The Latest in my random antics! Playthrough of Suikodens 1-3 + SuikoGaiden!

[NeoCracker]

As the title says, I will be playing through the entire Chronology of the first few games!

Suikodens IV, V, and Tactics I won't be doing as I hear they don't really connect to much to the other games Chronology, and with the resent release of the SuikoGaiden Vol. 1 Fan translation, I figured I'd play through the entirety! I will be reading the cliffnotes for Vol. 2 though, just to get the Idea of what happened prior to Suikoden 3.

I'll be using a guide only for the 108 Stars of Destiny, cause I know I'm going to miss people otherwise. There is to damn many to recruit.

Afterwords I may do the other games, but for now I play!


I begin by naming my character Vargas....

Edit: Essentially this is more a 'lets talk about how great this game is' then a Let's play. :p

Edit: And being dumb I leave northwest of the Capital, end up leving up a few times, and going through the mountain pass only to realize the Dragon Knight I was suppose to find was sitting in town...

I did get the Holy Orb to allow me to dash though! And a few Rune Pieces for Weapons!

[Shauna]

SV takes place not long before SI, and it is also really good, so you should probably play it. xD

[NeoCracker]

True, but anything I look at seems to imply the events of Suikoden V aren't really related to those of 1-3. I will play it one day, but I'm more interested in the Shenannagis of the others, given I beat 2 and all that did was leave me wondering what the fuck was going on in the area. :p

[Roogle]

It is kind of awkward because you chose a name very similar to Varkas, a bandit that appears early in the first game.

[NeoCracker]

Yeah, I noticed this fairly early. :p

Edit: And I am on my way to Great Forest to help the Elves!

[Wolf Kanno]

You should play Suikoden IV and V because they do fill in some details about the Scarlet Moon Empire. Not to mention Suikoden V finally explains the backstory of Georg Prime which Suikoden 2 only hinted at. Interesting to note, both the Island Nations and the Queendom of Falena were first mentioned in Suikoden II if you kept up with investigating all of your recruits.

Its also a very good idea to use a guide to collect the 108 stars in Suikoden I because the game is pretty devious about recruiting some of them. Pesmerga is always been a pain to get but Leon Silverburg, Clive, and Pahn are all Guide Dang Its (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GuideDangIt).

I really dislike the Elf section of Suikoden I but at least it ended in a way you don't completely expect. Have I mentioned one of my favorite things about Suikoden is that the series as a whole makes it a point to screw the elves over for being racist arrogant pricks? Seriously, it sucks being an elf in any game they show up in. Kwanda's section is one of two really cringe inducing sections of the game because Suikoden really played too many fantasy cliches straight and most of the non-human races in Suikoden I are assholes. Milich's section is also played more silly than it should have been, which is a shame cause some important things happen in it. Still, the first game may be really silly at times and certainly rough around the edges but I still have a fond place for it. One of those games I enjoyed before I became a pretentious "games are art" asshole I guess. :p

As for the Rune shards for weapons, except for Water Rune Shards, their are a finite amount of the other elements.

Water - Gives a Regen Effect that regenerates 5HP per Rune shard, add water element to Weapon
Lighting/Fire - Raise damage by a certain %, adds Fire/Lightning element to weapon
Earth - Raises Skill by 2, adds Wind element to weapon (you read that right)
Wind - Raises Defense by 3, add Earth Element to weapon.

Wind and Earth are glitched and somehow got their properties switched.

Stacking Lightning and Fire doesn't raise the effect, you should spread them around.

Earth Rune Pieces are supposedly dropped by the Boar enemies in the Gregminister region but I have never gotten them to drop so I'm not sure if their is a glitch preventing them from being obtained.

Water Rune pieces can be easily farmed and give some characters a much needed defensive boost (I like sticking it to Gremio's weapon personally) but sadly Water is kind of the weakest element to have on your weapon as not many enemies are weak to it.

Who is your party so far? Thoughts about Viktor and Flik's humble origins?

[NeoCracker]

And I just beat Neclord....

[NeoCracker]

Okay, I didn't update, but I beat SUikoden 1 quite some time ago. :p

Anyway, it was good. Not great or anything, but good. Didn't really fill in as much about Leknaat as I would have liked, but hey, a bit more details were nice.

I liked Flik less in this one, though still a good character. I also like how Luc transitioned from being kind of an amusing and arrogant dick to being a slightly more serious and slightly less dickish version in the next game.

On a whole, it doesn't seem like you would need to play one to get 2 at all, though there are some nice connections between the two.

I did wonder what became of the Soveriegn Ruin though, I assume the new ruler possess's it.

Anyway, I've been on 2 for a while, and I'm to the second fight with Neclord. Overall, the experience is the same for me playing it, though I have more characters now since I'm using a guide for them. :p

And fuck Trading, it's a stupid system and I'm saddened I have to take part just to get a recruit.

[Raistlin]

I agree that you should play IV and V. You should play V because it's the most polished game in the series; it is better done than Suikoden II, though I still prefer II's powerful story and characters. And you should play IV so you can read the LJ spinoff of the game that Bleys is now hosting, which is one of the funniest things ever put on the internet.

Suikoden III (which I assume you're one now due to the usernote you left me) is also a great game that I may like as much as SV due to stronger characters, but it is very unpolished. Between the fixed camera, the silly buddy system in battle, and the unintentional hilarity of blowing up your own party with the Self-Immolation Fire Rune, the game has its... quirks, to put it mildly. But the characters and story are great, and the gameplay is generally fun. Until you fight Yuber, at least. But SIII is a very good, if unpolished, transition to 3D and a longer game (can take ~50 hours, depending on how thorough you are).

[NeoCracker]

WEll, here are my notes on Suikodgaiden I noted!

Starting up SUikoGaiden Vol. 1, a Visual Novel oddly, I am playing as Nash Latkje, a Special Agent
of Holy Harmonia's Sothern Frontier defense on my way to Muse to infultrate it. Seems he's in search
of one of the 27 True runes, presumably the Rune of the Beginning.

Might be oddly translated Dialogue, cause it made it sound like they aren't sure if the True
Runes actually exist or not, though from 2 one of their Generals posses's the True Wind Rune.

And Nash is carrying Sierra on his back all the way to Harmonia to Muse... This is smurfing
awesome. He Describes her as 'A Sly and arrogant old woman who doesn't have even an ounce
of shame.'



And for those interested, here is a Harmonian's view of a True Rune.

'The 27 True Runes are the source of energy for this world. It's said that their bearers gain
immortality and incredible strength. I wouldn't believe it for a second if I wasn't traveling
with one of them.'

...Huh, Sierra is coming here in search of the True Moon Ruin, so it's taking place sometime
during SUikoden 2 it would seem.

Either way, I stay at a mansion Sierra seems to know the owner of, get attacked at the night
and am fighting my way to the Vampire owner of the mansion, which was Sierra's plan all along.
I learn that Nash here is a ember of the 'Howling Voice Guild' which is trained in the secrets
of Gunpowder and Gun Making. Said the guild holds a unique position in Harmonia. However he never
became a gunner, but does keep on hand some gunpoweder.

And the vamp in question is Rean Penenberg. AND NOW SIERRA STORY TIME!


...THAT WAS smurfING SAD! :cry:

It has been a while since I have seen the premise that vampirism is a curse handled so
wonderfully. Sierra just got even better after this, and you learn more about the vampires
of Blue Moon Village.

Now on to chapter 2....

You finally get to muse, after some kids tried sneaking in with a fake pass....

ANyway, he infultrates a highland camp to investigate possible use of the Beast Rune, and it turns
out Nash here was the guard that let Jowy and friend into the tent for some butter! XD

To wrap this up, as I've already finished, you get some fun details on Luca Blight, Jowy,and the fall
of Greenhill. Hell, you even find out it's this guy who tells Kahn about Sierra, who helps
defend Greenhill Prior to Jowy getting thier to beat it. It's also Nash and Shin who rescue
Teressa and get her into hiding.

Here's waiting for Vol. 2 to get translated so I can play the second half of his story, which
seems as though we'll get more information on Harmonia!

I'm only a short way into III right now. I like how one of the characters mothers is Lucia, and I've already managed to hurt myself with the water Rune. AoE attacks are horrid in the prescence of you being unable to fully control positioning of troops.

I'll get to IV, V, and Tactics after my playthrough of this set. :p

Edit: Okay, it's only some magic that does taht, not all aoe. Still though, that kills the usefulness of a good chunk of magic.

And dear god this camera. Oh dear fucking god this camera.

[Wolf Kanno]

I did wonder what became of the Soveriegn Ruin though, I assume the new ruler possess's it.

Sources pretty much confirm its MIA along with Barbarossa and Windy who were retconned from KIA to MIA as the series went.


And smurf Trading, it's a stupid system and I'm saddened I have to take part just to get a recruit.

Trading system is okay in SII, III probably handled it the best since there were easier exploits and more "get rich quick" options than the other games.




Here's waiting for Vol. 2 to get translated so I can play the second half of his story, which
seems as though we'll get more information on Harmonia!

Yeah the bulk of info concerning Harmonia comes from Suikogaiden and Suikoden III, as well as source books but those are a given. Its a shame the series was basically cancelled and rebooted as something different.


I'm only a short way into III right now. I like how one of the characters mothers is Lucia, and I've already managed to hurt myself with the water Rune. AoE attacks are horrid in the presence of you being unable to fully control positioning of troops.

Edit: Okay, it's only some magic that does that, not all aoe. Still though, that kills the usefulness of a good chunk of magic.

While you can't directly control a characters movement, you can influence it with the skill system and leveling your party members. Your characters actions kind of work on a point system and several factors can influence it but basically how much they do in battle will influence whether they will get out of the way of AoE damage. Skills like Precision will also factor in as well as the character's proficiency in their particular spell rune, so basically keep leveling up and you'll almost never notice "friendly fire". Holy Dash is kind of one of the most overlooked skills, but it makes your characters movement cost less and allows them to do more in battle (like move out of the way).

I happen to like the Buddy system since Melee fighters tend to work better with passive runes like the Killer or Fury Runes so losing the ability to select attack, never felt like a big deal to me, especially as I played the game more often. It just meant that you had to pay more attention to how you leveled and selected skills. Honestly, I feel the game has some of the most underappreciated gameplay in the series.


I'll get to IV, V, and Tactics after my playthrough of this set. :p

Amusingly, I restarted my own playthrough of the series I started a while ago when I was doing work for the Suikoden Wikia, so I'm finishing up Suikoden III and will be moving onto Suikoden IV, doing my first complete run-through of Suikoden Tactics, and finally a long overdue replay of Suikoden V.

[Roogle]

Anyway, it was good. Not great or anything, but good. Didn't really fill in as much about Leknaat as I would have liked, but hey, a bit more details were nice.

Unfortunately, the series continues to be vague about Leknaat throughout the entirety of the series. It is a shame that the series stopped its continuity as she was one of the characters that I was completely unsure about. There are a couple other mysteries in the series that are alluded to across multiple games. Despite this, there were never concrete answers delivered to players. I think this is one of the downfalls of the series; it is good to construct a long story that can span multiple games, but if you have different writers come in or fail to create another game, then the story is lost forever. That is the primary reason that I am hesitant to welcome new players to Suikoden because of that disappointment.

[Wolf Kanno]

I have finished Suikoden III including the sixth chapter, and moved into Suikoden IV which is always an odd game for me. I've played it a few times but my memory of the game's story is really muggy so in some cases the game feels a bit new to me. In some ways I feel the game gets more hate than it deserves and in other parts, I feel its justified. Trying to travel on the world map of this game almost makes me happy that the RPG genre has finally put this element to rest. Its that poorly executed. The game suffers from being really unpolished which is a shame because it could have been a strong entry had it been worked on a little more.

I've reached Obel for the first time and have been tasked with recruiting people but I haven't received my mega ship just yet.

[Raistlin]

SIV's main redeeming feature is that it's quick and easy. True, the world map is unbearable to traverse, and the writing is near nonsensical at times, but the gameplay is fairly enjoyable, and it's the easiest game in the series. Almost absurdly so, between how ridiculously powerful some characters are and the support characters which can basically auto-heal your party after every battle. And up until the final dungeon, the largest dungeon in the game is like 3 screens and takes all of 2 minutes to traverse (though it is annoying if you have to go through it 4 times in a row for a certain character...).

It's still a decent game by itself, but it certainly deserves its reputation for being the worst in the series.

[black orb]

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080628175007/suikoden/images/thumb/4/4a/Brandeau_SIV.jpg/200px-Brandeau_SIV.jpg

Don't get cocky, boy!

[Wolf Kanno]

SIV's main redeeming feature is that it's quick and easy. True, the world map is unbearable to traverse, and the writing is near nonsensical at times, but the gameplay is fairly enjoyable, and it's the easiest game in the series. Almost absurdly so, between how ridiculously powerful some characters are and the support characters which can basically auto-heal your party after every battle. And up until the final dungeon, the largest dungeon in the game is like 3 screens and takes all of 2 minutes to traverse (though it is annoying if you have to go through it 4 times in a row for a certain character...).

It's still a decent game by itself, but it certainly deserves its reputation for being the worst in the series.

This game has lots of issues that bar it from greatness. The story is told poorly, with lots of quick away shots to a character who says one line and the story sequence itself feels really jumpy. Its almost like before the game was released some crazy editor walked in and hacked out a third of the story sequence because it really does seem like you just jump from one plot point to another. This is really just disappointing because the background of the Island Nations and the story of the Rune of Punishment are all really great concepts and the game certainly has its moments but overall, the weak execution of the story just prevents the game from achieving its potential.

The characters are also poorly fleshed out which is really noticeable coming off of Suikoden III which did an excellent job fleshing out a majority of the 108 stars. Even characters who feel like they should be important, like your friends who leave the academy to help you, seem more like background characters than people who held any significant attachment to the main character. Most of the stars are eccentric but few are interesting beyond that. I daresay that recruiting Ted is probably one of the few highlights of the game for me simply for the nostalgia. Troy, in the beginning is presented as a major figure in the game but much like Seifer from FFVIII, he ends up meandering into a background stooge whose later appearances often feel more like the writers throwing him in for the hell of it because they kept forgetting he's there, as opposed to really fleshing them out and allowing him to take center stage. The whole final battle with him feels like the writer tying up a loose end and makes little sense in context.

The gameplay is also a step back, not even considering the downgrade of six man parties to a four member team, the game drastically reduces the amount of runes you have and really cuts down most character specific runes with only Reinbach III, Kika, Ted, and the Hero having unique runes with more colorful animations. The world is easily the smallest of all the games and the encounter rate is ridiculously high for the series which makes traveling without using Viki a total chore.

Still, to not be a total Negative Nancy, the new item crafting system certainly breathed life into both the trade system and the usefulness of the Blacksmith and new tailor character. I also love that IV took III's equipment sets idea and really ran with it with the major draw of customization being the acquisition of materials to build the complete armor sets to get the fancy bonuses. I really love equipment setups like this and its one of the few high points of the games design.

[Raistlin]

I completely agree with you about the jumpy, contrived story. I distinctly remember being in awe at just how forced some of the plot points were, especially on your first visit to Obel. Between the convenient ruins that you explore for no specific reason and the suggestion to start recruiting people just for the hell of it (presumably to have more people at your poker games), it's really like some one high school writer decided to write a Suikoden script and then they realized after-the-fact that certain things were never explained -- so they just added in a random line or two.

A lot of the background characters were definitely done poorly. The silent protagonist can be a powerful literary tool when done well, when there are sufficiently developed characters close to the Hero who can essentially speak for him. This was demonstrated very capably in S1 and S2, where Gremio, et al and Nanami respectively were very well developed -- and through them, the Hero. But Lazlo's friends were never really developed and never given sufficient screen time to speak for him.

It is very interesting to see how the series developed, as S4 had pretty much scrapped everything S3 had done right.

Suikoden I: Completely new series, great potential, but lacked polish.
Suikoden II: Developers obviously learned, as this took everything S1 did and made it at least a little better.
Suikoden III: New platform (PS2 and 3D), so tried a lot of new things. Very strong writing and characters, but lacked polish.
Suikoden IV: Instead of improving on S3, decided to revert all of its advancements, and tried entirely different new things. Most of them flopped, and it still lacked polish.
Suikoden V: What S4 should have been, it took everything good about S2 and combined it with everything good about S3, while polishing up S3's new concepts.

If only other development teams were so capable of learning from mistakes and building on previous advancements.

[Wolf Kanno]

I feel the reason for the erratic jump in quality in the series comes from background elements. Supposedly the series creator originally penned the plot of Suikoden II first but since it was his first time making a JRPG, he wanted to do it right so he gambled by writing a prequel story that eventually became the original Suikoden. I find it interesting how much love this game actually gets, since almost every game has some major shout-out to the first game. Overall, its unpolished because it was a team working on new territory for themselves.

Suikoden II was good because it was the creator's original vision of the game and he learned from his mistakes and player feedback, which is why the game is more solid than the first installment though certainly a bit more buggy. Suikoden III was the team's first foray into a 3D RPG and I daresay they really did some interesting experiments and I felt they approached the concept of what 3D could do for an RPG better than some of the genres peers. The creator also left the company towards the end of the games production which is probably why it does have some polishing issues, and why the last two chapters feel a bit neutral compared to the starting chapters. It has been noted that he left the company on good terms and simply left because he vowed only to work for Konami for a set period of time and then would move on. It just happened that date came around the end of SIII's production.

Suikoden IV was then helmed by the series creators long time friend and collaborator, whose major involvement in the series really goes back to the first game, which is why I feel SIV has so many elements from S1 in it. She was never a major part of the gameplay side so I felt that might be part of the issue of SIV's drop in quality. The game was also one of the first to really be built around using progressive scan TVs and the series finally addressed the issue of the really stiff character models but I'm afraid the use of motion capture actors tends to make some of the character movements fall into uncanny valley from time to time. Not to mention that Hollywood camera techniques tend to hide slow some action movements really are. The game was doing some interesting things but I feel this was an issue of having lost the series visionary along with an inexperienced new head and experimenting with new technology just wreaked havoc on the project. I've heard Suikoden Tactics is a vast improvement and I will find out myself because its next in my own playthrough. I've never played past the first few chapters because I wanted to go through SIV so the world and characters would still be fresh in my mind.

Suikoden V is the odd one. Because as far as my research can tell, it was made with no real input from any of the series major players. Its akin to a new team that isn't the Quest/Ivalice team making a sequel to FFTactics that's debatably better than the original. I think part of the reason for the success was because it was originally meant to be a Suikoden Gaiden game not directly related to the main series and only after it reached a certain point in development did the team and higher ups feel it was worthy of being a true sequel. From what I gathered Suikoden V is pretty much the Suikoden equivalent of FFIX because the game was suppose to be a bit of a throwback title and it really did take the best elements of the last three installments and built them into something great. In a way, what Konami did with Suikoden V is kind of what I wish Squenix would do with FF. A game that looks back and sees what worked in the old installments, bring them together, improve all of them, and wrap them in a brand new story world and add in a bunch of new elements that builds off what made some of the good elements work. Granted SV has its issues like the satellite camera view, and the god awful load times, but I daresay its political plot is superior to even SII and its gameplay is certainly one of the best in the series. Its actually been the game I'm looking forward to playing the most right now but I need to finish SIV (almost at the end, getting ready to liberate Razril) and finally play through Suikoden Tactics before I can touch this game again.

[Raistlin]

How the hell do you know all this shit? xD Do you do background research on every game's development?

Despite S5's polish, it's not surprising that original creators weren't involved. It just lacked some of the emotionally-gripping characters that S1-3 all had, which is the only reason I still enjoy S2 more. But S5 certainly had a very strong overplot, great gameplay mechanics, a radically revamped and in-depth major battle system, and a rich and massive world. I don't think I've ever played another RPG with a traditional world map that felt so vast.

[NeoCracker]

70% of Wolfs gaming experience is digging through reports and stories of any game he is playing.

Yes, this means he spends more time doing that then actually playing games.

[Wolf Kanno]

How the hell do you know all this trout? xD Do you do background research on every game's development?

Despite S5's polish, it's not surprising that original creators weren't involved. It just lacked some of the emotionally-gripping characters that S1-3 all had, which is the only reason I still enjoy S2 more. But S5 certainly had a very strong overplot, great gameplay mechanics, a radically revamped and in-depth major battle system, and a rich and massive world. I don't think I've ever played another RPG with a traditional world map that felt so vast.


70% of Wolfs gaming experience is digging through reports and stories of any game he is playing.

Yes, this means he spends more time doing that then actually playing games.

This is a pretty accurate statement. I'm fascinated by the production side of things, and I couldn't tell you how I probably do know more about some games and movies I've only seen maybe once that a fan probably wouldn't know.

As for SII Vs SV, I can't say for now. My memory of SV is a bit foggy as I only ever played it once and I only remember really enjoying the game so I can't make too many comments on that. I do remember the game being really long though, like finally reaching the point of recruiting characters and being nearly 20 hours in, kind of long.

[black orb]

>>> Hey NeoCracker, dont listen to these guys. Suikoden IV is awesome you get some of this

42597

in your party :bigsmile:..:luca:

[NeoCracker]

Yeah, I have played IV before, for about 4 hours. It was my first Suikoden technically. :P

...And yeah, didn't get that into it.

[Wolf Kanno]

Finally finished Suikoden IV and have entered Suikoden Tactics. ST has proven to be a real interesting game so far. The story still has some pacing issues but it has brought some much needed background information to SIV including fleshing out several characters and finally explaining what was up with SIV's final boss. The gameplay is an odd mix of FFTactics/Tactics Ogre and bit of Fire Emblem (permanent character death) all utilizing the Suikoden gameplay mechanics (Unite Attacks, Rune Slots, MP System, collecting lots of characters) the elemental field mechanics is largely what really sets this game apart from other games of the genre, as it really makes controlling your environment very important. I'm not terribly far in but so far this game has been a vast improvement over SIV. I'm even beginning to wonder about the game's origins and if SIV's development was marred by more issues than people first thought.

[Shauna]

I am currently about 4 main story battles away from finishing Tactics. It is pretty good and I think that if I wasn't so determined to do everything I'd enjoy it more. But, as a completionist, I've had to do all the quests. To do certain quests I've had to *grind* for items.

Grinding. In a strategy RPG. Is actually the worst thing. Ever.

Also I accidentally cancelled out of a quest. That quest happened to be the one for recruiting Jeane. It has never reappeared. I think everything is ruined.

My motivation to keep on this game has dwindled hugely over the months. xD I go back to it every now and again, and maybe do one or two battles. I just can't do it for any length of time, strategy lethargy.

[Wolf Kanno]

I'm hoping I finish it myself, SRPGs have slowly become one of the genres I can't really commit to anymore. I get easily fatigued by the systems and I've noticed that if anything remotely bothers me about the game, I'll never get around to finishing them anymore. I still haven't finished Valkyria Chronicles or Disgaea 3 because of certain aspects of the games. The real issue is that I'm really wanting to move forward and get into Suikoden V but I feel a bit guilty that I'm ditching a game I never finished for one I already have. I've been trying not to do that so I can finally tackle my backlog but I just get in the mood to replay certain games again.