Wakka is the best character, discuss

[Pike]

He has the best hair and kills people by throwing blitzballs at their head.

Confirmed for best character. :cool:

[Madame Adequate]

But there's nothing to discuss. It's just the truth.

[Shauna]

But he uses a blitzball as a weapon!

That's almost as ridiculous as a doll, or a flute, or a megaphone, or a fork, or

[Pike]

WAKKA APPRECIATION THREAD then!

--

okay guys I went google image searching for a good pic of Wakka and instead I found this post (http://home.eyesonff.com/final-fantasy-x/119556-wakka-lulu.html#post2550297) and I'm going to lose it

[Rantz]

He was named by Pac-Man; there's no way he's not the best.

[Jinx]

As an author, I'm kind of surprised you think he's such a good character.

[Jowy]

John DiMaggio does his voice so that's awesome by default and by the end he becomes tolerant to other cultures! Yay for progress! I still don't use him unless I have to though.

[Karifean]

Find me someone else who actually manages to KILL people with a blitzball.

[Pike]

As an author, I'm kind of surprised you think he's such a good character.

I'm having trouble seeing how he's not.

He's "tropey", in a good way, and good tropes make good characters.

[Madame Adequate]

Author in identifying good character and characterization shocker!

[Jinx]

He's a very poorly written, over-the-top character. There's no subtlety in his personality, nor in his development.

[Pike]

did we play the same game? xD I don't see any of what you mentioned in his character. I'm replaying the game right now and even years later I don't see any of that.

Edit: also, nothing wrong with a lack of subtlety in a character

[Madame Adequate]

His immediate presentation is bombastic and forward, sure, but his character actually has many layers and his development is some of the best I've seen in games, because (despite Laddy's protestations otherwise) you are shown, not told, how and why it takes place. Yes, Seymour's statements at Mushroom Rock Road are blatant (though he could hardly say beforehand "Oh yeah this isn't going to work we're just doing it to screw over the Al Bhed") but if you pay attention to what he does, what he says, and how he acts, Wakka's development is superbly handled.

[DMKA]

Yes, Wakka is in fact the best character, and he has the best development. He's also the sexiest. :D

[maybee]

Yuck.

Wakka is one of my least favourite characters in Final Fantasy ever. Cait Sith at least has that cuteness of being a robotic Cat- Toy.

Wakka is just a racist.


He's a very poorly written, over-the-top character. There's no subtlety in his personality, nor in his development.

42629

[Pumpkin]

These are lies. LIIIIEEEEEEEEEEESSS!!!!!!!!!

[Pike]

You guys are really seeing a different character than I am xD It's as if I made a thread called "Let's talk about how great Tyrion Lannister is" and everyone immediately started talking about Joffrey instead. xD

Also: "HE'S RACIST" is not a good argument for undermining a character. In fact, if you hate a character so much because of his views, then said character, by being able to elicit such an emotional response from you, is a resounding success as a character. If he was a bad character then you wouldn't be bothered by his views.

[maybee]

Also: "HE'S RACIST" is not a good argument for undermining a character. In fact, if you hate a character so much because of his views, then said character, by being able to elicit such an emotional response from you, is a resounding success as a character. If he was a bad character then you wouldn't be bothered by his views.


Uhh yeah it is.

Being racist is not a good character personality trait. There's views and then there is being a downright assface towards people of a different race. No it's called being annoyed at somebody who's being a total and complete douchebag.

No. If he was a good character he would be complexed, relatable, balanced and iconic. Wakka is none of those.

Somebody like Terra, Cloud, Yuna, Ashe, Balthier, Cecil, Kain is that. Wakka does not belong in the same awesome FF character group as those characters. He does not. :colbert:

[Slothy]

Wakka is a pretty meh character, but at least he's more likeable than that steaming pile of shit we know as curling.

[Pike]

Also: "HE'S RACIST" is not a good argument for undermining a character. In fact, if you hate a character so much because of his views, then said character, by being able to elicit such an emotional response from you, is a resounding success as a character. If he was a bad character then you wouldn't be bothered by his views.


Uhh yeah it is.

Being racist is not a good character personality trait. There's views and then there is being a downright assface towards people of a different race. No it's called being annoyed at somebody who's being a total and complete douchebag.

No. If he was a good character he would be complexed, relatable, balanced and iconic. Wakka is none of those.

Somebody like Terra, Cloud, Yuna, Ashe, Balthier, Cecil, Kain is that. Wakka does not belong in the same awesome FF character group as those characters. He does not. :colbert:

Yeah he does learn his ways, but then he spends the rest of the game whining about it. " Oh no Seymour Senpai no don't tell me that you evil " ! " Nooo " !

" Not Seymoor Senpai whine/ whine/ moan/ complain "

Please. :greenie:

Um. You're missing the point. You don't have to agree with a character's views for the character to be good from a writing and technical standpoint. Plenty of villains are fantastically well-done characters. Stories would be incredibly boring if they weren't. This is how characters work. They are supposed to elicit an emotional response from people.

The fact that he really gets to you this much is more just proof that he was a really well done character.

Edit: Saying that a character has to be "relatable" in order to be a good character is completely false. If every good character in the world was "relatable" than every story in the world would be remarkably boring and homogenous.

[maybee]

Um. You're missing the point. You don't have to agree with a character's views for the character to be good from a writing and technical standpoint. Plenty of villains are fantastically well-done characters. Stories would be incredibly boring if they weren't. This is how characters work. They are supposed to illicit an emotional response from people.

The fact that he really gets to you this much is more just proof that he was a really well done character.

Yes but those are Villains. They are supposed to be sinister and negative, it's apart of what makes being a Villains work.

Kefka is a excellent character despite being callous, cold-hearted, sick, and a complete psycho. Though he is a Villain. Wakka is not a villain so having a huge negative flaw such as being racist, makes him heavily flawed.

Yes characters can't be perfect otherwise they'll be a damn Mary/ Gary Stu but something like racism goes too damn far and it's one of the main reasons why he's hugely unlikeable in my personal opinion.

Not to mention he has no character apart from - first part of the game being massively racist and then second part complaining that the big- up's in Yevon won't listen to him because they're tainted betrayers.

I can understand at him being upset, outraged and emotional by and during the first Seymour battle, but by Yunalesca smurf is it annoying.

Again no. Wakka is a awful character.




Edit: Saying that a character has to be "relatable" in order to be a good character is completely false. If every good character in the world was "relatable" than every story in the world would be remarkably boring and homogenous.


Being relatable helps make the character likeable.

[Pike]

Characters aren't always cleanly cut into heroes and villains. They shouldn't be, and the best characters aren't. The best characters have both a positive side and a negative side. The best characters can be, in turn, sinister or heroic. This is human nature. This is what makes a good character. Someone with a surprising side to them. Someone with a flaw, or, preferably, several flaws, who can go through a character arc.

I don't agree with saying "this character flaw is going too far!" There's no such thing. If it happens in real life (it does) then it can happen in a character. If you don't like it personally, that's fine. But in writing, this is the textbook definition of good character design.

Avoiding the darker aspects of human nature makes for very poor characters and very poor stories.

[Madame Adequate]

maybee you seem to have missed that Wakka's entire character arc throughout the game is realizing he's a bigot and realizing that he is wrong, and working to overcome it. That's the literal definition of character development - a character has a flaw and eventually overcomes it.

[Pike]

In closing I leave you with this delightful message I found on Tumblr today:


Wakka gets a lot of crap for being a bigoted dingle douche, and while that may be true for the first part of the game, let us keep in mind that his attitude is the result of years of conditioning by Yevon. Yevon made a point to convince the people of Spira that the only way to get Sin to stop terrorizing their world for good— the only way for their loved ones to stop dying— was to atone for their regressions. Machina is one of those regressions, by Yevon decree, and the Al Bhed are machina-crazy, therefore, the logical conclusion there is that the Al Bhed are “supporting” Sin, in a roundabout way. Wakka wasn’t going out of his way to be hateful, he was simply guided by hope for a world without Sin, and fear that that world could never come about if people like Rikku were left unchecked.

Does that excuse his actions? Of course not: Lulu and Yuna are pious as well, and they are much more accepting than Wakka… but it just takes him awhile to come around! Slowly, as we see here, he starts to see the light, and by the end of X-2, he even gives his kid an Al Bhed name! So, let’s not judge him too harshly, ya?

^ this, my friends, is good characterization.

[Pete for President]

Um. You're missing the point. You don't have to agree with a character's views for the character to be good from a writing and technical standpoint. Plenty of villains are fantastically well-done characters. Stories would be incredibly boring if they weren't. This is how characters work. They are supposed to illicit an emotional response from people.

The fact that he really gets to you this much is more just proof that he was a really well done character.

Yes but those are Villains. They are supposed to be sinister and negative, it's apart of what makes being a Villains work.

Yes characters can't be perfect otherwise they'll be a damn Mary/ Gary Stu but something like racism goes too damn far and it's one of the main reasons why he's hugely unlikeable in my personal opinion.


Have fun with the characters of Teletubbies or My Little Pony or whatever story takes place in a world all fun and games. :grover:

Wakka being racist is no reason one wouldn't be able to relate to him. We're all racist in one way or another. And that's not because we particularly want to, but that is how society shapes us. Exactly what happened to Wakka. He's closer to all of us than you think, though he's be a bit more extreme. Which is pretty normal considering the world is full of death and misery.


In closing I leave you with this delightful message I found on Tumblr today:


Wakka gets a lot of crap for being a bigoted dingle douche, and while that may be true for the first part of the game, let us keep in mind that his attitude is the result of years of conditioning by Yevon. Yevon made a point to convince the people of Spira that the only way to get Sin to stop terrorizing their world for good— the only way for their loved ones to stop dying— was to atone for their regressions. Machina is one of those regressions, by Yevon decree, and the Al Bhed are machina-crazy, therefore, the logical conclusion there is that the Al Bhed are “supporting” Sin, in a roundabout way. Wakka wasn’t going out of his way to be hateful, he was simply guided by hope for a world without Sin, and fear that that world could never come about if people like Rikku were left unchecked.

^ this, my friends, is good characterization.

Agreed.

[maybee]

Characters aren't always cleanly cut into heroes and villains. They shouldn't be, and the best characters aren't. The best characters have both a positive side and a negative side. The best characters can be, in turn, sinister or heroic. This is human nature. This is what makes a good character. Someone with a surprising side to them. Someone with a flaw, or, preferably, several flaws, who can go through a character arc.

I already know this and basically already agreed with this. I already said and mentioned that no character can be perfect otherwise that would make him a total Mary/ Gary Stu.



I don't agree with saying "this character flaw is going too far!" There's no such thing.

So would you support a character if he or she raped another character ?
Would you support a character if he or she was a paedophile ?

I really disagree with you on this Pike. Really disagree.



But in writing, this is the textbook definition of good character design.


Yes but Wakka is not. Just because he's a Racist and then realize that he was wrong and then steps back doesn't mean that he's a well developed character or a a character with a deep persona. He just complains throughout the game and then steps back. That's it. That's like Cloud realizing that he was Zack and then just stepping back. No going crazy, no Lifestream scence with Tifa, no depression in ACC.

Wakka is a terrible character.


maybee you seem to have missed that Wakka's entire character arc throughout the game is realizing he's a bigot and realizing that
he is wrong, and working to overcome it. That's the literal definition of character development - a character has a flaw and eventually overcomes it.
You seem to have missed that Wakka hardly has a entire character arc. He just realizes that he was wrong, that's it. What- What ? Where is this " Working to Overcome it " come from ? No, he doesn't. He just complains to all the Yevon high-ups, that don't give two trouts about his moaning that they're frauds and that's it. He does nothing of the sort, there's no big " Wakka overcomes his flaws " Maybe a little in X-2, but in X not even.
In fact he never apologizes to Rikku or Yuna for being a douchebag towards their Race. He tries to act nicer to Rikku, but that's it. Wakka could walk away half- way through FF X and it wouldn't make a damn difference.

This is Wakka

Blitzball Player that looses and sucks being a Captain
Huge Racist Douchebag
Complains to everybody that Yevon are dicks.
Sees Tidus go off at the end, doesn't seem to care too much. Not even a huge or tearful farewell goodbye between them.

Compared to somebody like Vivi, Cloud or Ashe this is pathetic.

[maybee]

Wakka being racist is no reason one wouldn't be able to relate to him. We're all racist in one way or another.

You're kidding right ? We are not all racists. smurf.

42635

I've had enough. I'm so out of this thread. If you like Wakka fine, but imo these are retarded reasons for supporting his character.

Edit : New theory. Pike and MILF are the same persons, trying to spread around the love of Wakka around.

[Rantz]

42636

[Loony BoB]

Wakka's alright, and if anything I found him to be one of the better characters in the game. He's untold amounts better than my disliked trio of Seymour, Yuna and Tidus. I don't know who I liked most out of the other four playable characters, though... tough to call. Kimahri is cool because he's not a human, and I like non-human characters (although non-humanoid characters are even better). For looks, Rikku is cute and Lulu is a hottie. I like to be around positive people, which is something I'd generally apply to Wakka and Rikku. I like Lulu for her intelligence, I'd say she is probably the wisest of the bunch, if not the most intellectual (oddly that would probably go to Rikku, the more I think about it... her savvy with electronics and language work in her favour). Wakka perhaps has the best comedy value of the lot. Really too tough for me to pick a character, to be honest. D=

[Pete for President]

Wakka being racist is no reason one wouldn't be able to relate to him. We're all racist in one way or another.

You're kidding right ? We are not all racists. smurf.

42635

I've had enough. I'm so out of this thread. If you like Wakka fine, but imo these are retarded reasons for supporting his character.


Not kidding. And I would appreciate if you would try to understand just how far Spira's issues resemble that of Earth. We can't help that racism still exists; it's an issue of society that has yet to be solved. Racism happens in a lot of different degrees, but the most extreme degree is probably what you have in mind right now and Wakka is borderline in that area. Lesser degrees for example are the ginger kid not getting picked in gym class, not daring to look the homeless person in the eye, judging when someone works at McDonalds and I'm pretty sure everyone judges by the looks, probably even you. That is a form of racism most of us don't even realize. It's non-hostile, but it's there.

We can't help it; it's all in the way we are brought up. Another example; I live in a city of which 50% is not native Dutch and I have always been to schools where all cultures are accepted. Yet all my friends are Dutch. I don't think I'm racist, yet why don't I have multicultural social contacts? I don't know. Makes you wonder if racism is built in, right? Even on a non-hostile level.

On a sidenote, the Al Bhed aren't the only ones being looked down upon. Even the Crusaders get their fair share of being treated differently because of their views.

Edit: forgot to relate this post to Wakka; he is a perfect example of how even a die-hard racist can turn himself around when the truth is revealed and his initial source of being racist is proven wrong.

[Loony BoB]

Lesser degrees for example are the ginger kid not getting picked in gym class, not daring to look the homeless person in the eye, or judging when someone works at McDonalds and I'm pretty sure everyone judges by the looks, probably even you. But that is all in the way we are brought up.
None of these things are racist because none of them are to do with race (not liking ginger haired people shouldn't be confused with racism, although it's just as bad/ignorant).

Another example; I live in a city of which 50% is not native Dutch and I have always been to schools where all cultures are accepted. Yet all my friends are Dutch. I don't think I'm racist, yet why don't I have multicultural social contacts? I don't know. Makes you wonder if racism is built in, right?
I lived in a city which was massively multicultural, too. I had friends from all ends of the world, all showing off their ethnicity. We acknowledged each other's race, but we didn't discriminate each other based on race - or at least, I certainly didn't. Some races still tended to stick together when it came to more private situations (ie best friends), I noticed that. But sometimes that is down to culture, personality, which classroom you were in (our school created classes based on IQ test results, and certain racial stereotypes were not done any favours by this, sadly)... it's not always a race thing.

I think saying racism exists to small degrees in almost everyone (if not everyone) is still potentially accurate, but with some people it's to such a minimal degree that I don't think it's worth calling them racist, so much as pointing out that certain things they do could be racist. Saying we're all racist on some level is like saying we're all evil on some level, when really there are a lot of very good people out there who happen to have a couple of bad things that they might do or have done. It doesn't make them evil by definition.

[Pete for President]

Lesser degrees for example are the ginger kid not getting picked in gym class, not daring to look the homeless person in the eye, or judging when someone works at McDonalds and I'm pretty sure everyone judges by the looks, probably even you. But that is all in the way we are brought up.
None of these things are racist because none of them are to do with race (not liking ginger haired people shouldn't be confused with racism, although it's just as bad/ignorant).

I see your point. I'm not sure if the term exists (like I said, I'm no expert on the subject) but isn't there also something like social status racism or discrimination? If two religions of the same race judge each other as superior/inferior, can that be classified as racism? It's a grey area I guess, for where is the line between race? Is it purely in genes or do beliefs, traditions and values count too?



Another example; I live in a city of which 50% is not native Dutch and I have always been to schools where all cultures are accepted. Yet all my friends are Dutch. I don't think I'm racist, yet why don't I have multicultural social contacts? I don't know. Makes you wonder if racism is built in, right?
I lived in a city which was massively multicultural, too. I had friends from all ends of the world, all showing off their ethnicity. We acknowledged each other's race, but we didn't discriminate each other based on race - or at least, I certainly didn't. Some races still tended to stick together when it came to more private situations (ie best friends), I noticed that. But sometimes that is down to culture, personality, which classroom you were in (our school created classes based on IQ test results, and certain racial stereotypes were not done any favours by this, sadly)... it's not always a race thing.

I think saying racism exists to small degrees in almost everyone (if not everyone) is still potentially accurate, but with some people it's to such a minimal degree that I don't think it's worth calling them racist, so much as pointing out that certain things they do could be racist. Saying we're all racist on some level is like saying we're all evil on some level, when really there are a lot of very good people out there who happen to have a couple of bad things that they might do or have done. It doesn't make them evil by definition.

Agreed, it can be a cultural cling thing and the degrees are also not entirely comprehendible for us yet, as those small amounts are socially accepted and not considered racist in the 'hard' form. We'll just have to see if even those small amounts can disappear. Maybe when our kids or grandkids are have established utopia where they live in perfect harmony with everything and all, they might say; "Gramps, you'd rather visit the Dutch supermarket rather than the multicultural one that was actually closer and of equal quality? You racist.". Who knows :greenie:

[Shauna]

I don't agree with saying "this character flaw is going too far!" There's no such thing.

So would you support a character if he or she raped another character ?
Would you support a character if he or she was a paedophile ?

I really disagree with you on this Pike. Really disagree.

Boy, this escalated quickly. Nobody is saying we support a character if they do things like that, we're not thinking they are good guys for doing so.
I feel like you're getting morally good/bad characters, and characters that have good/bad characterisation confused. There's a big difference. That's why there are characters that are monstrous, that we can enjoy watching, yet never thinking "Wow, what they're doing is 100% correct!"

EDIT: Enjoy is possibly a bad word to describe how we feel when we watch a morally bad character. Someone help me here. :P

Anyway, regardless of that, my main point was that Wakka may be racist, and he works to overcome it, but that doesn't make him a character with bad characterisation. The opposite is true, I find, in this case.

[Loony BoB]

Lesser degrees for example are the ginger kid not getting picked in gym class, not daring to look the homeless person in the eye, or judging when someone works at McDonalds and I'm pretty sure everyone judges by the looks, probably even you. But that is all in the way we are brought up.
None of these things are racist because none of them are to do with race (not liking ginger haired people shouldn't be confused with racism, although it's just as bad/ignorant).

I see your point. I'm not sure if the term exists (like I said, I'm no expert on the subject) but isn't there also something like social status racism or discrimination? If two religions of the same race judge each other as superior/inferior, can that be classified as racism? It's a grey area I guess, for where is the line between race? Is it purely in genes or do beliefs, traditions and values count too?
Prejudice is the word you're looking for, and yes, everyone is most certainly prejudiced to some degree.

[Pike]

So would you support a character if he or she raped another character ?
Would you support a character if he or she was a paedophile ?

There is a huge difference between "personally supporting" a character and a character being interesting. Plenty of heavily flawed and amoral characters, villain or no, are interesting, good characters. As Shauna said.

Have you read Crime and Punishment by Fyodor Dostoyevsky? It's one of the pinnacles of Russian fiction. The main character, the hero of the story, named Rasknolnikov, murdered an old woman in cold blood. That doesn't stop him from being the main character and being someone we can relate to as he goes through his character arc (which is directly related to his murder.)


retarded

I'm kind of surprised that you are so against offensive racism and then turn around and use a term that is offensive to mentally disabled people :p

[Pumpkin]

To me Wakka is like a nice enough guy who you don't mind seeing at a dinner party here and there but you don't want to see him all of the time.

[maybee]

I think that most people here don't get the idea that I'm trying to get across here. Wakka is not a well developed character and his racism and let complaining to the Yevon Higher-Ups is annoying and is really unlikeable.

Most people here seem to think that Wakka recovered from flaws in a well-written manner but it wasn't. It was quick and short and un-detailed. If Wakka's changing from his negative flaws was well done like Kain Highwind's heel-face-turn or Zidane's transformation from Playboy horny teen to kind and caring hero to everybody then Wakka would be a good character, but it wasn't.

Take Vivi from Final Fantasy IX going to a awkward and shy little Black Mage to a badass that takes no trout from nobody, not even Kuja.



I'm kind of surprised that you are so against offensive racism and then turn around and use a term that is offensive to mentally disabled people


I can't say " That's so Gay " anymore either ? Even though I'm Bi.


Edit : Speaking of Kuja heres a good example of a good and well written character despite having huge flaws. He's the villain for most of the game and does some right terrible trout. But unlike Wakka, he's actually a good written character and a good character because he actually realizes that he did wrong and even says sorry towards Zidane and even wishes that he could of had a second chance at life. Kuja = Brilliant. Wakka = Fail

[Pike]

I can't say " That's so Gay " anymore either ? Even though I'm Bi.

I know a ton of LGBT community members and most of them are very against the term in that context. I don't use it out of respect for them.

But now I'm offtopic :monster:

[maybee]

I can't say " That's so Gay " anymore either ? Even though I'm Bi.

I know a ton of LGBT community members and most of them are very against the term in that context. I don't use it out of respect for them.

But now I'm offtopic :monster:


To be honest I hate that term as well and I apologize for the " retarded " comment if it's insulted anybody here.

Yes get back on topic so we can debate ! :nod:

[Madame Adequate]

Most people here seem to think that Wakka recovered from flaws in a well-written manner but it wasn't. It was quick and short and un-detailed. If Wakka's changing from his negative flaws was well done like Kain Highwind's heel-face-turn or Zidane's transformation from Playboy horny teen to kind and caring hero to everybody then Wakka would be a good character, but it wasn't.

But it wasn't sudden at all, it starts at Mushroom Rock Road and the arc isn't completed until at least after you fight Yunalesca. That's like 80% of the game.


Edit : Speaking of Kuja heres a good example of a good and well written character despite having huge flaws. He's the villain for most of the game and does some right terrible trout. But unlike Wakka, he's actually a good written character and a good character because he actually realizes that he did wrong and even says sorry towards Zidane and even wishes that he could of had a second chance at life. Kuja = Brilliant. Wakka = Fail


If you think Kuja is a good villain, a good character, or a good anything, you are actually a crazy person.

[Pumpkin]

I think the point of Wakka is something like this: (sorry for the long post)

Nice guy with character flaw (racist).
Racism is somewhat understandable since many people he loved have died because of Sin and he grew up being told that Sin would disappear if things like Machina would. Al Bhed use Machina, Wakka thinks that if they would just STOP then Sin would go away. He thinks the Al Bhed are being selfish and allowing more people to die indirectly. Ít's hard for him to look past this because like Lulu said at one point, its the world that they're in, it's what they know, they don't really think to ask questions.
Again, this doesn't excuse it because Lulu and Yuna are more accepting, but I think that's because they're more rational, logical people. Wakka is in a bad place because his parents were killed, his brother was killed, he just wants Sin gone. Yevon provided something for him to direct his anger towards (the Al Bhed) and he does just that. Most people in a situation like that will look for someone to blame. Even Lulu does it to an extent with Chappu's death. I think she can just handle her emotions better and probably already passed the phase Wakka is going through. People will look to cast blame in desperate situations. I have some theories as to why, but I can't say I know for sure. I do know that this is common and Wakka is pretty average in that he deals with his anger and grief in this way.

Basically he blames Sin for the death of his loved ones, and he blames the Al Bhed for Sin to a degree because that's what he know and that's what he was told. He might be the only main character that extreme about it, but you see NPCs who are very similar. To them Yevon's teachings are truth. It's just how it is.

Despite his conditioning, despite his loss, anger, grief, sadness. Despite his hatred for Sin, and everything in his life he has been taught, he is able to accept Rikku as a person. He is able to see she is a good person even if she is an Al Bhed. He shows some sympathy when Home is destroyed (even though he tries not to). After a while he accepts that the Al Bhed are people who want the same thing as him, Sin gone. They're just going about it a different way. When Yevon is shown for the hypocrites they are, you can tell it hurts him inside, but he deals with it. He admits when he's wrong and moves forward.

All this being said, he's kind of middle of the road for me. I don't dislike him because he's a racist, he's just honestly not my type of guy.

[maybee]

But it wasn't sudden at all, it starts at Mushroom Rock Road and the arc isn't completed until at least after you fight Yunalesca. That's like 80% of the game.

What ?

" Why are you such frauds Yevon " ?

" Why are you such frauds Yevon " ?

" Seymouuur, why are you a fraud " ?

" Yevon are such frauds, I don't believe why they could be such frauds " !

" I'll shut up now "

Woooooo. Great Character development there !

42639



If you think Kuja is a good villain, a good character, or a good anything, you are actually a crazy person.

Why ? Because he's actually a good and decent character and actually has GOOD character development and has a touching apology and death scene ? Yup, completely crazy. :greenie:

[TrollHunter]

The only thing i hate about wakka is his hair, and his voice actor.
Those 2 things make me want to beat a baby with a puppy.
Other than that... Hes alright.

[Matthewtheman]

Wakka's one of my favorite's from X, but I prefer Auron.

[Pike]

Yeah, Auron is a badass.

[Jinx]

I know it's a little late, and I know it's off topic: but no, you can't use the word retarded like that. I am really pretty offended by the word used in that context, as I work with people who are, in fact, retarded.

And maybee, you're wrong. I agree that Wakka isn't a well-written character, but Pike is right. You don't always LIKE the characters you're reading about, but that doesn't mean that they aren't good characters. If they're bringing out an emotional response in you because of how they are as a character, they author has done something right. Try reading Valley of the Dolls, Revolutionary Road, or Lolita. They're all books which deal with unlikeable people with severe issues, but have deep, interesting, and thought-provoking characters that make you uncomfortable and have to evaluate your thoughts about them, as well as the possible sympathies that spring up, especially when you know they're bad "people."

[Loony BoB]

"You're wrong" is a terrible argument to bring up when dealing with opinions. maybee's perfectly within her rights to say "I don't think he's a good character."

[Jinx]

"You're wrong" is a terrible argument to bring up when dealing with opinions. maybee's perfectly within her rights to say "I don't think he's a good character."

That wasn't what I said at all.

[Ouch!]

I was told to come over to the Wakka thread and re-iterate a point I made in the Game of Thrones thread about how introducing a character who exemplifies some negative quality (such as Wakka's religious zealotry) is not an endorsement of that attitude or a sign that it is a bad character...

But I really just wanted to chime in and express my thoughts that Wakka's development is ham-fisted, dull, and predictable. He is one of my least favorite characters in the game, because I feel he contributes very little to the game beyond comedic relief. I can at least give the writers credit for attempting to roll the obligatory comic relief character in with another trope, which, I guess, is more interesting than solely embodying just one or the other.

[Pike]

I'VE BEEN TRICKED :mad2:

[Aulayna]

Denied.

Rin is the best character in X.

I mean, he's EVERYWHERE - plus he's so classy.

[maybee]

"You're wrong" is a terrible argument to bring up when dealing with opinions. maybee's perfectly within her rights to say "I don't think he's a good character."

Thank You.

And everybody is in their right to think that Wakka is a good character and the best character of course. c:



That wasn't what I said at all.



And maybee, you're wrong.

*Coughs loudly *

[Shauna]

She was saying you were wrong in your stating that Wakka could not be a good character because he was racist. You may dislike him for being so, and that is perfectly acceptable, but that doesn't automatically make him a bad character. :p

We are disagreeing with your implication that no characters with negative characteristics can be good characters because of their flaws, which is really just... wrong. :p

[Loony BoB]

"You're wrong" is a terrible argument to bring up when dealing with opinions. maybee's perfectly within her rights to say "I don't think he's a good character."

That wasn't what I said at all.


She was saying you were wrong in your stating that Wakka could not be a good character because he was racist. You may dislike him for being so, and that is perfectly acceptable, but that doesn't automatically make him a bad character. :p

We are disagreeing with your implication that no characters with negative characteristics can be good characters because of their flaws, which is really just... wrong. :p
Apologies, I misinterpreted.

[Jinx]

"You're wrong" is a terrible argument to bring up when dealing with opinions. maybee's perfectly within her rights to say "I don't think he's a good character."

That wasn't what I said at all.


She was saying you were wrong in your stating that Wakka could not be a good character because he was racist. You may dislike him for being so, and that is perfectly acceptable, but that doesn't automatically make him a bad character. :p

We are disagreeing with your implication that no characters with negative characteristics can be good characters because of their flaws, which is really just... wrong. :p
Apologies, I misinterpreted.

No worries. :) And thanks, Shauna.

Maybee, generally when people give a reason AFTER they say you're wrong, they're not just flat out saying you're wrong.

[Quindiana Jones]

People taking offence at the word "retarded" annoys the piss out of me. By taking offence at a word that means someone is thick, you are connecting stupidity with mental disability. You're the asshole. :colbert:

I like Wakka's face.

[Jinx]

People taking offence at the word "retarded" annoys the piss out of me. By taking offence at a word that means someone is thick, you are connecting stupidity with mental disability. You're the asshole. :colbert:

I like Wakka's face.


No. Mental retardation is a medical diagnosis. Connecting the word stupid to "retard" is what's offensive. Your argument is backwards.

[Quindiana Jones]

The term was created because of the meaning of the word retard. It means slow, and it also means stupid. Then mental disabilities were discovered, and the connection was made due to doctors at the time kind of being assholes. Your understanding of language is backwards.

Since I am the curious sort, I decided to get my Googling hat on. Discovered the term "euphemism treadmill". It's basically the principle that any word used to describe certain scenarios - such as mental disabilities - will eventually become offensive (people are dicks) and will need to be changed. Mental retardation was already outdated by the time of its creation; it's offensively outdated now.

A bad person can be a good character. Were this not the case, there would be very few good characters in any medium. Wakka is an awesome character because he is a bad person.

[Laddy]

Dear God this thread has become a battleground. It's like a goddamn wasteland.

War. War never changes.

[TrollHunter]

Man, I never knew that wakkas hair could cause such controversy.
http://www.unikgamer.com/characters/face/wakka-305.jpg

[Madame Adequate]

It causes controversy in the same way "teach the controversy" handles the scientific controversy over evolution. i.e. there is none, Wakka's hair is as amazing as the rest of him, but ideologues and lunatics have insisted so loudly and consistently that there is that it seems like there is.

[Pike]

I'm never making a thread again, they always end up terrible. :zombert:

(Wakka is still great)

[Rantz]

The greatest!

[maybee]

It causes controversy in the same way "teach the controversy" handles the scientific controversy over evolution. i.e. there is none, Wakka's hair is as amazing as the rest of him, but ideologues and lunatics have insisted so loudly and consistently that there is that it seems like there is.

http://media.tumblr.com/20c67342b7a3d99ac09bb7e7160c9660/tumblr_inline_ml8lw9desD1qz4rgp.jpg

Walks away from Thread.

[Freya]

Wakka is my favorite!

[Caledfwlch]

Wrong. Auron is the best character.

/thread.

[Pike]

Auron is also an acceptable answer.

[maybee]

Wrong. Auron is the best character.

/thread.

Thankyou.

[Forsaken Lover]

well done like Kain Highwind's heel-face-turn


....? You mean when he was snapped out of being mind controlled by Golbez and then he had maybe one line about how bad he felt and then everyone forgave him? That "well done" heel face turn that lasted all of five seconds and not even a paragraph's worth of dialogue?

[Shiny]

He became better after he stopped being a giant racist.

[maybee]

....? You mean when he was snapped out of being mind controlled by Golbez and then he had maybe one line about how bad he felt and then everyone forgave him? That "well done" heel face turn that lasted all of five seconds and not even a paragraph's worth of dialogue?


Kain: My mind...is my own again. I cannot expect forgiveness
Edge: Forgiveness?! it's your fault the giant Rosa: Stop it!

Kain: Rosa...

Rosa: Golbez broke free as well. That's why you're free. None of this is your fault

---Flashback at Baron---

Voice: So you're Cecil!

Cecil: Who are you

Boy: I'm Kain - Kain Highwind.

Kain: My father is Sir Richard Highwind, the commander of the Dragoons

.Cecil: Pleased to meet you.

Kain: Don't think you can be friends with me, just because the king treats youlike you're special.

Cecil: What did you say?

Kain: Want a fight, do you? What's a soft, spoiled little boy like you going todo to me?

Cecil: I'm not spoiled!

Kain (grabbing Cecil's collar): Talk back to me, will you?

Voice: Stop it!

Kain: Rosa!

Rosa: "Men of Baron fight not without just cause." That's what His Majesty taught us, isn't it?

Kain: But, he's the one who-

Rosa: Dragoons don't make excuses!

Kain: Hmph! I know that!

Cecil: I started it

.Rosa: You're an honest one, aren't you?

Kain: See? It wasn't my fault!

Rosa: Hee hee...I guess it wasn't.

Rosa: A Lunarian named Zemus was making use of Golbez's as a means to control him.

Rydia: Golbez and Fusoya went to the moon to put an end to Zemus.

Cecil: ...

Kain: Golbez was Cecil's brother? Well in any case, it would seem I've a debt to repay Zemus, too

.Edge: Ha! And when he takes over your mind again - what then?

Kain: If that should happen, kill me without a second thought.

Edge: Heh! Then count me in, too. I've a couple blades with Zemus's name on them.

Kain: Edge...

Cecil: Let's go. To the moon. But Rosa and Rydia stay behind. This time, there may be no homecoming.

Rosa: Cecil!

Rydia: You can't mean it.

Cecil: Go. Get off the ship.Rosa: ..

Edge: This is work for grownups. You just wait for us back here.

Rydia: Fine!

Edge: Heh!

Kain: Cecil...

Cecil: Don't argue, Kain.

[Zeiferxx]

Yeah, Wakka is the best character after Tidus, Auron and Lulu.

[maybee]

Yeah, Wakka is the best character after Tidus, Auron and Lulu.

Nah it goes

Rikku
Auron
Lulu
Braska
Yuna
Jecht
Tidus
Kimahri
The kid that wants to be a Blitzball when he grows up
Seymour
The Blitzball players
The NPCs

All the trees and bushes
All the temples
All the flowers
All the Blitzballs
All the beaches
All the shoes
All the rocks
All the oceans

Then Wakka.

[Pumpkin]

I disagree with that list. It should clearly be:

The kid that wants to be a blitzball when he grows up




Kimahri


Belgemine
Yojimbo
Machaen


Auron
Yuna
Rikku
Lulu


Wakka

The Aurochs except those two who never gave me stuff. Seriously, what's their deal?



...I feel like I'm forgetting someone.

[maybee]

^ Teedus

[Zeiferxx]

Yeah, Wakka is the best character after Tidus, Auron and Lulu.


The kid that wants to be a Blitzball when he grows up




That's a good one.

[Pike]

Sorry but the kid who wants to be a Blitzball when he grows up is the best character in all of FF, ever

[Zeiferxx]

Sorry but the kid who wants to be a Blitzball when he grows up is the best character in all of FF, ever

Of course he is. Who could be better?

[Pike]

No one!

[Zeiferxx]

Only the moogles in FFX.

[maybee]

Sorry but the kid who wants to be a Blitzball when he grows up is the best character in all of FF, ever

Amen to this ! :jess:

[Pete for President]

Hah! Never noticed this before, but when you fight a sandworm in Bikanel Desert Wakka comments; "Meh, where's the early bird when you need him?".

I love those little comments.

[Jinx]

Sorry but the kid who wants to be a Blitzball when he grows up is the best character in all of FF, ever

Of course he is. Who could be better?

Stay Away From the Summoner Lady!