Girls

[Rantz]

is an awesome show.

[charliepanayi]

Yes it is, if excruciating to watch at times. I really enjoy it, it's very funny (especially Ray). The end of the second season was pretty downbeat in its depiction of characters repeating past mistakes, so interested to see where they go from here. Plus Jessa will be back properly next season, Jemima Kirke's pregnancy meant she had to be sidelined for a lot of the second season which was a shame.

[Del Murder]

Never seen it, but I'm told it's racist.

[Calliope]

I have seen this show get a huge amount of attention, and heaped with both praise and scorn from scores of feminist blogs. I have only watched the pilot, which was enough to make me roll my eyes and leave it at that, but I may revisit the series at a later stage, if only due to the consistent and continuous flux of polarized opinions about it.

[Jinx]

Wait, is this that black Sex and the City show?

Or is that Girlfriends?

[Jowy]

...to do the dishes!
...to clean up my room!
...to do the laundry!
...and in the bathroom!

I have no idea what this show's about so I just posted what I was hoping to be inside of the thread.

[Jinx]

This show sounds horrible.

[Rantz]

Never seen it, but I'm told it's racist.

It's exempt from racism by the mere fact that Donald Glover guest starred as a republican.

[Del Murder]

Ok maybe it was sexist then. Or wealthist. One of those.

Isn't the show about a bunch of white rich girls with white rich girl problems?

[charliepanayi]

Ok maybe it was sexist then. Or wealthist. One of those.

Isn't the show about a bunch of white rich girls with white rich girl problems?

Yes. But it's also about being in your 20s and not being sure of your place in the world.

[kotora]

Ok maybe it was sexist then. Or wealthist. One of those.


That could be like almost every show in existence :monster:

[Del Murder]

Not Parks & Recreation.

[Jinx]

I dunno. To me, it just sounds like a Sex and the City knock-off.

Of course it's an HBO show, so.

[Rantz]

I didn't think it sounded very good either, but I gave it a shot before beginning to criticise it! :roll2

[charliepanayi]

It's not really like Sex and the City at all. I'd say it's got some of the The Great Gatsby about it. And the show is honest enough to call out its characters on their BS sometimes.

[Miriel]

I hate-watched this show.

From what I can tell, pretty much everyone I know in real life, the bloggers I follow, the forums I visit, EVERYONE hate-watches this show.

The characters are all horrible despicable people. They are not a normal representation of 20-somethings. I am a 20-something. Most of my friends live in Los Angeles, one of the most superficial and self-involved places on earth. And yet, I literally do not know any single person who is as wretched as Hannah on Girls.

You watch Girls in the same way people watch Jersey Shore. There is a huge element of schadenfreude here. The show is not that intelligent, it's really horribly acted, only occasionally funny. BUT, it is fascinating. You almost can't turn away.

I watched the whole series in a few days of marathoning and the whole time, I was thinking, "WHAT THE FUCK. Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU IDIOTIC PEOPLE?!" But it definitely hooks you in.

I wouldn't say it's enjoyable to watch. It doesn't make for a good time. But it's interesting and there's not much out there similar to it, aside from maybe Shameless.

[charliepanayi]

I think a fair few people watch it because they like it. And the characters are often unsympathetic. But they are not completely so.

[Miriel]

I think a fair few people watch it because they like it. And the characters are often unsympathetic. But they are not completely so.

I'm sure those people exist. I'm just saying that pretty much everyone I've encountered tell me that they hate the show and the characters and feel vaguely creeped out and disgusted after each episode. But regardless, they watched every episode. It's a different kind of television.

Just Google "hatewatching Girls" and you'll get a ton of hits.

"BuddyTV Slideshow | The 12 Best Shows to Hate-Watch from 2012"
"HBO's Girls: Love, Hate or Hate-Watch? – MsBehaved.com"
"The Rise of Hate-Watching: Which TV shows do you love to despise"
"A Guide to Hate-Watching HBO's 'Girls' - BroBible.com"

And so on and so forth.

Also, I do think Hannah is utterly unsympathetic and she's not MEANT to be liked. She is completely self-involved, unintelligent, lazy, dirty, belligerent, etc. But I think it's purposeful. The show goes to great lengths to show us what a asshole she is. Marnie is an asshole too with few redeeming qualities. Adam is a huuuge unstable, possibly mentally insane asshole. Jessa is slightly sympathetic because of her bad childhood, but still an asshole. Shoshanna is the only likable character.

[charliepanayi]

I think Adam has actually become more sympathetic as the series has gone on. Hannah is unpleasant, quite often unpleasant, but I still feel bad for her sometimes. Ditto Marnie. They're young, and people do stupid things, especially when they're young. Plus I love The Sopranos and the characters are far worse than anything you get in Girls. So I'm not averse to shows with unlikeable characters in general.

Also, I don't get hate-watching at all. Life is too short to continue to watch stuff you don't like.

[Miriel]

I think you're kind of misinterpreting hate-watching. There is always some attraction or element of fascination, or else no one would pay attention. I kept watching the show to see just how gross it could get.

It's like rubbernecking at a accident site. Does anyone actually WANT there to be accidents? No, but if there is one, you can't help but watch.

Adam toed the line with nonconsensual sex toward the end of Season 2. And degraded Hannah in the first season. He has no work ethic and relies on Grandma's money to survive. He lives a filthy lifestyle. He lied about getting tested for STDs. I don't sympathise with him at all.

I am young. My friends are young. It's not the actions that are so unrelatable. Young people sleep with the wrong people sometimes, young people do drugs, young people make mistakes. That all makes sense. But it's the attitude of these morons. Young people on the whole are not THIS narcissistic or entitled. These people operate in some sort of fringe society. They're outliers. They are not normal.

It bothers me, this idea that Girls is meant to be some sort of representation of my generation. Some of the stuff rings true, for sure. But they've taken it to a place of surreal hyper reality. Which is fine. It obviously works for the show. But I can't wave off some of the things these people do as them just being young and stupid. That's insulting to young people everywhere. These girls are just ESPECIALLY stupid.

[Calliope]

I just caved and watched the second episode, and it is truly awful. I echo everything hannah has said (thank you for watching the rest of it, so that I don't have to hope it gets better) regarding the characters - they are over-privileged, selfish, stupid, and ultimately unlikable. Where I differ from hannah's opinion, though, is that I'm not sure I can force myself to watch hours of this self-involved, removed-from-reality, conscience-free garbage. Not every character needs to be lovable, but give someone some redeeming qualities, please.

I am curious about what people think Lena Dunham is trying to convey, or to do, other than make money with this show. Regarding the "racism" point, I believe in an interview Ms Dunham said that there were no people of colour on her show because it was based around her experiences - which didn't involve growing up around or interacting with very many minorities in her neighbourhood. So that's fine, but to then go back and introduce Donald Glover into the mix just for the sake of sporting a canned minority makes me grind my teeth. Stay true to your artistic integrity, woman.

There are some things that I can approve of with this show - mainly, using airtime to deal with issues like abortion, possible date-rape, bipolar disorder, self-doubt, navigating technology, the casting of "imperfect" looking actors, etc.

[Miriel]

I should add that almost all the TV shows I watch with the exception of the really beautiful shows like Mad Men or Downtown Abbey, I "watch" by having it on in the background while I work.

If I had to actually sit and watch Lena Dunham's tits flop around, with nothing else to distract me, I probably wouldn't be able to stand it. I currently have Freaks & Geeks playing on Netflix as I write this. I "watch" a crapton of TV shows cause I get to work from home in my pajamas. :D It's like ambiant noise for me.

As far as what the show is meant to accomplish, I really think it boils down to Lena Dunham wanting to appear as "edgy" and "nonconformist" as possible. I really do think she's putting stuff out there that she thinks you won't otherwise see on TV. Thus the number of scenes that take place with people on the toilet.

[Jinx]

*bump*

I've been watching this since this morning. I'm currently half-way through the second season. God, Hannah is probably the least likable television character I've ever seen. More than once I have wanted to just reach out and punch her in the face. She takes no accountability for her actions whatsoever. GAH!

Also, I know there's this whole thing about Lena Dunham being "fat" and "ugly". I don't really think she's either, but why do they dress her in the most unflattering clothes that indeed MAKE her look "fat"? Why don't they actually have her character attempt to do her hair and makeup and not look "ugly"? It's one thing to have an average-looking actress to show that not everyone looks perfect, but they can at least have her reflect most women. That is to say, putting some effort into her appearance.

[The Summoner of Leviathan]

My boyfriend and his friends love this show so I have invariably seen all the episodes and will be watching the new season of it. I am sorta ambivalent about it. There is that train-wreck aspect about it. Sometimes it is hard to watch, especially some scenes with Adam and when he starts drinking again.

I don't think "rich white girl" problems completely defines the show since the whole point of the pilot was that Hannah is lazy so parents are cutting her off. Throughout the series Hannah continually struggles to find work and gainful employment. Marnie, Shoshanah and Jessa do come off more rich white girl problems but the only one living obviously well off is Shoshanah. That is not to say that none of the girls don't come from well off backgrounds, because it seems they do, but that is not simply living out of their parents' wealth for most of them.

While I think that Hannah as a person is unsympathetic and unbalanced, I think a lot of things she, and the rest of the cast, goes through is relatable: struggling to look for a decent job, choices in partners, having own psychological issues, coming into your own, etc...Moreover, the show is often not shy of using its characters to point out the flaws of each other. Hannah bitches Jessa out for being unreliable and never there when you need her. Marnie is called a bitch/manipulative a lot (she's my favourite character, fyi), and Hannah is called out for being lazy and selfish.

As for Hannah's looks, I think it is the point is that she is average and dresses average. If you want someone who dresses up and tries to look pretty then look to Marnie or Shoshanah, or Jessa if you are into something more bohemian. It is not consistent with her character as well. If she is supposed to be lazy, then it follows that she might not necessarily put much effort into her looks. Moreover, while self-absorbed she isn't with her appearance but more of in her own little world/bubble. If anything she is very comfortable with her body. Hannah caring about her looks is about as in-character as Jessa not being flaky and unreliable or Shoshanah being jaded about life.

I wonder what they will do about Marnie since what's his face is not coming back for season 3. I wonder how they will write him out of the show...

Season 3 starts this Sunday...just FYI.

[Rantz]

:O I'm excited!

I agree with TSoL about Hannah's looks. I think it's perfectly suited to her character to not care much about her looks. She's not meant to represent any other type of woman than the type she is.

[Old Manus]

I have no idea what this TV show is but the comments here are making me think it is an American version of Skins.

[Calliope]

I ended up watching this show after all, and I don't think I'd say she dresses average - more at random, with no regard for what is conventionally flattering for her body type. To me, jeans and a t-shirt are average. Hannah dresses in rompers, mini-shorts, random vintage pieces and singlets - items that show a lot of skin and probably weren't cheap.

[Jinx]

Exactly. And maybe I'm being a bitch here and judgmental, but the thing is that we're supposed to look at this woman as the average woman, when she's not. We're supposed to look at her as beautiful and believe that she is. I don't think she is. But she could be. It's just sort of weird--it's one thing to be beautiful in your own skin, it's something different to purposefully go the opposite direction and still be considered beautiful. I dunno.

I will say, the scenes where Hannah was having OCD breakdown was incredibly unsettling and difficult for me to watch. As was the scene where Adam basically date-raped his girlfriend.

I'm disappointed to hear the guy who plays Charlie won't be coming back, because I was really happy he and Marnie got back together.

[The Summoner of Leviathan]

UK Skins > Girls. :D

I think as a body type she reflects the average American woman much more than Marnie or Shoshanah. Quick research shows that the average woman is a size in the USA is 12-14 and that this size range is less likely to wear clothing appropriate for their body shape, especially those who were previously of a single digit size and are now double digit.

I don't think her behaviour reflects the average American woman. Hannah has obvious OCD problems and neurotic tendencies.

References:
About.com on woman sizes (http://fashion.about.com/cs/tipsadvice/a/allaboutfit.htm)
Woman Sizes and Appropriate attire (http://www.cleveland.com/style/index.ssf/2010/08/size_14_is_average_american_wo.html)
More stuff on average woman size in the USA (http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/7/prweb10922959.htm)

I don't think Hannah is necessarily supposed to be "beautiful", she is just who she is. I think she is comfortable in her own skin and if you think that is beautiful then that is up to you. But I don't think it is the case that the audience is supposed to think that Hannah is beautiful or believe so.

[Jinx]

UK Skins > Girls. :D

This.

But yeah, the shows are strikingly similar. Just "twenty-somethings" instead of teenagers.

[Rantz]

I don't think Hannah is necessarily supposed to be "beautiful", she is just who she is. I think she is comfortable in her own skin and if you think that is beautiful then that is up to you. But I don't think it is the case that the audience is supposed to think that Hannah is beautiful or believe so.

Yeah, definitely this. And I think if the show is trying to make any sort of point in the looks department, it's that people focus too much on women's looks. This discussion is a prime example of that. :D

[Miriel]

To be fair, the dominating conversation point when talking about Hannah isn't her appearance, it's her horrendous personality.

But I also don't agree with the idea that Hannah is meant to represent a normal or average girl with her appearance. She seems to deliberately choose outfits that are incredibly ill-fitting or unflattering. It takes effort to look that bad. I also think her sloppy and messy appearance is meant to illustrate her sloppy and messy life and personality. She is not someone who has her life together, and that's reflected in her inability to really dress herself.

It's not like she's alone in the crappy outfit choices. All the girls on the show have bad taste, but they have DIFFERENT bad tastes which reflect their different personalities.

[Calliope]

Really, it is an effort. You have to go out of your way to get clothes like those - it's not like she just went to target and got some sweaters and tee shirts and jeans. I'm not sure if it's supposed to reflect her bohemian/uncoventional/writer-personality, or what, but it's definitely not "average". There is of course far more to this show than the concept of fashion or image, but that was the point we were discussing, so.

[KristaWebster]

I loved that show. Kinda girly but the humor was just awesome. HBO really used to be on top of my favorite channel list

[Night Fury]

I don't watch this show but I just googled Lena Dunham and I think she looks a little bit like our Pike maybe.

[Calliope]

I'm still thinking about this, and maybe we do need more shows like this: Shows that present failure. Arguments with friends, the inability to pay bills, jealousy, not getting the job, going to a great party and not having fun - situations that aren't neatly wrapped up at the end of an episode. Characters that aren't "either/or", but rather "both/and". Sex that isn't just wonderful, consensual and full of chemistry and soft-movie-lighting, but portrayed as vengeful, or degrading, or possibly rape, and the self-doubt and uncertainty that goes with that. Showing that doing unpleasant and unlikable things has consequences - but not always - and that tolerating people being unpleasant toward you, refusing to do hard work and settling for less also has consequences.

However, I think that this show will always make me uncomfortable. I wish we had more shows about experiences of poor people, or people of colour, or solo parents on welfare, or people with disabilities, or immigrants, but I also think that there are a lot of debt-ridden white people out there with disappointed dreams and overpriced data plans who can probably relate to this show. Good for them. Lena Dunham, however, is not such a person - she's the child of two rich artists, who was sent to a private liberal arts college, and has had the privilege of being able to attend therapy for her OCD since she was seven years old. There's something very unsettling about seeing her use her connections to launch her career (even if that career is sustained with hard work), and then see her squirm out of having any sort of accountability around issues of class, race and privilege. It seems a bit odd to me because so much of her work is obviously self-referential, but the way she has opened up the scope for her show (using upper-middle class people instead of outrageously wealthy people who don't run the risk of being cut off) in a way that seems to water down the issues instead of presenting new or different ones. Is it an artist's duty to get on their soapbox? Perhaps not, but a wasted opportunity is still a pity, especially if it can be argued that the art one is producing is not even entertaining or beautiful.

So, sure. It's not Friends, but this show is at the very least, thought provoking.

[Ayen]

I believe I heard about this show in passing when it was named dropped on the Most Popular Girls in High School YouTube series, but outside of that and this thread never heard of it nor followed anything about it. But outside of GoT I don't watch much HBO anyway. Doesn't sound like anything I would personally enjoy so... pass.

[LunarWeaver]

I love this show. I wish I could watch it with Rantzien in our jammies. :cheers: