actually good characters ie. not brainless beauties in need of saving or some skankified "badass"?

I realize it's probably not the most obvious choice considering the series but I really don't like The Boss. So I'm gonna say another MGS female.

Olga Gurlukovich - Metal Gear Solid 2
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg216/NikKingMan/Olga.jpg

A skilled soldier with a very deep connection to her war buddies. Nevertheless, she was forced into a most unenviable position - to sacrifice one family for her actual family. She did everything for her baby and when it came time to make the ultimate sacrifice, she lamented what she had done and made no excuses.

She was really just one of the strongest and most respectable characters in the series.

[Mirage]

I agree. Olga is a real badass.

Even if you don't personally like her though, the Boss is a pretty solid woman as well.

[krissy]

jade from bge

http://www.filmoria.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Beyond-Good-Evil.jpg

i guess alyx vance from half life is a good one, but i never really liked her as much as everyone said so

april ryan from Longest Journey is a pretty cool lady

chell doesn't count i think because she has no personality really. then again, not that i think about it, she does, with a very subtle intense determination to be free. maybe there's more layers to portal than i've thought about.

[Mirage]

When I first played Portal I thought I was some sort of robot who had recently become self aware. Then I got disappointed.

I'm trying to find a picture of Olga in her ninja getup, but I'm not having any luck. I mean I can find Olga, and I can find the cyborg ninja, but I can't find one with the visor transparent.

FF11 has a lot of supporting/minor, but still named female characters that are pretty crucial to the success of various events in the game, including the all-out war that took place as well, and they're not exactly given desk jobs. I could name a few, but I'd want to refresh my memory a bit first. It has been a while since I played through the story parts in that game.

In either case, guess I should go pictalicious too.
39903


And here's Ayame from FF11. She is a "generic character model", sadly, but that's not really important because 95% of all significant NPCs are in that game.
39905
She's a samurai, and a relatively high ranking member of the Bastokan military. She plays an important role in many of the missions you for that nation.

I'd also say that Mitsuru from Persona 3 is a pretty good character.

Then we also have Lenneth from Valkyrie Profile.
39907

[krissy]

samus aran too i guess


http://24.media.tumblr.com/9f68d9d63fe361432e49d548e4c8a066/tumblr_mhgdwbjk3M1qequmpo1_500.jpg


and this doesn't really count but my saints row 3 main character is an ass kicking red head 30 something with aviators

[DrAssenov]

39904
Alyx from Half-Life 2. She's super smart, a great partner, and never seems to run out of ammo (at least so far in the game I'm playing XD)

I also really like how she's like, dressed appropriately for what she needs to get done (e.g. kicking butt, hacking systems, etc.) She is awesome for who she is, not what she looks like (although she's actually really pretty.)

[KentaRawr!]

samus aran too i guess


http://24.media.tumblr.com/9f68d9d63fe361432e49d548e4c8a066/tumblr_mhgdwbjk3M1qequmpo1_500.jpg


and this doesn't really count but my saints row 3 main character is an ass kicking red head 30 something with aviators

I disagree with Samus being a positive portrayal, actually. In the original Metroid, her being a woman was treated as a revelation as though it should be surprising that a woman could star in a game like that, and her having less clothing is a reward for beating the games quicker. And then there was Other M. :P

[Madame Adequate]

ITT sensibly-dressed women

[Mirage]

That's a good thing, right?

[Laddy]

Obsidian knows how to write positive females. Hell, Fallout: NV has some of the best portrayals of women in any game I've seen in recent years.

[Skyblade]

samus aran too i guess


http://24.media.tumblr.com/9f68d9d63fe361432e49d548e4c8a066/tumblr_mhgdwbjk3M1qequmpo1_500.jpg


and this doesn't really count but my saints row 3 main character is an ass kicking red head 30 something with aviators

I disagree with Samus being a positive portrayal, actually. In the original Metroid, her being a woman was treated as a revelation as though it should be surprising that a woman could star in a game like that, and her having less clothing is a reward for beating the games quicker. And then there was Other M. :P

Two out of ten isn't bad.

And, to be fair, in the first one it was surprising that a woman could star in such a role. It had never been done before (in videogames). And most of the rest of the series did do her justice, especially Fusion.


39908

Frimelda Lotice, from Final Fantasy Tactics A2: Grimoire of the Rift.

Her femininity plays a fairly important role in her story, and yet she's never sexualized, and plays against most of the common stereotypes of female characters.

[NeoCracker]

Naoto from persona four is not only one of the best portrayals of a female, but one of the best portrayals of a character in general.

[Night Fury]

Seriously.

No mention for Lara Croft yet?
Tali from Mass Effect
Liara from Mass Effect
Heck, even Miranda Lawson!

39915

[Mirage]

I avoided Liara because she is introduced by needing to be saved from the baddies.

[Night Fury]

I avoided Liara because she is introduced by needing to be saved from the baddies.

But she goes on to be a total badass, and the Shadow Broker.

[Loony BoB]

Which women in gaming are actually good characters ie. not brainless beauties in need of saving or some skankified "badass"?
Almost every female character I've ever seen in a game, to be honest.

Many people out there think that females are treated unfairly in video games because they are portrayed as brainless beauties or skankified badasses. I say that it is how players interpret the character that is wrong, and perhaps if the characters were male they would not be so upset about their characters. Essentially, the sexism is still in the head of the player, not the character. FFXIV's official forums were a great example of people jumping to conclusions of sexism. When gladiator gear was released, some people were upset about how incredibly revealing the female's gear was. Others, in retaliation, laughed - because the male's gear was just as revealing, if not more so.

It's not sexist to put girls into ridiculous and revealing attire for a role if the guys are wearing equally ridiculous and revealing attire. It's just a design choice. I don't see anything wrong with the "skankified badass" because people generally assume they are skanky because of what they wear, not their actual attitude. I've not seen many skanks in video games.

As for brainless beauties, I don't see all that many of them, either. Some of them are ditzy, sure, but most lead male characters I've come across have their moments, too. Vaan and Bartz are great examples of this.

Every portrayal of a woman in a video game tends to be just fine as far as I'm concerned. Not every character has to be the perfect role model - like in the real world, some women have different strengths than others and being constantly serious doesn't somehow make someone better than someone who is capable of being silly or following their heart.

If I had to pick a positive portrayal of a character in general that happens to be female, I would probably echo krissy's sentiment and say April Ryan, or perhaps Zoë Castillo from Dreamfall. They can be serious, but they don't have to be. They have their "duh" moments, but they're intelligent. They can beat people up, but they're not superpowered. They're genuine people. I like them. Tifa, from Final Fantasy VII, is one of my favourite characters of all time (although I don't know how much of the Compilation I would include in that, I'm more focusing on the main game).

Ignoring Liara because she needed to be saved? What, because no guy has ever needed saving? Or perhaps because needing saving makes you a terrible, weak person? Pretty sure the majority of characters in video games get saved at some point. I would say someone who is always the hero and never needing to be saved is not being portrayed realistically.

[CimminyCricket]

39908

Frimelda Lotice, from Final Fantasy Tactics A2: Grimoire of the Rift.

Her femininity plays a fairly important role in her story, and yet she's never sexualized, and plays against most of the common stereotypes of female characters.

I couldn't agree more. I really liked Frimelda.

[blackmage_nuke]

Going with the MGS train, Mei Ling and Para-Medic. Not Rose.

[TrollHunter]

39908

Frimelda Lotice, from Final Fantasy Tactics A2: Grimoire of the Rift.

Her femininity plays a fairly important role in her story, and yet she's never sexualized, and plays against most of the common stereotypes of female characters.

I couldn't agree more. I really liked Frimelda.

Indeed. She had an awesomely deep character for a side mission
Favorite secret character ever. She would always end up as my hardest hitter ^^

[Forsaken Lover]

Which women in gaming are actually good characters ie. not brainless beauties in need of saving or some skankified "badass"?
Almost every female character I've ever seen in a game, to be honest.

Many people out there think that females are treated unfairly in video games because they are portrayed as brainless beauties or skankified badasses. I say that it is how players interpret the character that is wrong, and perhaps if the characters were male they would not be so upset about their characters. Essentially, the sexism is still in the head of the player, not the character. FFXIV's official forums were a great example of people jumping to conclusions of sexism. When gladiator gear was released, some people were upset about how incredibly revealing the female's gear was. Others, in retaliation, laughed - because the male's gear was just as revealing, if not more so.

It's not sexist to put girls into ridiculous and revealing attire for a role if the guys are wearing equally ridiculous and revealing attire. It's just a design choice. I don't see anything wrong with the "skankified badass" because people generally assume they are skanky because of what they wear, not their actual attitude. I've not seen many skanks in video games.

As for brainless beauties, I don't see all that many of them, either. Some of them are ditzy, sure, but most lead male characters I've come across have their moments, too. Vaan and Bartz are great examples of this.

Every portrayal of a woman in a video game tends to be just fine as far as I'm concerned. Not every character has to be the perfect role model - like in the real world, some women have different strengths than others and being constantly serious doesn't somehow make someone better than someone who is capable of being silly or following their heart.

If I had to pick a positive portrayal of a character in general that happens to be female, I would probably echo krissy's sentiment and say April Ryan, or perhaps Zoë Castillo from Dreamfall. They can be serious, but they don't have to be. They have their "duh" moments, but they're intelligent. They can beat people up, but they're not superpowered. They're genuine people. I like them. Tifa, from Final Fantasy VII, is one of my favourite characters of all time (although I don't know how much of the Compilation I would include in that, I'm more focusing on the main game).

Ignoring Liara because she needed to be saved? What, because no guy has ever needed saving? Or perhaps because needing saving makes you a terrible, weak person? Pretty sure the majority of characters in video games get saved at some point. I would say someone who is always the hero and never needing to be saved is not being portrayed realistically.

What's your justification then for things like Bayonetta?
New Bayonetta posters play on her ample assets | Lazygamer .:: The Worlds Best Video Game News ::. | PS3 (http://www.lazygamer.net/xbox-360/new-bayonetta-posters-play-on-her-ample-assets/)

No doubt there are whackos of every sort who jump the gun and scream FOUL at any ridiculous thing. For instance, I have no problem with a female being madly in love or stuff like that. Some people consider Elly from Xenogears to be the ultimate female stereotype but I never thought so because she was an interesting character and I don't get the impression the writers designed her to be some massive sexist cliche.

But characters like Bayonetta were intended from the start to be nothing but objects of teenage hormones.

[Mirage]

Bayonetta is as much a woman as the main characters in Priscilla.

[Loony BoB]

I didn't say there were no skanky badass women, did I? :p I'm just surprised people seem to think that positive portrayals of women in games are something that is not standard.

Bayonetta was very witty and outrageous, although perhaps skanky isn't the best word for her. She seemed comfortable with nudity. She loved to tease. She wore provocative clothing. But it seemed to me that this was her choice - I know girls who really enjoyed the character of Bayonetta, but she was clearly not adored as a role model. I don't think we've seen many people jumping nude down the streets, beating up people and whipping their hair around. xD

I don't know. Perhaps it just doesn't sit right that there should be such a thing as a "positive portrayal of a woman" because it suggests that women should be a certain way, and I disagree with that.

[TrollHunter]

You know, there are a bunch of really mean guys in video games, i think its an unfair portrayal of men.

[Forsaken Lover]

You know, there are a bunch of really mean guys in video games, i think its an unfair portrayal of men.

Well undoubtedly there are many masculine stereotypes in gaming that are bad as well.

I don't think anyone is gong around seriously saying Duke Nukem is how men are and should be.


Going with the MGS train, Mei Ling and Para-Medic. Not Rose.

I liked Rose.

If any women in MGS are bad portrayals of women, it's the Beauties.

[TrollHunter]

The point i was making is that this unfair representation is ridiculous
There are strong women, weak women, attention obsessed women, vain women, wise women, dumb women, smart women, skanky women, nudist women, kind women

See what im saying?

EDIT: Removed the last sentence because it was a baseless attack that made absolutely no sense in the context of this thread. Don't even know why I said that.

[Madame Adequate]

Bayonetta is a very complicated character to examine from a feminist perspective.

[black orb]

brainless beauties in need of saving or some skankified "badass"?
>>> I dont see the negative part on this, after all these are the kind of girls that most of the fans love and idolize..:luca:

[Del Murder]

BoB, you are disillusioned. But I don't want to get into it with you. I also assume you have never played Super Mario Bros.

I think Commander Shepherd from Mass Effect is a good example. Sure, the default character is male, but female Shepherd plays the exact same way with the same abilities and is treated the same throughout the plot. Only your romance choices differ, and even then not in all cases. ;)

[DMKA]

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/20300000/Indifferent-mirrors-edge-20347856-459-640.png

[krissy]

faith's great


Not all women in games are walking sex toys pr damsels in distress, thats just your paranoia talking.

i don't think anyone's saying that all sorts of females and males AREN'T represented in gaming. but the extent, and the kind of impact it has is probably worth a discussion, isn't it? if it's all just moot and there's a legitimate argument that gaming as a medium isn't, on average, disingenuous to specific groups of people in terms of portrayal and storytelling, then we'll just show it and be on our merry way. i actually think that gaming is a more refined look at society than popular film, for example. but whether we're talking gaming or film, there's areas that could be good to analyze and even improve.

a positive portrayal is just a non-negative or a neutral portrayal, i guess, and there's all sorts of ways to be positive. but like, let's take a peep at a thread just above this one, the one with the 'best games', and see what kind of females those games have, imo:



1 Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - barring a stint as a secret warrior, princess needs to be saved, fairies have the pointiest boobs i've ever seen outside of a madonna movie, but let's excuse that due to pixels. i am stretching this, because i always thought zelda was a great character with a lot of strength, but for the majority of the game, she's a 'ptntbs'V

2 Super Mario 64 - princess that needs to be saved

3 Tetris - which block is the best block? THE LONG PHALLIC ONE DUH

4 Final Fantasy VII - hero solves problems with a sword, heroine solves problems by praying. actually i thought ff7 did a lot of things right; the sex trade/trafficking segments put it and the people running it in a negative light, and honey bee inn wasn't a terrible place the way don corneo's mansion was. i liked that tifa leads, but, you know, only until cloud gets back, BECAUSE HE DID SUCH A GREAT JOB LAST TIME ... well, wait, sorry, lucrecia is a princess that needs saving, aeris is a princess that needs saving (but you can't even do that), cloud is a princess that needs saving (at least they get another girl to save cloud from his coma or whatever)

5 Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past - save the princess

6 GoldenEye 007 - i never played this tbh

7 Super Mario Bros. - princess? saving?

8 Half-Life 2 - alyx vance is placed there to get you to continue because she continuously is attracted to gordon/the player. she's a love interest, and i think her other purposes (plot progression, help, etc) are overshadowed by this. it's been a while since i've played it though. does she make any particularly important decisions in the game? the other woman in the game is a semi-bad guy, isn't she?

9 DOOM - OF COURSE the space marine is a giant burly man. i'm not going to argue that leaving out women entirely out of a game is an indication of anything, especially one of the first games to really make an impact on the art form. i mean, pong didn't have gender at all, and look how well it did.

10 Super Mario World - bro love


this is pretty fun let's keep going


11 Super Mario Bros. 3 - threee bros! actually, one of the mario games, and certainly the recent ones, allow you to play as the princesses, don't they? was it world? anyway,

12 Resident Evil 4 - women are either girls in need of escort/rescue or have their own agenda and will use you. or they're not fit for combat roles and do mission support remotely.

13 Super Metroid - a woman's role is as a mother. im just kidding i don't think that's what the game meant to convey.

14 Chrono Trigger - i really want to say there's a princess that needs saving in here someplace. or like, multiple princesses. doesn't matter though, because we have a girl that is good at math/technology, which i think is great!

15 Metal Gear Solid - "She had such a cute way of walking. She kind of wiggles her behind." "Way of walking, huh?" I liked sniper wolf way more than meryl as a character.

16 Street Fighter II - are there girls in this that don't have 90% of their legs showing? i'm all for wearing what you want but i think the intent is pretty clear with that. DISTRACT YOUR OPPONENT THEN BEAT HIM SENSELESS. it's interesting to note, however, that chun-li is a high ranking interpol officer, while ryu is like, what, a vagabond?

17 Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare - no idea never played it.

18 Final Fantasy III (IV) - i'm having a hard time trying to find something here in terms of how it portrays women, other than celes is usually depressed, but i mean, look at friggin shadow. i actually think this game could be gender reversed and there wouldn't be any issues.

19 Grand Theft Auto IV - shruggin. ALTHO, when will they make a gta with a female lead? i can do it in saints row, why not yet here?

20 Legend of Zelda - the master sword is a phallic symbol and the tri force is a vagina. well guess who's got both in the end

i would say the ratio of games that have positive role models in this list is not super great. but keep on reading before you attack me. i actually didn't expect the ratio to be this good, so i am aware i have preconceptions of gaming and gaming culture too.

reading through this myself, i end up thinking that maybe to be a really good character that most people will agree on, the character has to be a lead character (lara, faith). most of the characters mentioned in this thread to support a 'positive portrayal' are leads. otherwise you just do not get enough exposure to a character and you end up making assumptions, or just straight up forgetting them later on when discussions like these come up. also, it'd be interesting to see how the list changes with years... most of the characters we mentioned are from _fairly recent games_, so perhaps it's a bit unfair to even try to analyze a list like this that spans a few decades. story writing has improved in gaming, i like to think.

one of the reasons a lot of the games that are well rated remain in memory is because you can identify with the lead in some way. and it's easy to put a young male into the picture because the majority of the market is just that. so it's a business decision to have a strong male lead, and now that the market's shifted, it might be a business decision to introduce other options. so while the audience is changing, character portrayals will also change.

i think the issue is that when people talk about video games, they talk about master chief and classic mario games, where the females are digital objects or goals to rescue. yes, there's great representations of women in gaming. but they're not the popularized characterizations you talk about when talking about gaming at large. why are the other games more popular? i can argue that gameplay is the reason; mario is just more fun to play than mirror's edge. halo is more fun than block puzzles in tomb raider.

i think we should actually make another thread titled 'Positive Portrayals of Men in Video Games', and see where the conversation takes us in that one, if anyone actually thinks it's necessary. i don't very often stop to think 'hey, this is weird' when beating up on stereotypical male grunts. on the other hand, when im fighting female soldiers or whatever i always feel a little weirded out by it. is it because i was raised in an environment where fighting boys was a-ok but hitting a girl never was? obviously i'm programmed somehow too.

MILF, is there an analysis piece we can read about Bayonetta?

tldr: i should not post at 4 am in the morning.

[Forsaken Lover]

I personally think Dead or Alive: Xtreme Beach Volleyball was the greatest portrayal of females in gaming history.

[krissy]

so i'm curious: how did the same discussion go at SA?

[Loony BoB]

BoB, you are disillusioned. But I don't want to get into it with you. I also assume you have never played Super Mario Bros.
Super Mario Brothers is hardly the only game in the universe, but I haven't played much of it, no. Certainly not enough to get any kind of Princess Peach scenes that I can remember. I don't really get how this makes me disillusioned, though - of the games I have played (and that's a lot), females are portrayed in all kinds of ways just like the guys are. Many girls are leaders, many girls need help.

However, I wouldn't really go running around saying "this is a terrible portrayal of a male in a video game" when a guy needs to be saved, nor would I complain if a male is the central villain. I honestly don't really see how gender figures into things so much. So the "bad guy" is actually a "bad girl". Well, they had to be one gender of the other, didn't they?

I'd be interested how people would react if they recreated various games with every character's gender switched. I get the feeling people would still find something to complain about.

Oh, but back to that Mario Brothers thing - I suppose it might make sense that games made in the 80's might be much more gender role'd than modern games. I suppose all the games I think about were made in the 90's or later.

[Ultima Shadow]

I also assume you have never played Super Mario Bros.
I used to think that Peach was just a damsel in distress. But then I played Super Smash Bros Melee, and I soon realised that there was just no way this almighty beast of a character could actually be in need of saving from a mere average character such as Mario. Clearly, Peach is in fact a plotting mastermind who manipulates everyone in the mushroom kingdom, threatening with down-smashes and blackmailing with messages written on turnips. If someone really gets on her nerves, she might even pull forth a beamsword or bomb. Most likely, she and Mario are married and she wants a divorce. But she doesn't want to split their possessions, nor does she want to get her own hands dirty (or any dirtier than they already are). So she forces Bowser to stage a kidnapping over and over again, hoping that Mario will eventually fail to "save her" and just die trying. And once Mario's finally dead, she will walk up to his grave and say: "OH, DID I WIN?"



...ahem, as for strong females, I agree with BoB on the point that many seem to think that less than average clothing equals sexist and stereotypical weak female. While, in many cases, the less clothing might be for fanservice purpose, such a detail alone does not mean the character can't be a strong and positive female. To me, "attitude" and "character traits" are far more important. Females who are very stereotypically "girly" and "rely too much on the male characters" annoy me so much more than actually cool, badass females that only happens to have a bit less clothing than normal.

[Dr. rydrum2112]

A lot of the women in star ocean are pretty good (not all obviously).

Lunar Eternal Blue did a good job with a few of them.

White Knight did OK.

[Forsaken Lover]

so i'm curious: how did the same discussion go at SA?

It descended into arguments about what exactly qualifies as positive. For example, does the woman need to look a bit less feminine, as with my Olga example, or could they be the picture of typical female beauty. A lot of JRPG heroiens were thrown out because they tend to dress like bimbos. Poor Ashe never had a chance.
Also a side discussion about how men are also generally stereotyped in gaming.

It was over a year ago though so I don't remember any exact details.

[krissy]

so sort of the same as here, that's interesting.

i really like ashe! she grows as a person through the game and really tries to understand her position in the world. penello on the other hand, jeez louize, why was she even there...

[Mirage]

A lot of the women in star ocean are pretty good (not all obviously).

Lunar Eternal Blue did a good job with a few of them.

White Knight did OK.

Speaking of star ocean in general, several of the games have as many, or more females in them than they have males. SO4 has 3 males and 5 females. Of course, some of them don't exactly dress conservatively, but at least they're not all in the same kind of role.

In SO3, you can also get 5 females and 3 males on your party if you make the right selections for the optional characters, but you can also get 5 males and 3 females if you choose differently. Their combat roles are varied too, from heavy melee damage, ranged damage+support, and long range magic+support.

Just thought I'd bring that up, seeing as it is very typical of games to have fewer (or at best an equal number) playable female than males.

Picture related: It's Mirage Koas. She uses hand to hand weapons and is pretty adept at electronics and machinery.
39996

[krissy]

did you nickname yourself after her

[Mirage]

Maybe I did. ;o

[NeoCracker]

Theory time!

Mirage isn't named Mirage after anything, he actually IS a Mirage, or at least he is in principle. Mirage is a bizarre internet phenomenon that when certain things happen on the internet, such as the right sequence of posts, the internet puts something into the coding or what not and creates a post.

This is much like an actual Mirage, a trick of light that makes you think something is there. Only in this case, it makes us think someone is there. The weird thing about this is, however, is the fact that his posts almost always seem to have something to do with whats going on. This makes it much harder to distinguish it from reality then a real Mirage.


Also the negative portrayal of woman in games, while exists, is highly exaggerated.

[Mirage]

I am a technology spirit.

[NeoCracker]

More like a glitch in the system really.

[Citizen Bleys]

ITT people who have never played a Suikoden game.

I: Tir is a second rate substitute for Odessa
II: Sierra Erwache
III: Chris makes a badass Flame Champion, the other candidates aren't encased head to toe in armour, and the male Tenkai is basically an NPC, not to mention the weakest Tenkai ever
IV: Elenor is the real hero, Flare holds up well under extreme pressure (Lino is a joke, Flare is Obel's true strength) and Maxine is the winningest damage dealer
V: The protagonist isn't even eligible for the throne because he's male, Sialeeds is a Magnificent Bastard, and Zerase owns so hard that using her is functionally equivalent to cheating

[Skyblade]

I would like to add to the list:

39999

Maya, from Septerra Core

Maya is a the main character of the game, and is an incredibly realistic and rounded character. She's developed enough that summing up her personality in a few lines is extremely difficult. She runs the gamut from independent, caring, angry, and everything in between.

She's one of the first female main characters who I actually remember as a character in a game, and a great one at that.


In fact, Septerra Core: Legacy of the Creator is itself a great game. The combat is incredibly solid, the world and characters are extremely interesting, and the gameplay and voice acting is generally well done. Not to mention it has a wonderfully incredible steampunk feel. And if you haven't played it yet, it's availible at Good Old Games for only about ten bucks.

[Loony BoB]

ITT people who have never played a Suikoden game.
I've played Suikoden (1) but found it kind of forgettable for the most part, and never finished it. I still need to get around to doing that someday... someday. I have the PAL versions of I & II which are both worth a tidy sum these days. I consider the games an investment. A used PAL Suikoden II can fetch up to £130 last I checked, while the first game (used, again) doesn't even register on eBay's Completed Listings anymore and is going for about £85 on Amazon.

[krissy]

"anita sarkeesian took ur moneys dude lol"

Damsel in Distress: Part 1 - Tropes vs Women in Video Games - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6p5AZp7r_Q&feature=youtu.be)

i don't even mean to revive the thread so much as to share this long awaited video (had no idea it'd be a video series but all right)

[Freya]

Seriously.

No mention for Lara Croft yet?
Tali from Mass Effect
Liara from Mass Effect
Heck, even Miranda Lawson!

39915

I always found Lara Croft a very negative female character. It always seemed to me that yeah she did all this platforming but the fact the the biggest focus was on how big her boobs were, that to me was very negative and I avoided that series like a plague. Until this recent one I never had an interest in the series because of her portrayal.

[Night Fury]

Seriously.

No mention for Lara Croft yet?
Tali from Mass Effect
Liara from Mass Effect
Heck, even Miranda Lawson!

39915

I always found Lara Croft a very negative female character. It always seemed to me that yeah she did all this platforming but the fact the the biggest focus was on how big her boobs were, that to me was very negative and I avoided that series like a plague. Until this recent one I never had an interest in the series because of her portrayal.

See, when I was younger I had no idea about sexualisation and the like, but I still wanted to be Lara Croft! Team that with all the Buffy I watched and I just wanted to grow up into a total ass kicker! :D

Now I look back and think of how really, really, terribly she was sexualised. All of her little sex noises she would make when climbing things and stuff ahaha, but she was still a strong, kick ass women - even if she was dressed in next to nothing.

[Loony BoB]

Re: noises being 'sexual' - how many noises do people make when climbing cliff faces and getting shot and punched and forced to run into walls couldn't be misconstrued as 'sexual'?

[krissy]

most of them.

[Loony BoB]

I dunno, it seems no matter how someone moans/grunts in a game they could be construed as sounding either sound constipated or sexual. :p Perhaps that's the fault of voice actors, but more than likely it's just the result of filthy minded people. It's the same with Tennis. When people do something that requires a lot of energy and they shout out because of it, the rest of the world goes "hurr hurr hurr, sex noises" because we're all so very witty and high brow.

[Cloudane]

No love for Yuna?

In FFX, of course. Not so much X-2 where she got dumbed-down.


DOOM - OF COURSE the space marine is a giant burly man.

Well, Arlene Sanders was a pretty good character in the novelisation at least :)

[Madame Adequate]

ITT people who have never played a Suikoden game.
I've played Suikoden (1) but found it kind of forgettable for the most part, and never finished it.

This is worse than your soup debacle. This is more wrong than Holocaust denial. This is worse than the Holocaust itself. Please go.

[The Man]

>playing Suikoden
>not playing Suikoden II
>judging entire series based on the first game

How the smurf did I even miss this. BoB what the smurf. You are so objectively wrong I can't even.

[DMKA]

No love for Yuna?

I like Yuna, but a lot of people would say she fits the J-RPG female "Oh, I wield greater power than anyone else in the game but I need constant rescue anyway because I'm a pretty girl!" archetype.

See also: Aeris, Rinoa and Garnet.

[Dr. rydrum2112]

I still object to the looking at things in aggregate like this- simpson's paradox.

[Forsaken Lover]

The best female in SO3(hell, she was probably the best character period) was Nel.

[Loony BoB]

>playing Suikoden
>not playing Suikoden II
>judging entire series based on the first game

How the smurf did I even miss this. BoB what the smurf. You are so objectively wrong I can't even.
I'm not judging the entire series based on the first game, I'm simply wanting to finish the first game before I start the second.

[krissy]

Damsel in Distress: Part 2 - Tropes vs Women in Video Games - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toa_vH6xGqs)
damsels in distress part 2 came out
it's pretty good

[Flaming Ice]

No love for Yuna?

I like Yuna, but a lot of people would say she fits the J-RPG female "Oh, I wield greater power than anyone else in the game but I need constant rescue anyway because I'm a pretty girl!" archetype.

See also: Aeris, Rinoa and Garnet.


Happens in quite a few square games, really annoying, it's always that one character you want to use.


http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTtKEPlKYKUggQ_ZbkHyNT6MAIHuuEetlGZOmKZc00QcqBxRDSp




Saved bowser from being a virgin all his life...she's the hero of the game, not mario (who beats up turtles actively seeking love).