Suikoden 2: Does it live up to the hype!

[NeoCracker]

Well, lets find out! I'll be playing through this game, finally, so lets try to talk about it without spoiling it! Something I've managed to avoid all this time, and I'll update my thoughts on it!

So far I opted to stay awake and walk around the camp with Jowy.

I'm liking how you see the division amongst the troups on this apparent peace treaty, how some are happy and others want to keep fighting.

So at the very least, the beginning is intriguing!

Edit: And apperently you are suppose to Sharpen Tonfa's. Who would have thought!

[Jowy]

yay! everyone should play this. it starts a little slow so please keep an open mind. once you get to Muse, it picks up a LOT. and yeah, I do agree...you don't sharpen a tonfa, or nunchaku, or staves but whatever! make sure to check rare finds in every single shop and don't be afraid to blow all your money on a rare piece of armour if you get the chance; you'll make it all back later.

sagelike advice: for your first playthrough, don't use the gate exploit. it is cool watching Jowy blow everything up in one hit, but it'll mess up the flow of the story. also, at the very least, be sure to rotate your character use. you're gonna want at least eighteen characters you feel confident about bringing into battle.

Oh, and did you import a save file from the first game?

[Shauna]

also, at the very least, be sure to rotate your character use. you're gonna want at least eighteen characters you feel confident about bringing into battle.

So much this. First time I tried to play I got to a point when I needed two (or three, maybe?) separate parties and I only had maybe 8 decent characters. Ass = whooped. The first game lets you away with not having more than a handful of characters being decent but this one is way less forgiving (I found, at least).

[NeoCracker]

...I have no Idea what the smurf this exploit is. o_O

And I intended to rotate characters. My current line up, forgive me for not remembering all these names off the top of my head, starting from the left of the front row...

Dude you feed to get to join you, Wolf, Jowy, Cecil (The name it picked randomly), Hunter, Sister. I have Boomerang chick and Kobold guy back at the hideout.

So far, I got back from the Highlands and was told to go around recruiting people, and did so. I think it's pretty obvious where I've been to recruit so far from that list, but currently I am in greenhill. I went to Muse to pick up the amulet, but kept following the road until I got here. And the Runemaster lady is hot.

And I haven't played Suikoden 1 before, so no to the save file. :p

Edit: And while there are definately things that make me scratch my head, the only real issue I seem to have is lack of overworld map, mostly because so much of this fucking terrain looks the same as ever where else. Unless i just haven't found a way to pull up the world map anyway. :p

[Jowy]

you'll get a map soon enough when you actually need it. did you get the squirrel from behind the tree when you went to get Nanami? If not, you can get him near the Muse/Greenhill border; just have an open slot in your group.

You can push the door from the Muse/Matilda border off the hinges and go somewhere you aren't supposed to early on. You'll grab two dudes there that'll help kill the monsters and you'll gain about thirty levels in ten minutes along with getting 3/4 of the Bright Shield and 4/4 of the Black Sword spells. But don't do it!

[theundeadhero]

Does it live up to the hype? Yep.

[Madame Adequate]

Yes. Yes it does.

[Laddy]

I need to get this game.

[Jowy]

So! Who's your ideal party setup those of us that have played through already? Naming names shouldn't be much of a spoiler:

Flik/Georg/Sierra
Riou/Mazus/Luc

[Wolf Kanno]

Flik, Victor, Georg, Luc, Riou (Hero), and McDohl. Yes, I am cruel.

Also, Boo to NeoCracker for not playing the first game, you're going to miss out on some of the subtle aspects of the plot and callbacks.

[Raistlin]

I played S2 first (when I found it randomly at a game store many, many years ago), and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Playing S1 first does allow you to fully appreciate some of the characters and events, but it's still a great game on its own.

I think my last party was Flik/Georg/___/Riou/McDohl/Luc. I don't remember if the third front slot was Humphrey, Viktor, or Pesmerga... or maybe I had McDohl in the front and Mazus in the back.

[NeoCracker]

...Okay, so I just got to the shrine where Jowy and the main have that flashback stuff happening, and you get all o fthe lines like 'We chose Life and Death together' 'Because of all the things we shared' set over touching and almost romantic music.

....This game had better end with Jowy and Cecil (Main) gay adopting that little girl.

[Pumpkin]

This is a great game, I hope you enjoy it :jess:. It's my favorite in the whole series and I have played them all.

You should play them all.

[Dignified Pauper]

By far one of the coolest stories ever in a JRPG.

[Jowy]

You get Pesmerga way too late in the game. :aimsad:

[Del Murder]

Still trying to get through S1 before I start this one but it's not the most engaging game.

[Raistlin]

Also, Neo, be sure to sharpen your weapons as much as you can at each point in the game. That and runes are your priority.


You get Pesmerga way too late in the game. :aimsad:

Agreed.


Still trying to get through S1 before I start this one but it's not the most engaging game.

S1 was the first attempt at an RPG, and it has its own kinks and downsides. It still has a fantastic story, but it does help that it's a very short game (about 20 hours, even with all the characters).

[Wolf Kanno]

You get Pesmerga way too late in the game. :aimsad:

While I love Pesmerga and he's still a great character in S2, Georg Prime is still the better character if you ask me, since he has a significantly higher speed stat and doesn't suffer from Pesmerga's equipment restrictions allowing Georg to wear more of the stat raising gear. If only Pesmerga could equip the Windspun Armor, he's be a total monster in Suikoden I and II.


Still trying to get through S1 before I start this one but it's not the most engaging game.

I try to warn people its a generic game, I probably only think highly of it because I played back when it was relatively new and you could still get away with writing fairly straightforward gnarmy plots. The novelization did a better job of fleshing it out and the connections between it and S2 also helped as well.

[Jowy]

Where do you even find the Windspun Armor in Suikoden II? I don't think I've ever picked it up.

[Wolf Kanno]

Its a rare item in the Sajah Shop, so its really easy to miss. Also, you can get one for Humphrey if you have him equipped with it in your last S1 file, he'll start with the armor equipped though it will be permanently attached on him. If memory serves me correct McDohl has a similar deal with either the Master's Garb or Silver Hat, I forget which...

[Jowy]

As always, I'm impressed by your omniscience, WK.

Neo! Where are you?!

[NeoCracker]

Dealing with Family mostly. :p

I've barely had time to touch it after getting Jowy and Cecils Ruin, though I'm picking it back up tonight!

[NeoCracker]

FUCK YOU NANAMI! YOU ARE STUPID AND I DON"T WANT TO TAKE YOU TO FIGHT NECLORD! PISS OFF! :mad2:

[theundeadhero]

But thou must.

[NeoCracker]

FUCK OFF UNDEAD! FUCK OFF AND DIE IN A FIRE! :mad2:

[Raistlin]

You calling the Hero "Cecil" is confusing. The generic name for S2's hero is Riou (taken from the Japanese novelization).

And wait, I thought you just got the True Runes. Now you're going to fight Neclord? The game's addicting, isn't it? :p

[NeoCracker]

This is how I always play video games though. :p

I will say, while this is a very good game, there are definately aspects of it that I think hold it back from being as great as some of you had made it out to be. :p

Still though, it's a lot of fun. And I especially loved the fight with Luca Blight. I loved how you get set up with three full parties against him and this is AFTER the ambush. They did a good job using the fight mechanics to make Luca seem like the bad ass the story had built him up as.

Though I am slightly bothered by him being the most blatantly evil man I have ever seen in a video game, and to top it off he possesses the name 'Blight'. I don't know if his douchebaggery could have been telegraphed more without the aid of a herald declaring his dickory prior to it happening.

[Wolf Kanno]

The novelization of the game and the supplement materials do a better job fleshing him out. The game mentions his turn towards darkness (witnessing the rape of his mother) but the novels did a better job exploring it and making Luca into more of a tragic monster. I really wish Konami would actually release all the supplement material and novels for the series. We got the Suikoden 3 manga but little else, and its a crying shame.

[Jowy]

anyone ever get to l'renouille in less than twelve hours? I've never tried, personally.

[Wolf Kanno]

Well, now that I actually own a copy of the game, I may try it since I really like Clive and we kind of got screwed out of the Howiing Voice Guild's story since SuikoGaiden 1 and 2 never saw a worldwide release. Of anything, it practically justifies the Matilda Glitch being in the game.

[I Took the Red Pill]

re: Thread Title

yes

[Madame Adequate]

FUCK YOU NANAMI! YOU ARE STUPID AND I DON"T WANT TO TAKE YOU TO FIGHT NECLORD! PISS OFF! :mad2:

I'm used to NeoCracker being incomprehensibly wrong, but this is something else right here. What is it like being the most wrong person out of EVERY PERSON EVER?

Including Sarah.

[The Man]

He's still not as wrong as Towns is. At least he likes the game. Towns didn't even like Suikoden. This is a pretty damn close second, though.

[NeoCracker]

I just don't like Nanami. I disliked her from the moment she was introduced with her horribly timed Slap Stick.

Edit: Okay, Shu and Kiba just discussed the stratagy which basically seems like Kiba is going to be sacrificed. I am sad. :cry:

Edit2: Currently attacking Rockaxe Castle with....

Rikimaru/Valeria/Cecil
Nanami/Sierra/Luke

I adore Sierra. :love:

[Pumpkin]

I adore Sierra too :jess:. And I was never a huge fan of Nanami.

HOW DID BOB NOT LIKE SUIKODEN?!?!?!!?!?

[Araciel]

He's a Commie Mutant Traitor.

Maybe after I'm done with FF4 complete I'll revisit the Suikos.

[NeoCracker]

Well, on my way into the heart of the Highland. Current Party...

Valeria/Cecli/Rikimaru
Lorelai/Sierra/Luc

Lets kicks some ass.

Edit: And of course I lose the fucking Dual. I hate Duals so damn much in this game. So of course, I said fuck it and pulled up the dual guide, and it tells me the way to get the better ending...

I'd have liked ot figure that one out myself. :(

[NeoCracker]

Well apparently you can do zero fucking damage in a dual that you are suppose to win.

...Go fuck yourself game.

[Wolf Kanno]

Are you talking about that final duel or the one against Cunningham? Keep in mind that duels do in fact put in account your armor, weapon strength, and levels so if you are under-leveled it will show.

[Jowy]

The duels are the best part in EVERY SINGLE GAME what is wrong with you?

It has to be Cunningham based on the context of the two posts;why deal damage to get the best ending?

[NeoCracker]

It was cunningham, but when I looked up the dual guide I saw the bit involving Jowy after it, so I spoiled the alternate endings for myself. :p

And the Duels are the fucking worst part. It's either A) A game of Rock paper Siscors, or B) You know what the line means so you garuntee victory unless you are doing 0-damage a hit, in which case your just fucked. :p

ANd I was level 58 for the dual, but my weapon was only *Gasp* 12.

Kicked his ass when I upped it to 15. :p

[Jowy]

Just go ahead and skip over to Suikoden V after you're done if you want more of the best.

[NeoCracker]

While I sit here and get the other two endings, are all the Suikoden games in the same Chronology?

And I would have skipped IV anyway. That game had issues. :p

[Shauna]

A game of Rock paper Siscors

That is exactly what it is, and a lot of mechanics in Suikoden are essentially massive R/P/S battles. :p

[Jowy]

Suikoden III happens sometime after Suikoden II with a handful more of recurring characters. The game's the oddball in terms of combat from the others...you'll see if you play it. I had fun with it. Suikoden V happens before Suikoden II in Sol-Falena (pretty damn far from Suikoden II's world), and in terms of story and gameplay is the Silver Medal™ of the series.

And yeah, I couldn't delude myself into liking IV.

[NeoCracker]

....And apparently I can't get the third ending because I didn't recruit everyone.

Why the smurf would you need to recruit everyone?

Edit: Okay, some final thoughts.

1) Fuck Duals, I don't do RPG's to play Rock Paper Siscors. Thank god there are so few of them.

2) I liked the Massive battles, but they all ended up being so simple you could never really enjoy them, and there was virutallly no stratagy involved on your end. Ended up feeling like wasted time.

3)They did a really good job with the characters considering the fucking massive size of the cast.

4) This game had a problem getting it's villains down. Luca Blight was barely an entity in terms of character. He was pretty much a massive asshole from the get go, and the game went out of it's way to telegraph it. Jowy had a lot of good motivation and was a great character, but he just didn't come across as threatening.

5) Shu, after the stupid intro arc with him, quickly became a favorite character. Dude got shit done, and wasn't afraid to turn everyone against him for the greater good. This guy was the games highlight for me, especially when he sends Victor in with Pilka to ensure your survival. More games need guys like this capable of preparing against the obvious traps hero's are required to fall in.

6) Story, while there were a few odd moments, was really well told and put together. The only real problem is I walk away feeling like you never really get much an explination. Who were the Sindar? Why were me and Jowy destined to fight? Whats up with this country to the north? Who the fuck is Lenkat? I'll porbably end up you tubing the last ending, cause I have no Idea how long it will be before I have the motivation to play this again. :p

In the end, while I don't think it comes close to living up to the hype, it's still a great game.

[Wolf Kanno]

....And apparently I can't get the third ending because I didn't recruit everyone.

Why the smurf would you need to recruit everyone?

Because you need the war going completely in your favor, it helps make one of the characters make a crucial decision, though if you don't do other things, you can still get screwed out of the third ending.


1) smurf Duals, I don't do RPG's to play Rock Paper Siscors. Thank god there are so few of them.

Your lost, I like how they broke up monotony and they really made some fights more epic than a standard boss fight. The later games also add a ton of cinematic flair.


2) I liked the Massive battles, but they all ended up being so simple you could never really enjoy them, and there was virutallly no stratagy involved on your end. Ended up feeling like wasted time.

To me the War Battles are Suikoden II's biggest weakness, the rest of the series do them better imo with Suikoden V doing the best since it plays out like a simplified RTS system.


3)They did a really good job with the characters considering the smurfing massive size of the cast.

I'm always surprised how well Suikoden does this. Though its hit or miss sometimes. Suikoden I and IV kind of like just throwing characters at you with little explanation compared to the other entries.


4) This game had a problem getting it's villains down. Luca Blight was barely an entity in terms of character. He was pretty much a massive asshole from the get go, and the game went out of it's way to telegraph it. Jowy had a lot of good motivation and was a great character, but he just didn't come across as threatening.

Not going to disagree with Luca Blight but I felt he made a great villain. Jowy wasn't really meant to be menacing, just someone caught under bad circumstances, the real threat with Jowy is more about dealing with Luca Blight's legacy of the True Beast Rune



5) Shu, after the stupid intro arc with him, quickly became a favorite character. Dude got trout done, and wasn't afraid to turn everyone against him for the greater good. This guy was the games highlight for me, especially when he sends Victor in with Pilka to ensure your survival. More games need guys like this capable of preparing against the obvious traps hero's are required to fall in.

The Strategist are always one of the best characters in these games and for me, Shu is easily one of the best.



6) Story, while there were a few odd moments, was really well told and put together. The only real problem is I walk away feeling like you never really get much an explination. Who were the Sindar? Why were me and Jowy destined to fight? Whats up with this country to the north? Who the smurf is Lenkat? I'll porbably end up you tubing the last ending, cause I have no Idea how long it will be before I have the motivation to play this again. :p

Most of this would have been cleared up if you hadn't skipped the first entry. :p

The Sindar/Cyndar is a civilization from before many of the modern countries, they are cursed to forever wander (some fans theorize their leader has some True Rune version of the Blinking Rune Viki uses) and they were highly advanced and knew quite a bit about the True Runes. They have several leftover locations in Falena and the northern countries of the main continent (Jowstown, Grasslands, Harmonia) This game introduces the civilization but they are one of the big mysteries that keeps popping up in the Suikoden series.

Because the True Runes are all basically cursed in one way or another. The True Runes are sentient and some of them seem to have the ability to alter fate to create misfortune (Run of Beginnings, Rune of Punishment, Soul Eater) for its bearer. Basicallly the True Rune of Beginnings forces two people to reenact the creation myth of the Suikoden universe and make the Rune complete. There are two ways to do this, by either killing the other bearer or showing mercy. The Soul Eater would have the people closest to the bearer die so it can consume their souls, the Rune of Punishment would alter fate to force the beaer to use its power which slowly killed the user, the elemental rune will warp the bearer's mind to weakne them mentally so the rune could activate itself, the Sun Rune will give its bearer a god-complex, the Beast Rune causes insanity, the Blue Moon rune transorms you into a Vampire, and well the list goes on. The point is, despite the benefits the True Runes give, you probably don't want them.

I'm guessing the country you are speaking of is Harmonia, well they are pretty much Suikoden's version of the Roman Empire and they cause a lot of problems in the series. Their leader is trying to collect all the True Runes for some purpose and is said to possess the True Circle Rune which governs balance and stagnation. Like the Sindar, they are a recurring element in the Suikoden series and each game expands on them. The Suikoden series is about the world itself and how all the countries relate to each other.

Leknaat was the former Seer for the former Scarlet Moon Empire, she is a survivor of the Gate Rune Tribe whom Harmonia destroyed trying to get the True Rune the village protected. Leknaat and her sister Windy took the True Rune and split it in half which each kept. They have both been in hiding since but over time Windy, traumatized by the destruction of her home, vowed revenge on Harmonia and seeked out the Soul Eater (True Rune of Life and Death) to use its immense power to destroy Harmonia and thus she sets up most of the conflict of Suikoden 1. Leknaat on the other hand has been trying to guide the people chosen by the True Runes down a certain path that most fans speculate is going to be the confrontation with Harmonia, though we'll probably never know now.

As for the order of the series its:
Suikoden Tactics -> Suikoden IV -> Suikoden V -> Suikoden -> Suikoden II -> SuikoGaiden 1 -> SuikoGaiden 2 -> Suikoden III

Suikoden Tietries and the other for PSP are reboots and have little to do with the main series.