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View Full Version : Since the Suikoden III playthrough currently can't happne.... To Xenosaga 1-3!



NeoCracker
04-13-2013, 04:06 PM
So far, I've made it to the area where you control Jr.

And I must say, there is quite a bit that already sets up for events and revelations all the way up to Xenosaga 3. You find some basic prints for T-elos when you are on the U-Tic Ship as Jr., and when you board the else there are two moments that show some kind of link between Chaos and KOS-MOS, as well as a hint at the link between Chaos and Windhelm.

I managed to beat the Robot in Ziggy's intro without needing to do it with the E.V.S. later, so With just Ziggy and Momo. It was good fun. Anyway, off to finish Jr.'s map!

Edit: And there's a lot more cleavage then I remember. :p

Raistlin
04-13-2013, 09:54 PM
Why can't the S3 playthrough happen? :mad2: I was just thinking about bugging you for updates.

NeoCracker
04-13-2013, 10:03 PM
My PC can't emulate it properly, so I would be running it at 35-40FPS, and staring at it for more then 20 minutes gives me a headache. (Not that it looks bad or anything, the Color Pallate just hurts my head for some reason).

Xenosaga I have no such problem with. :p

Edit: And Fuck, I forgot how fucking hard Cherenkov/Gargoyle was.

Ultima Shadow
04-15-2013, 03:45 AM
I remember I did a Xenosaga 1 challenge ages ago, with the following rules:



1) Never use any tech points or skill points.
2) Never upgrade your AGW's.
3) First armour only, no accessories.
4) No power-leveling.



It makes things quite a bit more challenging. :greenie:

NeoCracker
04-15-2013, 06:06 AM
Don't really care much for running challanges myself. :p

Currently up to the Song of Nephalim. I forgot about quite a few things in this game oddly enough, though nothing major. :p

I did forget how enfuriating the fight in the KOS-MOS Mainframe was, when you have to get the K.O. with both Jr. and Shion.

Never really use the AGW's in the game anyway, so upgrading them would do me no good anyway. :p

Also, I really appriciate how they have a child character who isn't annoying as smurf!

Current party is KOS-MOS, Chaos and Jr. Shion's Ether Points were pretty much used to give Chaos Revert, Medica Rest, and Medica All, so she's sidelined now.

KOS-MOS and Jr. had been investing all tech points into stat bumps until fairly recently, where I gave each one of them two techs into the high slots, and now I'm just powering them up.

All Chaos's Tech Points go into his stats, so he can heal and magic people. :p

It's nice seeing a lot of the things they had been setting up for, and catching the stuff that sets up for everything that happens later. (The T-ELOS prints for example, and even Chaos convincing Mathews to allow Shion on board.)

Well, time to fight through the Song of Nephalim!

Edit: But to be a bit critical of a couple things.....

Okay, why would they not leave someone behind with Momo? I mean, I know that I couldn't ahve done anything since it was Albedo coming for her and what not, but seriously. She's not combat made, they establish this in terms of story by this point. DON"T LEAVE HER ALONE!

And why would Tony agree to show Shion the top of the song? This is way to damn dangerous. And we didn't even learn anything. Ooooh, Shion saw the thing on Miltia we confirmed twenty minutes ago was the cause of the Catastrophe on Miltia.

NeoCracker
04-17-2013, 06:21 AM
Xeno 1 has been finished, and I'm a short way into Episode 2. Going directly from one to the other, I'll say the voice changes are a bit of a whiplash. Mostly I found myself sad that Helmer was no longer voiced by Jet, but really the VA's are still good. I actually prefer Chaos's VA here, I enjoy the more sol om voice he's portrayed with.

The desing changes are hit and miss. I much prefer Shion's design in this game, though at the same time Jr.'s face seems much more plain and unexpressive.

The opening does bring into question, however, at what point did Chaos directly involve himself in Wilhelms plans? I know Episode one his involvement started with telling Mathews to allow Shion on board, though his involvement during the Miltian conflict brings up two possibilities. Firstly being he involved himself there, the second being his actions during this section were inconsequential. Not a huge deal either way, as regardless he was outside of the predictions of the Compass of Order, but it would still be nice were it to be clarified.

Albedo doesn't take long to steal the show after his hacking of MOMO, I like how he's shown as both insane, and rather clever. Time to dive on in!

Roogle
04-17-2013, 06:52 PM
One of the interesting things to note is that Shion reverts back to her voice from the first game in the third game. The series was handled very oddly. I think that they lost a lot of fans during Xenosaga II.

NeoCracker
04-18-2013, 04:43 AM
Yeah, between the long wait time between the two games, and the fairly obvious flaws game 2 has, and even pretty poor reviews on all games by critics, the series lost a lot of steam when 2 hit shelves. Which is really a shame.

Playing through now, while it's certainly a downgrade, the actual combat mechanics aren't that bad. Most problem comes from the fact to many enemies are given a lot of hit points, and even non-boss fights can drag on for to long.

The Dropping of an equipment system in favor of the equip able abilities kind of fails too, as it's like the Xenosaga 1 skill extraction system, which basically allowed you to have 6 accessories equipped (3 accessories, and three slots for accessories you extract from) and now you get 3 slots. An interesting premise, but badly executed.

Also I think my memory exagerated the characters being to similar. There is still plenty of reason to use certain characters over others, though the gap is shortened from what it was in Episode one, and it dissapointed me.

Probably the biggest problem mechanics wise was dropping the Tech system, where you could set and upgrade a variety of Techs with each character, in favor of the Break system. I actually think the Break System has some merit, most notably it forces you to actually pay attention to what attacks you use, and makes you alter your strategy depending on the full group you bring (Chaos, for example, being unable to hit air-bound opponents). The problem is in comparison to the Tech System of 1, this offers little variety. The game takes away a lot of the customization from 1, which was customizable in a way that gave you a lot of combat options as well as keeping all your characters unique, and instead we have different methods of customization which doesn't give you the same room to play with, while at the same time encouraging choices that limit party differences. It's kind of like the LIscence board in 12, why wouldn't you keep at least a little healing on everyone, as well as put on all the passive abilities that don't take up one of your skill slots?

Of course, I don't think it's possible to deny how damn well written the game is. In terms of the overall plot of the series it doesn't move forward much, but damn the story it does tell is told absolutely beautifully. Shion is the only odd factor here. Mostly in her reactions to Albedo and Jr., you kind of sitting their wondering what her thought process's are when she say this shit. 'Don't you want to make peace with your brother?'.....

Albedo has killed god knows how many people, activated the Song of Nephalim, and is out to Psychologically torment everyone. Tell me Shion, why the fuck are you wanted the Jr. and Albedo to make peace? Sympathising with Jr. is one thing, but if anything you should be more worried about finding a way to end the psychotic madman trying to connect with U-DO, just saying.

But again, ignoring her odd dialogue, as most of the cast seem to do in regards to this subject, amazing writing.

Just lost to Albedo's traps and he now has the Y-Data.

Wolf Kanno
04-18-2013, 06:25 AM
Episode II pretty much killed the franchise, most people were surprised that Namco green lighted Episode III after how poorly Ep II did. It wasn't helped that between the end of Episode 1 and getting into Episode III, Monolith Soft suffered some bad strife with the publisher and lots of mismanagement had several key members leave including Yasunori Mitsuda and Soraya Saga. Saga is notable because she left because of what Namco did to Episode 2 because most of Episode 3 was suppose to be in Episode 2 as well but got removed because the higher ups wanted to milk the series for longer.

The main issue with Episode 2 is that it was suppose to be part of Episode 1 but got cut due to time constraints and other executive meddling. If you watch the first major trailer for Episode 1 back in 2001, you'll notice some scenes from Episode 2 are in it using the Eps 1 engine, not to mention a few scenes that didn't make it into either game.

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It should be noted that when Xenosaga was originally started, Tetsuya Takahashi and Monolith Soft were going to release the series much like Xenogears (Episode 5) was suspected to be release had Square green lighted the series, and have each numbered title set in its own part of the timeline, with its own unique casts with only KOS-MOS, chaos, and the Zohar being the connecting element between the stories. So Episode 1 was originally meant to be the what became the actual three episodes released. It was suppose to be Shion's complete story and then jump to a new time period afterwards. That of course didn't happen, partially because the project was probably more ambitious than anyone thought it would be, and partially because the economics of the game industry came into play.

The other issue with 2, as NeoCracker sort of mentioned was that it did very little to really move the plot. Episode 2 is largely a side story about Jr. and very little else happens, with characters like chaos and KOS-MOS getting little to know character development. Also, the development team ended up retconning a lot of Episode 2 when they made the DS game Xenosaga 1 & 2. The stories of Ep 2 in both are largely different outside of the stuff about the U.R.T.V.s and characters like Voyager and the Red Testament got a bit more screentime in the DS version. Episode 3 is actually based off the timeline established in the DS version, not the actual PS2 release.

Ep. 2 is a such a mess, even Monolith Soft wants to forget about it. I'm also happy to see that my years spent on a Xeno-forum have actually come into use.

Scotty_ffgamer
04-18-2013, 07:44 AM
Maybe I just missed something, but I didn't notice anything in that trailer that never appeared in the first two games.

I will say that I will never understand the flack that Xenosaga II gets. It may not have been what was originally envisioned with the series, but that doesn't change the fact that the story in II is amazing. I may just have differing tastes than a lot of people, but I was never bothered that the overall plot wasn't moved very much in the grand scheme of things. I was too busy being in awe of the story being told at hand. The only thing bad for me when I last played it was how jarring the change in visuals/voices were after playing II immediately after I. Also I preordered II when it first came out specifically for the preorder bonuses. When I went to pick up the game they told me "Sorry, we ran out. Those were only for the preorders." One of my worst days in my childhood, haha. Also, the visual/voice change is pretty jarring when playing II immediately after I.

I think I'm going to go back to playing through this series again now that I have some more free time with student teaching being done for me.

NeoCracker
04-18-2013, 12:32 PM
It get's a lot of flack mostly for being a step back in both terms of customization and gameplay, but I digress. :p

Anyway, currently at the Orthus Stronghold, the place you go just before reaching Old Miltia.

I can't remember her name, sad as I just killer her, but the white haired chick with the Light Saber. I think she's a character he got a lot cut given her in-battle dialogue. Some kind of system activates and is restrained, she yells out 'damn you Sellers', yet there really isn't any context for either line. Pretty challenging fight though.

Edit: Also, since I didn't do it earlier, one of my favorite lines in Episode one, that really starts to set up why I love Wilhelm as much as I do.

This was about Albedo during the credits.

"Still, his will shines with such Wonderous Light. It's a shame to relegate him to such a minor Role, don't you think?"

Edit2: And god some of these GS quests are annoying.

Scotty_ffgamer
04-18-2013, 06:09 PM
Such a good quote from I. I guess I can understand why people liked it less, but it wasn't the awful train wreck of a game people make it out to be. I'm really just in it for the story rather than the game play anyways. That's just me though.

You seem to be going through the games pretty quickly. It has motivated me to start playing again today.

NeoCracker
04-18-2013, 07:17 PM
I do think it gets a lot more flak then it deserves, but I can't deny the problems either, such as the E.S. Combat being horribly lacking. Though we do get lines like this to make up for it....

"Were you born that dumb, or did your drunk mama slap you on the wrong end when you squirted out!"

Bolivar
04-19-2013, 09:45 PM
Alright wtf is up with Tetsuya Takahashi and his inability to grasp how long a video game should be? Xenogears took me about 60 hours on a (more or less) straight playthrough, and that's with a TON of gameplay removed from story sequences AND even more story sequences he would have liked being cut from the game. Now supposed Xenogears I-III was supposed to be one game? Really?

Don't get me wrong, I love 100+ hour playthroughs, but that's with doing a lot of side content. Was Xenoblade similarly cut? How long is it?

NeoCracker
04-19-2013, 11:12 PM
Thats why I would argue that on paper, I don't know if it can be argued otherwise, but XenoBlade is his best designed game.

Either way, currently I'm at Proto Omega, so the games final dungeon. Current Party consists of Jr., Chaos, and Jin. Technically my party would have been more useful were Jin swapped with KOS-MOS, but I felt like using the original Miltia three for a bit of flavor. :p

And god I forgot how awesome Dmitri was. His VA really sells it.

NeoCracker
04-20-2013, 04:35 AM
And Episode 2 is vanquished! Huzzah!

That last bit with Albedo and Jr. is depressing. :cry:

Though, during the scene after the credits, we see probably the games best line.

Blue Testament: So what are we going to do with him?
Wilhelm: I said it was a shame, didn't I?
*White Testament appears*

I would like to say, Xenosaga's two combat, while a few steps back from One, the Mech fights being more then a few steps back from that, wasn't really all that bad. Really it's just murdered by the fact ones was better, and a god awful customization system. (Well, and a wasted Dual tech set up).

Well, soon I'll start on 3!

Before that though, I'll be reading through this, a Fan-translation of Pied Piper.

http://zarathustra.kaisho.org/chap1-1.php