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Aulayna
02-04-2013, 09:46 PM
Sure she might have a short skirt, but still manages to look regal. She doesn't depend on anyone to get trout done, is part of an unground resistance operation, took part in faking her own death - and did all of this whilst greiving for her KIA newly-wed husband. That's seriously one can of awesome.

(plus we also share similar names, maybe I should deed pool to be Ashelia too!)

DMKA
02-05-2013, 01:04 AM
She cries over her dead husband constantly instead of moving on. The way God intended.

TrollHunter
02-05-2013, 01:10 AM
Ummm... I hope youre kidding
She mourns, but shes also not very blatant about it, and shes still a strong leader even with those emotional issues.

Hell, if she was a guy and her wife was killed you can be damn sure hed be mourning for most of the mission

And also, she does eventually move on too

maybee
02-05-2013, 09:43 AM
Best female character in the Final Fantasy series ? Not even close. She's way too emotional.




Hell, if she was a guy and her wife was killed you can be damn sure hed be mourning for most of the mission


No because the Final Fantasy fandom would be picking on him and calling him a gay looser. * Edward FF IV COUGH *

Aulayna
02-05-2013, 10:04 AM
I'm sorry would you not be slightly emotional if your newly-wed husband got killed in a war along with all your brothers and your farther was assassinated by seemingly your own people whilst brokering a peace deal? All of this before you even turned 18.





Hell, if she was a guy and her wife was killed you can be damn sure hed be mourning for most of the mission


No because the Final Fantasy fandom would be picking on him and calling him a gay looser. * Edward FF IV COUGH *

Just like they did with Cid Highwind in FFVII rig... oh wait.

Huckleberry Quin
02-05-2013, 01:43 PM
I'm with maybee. I prefer my characters to be complete without realistic and believeable personalities and character development.

Loony BoB
02-05-2013, 01:53 PM
I'm assuming that's sarcasm, Quin? xD

Just like they did with Cid Highwind in FFVII rig... oh wait.
I'm guessing you mean Vincent Valentine? I didn't ever see Cid Highwind mourning a wife. :S

Despite this, I definitely agree with you regarding Ashe. While I still prefer Tifa, I do think she was a very deserving winner of Best Female in the FF Ciddies.

maybee
02-05-2013, 02:40 PM
I'm sorry would you not be slightly emotional if your newly-wed husband got killed in a war along with all your brothers and your farther was assassinated by seemingly your own people whilst brokering a peace deal? All of this before you even turned 18.

Just like they did with Cid Highwind in FFVII rig... oh wait.

You're forgetting that there's female characters out there who have gone through so much worse and deal with their pain and trauma so much better than Ashe. Tifa, Aerith, Terra, Celes, Beatrix, Selphie, Dagger, Yuna...

I think you mean Vincent Valentine.

Which yes gets called a emo, fag, gothic looser, vampire, "listens to Linkin Park " and more.


I'm with maybee. I prefer my characters to be complete without realistic and believeable personalities and character development.

40013

Loony BoB
02-05-2013, 02:53 PM
Again, I don't really get how you see Ashe as some kind of overly emotional being. She's actually very good at keeping her emotions under control.

maybee
02-05-2013, 02:55 PM
Again, I don't really get how you see Ashe as some kind of overly emotional being. She's actually very good at keeping her emotions under control.

You do realize that she totally went up and slapped Basch in the face right ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2L24Rd_z64

yes.

good.

at.

keeping.

her.

emotions.

under- control.

CimminyCricket
02-05-2013, 03:01 PM
She seemed to be to be a very emotionally strong woman. She knew exactly what she wanted, how to get it and didn't beg anyone to help her. She never once used her feminine charms on any of the characters, which was super nice.

NeoCracker
02-05-2013, 03:19 PM
I'm assuming that's sarcasm, Quin? xD

I like to go into everything under the assumption everything Quin says is legit. Makes threads so much funner.

Loony BoB
02-05-2013, 03:26 PM
[QUOTE=maybee;3213180]So? I'm very good at keeping my emotions under control, too. But that doesn't mean that if someone that I had every reason to believe killed my father walked up to my face that I wouldn't try to do them some damage.

If her emotions were out of control, she would try to kill him, not slap him.

Forsaken Lover
02-05-2013, 04:08 PM
I'm sorry would you not be slightly emotional if your newly-wed husband got killed in a war along with all your brothers and your farther was assassinated by seemingly your own people whilst brokering a peace deal? All of this before you even turned 18.

Just like they did with Cid Highwind in FFVII rig... oh wait.

You're forgetting that there's female characters out there who have gone through so much worse and deal with their pain and trauma so much better than Ashe. Tifa, Aerith, Terra, Celes, Beatrix, Selphie, Dagger, Yuna...


Yes it was so terrible what Beatrix had to go through. Slaughtering those edefensless rat people was very, very traumatizing for her.

And nobody in FFVIII is an example good anything except Seifer. Selphie is as badly written as everyone else.

Also Tifa helped Barret and them start blowing Shinra stuff up as a way of revenge so she is in no way better than Ashe who also wanted to blow up her enemies.

TrollHunter
02-05-2013, 04:15 PM
Again, I don't really get how you see Ashe as some kind of overly emotional being. She's actually very good at keeping her emotions under control.

You do realize that she totally went up and slapped Basch in the face right ?

FFXII - Basch Gets Punched In the Face - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2L24Rd_z64)

yes.

good.

at.

keeping.

her.

emotions.

under- control.

Actually, that just showa how in control she is. Thats a very mild reaction compared to what a lot of people would have done
Case in point: vaan trying to kill basch

Red Mage Coffman
02-05-2013, 06:37 PM
I'm gonna go ny what I've always agreed with. Lightning is the best.

Well, in my opinion anyways. Ashe is in my top 5, don't you worry.

Bolivar
02-06-2013, 06:34 AM
Hell hath no fury like Ashelia B'nargin Dalmasca. Male or female, she's one of my favorite FF characters for her development from being consumed by vengeance to willing to make the hard choices and not succumb to the ends-justifying means mentality of Ivalice. When you see that flashback of her with Rasler and she's so naive and innocent it hit me hard just how dramatically her life had changed and her very human reaction to it all.

Plus she's voiced by Kari Wahlgren, who's done excellent work in all my favorite video games, from Vaklyria Chronicles to Guild Wars 2.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070522233157/finalfantasy/images/a/ae/Young_Ashe_%28artwork%29.jpg

Jinx
02-06-2013, 06:38 AM
I always thought she was very unlikable. She's really sassy and strong willed, but not in a good way. She's just kind of a bitch.


Yes, the irony of me posting that isn't lost on me.

maybee
02-06-2013, 06:40 AM
Yes it was so terrible what Beatrix had to go through. Slaughtering those edefensless rat people was very, very traumatizing for her.

And nobody in FFVIII is an example good anything except Seifer. Selphie is as badly written as everyone else.

Also Tifa helped Barret and them start blowing Shinra stuff up as a way of revenge so she is in no way better than Ashe who also wanted to blow up her enemies.

You're forgetting that Beatrix changed her ways and she realized what she was doing was wrong. She joined Zidane's side and stopped working for Queen Brahne's greed and Kuja's plots.

Selphie was not badly written. She was a cheerful and outgoing character but after the attack on what was her home to her and loosing some of her friends she showed a side to her character that was really brave and mature. She was sad about loosing her friends and people that she knew in Trabia; but she still managed to stand up and still be strong and smile.

Again Tifa realized that doing things for revenge was a bad idea and in Advent Children she tries to be a strong and confident adult and help Cloud break through his depression and be a Mother type to Denzel and Marlene.

Controlling your emotions means what it is controlling your emotions. Ashe going up and slapping somebody is not controlling her emotions, because her sadness and anger leaked out. That is not controlling your emotions.

Forsaken Lover
02-06-2013, 07:09 AM
Except slapping the person you think is responsible for your father's death is a bit less emotionally charged than blowing up reactors.

Tifa is way more over-emotional than Ashe was and Ashe was dealing with a lot more than her or Selphie.

maybee
02-06-2013, 09:55 AM
Except slapping the person you think is responsible for your father's death is a bit less emotionally charged than blowing up reactors.

That's not the point here. The point here that was Ashe was completely calm and she was unable to completely control her emotions. But she doesn't.

Again Tifa saw what she was doing was wrong and she changed her ways.



Tifa is way more over-emotional than Ashe was and Ashe was dealing with a lot more than her or Selphie.

Tifa lost all of her villagers her friends her family her Father and she mostly would of seen people slaughtered and massacred right in front of her eyes. Selphie is a child solider and again she looses quite alot of people that she knew thanks to Edea and Seifer destroying her "home " we see in Trabia by the grave site her emotionally upset but trying to remain tough speaking to the friends that she lost during the missile attack. Not to mention she feels responsible for their deaths because she couldn't stop the missile's in time. That's alot of trout for a seventeen year girl to go through.



Tifa becomes a Mother to Denzel and Marlene and realizes that her revenge scheming was wrong.
Selphie despite loosing her friends by a missile attack on her home, she reminds cheerful and brave.
Even Princess Garnet goes through alot of trout and I don't remember her ever whacking Kuja in the face.

Ashe she spends like 99% of the game grieving over her husband.

Even Cloud manages to move on from Aerith and Zack. Terra moves on from Leo and Locke moves from Rachel. Even Spoony Bard moves on from Anna quicker and faster than Ashe does.

Aulayna
02-06-2013, 10:42 AM
It's amusing that your entire argument as to why Ashe is unable to control her emotions is based on one scene in the entire game.

Let's put some perspective on this:

Ashe - 17 years old:


several brothers killed in war
husband from an arranged marriage killed in war
father assassinated by seemingly her own people
faked her own death and became the leader of an underground resistance movement


Ashe - 19 years old:

suffers from betrayal from her own people at least twice
had the fate of an entire nation of people resting on her shoulders (with a population far bigger than both Tifa or Selphie's losses combined)
deals with all of this in her stride and then in one scene, ONE SCENE - slaps the person she thought killed her father rather than running him through with her sword right there on the spot - apparently this makes her overly emotional.
averts an unnecessary bloodbath at the very end as her guiding motive throughout was for her people rather than getting revenge


Selphie - 17 years old:

Fails at stopping her home being destroyed. Gets emotional over it. Remains emotional.


Tifa:

See's her hometown massacred by one man as a child - vows vengeance
Engages in terrorist activities against an organisation as part of said vengeance killing innocents in the process and leaving thousands of others without electricity and probably other basic resources
Eventually, through a male character, realizes that blind vengeance isn't the best motive


Ashe dealt with far more than the other two combined and remained emotionally stable for far longer than they did. From a very young age Ashe has had to deal with death, betrayal, conspiracy and then at age 17 (when the other two were busy falling off of cliffs or serving alcohol) got thrust to the role of leader of her under siege nation.


Ashe she spends like 99% of the game grieving over her husband.

You must've played a very different Final Fantasy XII.

Loony BoB
02-06-2013, 12:51 PM
I honestly don't even remember her grieving. I remember her seeing his ghost. More often than not, though, all I remember is her trying to figure out what the hell she's supposed to do about the political situation.

Huckleberry Quin
02-06-2013, 02:20 PM
You're forgetting that Ashe changed her ways and she realized what she was trying to accomplish was wrong. She joined Vaan's side and stopped allowing her need for vengeance control her.

Ashe was not badly written. She was a cheerful and outgoing character but after the attack on what was her entire kingdom and its people and losing all of her friends, as well as finding out her newly-wed husband with whom she was blissfully in love had been betrayed and murdered by the man tasked to protect him, she showed a side to her character that was really brave and mature. She was sad about losing her friends and people that she knew in Dalmasca; but she still managed to stand up and still be strong and awesome.

Again Ashe realized that doing things for revenge was a bad idea and in the end she tries to be a strong and confident adult and help her people break through their oppression and be a Mother type to all of Dalmasca.

Controlling your emotions demonstrably means something completely different to me than what it actually means. Meeting the man who betrayed your kingdom, murdered your husband and ultimately forced you into exile for the first time and managing to only slap him is a prime example of controlling your emotions.


Again, Ashe saw what she was doing was wrong and she changed her ways.

Ashe lost all of her people, her friends, her family, her husband and her kingdom and she mostly would have seen people slaughtered and massacred right in front of her eyes. Ashe was a child queen and again she loses quite a lot of people that she knew thanks to Basch and Arcadia destroying her home. We see throughout the game that she is emotionally upset but trying to remain tough. Not to mention she feels responsible for their deaths because she couldn't stop the empire. That's a lot of trout for a seventeen year girl to go through.

Ashe becomes a Mother to Dalmasca and her people and realizes that her revenge scheming was wrong.
Ashe, despite losing her friends by a sudden betrayal and the overwhelming conquest of a much larger nation, she remains focused and brave.
Even Ashe goes through a lot of trout and I don't remember her ever acting in an unrealistic and pathetic way.

Ashe she spends like 99% of the game being a total badass, trying to free and reclaim her kingdom whilst also fighting an intense moral battle.

Even Ashe manages to move on from what's-his-name's death and Arcadia's invasion.

maybee
02-06-2013, 02:42 PM
Selphie - 17 years old:

Fails at stopping her home being destroyed. Gets emotional over it. Remains emotional.

You're just making up trout now....


Tifa:

See's her hometown massacred by one man as a child - vows vengeance
Engages in terrorist activities against an organisation as part of said vengeance killing innocents in the process and leaving thousands of others without electricity and probably other basic resources
Eventually, through a male character, realizes that blind vengeance isn't the best motive


Tifa was a teen when she the events of Nibelhiem occurred. She didn't murder all innocents, she wanted to attack Shrina who are the opposite of innocent. She thought that she was helping the innocents.

Lol no. It was though discussion with the group that they all realized that they weren't the perfect bunch of freedom fighters that they assumed that they were.




Ashe dealt with far more than the other two combined and remained emotionally stable for far longer than they did. From a very young age Ashe has had to deal with death, betrayal, conspiracy and then at age 17 (when the other two were busy falling off of cliffs or serving alcohol) got thrust to the role of leader of her under siege nation.
Again lol no. Selphie and Tifa both dealt with death from young ages. Tifa lost her Mother and Selphie lost both of her parents and grew up in a orphanage with other kids who had lost their parents as well. At least Ashe had a proper home before trout started going sour; somebody like Selphie didn't.




You must've played a very different Final Fantasy XII.

You must of played a rare version of Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy VIII. Both of them called " None of the female characters go through any pain or sorrow in this version, they just either sit on Seventh Heaven and serve Beer or jump off cliffs " No Trabia scenes or Orphanage scenes included. Selphie just spends the whole game just jumping off cliffs... over and over again. Rated M +

Loony BoB
02-06-2013, 02:51 PM
Perhaps maybee and the rest of us should just agree to disagree. ;) Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

maybee
02-06-2013, 03:02 PM
Perhaps maybee and the rest of us should just agree to disagree. ;) Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Thankyou !

I don't hate or dislike Ashe. I don't think or believe that she's the best female character within the series. That's all.

Ashe was one of the brighter points of FF XII and really should of been the main character.

Aulayna
02-06-2013, 03:23 PM
You must of played a rare version of Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy VIII. Both of them called " None of the female characters go through any pain or sorrow in this version, they just either sit on Seventh Heaven and serve Beer or jump off cliffs " No Trabia scenes or Orphanage scenes included. Selphie just spends the whole game just jumping off cliffs... over and over again. Rated M +

And apparently you only played an FFXII where the only thing Ashe did was slap someone.

Pot. Kettle. Black.


I don't hate or dislike Ashe. I don't think or believe that she's the best female character within the series. That's all.

Fair enough.

Forsaken Lover
02-06-2013, 05:53 PM
Gonna point out lil' Selphie in the Orphanage was perfectly happy. The loss of her parents never seemed to effect her whatsoever and it's entirely possible she never knew them at all.

Overcoming that loss is thus not comparable to Ashe's own father being brutally killed at what was supposed to be a meeting for peace.

Raistlin
02-07-2013, 03:59 AM
My mind is really boggled at the Ashe hate. Overly emotional? Really? Ashe is one of, if not the, strongest female main characters of the entire FF series. She was determined and ruthless and assertive, and what emotions she did show only emphasized that she was also human.

I'm not sure about "best female character ever," but she's certainly a worthy favorite for the series.

Citizen Bleys
02-07-2013, 04:03 AM
I don't see how it's so unusual for Ashe to stay in control. It was an arranged marriage. She didn't know the guy.

Terra, however, went through the ringer, acknowledged her emotions, and kept on fighting like hell anyways. Terra is worth ten thousand Ashes.

maybee
02-07-2013, 05:41 AM
Terra, however, went through the ringer, acknowledged her emotions, and kept on fighting like hell anyways. Terra is worth ten thousand Ashes.

This.

This is why IMO Ashe is not the best female in the series because there is women characters like Terra hanging around.

About the marriage she did love Prince Rasler. Who wouldn't ? He was like a attractive version of General Leo. But Ashe loved him before and after his death; very much so.




And apparently you only played an FFXII where the only thing Ashe did was slap someone.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Fair enough.

I only used that scene as a example that Ashe doesn't completely control her emotions. So not really.

You sure ? You're not going to bite on me for not thinking that Ashe is the best thing ever ?

.... Oh wait....

Forsaken Lover
02-07-2013, 06:22 AM
Terra, however, went through the ringer, acknowledged her emotions, and kept on fighting like hell anyways.

...all of this applies to Ashe as well....

Seriously, Ashe isn't the best written female in history or anything but the arguments against her in this thread are flimsy to say the least.

TrollHunter
02-07-2013, 06:38 AM
You spin me right round baby right round...
Let's try to keep this argument from just going in circles if possible.
I fear that this could happen very soon, and it never ends well.

Ashe is a great character, Terra is a great character. Noone here is trying to argue otherwise. There's no sense in arguing which is better because it's so largely subjective.

maybee
02-07-2013, 10:39 AM
You spin me right round baby right round...
Let's try to keep this argument from just going in circles if possible.
I fear that this could happen very soon, and it never ends well.

Ashe is a great character, Terra is a great character. Noone here is trying to argue otherwise. There's no sense in arguing which is better because it's so largely subjective.

I saw it as like a debate at first. Whether Ashe really is the best female character in the series, but yeah it has headed into a argument.

It's all a matter of opinion anyways.

Loony BoB
02-07-2013, 11:26 AM
Terra, however, went through the ringer, acknowledged her emotions, and kept on fighting like hell anyways.
Actually, Terra was pretty keen on not fighting and just leaving it to the other guys. If Humbaba never attacked the second time, she'd probably never have rejoined the fight and the rest of the heroes would have still been victorious at the end (although they probably would have died with Kefka without Terra to save them).

As for this thread starting as a debate and ending up an argument: It actually started as a thread to discuss why Ashe is the best female character ever. Technically, every single time someone has posted something negative about this idea, they have been off topic. It's not to discuss why she is not, it's to discuss why she is. We've had similar threads for Sabin and Sephiroth and the naysayers were instructed to start a new thread if they wanted to debate it, as those threads were for appreciation rather than for a debate, and I think this thread falls in line with that.

In short, let's start focusing on the positives.

Huckleberry Quin
02-07-2013, 02:40 PM
Killer thighs.

Elpizo
02-10-2013, 02:22 PM
She doesn't put up with Vaan when he acts stupid! :monster:

Mirage
02-10-2013, 03:04 PM
So you're overemotional when you slap someone that you're pretty sure killed your king and father?

Yeah, I guess I am pretty over emotional too then.

Formalhaut
02-10-2013, 06:13 PM
You can't destroy an entire argument because of one slapping of thine face. Given the context, if that went to court on a assault charge you'd be hard pressed to convict her.

I really like Ashe. She had to put up with alot, really alot. And she came out great. Sure, she had those visions of Rastler but they were because of the occuria I think.

Besides, she won best heroine. Enough said.

TrollHunter
02-10-2013, 07:51 PM
Her magic stat makes her perfect as my katana user :D