Final Fantasy X is Objectively the Best Final Fantasy

[Madame Adequate]

Prove me wrong.

[Jinx]

It's not my favourite (is my second favourite), but this is absolutely true.

[Pike]

Yeah, even if it's not the best it's definitely in the top three. I think it was just really well-rounded and well-done all around.

[Slothy]

You don't like Tactics MILF. That's really all the proof anyone needs that your taste in FF's is awful and that there's probably a tumour growing in your brain that you should have checked out.

[Laddy]

The battle system is good, one of the best. The music is too. However, the plot is relatively unoriginal (special magic person guided to elemental shrines to pray and summon creatures with which she will giver her life to save the world with), the characters all fit Final Fantasy archetypes down to the number, the voice acting and direction is bad in most cases, hurting the drama despite some talented people behind it. This is not really as up for debate as people can claim.

The localization is meh and the writing/dialogue is painfully stilted, cardboard, and uninspired, with some of the most obvious, intelligence-insulting lack of subtlety that manages to flanderize, demean the intelligence, and belittle the seriousness and intelligence of its own character and plot, especially with such moments as Seymour's childishly over-the-top metaphorical villain speeches, Tidus' constant inability to express his angst and daddy issues without resorting to full-on whining, and Yuna's awkward, flat displays of passion with words of wisdom from a pre-teen girl's bible study. In short, show, don't tell. And yet this game insists on telling you the character's struggles multiple times at the expense of developing characters like Kimahri or Lulu or getting into the admittedly interesting lore.

The game is linear and manages to diminish the life of its world by making the game so closed-off, with the sheer natural beauty being reduced, with a few exceptions, walkways. Also, the themes are not presented in a manner that makes the game seem preachy, and while there are moments of pathos, they're undermined by countless moments of melodramatic and direct communication of the games' themes, which is the worst way to present a theme or message in a way that can correlate with daily life as the player is not required to connect the message to a real-world parallel.

In short, MILF, you once again make a sweeping statement about something you are incorrect about (and relative).

[Rocket Edge]

Fuck this shite! I agree with you milf, X was an amazing experience to me. I love the game so much! (I made about 10 mistakes out of pure drun,keness that i corrected - so happy lad) but yeah. The experience of X has lived with me so long. Even the songs that the great Nubuo came out with makes me feel so nostalgiac (is that a word?) yeh mnag!

[XxSephirothxX]

Seymour's hair.

[Skyblade]

You are wrong because there is no objective scale for "best".

Some individual categories might have such a scale (for example, graphical resolution), but judging strictly by technical, measurable standards would not yield FFX as the "best" in almost any category, and certainly not overall.

Getting past technical standpoints, we reach the quasi-quantifiable issues. Things like "most mini games" are measurable, but fail to take into account quality, not to mention varying definitions of the terms used.

Then there is the question of how far down to break major categories. For example "best art design" can be split into "best monster design", "best world design", and "best character design". But each of these can be further subdivided, as well as each being weighed differently by each individual judge. Objectively, each category would have to be weighed either equally, or proportionately to screen time, while to many judges, a particular aspect may be far more important.

And then, of course, there are the majority of unquantifiable aspects of the game. There is no objective measure for aesthetics (not simply visual, but of any type). Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some people love Khimari's design, some hate it, some just don't care one way or the other. Some people love the world design, others don't. Characterization, lore, music, customization, gameplay, even the structure of levels, none of these things can be objectively measured.

With the majority of the game (and, to most people, the most important parts of the game) being subjective, your assertion falls apart. And if you ignore the subjective parts and focus on what can be judged objectively, FFX is not likely to come out on top, even if you could find an objective way to weight all the various issues at hand.

Is FFX a great game? Sure. Is it the best FF game? Possibly. Certainly to some people. Is it objectively the best? No.

[maybee]

There's a game called " Final Fantasy VI " out there, so by that it can't be the best.

[chionos]

So, which Final Fantasy gets referenced in Morrowind?

[Pike]

So, which Final Fantasy gets referenced in Morrowind?

Pokemon does!

[NeoCracker]

Seymour's hair.

Yeah, I think this pretty much destroys you MILF.

[Pike]

I honestly don't get how people can dislike the characterization, it's some of the best I've seen in a video game or really in any media. Backstories and setting them up where handled really well; there were some really nice writing techniques utilized in this game.

[Madame Adequate]

ITT lots of opinions and no proofs :greenie:

[Quindiana Jones]

/MILF states an opinion about a game

/check thread to see his degree of wrongness

/post about his wrongness

/leave thread

[NeoCracker]

ITT lots of opinions and no proofs :greenie:

Denying Seymores hair is god awful is like denying evolution. :colbert:

[Pumpkin]

Sharky says Seymore is preggers.

He was too lazy to post this himself :|

[Formalhaut]

The game is essentially a proto-FFXIII.

- Long walkways.

- A more expansive, open area, that is situated towards the end of the game (Calm Lands / Gran Pulse)

- The mini-games are not the best (FFX: Annoying, tedious, loooong. FFXIII: Non-existent, hunting one is loooong)

- The status quo is overturned (Yevon is falsified, summons gone. Cocoon and Fal Cie fall)

- Weapon customisation systems

- Both have console sequels


There's probably more, but they're the ones I can think of!

[Quindiana Jones]

- They're both not as good as IX, XII or Tactics.

[Depression Moon]

The battle system is good, one of the best. The music is too. However, the plot is relatively unoriginal (special magic person guided to elemental shrines to pray and summon creatures with which she will giver her life to save the world with),

That long line makes it sound the opposite from what you're trying to say and what other games even have a plot like that

and I know Wolf Kanno is definitely going to have a good argument on this

[Madame Adequate]

- They're both not as good as IX, XII or Tactics.

Being this wrong means you have forfeited your Pod set.

[chionos]

The answer, btw, to which FF gets referenced in Morrowind, is FFVI, the best FF.

As in, not FFX.

Are you saying they were wrong?

Also, see Quint's post. So very much the truth.

[Karifean]

Why do people let themselves be bothered by Seymour's hair?

Also, FFX is totally the best FF. It's the one that keeps getting better over every subsequent playthrough and always has you come back to it every once in a while.

[Jinx]

FFVII is in no way the best FF.

[Pike]

The answer, btw, to which FF gets referenced in Morrowind, is FFVI, the best FF.

As in, not FFX.

Are you saying they were wrong?

FFX wasn't out yet when Morrowind was in development. xD Also when was FF6 mentioned in Morrowind? I don't remember this and I'm curious.

Edit: Oh wait some room in a dungeon was called Kefka something something? I think?

[chionos]

The answer, btw, to which FF gets referenced in Morrowind, is FFVI, the best FF.

As in, not FFX.

Are you saying they were wrong?

FFX wasn't out yet when Morrowind was in development. xD Also when was FF6 mentioned in Morrowind? I don't remember this and I'm curious.

Edit: Oh wait some room in a dungeon was called Kefka something something? I think?

That's right. Kefka.
IF FFX WAS SO GREAT THE MORROWIND DEVELOPERS WOULD HAVE KNOWN ABOUT IT EVEN IF IT WASN'T OUT YET. Although, there was time for them to throw something in. If FFVI had come out in 2001, IT would still have been referenced. =P

[Pike]

The bulk of Morrowind was made in like 1998-1999, pfffffft. That's when all the great Morrowind stuff leaked out to the fansites. It just took them forever to actually publish it.

ANYWAYS, BACK TO TALKING ABOUT FFX, this game is so great just playing it right now reminds me how much I love it :squee: it's got so much charm to it; all the stuff that most people hate about it just adds to its charm to me.

[Jinx]

I thought Pike knew everything there was to know about Morrowind.

[Pike]

There is always more to be learned.

Morrowind lore is not messing around.

[chionos]

Generation X is the worst generation ever.
Final Fantasy X is the...


Also, and this is serious: There are no Moogles in FFX. Lulu's dolls don't count!

NO MOOGLES!

No Moogles = no FF at all. A pox on ye for thinking otherwise.

[Pike]

Not all good RPGs have moogles in them.

See: Morrowind.

OH HO HO NOW I USE THE MORROWIND ARGUMENT AGAINST YOU! :mwahaha:

[chionos]

Not all good RPGs have moogles in them.

See: Morrowind.

OH HO HO NOW I USE THE MORROWIND ARGUMENT AGAINST YOU! :mwahaha:

Except this isn't about RPGs in general, it's about Final Fantasy in particular.

"Final Fantasy X is Objectively the Best Final Fantasy"

So, yet again you fail in this thread to properly utilize and understand Morrowind!!!!!

I feel like every time I reply, I need to have one more good reason FFX isn't the best Final Fantasy.

So, for further proof: If FFX had never existed, the abomination that is FFX-2 would have never existed.

FFX:
Not the best villain.
Not the best leading man/woman.
Good summons, but not the best.
Good fights, but not the best.
Pretty good story, but not the best.
Some great music, but clearly not the best.
Disappointing ending. (story/battle)

The only thing that brings FFX anywhere close to the likes of FFVI, FFXI, FFXII, FFIX, or even FFVII or FFIV is Blitzball. And the series loses points for completely ruining Blitzball in FFX-2, which is the only reason I bought the game and they're big jerks for not including the full version (should've even been expanded!)

[Pike]

When I play FFX I have lots and lots of fun and it makes me happy.

Are you saying you don't want me to have fun? Are you? :crying:

[chionos]

When I play FFX I have lots and lots of fun and it makes me happy.

Are you saying you don't want me to have fun? Are you? :crying:

When I play Morrowind I have lots and lots of fun and I am super happy.

When I play FFX I have a little bit of fun and I am kind of happy.

Are you saying you want me to play FFX instead of Morrowind? Are you?

[Pike]

When I play FFX I have lots and lots of fun and it makes me happy.

Are you saying you don't want me to have fun? Are you? :crying:

When I play Morrowind I have lots and lots of fun and I am super happy.

When I play FFX I have a little bit of fun and I am kind of happy.

Are you saying you want me to play FFX instead of Morrowind? Are you?

If you want to, then sure. You really can't go wrong with either :love:

So many great games out there :love:

[chionos]

When I play FFX I have lots and lots of fun and it makes me happy.

Are you saying you don't want me to have fun? Are you? :crying:

When I play Morrowind I have lots and lots of fun and I am super happy.

When I play FFX I have a little bit of fun and I am kind of happy.

Are you saying you want me to play FFX instead of Morrowind? Are you?

If you want to, then sure. You really can't go wrong with either :love:

So many great games out there :love:

You weren't supposed to go along with it!

It's true though. Both are great games. FFX is a great game and I love it. It's simply not the best.

[Jinx]

The point of this statement isn't to say that FFX is perfect in every way. It's to say that the combination of all of its strengths outweigh the combinations of all of the strengths of every other FF, which is true.

[chionos]

I know the premise! And it's wrong. The combination of FFX's strengths and weaknesses put it at about third on the FF quality list.


And third is a concession.

[Jinx]

And which Final Fantasies, to you, are one and two?

[chionos]

Well it would be FFVI > FFIX > FFXI > FFX in truth, but I won't count FFXI since a relatively small number of people have played it. So yeah, FFVI, FFIX for sure. Actually we're talking about objective best, not my favorites, so it would be FFIX > FFVI.

:moogle::mogumogu::moogle:

:ffvisad::ffvistrut::ffvisleepy::ffviwag::ffvipatpat::ffvishock::ffviscorn::ffvisexy::ffvilaugh::ffv ising::ffvitrouble::ffviwhat::bou:

dat cast!

:zidane::vivi::dagger::steiner::freya::quina::eiko::salamander:

:ultros::ultros:

[Shauna]

So, for further proof: If FFX had never existed, the abomination that is FFX-2 would have never existed.

But FFX-2 was fun! Dumb as a brick, but fun nonetheless. Can't be wishing fun away.

[chionos]

Can't be wishing fun away.

I don't know how to argue with that!

[Aulayna]

ITT: Trollbait

[LocoColt04]

I'm almost inclined to make an argument in the favor of FFX.

Like... it's difficult not to. If you can forgive the mostly atrocious voice acting (come on, it was their first attempt), there are a lot of other points objectively that could at least make it worth arguing.

Certainly FFVI is the cream of the crop, but is it objectively the best? (YES YES YES IT IS WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO ARGUE THIS)

FFX had a lot of things going for it. Although many of the turns were predictable, I thought the story had a fantastic pace to it. It's one of those things that really matters, at least to me, when it comes to the value of an interactive medium. It was just slow enough to feel like it had a realistic progression with plenty of helpfully dramatic events to urge it forward as needed. The soundtrack was good - an interesting mix, to be sure, but absolutely suited to its needs. The aeon battles were fantastic. Being able to swap your characters out mid-battle was fantastic as well. And while those of us Stateside got smurfed with a lack of International release, everyone else got to be smurfed by Penance.

:D


The game is essentially a proto-FFXIII.Also, this.

The sphere grid remains one of the most customizable ways to level up your characters. While saying "it's my favorite" isn't an objective statement, saying "it rivals the license board in terms of customization" is.

SHOOPUF.

Ride ze shoopuf?

Blitzball, once you were comfortable with it, was a hell of a fun minigame. Okay, sorry, fun isn't objective. Um... user-friendly? Addictive? I think I had one file with 60 hours of blitzball in it...

Unique ultimate weapon "quests" for each character. (even if some were stupidly more rage-inducing than others)

Rikku. ;)



There's nothing at all here individually that tells me that FFX is the best. But, when you roll all of it together, I think it stands to reason that the game is certainly at or at least near the very top of the list overall.

[The Man]

Final Fantasy X is Objectively the Best Final FantasyThat's not how you spell Final Fantasy VI. [/thread]

[maybee]

The game is essentially a proto-FFXIII.

- Long walkways.


Yeah but at least FFX was a little more open up and it had a little more space and you could backtrack. FF XIII just gives you Grand Pulse and that's it. Tough Moogles if you don't like it.

Also the battle system is zillion times better and is more fun and you have the ability to control all characters.

[Skyblade]

The game is essentially a proto-FFXIII.Also, this.

Not exactly a good thing.


The sphere grid remains one of the most customizable ways to level up your characters. While saying "it's my favorite" isn't an objective statement, saying "it rivals the license board in terms of customization" is.

The license board sucked, and I found the Sphere grid far more interesting.

But I only find the sphere grid interesting for customizing and increasing stats, for abilities, I far prefer either VII's Materia system or the Job system in any of its incarnations.


Blitzball, once you were comfortable with it, was a hell of a fun minigame. Okay, sorry, fun isn't objective. Um... user-friendly? Addictive? I think I had one file with 60 hours of blitzball in it...

This is more a question of scope than quality, I think. I'm not denying that Blitzball is a fun game, I really like it (and, yeah, got tons of rewards with it). But it's more the depth of rewards and customization that keep me playing it than simply the gameplay. If any of the minigames in FFVII (say, snowboarding or sub attack) had that level of depth and customization, I'd probably have played them to death too. Heck, I did play the Fort Condor game at every availible opportunity, and would love to see that one fleshed out a bit more (and made repeatable indefinitely).

Also, I think the Techcopy system is extremely flawed and needs to be revamped.


Unique ultimate weapon "quests" for each character. (even if some were stupidly more rage-inducing than others)

Excellent idea, generally poor execution. While some were rage inducing, they were all missed potential. Yuna's was really the only one with any connection to her character. I'd have broken things down so that in addition to each random chest or minigame reward, they'd have a character-related sidequest. Flesh out the characters and world a bit more. It'd also let you flesh out the backstories some. Kind of like the Jecht Spheres.


Rikku. ;)

Auron.

[Pike]

Dude sphere grid is great and so is the voice acting, I have no idea what you guys are on about :confused:

[Jinx]

Dude sphere grid is great and so is the voice acting, I have no idea what you guys are on about :confused:

Yeah, I've never understood all of the voice acting hate. (Although there are definitely some iffy times, I'd never call it BAD. It just has off moments).

Also, I read someone say it here before, and I think it's pretty too: the Sphere Grid gives the illusion of customization, when really you're just following one path. I suppose that's true. I guess the customization factor comes in on choosing to send people down different paths than their default path.

[Formalhaut]

[QUOTE=Tifa's Boobs;3245218
Also, I read someone say it here before, and I think it's pretty too: the Sphere Grid gives the illusion of customization, when really you're just following one path. I suppose that's true. I guess the customization factor comes in on choosing to send people down different paths than their default path.[/QUOTE]

The "Standard" Sphere Grid is basically the Crystarium system in that's it's one path, with the odd branch here and there. However, the "Expert" Sphere Grid is a lot more loose and you can choose which characters learn what, to an extent.

[Shauna]

IIRC, the NA version of FFX did not have the Expert Sphere Grid.

[Pike]

I don't think it did and I'm so jealous of you guys who got that :(

[Jinx]

It did not.

[Karifean]

Well, you guys'll get it this year :D

I like the Sphere Grid regardless because I love activating a node and then actually noticing the difference in battle. I always get that Strength Sphere by winning the Luca Blitzball Tournament because of that - you can just SEE that it increases your damage by a lot.

[Pumpkin]

All of this Final Fantasy X talk is making me want to replay the game.

[Pike]

All of this Final Fantasy X talk is making me want to replay the game.

do it!

I am doing it and it's even better than I remember :jess:

[Pumpkin]

OR

I could replay X-2 :D?

:D?????

[Pike]

X first, then X-2!

[Pumpkin]

I wish they had a lot of the gameplay elements from X-2 with the story of X (with a bit more Kimahri). That would be an excellent game.

[Loony BoB]

On the one hand, Final Fantasy X has decent graphics, a beautiful world and a good battle system.

On the other hand, it has Tidus, Yuna and Seymour. It also had the voice acting of Tidus, Yuna and Seymour. That's not to mention Tidus, Yuna and Seymour. The only good thing about Tidus is that he thankfully isn't real. The only good thing about Yuna is that she isn't as bad as Tidus. The only good thing about Seymour is how his name reminds me of the way Seymour Skinners' mum says his name.

I mean... someone could create this beautiful matchstick house, the most beautiful matchstick house that was ever created, and then take a giant violent diarrhoea dump all over it. No matter how beautiful it was, it'll break down and smell like trout. This is how I view Final Fantasy X. I really, really, really wish there was an option to turn off those three characters so I could actually enjoy the game.

My objective viewpoint is superior to MILF's objective viewpoint because I've actually played all the Final Fantasy games. I know, I know, some people might say I'm biased and subjective and not objective in this post, but I objectively checked it over and decided objectively using my objective opinion that my objective viewpoint is spot on, objectively.

[Madame Adequate]

On the one hand, Final Fantasy X has decent graphics, a beautiful world and a good battle system.

On the other hand, it has Tidus, Yuna and Seymour. It also had the voice acting of Tidus, Yuna and Seymour. That's not to mention Tidus, Yuna and Seymour. The only good thing about Tidus is that he thankfully isn't real. The only good thing about Yuna is that she isn't as bad as Tidus. The only good thing about Seymour is how his name reminds me of the way Seymour Skinners' mum says his name.

Disliking Tidus or Yuna just shows that you're not paying attention and we're back to Pike's "OMG LAUGH SCENE MY LIFE IS RUINED FOREVER!" point. Seymour's less well executed but nonetheless beats any other FF villain since Sephiroth.


I mean... someone could create this beautiful matchstick house, the most beautiful matchstick house that was ever created, and then take a giant violent diarrhoea dump all over it. No matter how beautiful it was, it'll break down and smell like trout. This is how I view Final Fantasy X.

That's a strikingly good description of FFIX.


My objective viewpoint is superior to MILF's objective viewpoint because I've actually played all the Final Fantasy games. I know, I know, some people might say I'm biased and subjective and not objective in this post, but I objectively checked it over and decided objectively using my objective opinion that my objective viewpoint is spot on, objectively.

I'm pretty sure nobody is going to argue that II or XIV are the Best Final Fantasy and given that those are the only two I've not played... :greenie: Edit: And trying to mock me for demanding proof doesn't actually prove me wrong (Because I can't be proven wrong, because I am not wrong.)

[Formalhaut]

Seymour's less well executed but nonetheless beats any other FF villain since Sephiroth.

This will be slightly left-field, but what about Caius from FFXIII-2? He was really developed well, had a motive that isn't "OMG DESTROY THE WORLD LOL" and, let's face it, is damn good at his job! I really liked Caius as a character, and I think he was a better villain than Seymour was.

[Loony BoB]

I'm my own MILF is objectively wrong. ^_^

[Jinx]

I thought Hedy Burress did a wonderful job. Why does everyone say her voice acting was so bad? I legitimately don't understand.

[Pike]

I honestly don't understand the voice acting thing either.

Is it cheesy on occasion? Sure. But newsflash guys, the entire FF series is pretty cheesy. That's one of the reasons why it's so fun.

[The Man]

Yuna's voice acting wasn't bad or anything (she came off as really meek, but that was almost certainly deilberate), but Tidus was irritating throughout almost the entire game. I don't get the impression that he was supposed to be, either. However, I'm not sure it's necessarily James Arnold Taylor's fault, either, since I've heard his work in other cases where he wasn't annoying at all. I get the impression he was given directions that weren't intended to make him annoying, but nonetheless managed to make him annoying.

[Jinx]

JAT has a really lovely voice. I think people don't like him, because they just don't like Tidus.

[The Man]

It might have just been Tidus' character that made his voice acting annoying in that game, yeah. Like I said, I don't think his annoyingness was Taylor's fault.

[Nebulance]

Concerning Tidus' apparent 'annoying, whiny' persona: if you were cast off into a world you didn't know or understand, I would imagine you would whine too -- I certainly would. Your world, as you know it, is gone. That's a really startling issue to deal with. I thought his character got this point across nicely. Concerning the laughing scene, it's certainly awkward… but I think it does a decent job conveying how Yuna and Tidus are developing a bond at that point in the story.

As for the comparison to FFXIII, unlike X, I didn't believe the acting in XIII -- the emotion felt phoned in on most occasions (except for Vanille and Fang), or it was way too over the top (see the fireworks scene with Snow and Serah (spelling?) ). I found X's acting and emotional content truly genuine, and remains my favorite of the FF's I've played

[Sephiroth]

Seymour's less well executed but nonetheless beats any other FF villain since Sephiroth.

This will be slightly left-field, but what about Caius from FFXIII-2? He was really developed well, had a motive that isn't "OMG DESTROY THE WORLD LOL" and, let's face it, is damn good at his job! I really liked Caius as a character, and I think he was a better villain than Seymour was.

Sephiroth, Kuja, Seymour and Caius are all very well written main villains because they have all very human aspects like revenge, loneliness, despair, the fear of loss, et cetera.

[Pike]

Concerning Tidus' apparent 'annoying, whiny' persona: if you were cast off into a world you didn't know or understand, I would imagine you would whine too -- I certainly would. Your world, as you know it, is gone. That's a really startling issue to deal with.

This x 1000.

[The Man]

It's not just that Tidus is lost and confused. That's understandable to a certain degree. What isn't understandable is some of his other issues. I get the guy had father issues, but they're just taken to soap opera levels of ridiculousness in FFX. I also get that he's supposed to be the audience surrogate and intended to ask questions about how Spira works so the audience isn't confused, but some of the stuff he's confused about is just ridiculously obvious regardless.

[Madame Adequate]

I have honestly never even begun to understand why Tidus is said to be "whiny". After the intro section in Zanarkand he complains, like, twice about Jecht, and one of those is when he learns Jecht is Sin. The rest of the time he's either introspective or deals with it in about one line.

[Pike]

Yeah, I'm with MILF.

I'm playing through the game right now and he isn't coming off to me as whiny in the least.

:gator:

[Jinx]

Yeah, he talks about the things his father did, but it's not really whining. In fact, I'd say if anything, the way he deals with it is both mature and confronting his issues. That's why when you fight Jecht, he's still angry with his father, but he's also sad that he's going and loves him.

Also, Tidus IS pretty stupid it at times

"Macarena Temple."
"Aye!"

[The Man]

Certainly the way he resolves his father issues is pretty damn mature, but that's at the end of the game. The stuff before that isn't exactly so pleasant.

[Jinx]

Certainly the way he resolves his father issues is pretty damn mature, but that's at the end of the game. The stuff before that isn't exactly so pleasant.

It's a process.

Most people aren't able to just forgive someone in 30 seconds, without spending time working through their issues. And it's really not that bad. Like MILF said--it's more introspective than whiny.

[The Man]

Perhaps, but the large amount of narration means we get an awful lot of "introspection". It still came off as unnecessarily dramatic to me. I've seen plenty of shows, films, and books where characters had similar issues with their parents where they didn't come off as so histrionic about them. Maybe that just speaks to a preference in my mind for stoic characters, but Tidus got on my nerves at times.

[Formalhaut]

What would have been nice maybe is if we saw other people's perspectives on the whole Daddy issue. All we got was Tidus and his monologues - I would have like to heard Yuna's personal thoughts on it, or maybe Rikku... Anyone!

[Jinx]

What would have been nice maybe is if we saw other people's perspectives on the whole Daddy issue. All we got was Tidus and his monologues - I would have like to heard Yuna's personal thoughts on it, or maybe Rikku... Anyone!

We already did.

Yuna tells Tidus that the Jecht she knew was kind, and that she knows Jecht loved him.

Auron says he was a drunk with issues, but he also knew Jecht loved him.

Wakka and Lulu basically say Tidus is an entitled bitching for hating his father, as they hardly knew their parents.

Rikku says that no dad could be worse than hers.

[DMKA]

The battle system is good, one of the best. The music is too. However, the plot is relatively unoriginal (special magic person guided to elemental shrines to pray and summon creatures with which she will giver her life to save the world with), the characters all fit Final Fantasy archetypes down to the number, the voice acting and direction is bad in most cases, hurting the drama despite some talented people behind it. This is not really as up for debate as people can claim.

The localization is meh and the writing/dialogue is painfully stilted, cardboard, and uninspired, with some of the most obvious, intelligence-insulting lack of subtlety that manages to flanderize, demean the intelligence, and belittle the seriousness and intelligence of its own character and plot, especially with such moments as Seymour's childishly over-the-top metaphorical villain speeches, Tidus' constant inability to express his angst and daddy issues without resorting to full-on whining, and Yuna's awkward, flat displays of passion with words of wisdom from a pre-teen girl's bible study. In short, show, don't tell. And yet this game insists on telling you the character's struggles multiple times at the expense of developing characters like Kimahri or Lulu or getting into the admittedly interesting lore.

The game is linear and manages to diminish the life of its world by making the game so closed-off, with the sheer natural beauty being reduced, with a few exceptions, walkways. Also, the themes are not presented in a manner that makes the game seem preachy, and while there are moments of pathos, they're undermined by countless moments of melodramatic and direct communication of the games' themes, which is the worst way to present a theme or message in a way that can correlate with daily life as the player is not required to connect the message to a real-world parallel.

In short, MILF, you once again make a sweeping statement about something you are incorrect about (and relative).

It's funny, because everything you list here as negatives, are in fact the reasons why it's one of the best games ever made.

[Pete for President]

Late to the party, but I indeed agree that FFX is objectively the best in the series.

The world feels alive and humane in dealing with Sin. It's themes are well executed and relate to similar situations in our own world; corrupt religions, indoctrination, racism, mankind and it's use of technology - all are well thought out and explored in the game.

I could talk hours about the fantastic character development, but most of it has already been covered in this thread.


But there is one thing why X truly stands out above the rest: not a single aspect of the adventure feels like filler. It's a tight package; everything - from props to dialogue - is placed with care and really matters to the player and to the world. And that's something I really can't say about other fan favorites like VII, IX, XII. As for IV, I see why it is great, but there are also many game-design flaws that make it inferior to X.

[Loony BoB]

To those that point out "but you would whine too if you were in that situation" - if I wanted realism, I would not expect pretty much anything Tidus does to happen. I wouldn't expect him to suddenly be able to take on wave after wave of monsters. I would expect him to die.

Luckily, this stuff is called Final Fantasy for a reason, and my ideal Final Fantasy doesn't involve a whiny little bitch of a hotshot sports player. If I wanted to play that, I'd be looking forward to a Cristiano Ronaldo RPG. I'm surprised Tidus doesn't fall over, do a triple roll, get up, flap his hands and sit down on the ground every time he gets whacked by an enemy. It'd be more in line with his general attitude.

I'll say it again - the game itself, as in the plot and the gameplay, I enjoy. The characters just ruin it for me, and I know they ruin it for a lot of people.

Objectively. Of course. ;)

[Pike]

And I'm saying, I still never noticed any "whine" from Tidus.

Objectively.

[Loony BoB]

'Whine' isn't the first thing that comes to mind for me, to be fair.

'Annoying twat'. That's probably closer to the mark.

[Pike]

You guys are weird.

I'm playing through it now, I've been sitting here thinking "Now that I'm older and more experienced with writing maybe the characters will be more annoying" and I keep waiting for them to be annoying and it's not happening.

Well, Yuna is slightly annoying, but not enough to be game-ruining.

Tidus is great, though. He has whined like, twice so far and both times were completely understandable IMO.

[Loony BoB]

To be fair, I'm certain that the people who wrote out Tidus' character were experienced, too. Sometimes people just view characters differently - it can't be helped. A great example of this (for me) is Cloud - I don't know if you've seen the two different poses that Nomura drew him in, but they show a remarkably different personality. Then you have his Advent Children character, which is different again. His Crisis Core character, again, different. It annoys me to no end that they mess about with his character so much. Still, I've always seen him as I did the first time I saw him - a strong character in body and mind. Even when he was struggling with his inner demons, I saw his strengths shining through. I just can't do that with Tidus - my first impressions of Tidus were that of a bleach-blonde surfer moron who likes to complain and I guess the saying rings true that first impressions last. I liked to use him in battle, though, and he didn't annoy me 100% of the time. Just... most of the time that he talked or interacted with anyone. :p

[Pike]

To be fair, I'm certain that the people who wrote out Tidus' character were experienced, too.

Well, I didn't mean that so much as I figured I would be better equipped to view a character from a critical standpoint than I was ten years ago or whenever the hell I last played this game. xD But if anything I like the characters more now then I did back then.

On the subject of annoying characters: :zidane: anyone?

[Loony BoB]

Zidane is a bit of a dork, but I haven't actually been annoyed by him so far. Which is kind of surprising to be honest, because my younger self really didn't like the idea of a guy with a tail, probably because I'm not a big fan of monkeys and... yeah, I don't know. But overall I've found him to be pretty standard. Nothing special, but nothing terrible. Still, I'm not finished with the game yet, so...

[maybee]

On the subject of annoying characters: :zidane: anyone?

Zidane is not annoying.

42634

[Skyblade]

Zidane is a bit of a dork, but I haven't actually been annoyed by him so far. Which is kind of surprising to be honest, because my younger self really didn't like the idea of a guy with a tail, probably because I'm not a big fan of monkeys and... yeah, I don't know. But overall I've found him to be pretty standard. Nothing special, but nothing terrible. Still, I'm not finished with the game yet, so...

This is true. The character design may be annoying (although far less than Seymour's), but that alone is hardly what makes a character. Zidane never really annoyed me, I just wasn't a fan of his design. Or the graphics of the game (I really wish it had been on the PS2).

[Pike]

Well in fairness I haven't played FF IX in a really long time (I also never finished it because it never grabbed me personally), and I'm not going to sit here and argue that my opinions on a character in something I haven't played in a long time are correct, because that would be silly... :monster:

I am more than willing to give FF IX another shot and see if he is less annoying. I just recall him as being very annoying when I played the game.

[Madame Adequate]

On the subject of annoying characters: :zidane: anyone?

Zidane is not annoying.

42634

He is the most annoying character in the entire series, and that includes getting back-attacked by a Malboro who opens with Bad Breath and you don't have a Ribbon.

[maybee]

He is the most annoying character in the entire series, and that includes getting back-attacked by a Malboro who opens with Bad Breath and you don't have a Ribbon.

This has got to be a Troll post. There's no way that Zidane is annoying. Zidane is a well-developed character who transforms into a unselfish warrior and leader of the group and is always helping others in need.

Stop smoking crack.

[Loony BoB]

This entire thread is tongue in cheek. Nobody would really go around saying FFX is objectively the best Final Fantasy. :)

[NeoCracker]

I'm kind of confused here guys. Not yet have you talked about me. It is, after all, my thread.

[DMKA]

Tidus is whiny to an extent; there's no denying that. But think about his position, what's happened to him, where he's ended up? I'd probably be pretty whiny too.

Cloud and Squall are pretty whiny on and off, even though no one wants to admit it. The difference being that they didn't have voices, which is probably why everyone overlooks it unlike with Tidus.

[Madame Adequate]

Cloud isn't remotely whiny, what are you talking about. :confused:

[Raistlin]

Tidus isn't always whiny (though he certainly is whenever Jecht pops into his head). He's just annoying and stupid. Almost as stupid as Wakka.

The battle system was decent, though the rock-paper-scissors aspect became mildly tedious on occasion. The sphere grid system was ok. Overall the game had the mechanics to be a good game.

And then it came to the writing. Between his Hope-esque whines about how horrible his father was and his general goofiness, I tended to dislike any cutscene with Tidus involved. I have to agree with Daniel that the best part of Tidus was that he wasn't real (despite that plot point being painful to think about). Yuna was the standard perfect love interest and thoroughly boring for most of the game. Lulu and Rikku were actually interesting, but ruined by blatant fan service.

Additionally, there are two ways to do JRPGs without a traditional worldmap: the FFX/XIII way, and the FFXII way. In FFX, the world -- which otherwise seems richly developed -- feels stunted and small. You get a feel for bits and pieces of it, but nothing to allow you to appreciate its scope. In FFXII, on the other hand -- and regardless of how you feel about the rest of the game -- the world feels massive, and you really experience a full trek across the world.

FFX's plot, overall, was actually pretty good. Though it still doesn't hold a candle to the more well-developed tales of FFVI and FFT.

[Aulayna]

You know what...

You're all whiny bitches/twats/etc.

:colbert:

Yes BoB, I just called you Tidus!

[Loony BoB]

Aulayna, this is an official in-thread warning. Do not flame or insult other members of the forums. This includes calling them bitches, twats or Tiduses.

But seriously: Who's whining? I'm talking about Tidus in the same way Jecht would. Not whining, just saying what I think. The people who seem to be whining around here are the ones who disagree with us. "But he doesn't whine! He doesn't! It's not true! Waaaaaaaahhhhhhh!!!"

;)

[Aulayna]

In all fairness though I really don't remember Tidus whining that much. All I remember is the story of a kid being angry that has father wasn't there and that he constantly felt like he was living in his father's shadow and had an unsurmountable expectation to live up too. Then as the game went on and he learned the truth and came to realise that there was a world beyond that turmoil and that everything happened for a reason. I thought it was an interesting cultural reflection on the Eastern pressures of Male members of a family being expected to carry on the family legacy (particularly in Japan). It was a coming of age story of sorts.

Then again it has been 10 years since I played it so my memory is a bit rusty!

Though BoB, you are SUCH a Ti... User has been banned for this post

[Pike]

But seriously: Who's whining? I'm talking about Tidus in the same way Jecht would. Not whining, just saying what I think. The people who seem to be whining around here are the ones who disagree with us. "But he doesn't whine! He doesn't! It's not true! Waaaaaaaahhhhhhh!!!"

There is about as much whining in this thread as Tidus actually does, aka very little :monster:

[Loony BoB]

I can see how you might think that subjectively based on your own opinion, but objectively, Tidus is an annoying wusspuss whining bitching moron.

Remember, I'm talking objectively. *firm nod*

[Pike]

We've reached a point where I'm just confused. xD

Oh well. FFX is the best FF imo, but it's still not as good as Morrowind or Deus Ex, so it's all a moot point.

[Pete for President]

Additionally, there are two ways to do JRPGs without a traditional worldmap: the FFX/XIII way, and the FFXII way. In FFX, the world -- which otherwise seems richly developed -- feels stunted and small. You get a feel for bits and pieces of it, but nothing to allow you to appreciate its scope. In FFXII, on the other hand -- and regardless of how you feel about the rest of the game -- the world feels massive, and you really experience a full trek across the world.


Except that half of XII feels like filler. A lot of areas feel empty and dull. Whereas in Spira I never had that feeling. I'd take confined but sweet over large and bloated any day.

[Pike]

I enjoyed the world of XII but the characters and story both failed to interest me at all.

[NeoCracker]

It's been a while, so just in case any of you have forgotten since the last time I said it, this is my thread. Just a friendly reminder. :monster:

[Madame Adequate]

Additionally, there are two ways to do JRPGs without a traditional worldmap: the FFX/XIII way, and the FFXII way. In FFX, the world -- which otherwise seems richly developed -- feels stunted and small. You get a feel for bits and pieces of it, but nothing to allow you to appreciate its scope. In FFXII, on the other hand -- and regardless of how you feel about the rest of the game -- the world feels massive, and you really experience a full trek across the world.

And yet FFX feels like you're on an epic, life-changing, world-changing quest and FFXII feels like a boring-ass trek across nothing of any note :p

[Pike]

It's been a while, so just in case any of you have forgotten since the last time I said it, this is my thread. Just a friendly reminder. :monster:

I don't get it.

[Loony BoB]

Additionally, there are two ways to do JRPGs without a traditional worldmap: the FFX/XIII way, and the FFXII way. In FFX, the world -- which otherwise seems richly developed -- feels stunted and small. You get a feel for bits and pieces of it, but nothing to allow you to appreciate its scope. In FFXII, on the other hand -- and regardless of how you feel about the rest of the game -- the world feels massive, and you really experience a full trek across the world.

And yet FFX feels like you're on an epic, life-changing, world-changing quest and FFXII feels like a boring-ass trek across nothing of any note :p
Objectively I think that both of these 'worlds' feel like regions rather than worlds.

[Pheesh]

Would someone object if I objectively tied BoB to an object and left him there with nothing but his objectivity?

[Pike]

Would someone object if I objectively tied BoB to an object and left him there with nothing but his objectivity?

you have my sword

[NeoCracker]

It's been a while, so just in case any of you have forgotten since the last time I said it, this is my thread. Just a friendly reminder. :monster:

I don't get it.

I can say it a few more times if it helps!

[Shauna]

Neo obviously loves FFX. He's just too shy to admit it.

[Madame Adequate]

Additionally, there are two ways to do JRPGs without a traditional worldmap: the FFX/XIII way, and the FFXII way. In FFX, the world -- which otherwise seems richly developed -- feels stunted and small. You get a feel for bits and pieces of it, but nothing to allow you to appreciate its scope. In FFXII, on the other hand -- and regardless of how you feel about the rest of the game -- the world feels massive, and you really experience a full trek across the world.

And yet FFX feels like you're on an epic, life-changing, world-changing quest and FFXII feels like a boring-ass trek across nothing of any note :p
Objectively I think that both of these 'worlds' feel like regions rather than worlds.

I know you're trying to make fun of me saying "Objectively" but that only works if you're actually proving me wrong, not just saying "Objectively" like you're PG :greenie:

[Loony BoB]

Additionally, there are two ways to do JRPGs without a traditional worldmap: the FFX/XIII way, and the FFXII way. In FFX, the world -- which otherwise seems richly developed -- feels stunted and small. You get a feel for bits and pieces of it, but nothing to allow you to appreciate its scope. In FFXII, on the other hand -- and regardless of how you feel about the rest of the game -- the world feels massive, and you really experience a full trek across the world.

And yet FFX feels like you're on an epic, life-changing, world-changing quest and FFXII feels like a boring-ass trek across nothing of any note :p
Objectively I think that both of these 'worlds' feel like regions rather than worlds.

I know you're trying to make fun of me saying "Objectively" but that only works if you're actually proving me wrong, not just saying "Objectively" like you're PG :greenie:
Objectively, saying 'objectively' is all I need to do to prove you wrong, objectively.

Your original post is on par with me saying that objectively FFVII is the best FF, green is the best colour, I am the most awesome person in the world and my trout smells better than yours. There's nothing objective about it because it all comes down to personal preference. Your statement was not objective, it was entirely subjective (based on opinion).

Alternative answer: FFVII is objectively the best FF out there, and this is proof that FFX is not objectively the best FF out there, because FFVII is objectively best (and therefore objectively better than FFX).

[Madame Adequate]

Bunch of mad there bro, and yet no proof contradicting the objective fact that FFX is the best FF!

[Pheesh]

My new least favourite thing about FFX is this thread.

[Pike]

My new least favourite thing about FFX is this thread.

I made a much better FFX thread bro, come to this one http://home.eyesonff.com/final-fantasy-x/149709-haters-stand-over-there-debates-go-away-final-fantasy-x-love-thread.html

[Loony BoB]

Psh, mad. xD You know I respond to all troll posts the same way.

I'll point it out again - the proof is in the pudding, it's not possible to declare an objectively best FF game because it's not something you can judge on an objective level. Really, the burden of proof lies with you as you are the one making the sweeping (false) statement.

Anyway, back to Tidus! Did you know he won Most Annoying Character in the FF Ciddies? That's the largest number of people I've seen vote in a poll about annoying FF characters ever, and they definitely opted for Tidus. Who wants to role play as the most annoying character in the FF series? Not me!

PS. FFVII won 12 awards to FFX's three.

[Pumpkin]

It is hard to prove you wrong since its your opinion. I mostly rate games based on the following. Let's say the score is out of 10 for each:

Gameplay (battles/abilities you can learn/number of areas/how linear it is/length)
7.5
Customization (which is very important to me, how much do I feel I can customize my characters, is it a matter of character A learns following abilities, or do I have a lot of choice in the matter. Can I easily customize or does it take harder to get items/does it take more time)
5
Characters (self-explanatory)
6
World/Environment (Do I like the areas? Are the towns pretty/engaging/interesting?)
8
Story (How much does the story interest me. Am I eager to keep playing because I want to see what happens next? If they took the story and made it a book, took out all the gameplay elements, would I read it?)
7

That gives a total score of
33.5/50. Not a bad game

Now to compare, here would be my rating of Final Fantasy IX:
Gameplay: 8
Customization: 4
Characters: 9.5
World/Environment: 9.5
Story: 9.9
Total: 40.9

To me, if I were to rate all of the Final Fantasy games I've played, FFIX would be the best one. But everyone's tastes are different and they wouldn't give the same scores as I would because it is opinion. I just proved that to me, FFX is not the best Final Fantasy because based on the system I have to rate the games based on my preferences, IX is better.

[chionos]

It is hard to prove you wrong since its your opinion. I mostly rate games based on the following. Let's say the score is out of 10 for each:

Gameplay (battles, abilities you can learn/number of areas/how linear it is/length)
7.5
Customization (which is very important to me, how much how much do I feel I can customize my characters, is it a matter of character A learns following abilities, or do I have a lot of choice in the matter. Can I easily customize or does it take harder to get items/more time)
5
Characters (self-explanatory)
6
World/Environment (Do I like the areas. Are the towns pretty/engaging/interesting?)
8
Story (How much does the story interest me. Am I eager to keep playing because I want to see what happens next? If they took the story and made it a book, took out all the gameplay elements, would I read it?)
7

That gives a total score of
33.5/50. Not a bad game

Now to compare, here would be my rating of Final Fantasy IX:
Gameplay: 8
Customization: 4
Characters: 9.5
World/Environment: 9.5
Story: 9.9
Total: 40.9

To me, if I were to rate all of the Final Fantasy games I've played, FFIX would be the best one. But everyone's tastes are different and they wouldn't give the same scores as I would because it is opinion. I just proved that to me, FFX is not the best Final Fantasy because based on the system I have to rate the games based on my preferences, IX is better.

That's not how you shove proof down MILF's throat.

Try a little rudeness next time, sheesh.

[Pike]

You guys have ten seconds to convince me why I shouldn't just close this thread for being all around terrible and also a pissing contest :colbert: This is the worst thread since "Is soup is a drink" :doublecolbert:

[chionos]

You guys have ten seconds to convince me why I shouldn't just close this thread for being all around terrible and also a pissing contest :colbert: This is the worst thread since "Is soup is a drink" :doublecolbert:

I call your bluff and raise you a Soup is a Best Objectively Drink

[The Man]

Come now, nothing on the board since the soup thread has been in the same league of awfulness except further comments from BoB along the same lines and his comments about Suikoden.

So what I'm saying is, banning BoB would go a long part of the way towards ensuring nothing of the sort ever happens again.

[Elpizo]

Meh, you're all wrong anyway. It's clear to anyone who's ever played a video game that III is the best in the series. All those who say weird stuff like "X is objectively the best" or "VI is better" don't mean it. You may think you believe that, but the truth is that in reality you're all in agreement that III is the best. You just don't know it yet.

[Pumpkin]

That's not how you shove proof down MILF's throat.

Try a little rudeness next time, sheesh.

My bad.


You guys have ten seconds to convince me why I shouldn't just close this thread for being all around terrible and also a pissing contest :colbert: This is the worst thread since "Is soup is a drink" :doublecolbert:

What did I do ;__;

[Pike]

You guys have ten seconds to convince me why I shouldn't just close this thread for being all around terrible and also a pissing contest :colbert: This is the worst thread since "Is soup is a drink" :doublecolbert:

What did I do ;__;

You did nothing since you're basically the only one in this thread who is actually trying to make a point rather than saying "I'm right and everyone else is wrong I AM SO HIP AND EDGY ON THE INTERNET!"

(speaking of which, no one is more hip and edgy on the internet than I am)

[Elpizo]

You did nothing since you're basically the only one in this thread who is actually trying to make a point rather than saying "I'm right and everyone else is wrong I AM SO HIP AND EDGY ON THE INTERNET!"

(speaking of which, no one is more hip and edgy on the internet than I am)

Being hip and edgy doesn't make you right (or wrong), though. So you can be hip and edgy, I'll just be right in the meantime. :D

[Pike]

I started playing FF3 once. I got a few hours into it and then decided to go play Victoria II instead. I am unable to make a judgement call on it.

[chionos]

Elp's right, he just doesn't know it.

42646

[Elpizo]

Elp's right, he just doesn't know it.

42646
Psh, that one doesn't even deserve to share the same name with the glory that is the REAL FF III. :colbert:

[Loony BoB]

You guys have ten seconds to convince me why I shouldn't just close this thread for being all around terrible and also a pissing contest :colbert: This is the worst thread since "Is soup is a drink" :doublecolbert:
Obvious troll posts lead to obvious troll responses. MILF knew what he was doing and so did you. :p

[Fynn]

Whatever you say, it's still a rip-off of Grandia II :P

[Pike]

You guys have ten seconds to convince me why I shouldn't just close this thread for being all around terrible and also a pissing contest :colbert: This is the worst thread since "Is soup is a drink" :doublecolbert:
Obvious troll posts lead to obvious troll responses. MILF knew what he was doing and so did you. :p

Why am I getting dragged into this now :mymelbert: :zombert:

[Loony BoB]

Awkward sentence is awkward, so here's a new one.

Obvious troll posts lead to obvious troll responses. MILF knew what he was doing and you knew what MILF was doing.

[Quindiana Jones]

I'm not saying everyone else is wrong, just MILF. His poor taste in games is well documented. If someone with good taste in games said that X was the best, I'd disregard it as their opinion, but be fine with them keeping it.

MILF, however, is simply incorrect in his opinions of things. :colbert: