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View Full Version : Round 2 - There can be only one



Flying Mullet
05-08-2013, 04:50 PM
The finalists from Round 1 are now facing off in a five person cage match, Royal Rumble style. Who will come out on top?

Gamblet
05-08-2013, 05:28 PM
Shadow, because he'd slit his mama's throat for a nickel!

theundeadhero
05-08-2013, 06:29 PM
I would pee in my neighbor's back yard for a dollar but it doesn't mean I could beat Sabin in a cage fight.

Huckleberry Quin
05-08-2013, 08:02 PM
Words to live by.

Karifean
05-08-2013, 10:14 PM
In a cage fight, the monk obviously wins.

The Man
05-09-2013, 04:50 AM
You people are forgetting that Terra is the only one of these characters who can wield Genji Glove + Offering + Atma Weapon + Illumina. It doesn't matter how badass a monk you are; you can't withstand that kind of assault. If Terra gets the first turn, she wins immediately. And if that doesn't work, she can just cast Ultima five times with Gem Box + Quick.

Huckleberry Quin
05-09-2013, 05:32 AM
There is no first turn. It's a cage fight; not turn based combat.

theundeadhero
05-09-2013, 05:41 AM
And we're not still arguing about who has what equipped.

blackmage_nuke
05-09-2013, 05:20 PM
If Terra gets the first turn, she wins immediately. And if that doesn't work, she can just cast Ultima five times with Gem Box + Quick.

Technically anyone can cast Ultima five times with Gembox+Quick

The Man
05-09-2013, 06:55 PM
Yeah but Terra's magic power is way better than any of the others' who are left. Sabin and Cyan in particular have pretty shitty magic power iirc. Also Umaro can't cast anything.

Also also the lack of turn-based combat is pretty much irrelevant; Offering+Genji means she would fire off her attacks way faster than the others would, once she started them.

theundeadhero
05-09-2013, 07:54 PM
Okay then, I'm going to say that Shadow has the merit award, gem box, illumina and and a dirk equipped.
Cyan has the offering and economizer equipped.
Why? Simply so that Terra can't use them.

Explain how Terra wins now.

Wolf Kanno
05-10-2013, 08:27 AM
Terra, cause she fried fifty magitek soldiers in a few minutes, and mechanically, she has the most build potential out of the group whereas everyone else is kind of limited.

She's also referred to as one of the strongest beings in the game, I mean that has to account for something. She can just fly to the top of the cage and rain down magic death on all of them, not to mention her huge power boosts in Esper form, even just using in game mechanics gives her an advantage unless everyone teamed up to fight her first.

Personality wise, Cyan is too honorable to hit a girl, he sure as hell wouldn't let Sabin hit her and I doubt he would want to since he's too nice. Shadow might actually try something but technically he's outmatched since Terra isn't exactly a push over fighter and all four of them will be too busy taking down Umaro anyway since he is only loyal to Mog. after Umaro is gone, I'm pretty sure the three boys will gladly take a dive for Terra since she's pretty sweet anyway. Terra probably wouldn't even fight unless she goes into a rage when she feels they are picking on Umaro too much. I don't think any of them would stand a chance if she was angry and actually trying.

blackmage_nuke
05-10-2013, 03:29 PM
Sabin will suplex the cage

Flying Mullet
05-10-2013, 03:56 PM
the three boys will gladly take a dive for Terra since she's pretty sweet anyway
:jokey:

Loony BoB
05-10-2013, 05:16 PM
Sabin, because a cage match is a wrestling match first and foremost. I'm pretty sure magic is against the rules in such things.

Terra would be in the 'slumped on the floor but holding her torso up with her hands' pose, Cyan would be in his 'gotta protect thou lady' pose, Shadow would put up a good fight due to his quickness and Umaro due to his strength, but in the end Cyan would carry Terra away from the cage and get counted out because he doesn't wanna hurt nobody, Umaro would fall hard at some point, Shadow couldn't manage without his weaponary. Sabin, though. He's a mean, lean wrestling machine.

Saying Terra could beat Sabin in a cage match is like saying Sabin could beat Terra in a wand fight.

NeoCracker
05-10-2013, 05:27 PM
Wait, are we doing a WWE kind of cage match, a WWE hell in a Cell, or a 'fight to the death' cage match?

I don't know if we can accurately assess the situation until this is cleared up.

Loony BoB
05-10-2013, 05:29 PM
I've been going for the most obvious answer which is the former of your listed options. If it were the latter, I'd opt for Shadow. If it were hell in a cell, I'd still go for Sabin.

Flying Mullet
05-10-2013, 05:34 PM
Wait, are we doing a WWE kind of cage match, a WWE hell in a Cell, or a 'fight to the death' cage match?

I don't know if we can accurately assess the situation until this is cleared up.
I purposely did not specify what the rules are or how the fight is supposed to be interpreted. Half of the fun of these threads is reading how people assess the fight. Some view it like a WWE cage match. Others view it as a true Final Fantasy fight with turn based combat. Some like to view it as the characters with emotions, behaviors and such while others choose to look at equipment and stats.

There is no wrong answer, just how you like to view the battles and your interpretation of how they would play out.

Loony BoB
05-10-2013, 05:35 PM
There is no wrong answer
Sure there is. Anyone but Sabin is the wrong answer.

Flying Mullet
05-10-2013, 05:57 PM
There is no wrong answer
Sure there is. Anyone but Sabin is the wrong answer.
Or in picture form:
http://www.homemade-websites.com/sabin2.png

The Man
05-10-2013, 06:48 PM
Okay then, I'm going to say that Shadow has the merit award, gem box, illumina and and a dirk equipped.
Cyan has the offering and economizer equipped.
Why? Simply so that Terra can't use them.

Explain how Terra wins now.

There is no smurfing reason anyone would use that troutty setup unless they were deliberately trying to game the match. I could de-equip everyone but Terra too, but there is no reason anyone would actually use that setup in actual gameplay.

Under a setup players would actually be likely to use, Terra is by far the best suited of these characters to use either the Gem Box or the Offering+Genji combo, and with either setup she is pretty much guaranteed to win. I think some of you people are forgetting just how much of a difference equipment and statistics make in this game. The fact that Terra can equip the two best weapons in the game means wasting a Genji Glove or an Offering on a character who can't equip them is pointless, unless you're going to use her as a magic tank, which is also justified by her far more impressive magic statistics. Either gives her a huge advantage.

But even without them, she can just cast Ultima twice with Quick and is pretty much guaranteed to kill everyone.

Also what Wolf said.

NeoCracker
05-11-2013, 03:35 AM
Okay then, I'm going to say that Shadow has the merit award, gem box, illumina and and a dirk equipped.
Cyan has the offering and economizer equipped.
Why? Simply so that Terra can't use them.

Explain how Terra wins now.

There is no smurfing reason anyone would use that troutty setup unless they were deliberately trying to game the match. I could de-equip everyone but Terra too, but there is no reason anyone would actually use that setup in actual gameplay.

Under a setup players would actually be likely to use, Terra is by far the best suited of these characters to use either the Gem Box or the Offering+Genji combo, and with either setup she is pretty much guaranteed to win. I think some of you people are forgetting just how much of a difference equipment and statistics make in this game. The fact that Terra can equip the two best weapons in the game means wasting a Genji Glove or an Offering on a character who can't equip them is pointless, unless you're going to use her as a magic tank, which is also justified by her far more impressive magic statistics. Either gives her a huge advantage.

But even without them, she can just cast Ultima twice with Quick and is pretty much guaranteed to kill everyone.

Also what Wolf said.

Do you realize how easy it is to get Sabin to hit max damage with Bum Rush? If we argue mechanics, the only thing that matters is who goes first. Hitting max damage 8 times is basically the same as hitting it once in against a PC.

The Man
05-11-2013, 03:49 AM
That's assuming he hits her first with it, which is an awful big assumption. If memory serves, Blitz selects a target at random, thus if Sabin is going first then there is only a one in four chance that he hits Terra with it. If he doesn't, he's dead. If he does, he might win.

Laddy
05-11-2013, 06:25 AM
Terra. 'Cause she's, like, the single most powerful FF protagonist like...ever.

Pike
05-11-2013, 10:38 PM
No Celes and no Locke? :colbert:

The Man
05-11-2013, 10:56 PM
They were eliminated in the first round.

Pike
05-11-2013, 11:00 PM
They were eliminated in the first round.

I know and I don't understand why :doublecolbert:

The Man
05-11-2013, 11:04 PM
Blame Mulley for putting some of the strongest fighters against one another to begin with.

Pike
05-11-2013, 11:06 PM
MULLEY :argh:

Now I don't know who to vote for.

theundeadhero
05-13-2013, 06:19 AM
The reason is strategy. If they wear them she can't. Simple as that.

LocoColt04
05-13-2013, 06:44 AM
I'm shocked there wasn't a little bit more Umaro love in this.

I mean, logically... you throw a giant beast in a cage with a bunch of things it doesn't trust? Not gonna end well. Umaro single-handedly wrecks the Cultists' Tower. I think he can handle four feeble humanoids in a cage.

The Man
05-13-2013, 07:13 AM
The reason is strategy. If they wear them she can't. Simple as that.As I said:


There is no smurfing reason anyone would use that troutty setup unless they were deliberately trying to game the match.No one would use that setup in natural gameplay.

@Loco: Umaro may be pretty physically powerful, but he has shitty speed and defence. The other characters are likely to get a move in before he can respond, and as has been pointed out, several of them are powerful enough to wipe the others out before they have a chance to act.

LocoColt04
05-13-2013, 07:53 AM
Psh. While my vote still goes for Umaro, Sabin is the only other logical choice in this situation. Coin Toss between them.

The Man
05-13-2013, 08:07 AM
As I've pointed out repeatedly, Sabin has far worse magic power, and cannot equip the best weapons of the game (unless you waste a Relic slot with a Merit Award, of course), so regardless of whether Terra goes for magic or physical attacks, she still has a tremendous advantage. Unless he gets tremendously lucky, she can probably finish him off with one turn.

Greatermaximus
05-13-2013, 12:24 PM
There's no way for Umaro to inflict 'Mute'. I see talking animation but if you don't need much to cast a a spell, a simple 'Stop' will beat Umaro. Or something else.

I will pick Terra not out of bias. If she starts morphed, she's twice as strong as the others at the same level.

Loony BoB
05-13-2013, 01:37 PM
I genuinely don't understand how the words "cage match" can be interpreted as "standard FFVI turn based battle in which stats and all that kind of stuff come into play, characters are unable to know who they are going to attack because of game mechanics".

It's not a battle in a video game! It's a cage match (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cage_match#Cages)!

chionos
05-13-2013, 06:56 PM
I genuinely don't understand how the words "cage match" can be interpreted as "standard FFVI turn based battle in which stats and all that kind of stuff come into play, characters are unable to know who they are going to attack because of game mechanics".

It's not a battle in a video game! It's a cage match (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cage_match#Cages)!

Thank you, Daniel, for being a superior nerd. The other nerds just don't get it.

The Man
05-13-2013, 07:16 PM
"Cage match" or not, Terra still has vastly better magic stats than the others and can equip vastly better equipment. In FFVI, those are by far the most important factors.

theundeadhero
05-15-2013, 02:42 AM
The Man will never understand. Just give up trying to show him.

The Man
05-15-2013, 04:06 AM
I understand what a cage match is. It doesn't make a difference. Terra is still the strongest character. She has the power to wipe everyone else out immediately with a single Ultima. None of the others in this match have the power to do that; their Ultimas would just severely damage their opponents, not completely wipe them out.

Loony BoB
05-15-2013, 10:39 AM
Cage match is a wrestling match, not a magic match. It involves physical combat, not magic. Terra would sooner teleport herself out of the match than hurt her friends with magic regardless. Sabin, Shadow and Umaro would have no such issues - Sabin would consider it a fun game (he would only knock them unconcious, not kill them), Shadow would have no qualms fighting anyone, and Umaro already throws his opponents around in the game so I don't think he'd have a problem throwing them into the side of a cage, either. Terra would never do anything like that, and wouldn't stand a chance in physical combat against any one of them anyway. They're simply better than she is.

If it were a magic fight, yes, Terra would win (although let's face it, if anyone who thinks that magic and all that were actually allowed would still be able to get past Celes in the earlier round has clearly forgotten something).

Cage. Match.

EDIT: Is this a first pin = win, or an elimination match, Mulley? Is this the last round?

chionos
05-15-2013, 10:48 AM
I haven't watched wrestling since I was a wee lad of 5 but I seem to remember the people that won always having someone come in from outside and help them win right as they were about to lose. Which means one of two scenarios play out here:

Either a. Shadow wins when Interceptor surprise fang-rapes Sabin's neck after everyone else has been taken down.

or b. Umaro wins when his manager, Mog, breaks into the cage and starts hitting people with chairs n shit.

I think a is the likelier scenario, so I went with Shadow. Plus, Interceptor and Shadow would have a cool stage name together:

Shadogg

Sha-Dee-Oh-Double-Gee, bitches.

Loony BoB
05-15-2013, 10:54 AM
I can actually see those scenarios happening, chionos. xD However, they don't always happen and when they do, it's generally a case of the 'bad guys' doing it, and none of these chaps are bad guys in that sense. Also, it doesn't always work... but it certainly helps spice things up. :D

blackmage_nuke
05-15-2013, 03:27 PM
Sometimes I dont even understand why fake wrestling has a ref (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBWgmQYAQ90)

Flying Mullet
05-15-2013, 04:17 PM
Is this a first pin = win, or an elimination match, Mulley? Is this the last round?
It's up to you.

And with 30 minutes left on the poll, it looks like Terra is going to take the win unless on of chionos's scenario's play out and some outside assistance shows up...

Loony BoB
05-15-2013, 04:25 PM
Is this a first pin = win, or an elimination match, Mulley? Is this the last round?
It's up to you.
In that case, it's an elimination match. I'd say Cyan and Umaro have been eliminated in this round as they're both at the bottom. But I'm not sure if you meant for me to decide whether or not this is the final round or if you were just suggesting that I imagine how this would all play out in my head. :p

blackmage_nuke
05-15-2013, 04:43 PM
Im voting with the expressed intention of seeing a tie breaker thread

Loony BoB
05-15-2013, 04:52 PM
Sabin edges it. :aimsun:

Flying Mullet
05-15-2013, 05:00 PM
Well there you have it, Sabin pulls the victory at the last minute, in true dramatic fashion. What an edge-of-your-seat nail-biter.

blackmage_nuke
05-15-2013, 05:03 PM
NOOOOO. Shouldnt have voted

chionos
05-15-2013, 05:07 PM
NOOOOO. Shouldnt have voted

You dirty dirty ho.

Loony BoB
05-15-2013, 06:01 PM
To be fair, there is a significant amount of backing for Sabin who hadn't shown up yet, and if they did I'm sure it would have been a landslide victory. :D

I can only assume that Sabin suplex'ed the cage with Terra in it to score the final blow.

chionos
05-15-2013, 07:09 PM
Sabin cheated. It's the only conclusion I can accept. Sabin the cheating cheater cheated. I don't know how yet, but I will figure it out.

The Man
05-15-2013, 07:47 PM
A cage match in the real world can't have magic, because it doesn't exist. There is no reason to assume that a cage match in FFVI's world would disallow characters from using their strengths unless explicitly stated as such. And, as stated, one Ultima from Terra and everyone else in the match is wiped out.

Gamblet
05-15-2013, 07:58 PM
A cage match in the real world can't have magic, because it doesn't exist.

And we can't have those characters fighting in the cage match in the real world, because they do not exist. :colbert:

Loony BoB
05-15-2013, 08:01 PM
I'm pretty sure that magic would not be allowed in a wrestling match because magic is not based on physical contact. It would be like arguing that you should be allowed to use guns in a wrestling match in our world. The word is 'wrestling', and it's got a pretty clear definition. You're just hung up on this 'FFVI statistics and gear and magic battle' thing rather than a cage match.

Either way, the correct individual won.

chionos
05-15-2013, 08:02 PM
[theman]A cage match in the real world can't have magic, because it doesn't exist.

And we can't have those characters fighting in the cage match in the real world, because they do not exist. :colbert:

And we didn't really vote on this poll because we don't exist. :doublecolbert:
And therefore Sabin didn't really win. :colbertsquared:

The Man
05-15-2013, 08:31 PM
A lot of Sabin's Blitz moves aren't based on physical contact either. Furthermore, if you're going to throw out magic because "it's too much like guns", then you also need to throw out weapons because those wouldn't be allowed in real-world wrestling matches either, and Gau and Umaro are arguably stronger with bare hands than Sabin (especially Gau, who could just use Catscratch to eliminate the competition).

Anyway, Mulley explicitly said the match is up to our own interpretation of how it would be staged, so your interpretation of the rules is no more valid than anyone else's.

Gamblet
05-15-2013, 09:24 PM
This thread stopped making sense.

chionos
05-15-2013, 09:31 PM
This thread stopped making sense on 5-08-2013 at 10:50 am.

Fixed that for ya.

Gamblet
05-15-2013, 09:50 PM
This thread stopped making sense on 5-08-2013 at 10:50 am.

Fixed that for ya.

Thanks!

DownDiagonalLeftA
05-16-2013, 01:03 AM
Glad to see the best candidate won.

blackmage_nuke
05-16-2013, 03:34 AM
Since wrestling and cage matches in the real world are staged theoretically they crowd favourite is rigged to win. And therefore by voting Sabin into first place Sabin becomes the one most likely to win the cage match, not vice versa.

Loony BoB
05-16-2013, 10:31 AM
A lot of Sabin's Blitz moves aren't based on physical contact either.
You're really going to try to convince me that Terra is somehow going to be more physically adept than Sabin? xD

Furthermore, if you're going to throw out magic because "it's too much like guns", then you also need to throw out weapons because those wouldn't be allowed in real-world wrestling matches either
I don't think you even watch wrestling. :colbert:

and Gau and Umaro are arguably stronger with bare hands than Sabin (especially Gau, who could just use Catscratch to eliminate the competition).
Gau's not there and wrestling skill wins over raw strength (that's why Mark Henry sucked as a wrestler, the big baby).

Man, I should really get Del Murder into this thread.

Del Murder
05-16-2013, 04:23 PM
Typically a cage match is no disqualification, therefore Terra would win by getting into Esper form and tossing a few fireballs around. She could also fly out of the cage for the easy win.

In a straight wrestling match, Sabin is the clear winner. Umaro may be stronger but he's also slower. Cage matches are all about speed. Plus Sabin suplexed a train. I think he can handle a yeti.

Shadow has the wild card since he would be accompanied to the ring by Interceptor, but valets can hardly help you in the cage.

I don't even know why Cyan is on the list.

Loony BoB
05-16-2013, 04:30 PM
She could also fly out of the cage for the easy win.
Oh man, I didn't even consider the idea of a cage match where you win by getting through the roof. Yeah, she'd easily win that with barely any effort.

I still don't think she has it in her to attack her comrades, magic or not.

The Man
05-16-2013, 07:46 PM
If we're including weapons, then yes, Terra is more physically adept than Sabin. All she has to do is slash with the Ultima Weapon. The others are dead.

In fact a strong case could be made that the attacks with Offering (or Master's Scroll if that's the translation you're used to), though they're animated as separate slashes for the convenience of the player, occur at the same time. Enemies never counterattack Offering attacks until all of the attacks have been made. This is in direct contrast to other items like Gem Box, where enemies can counterattack individual spells in between the time players cast them. This means that by this logic, if Terra has Offering and Ultima Weapon, she wins immediately.

Of course, if you Game Genie yourself an Offering before you're supposed to get one, you'll find out that the timer runs down in between each attack, but that's pretty clearly not applicable to canon since the only way you can have an Offering for any of the timed sequences in the game without cheating is to perform things out of order and wait to get Sabin until after fixing Figaro Castle and getting the airship in the World of Ruin.

And yeah, what Del pointed about her being able to fly. That's a pretty big disadvantage for the others that I didn't even think of.

Loony BoB
05-16-2013, 08:51 PM
I'm pretty sure wrestling matches don't include game genies.

When it's No Disqualification, it means you beat each other up with chairs, tables, ladders, perhaps a sledgehammer (although never in a massive way), bells, barbed wire, baseball bats, cars, bikes, fire extinguishers, stuff you find around the venue.

I'm pretty sure there aren't swords around these venues. :p

I imagine the host of any cage match featuring a flying person would put a lid on the cage, but if they are too stupid to then the fight will be over before it's even a fight, yeah.

The Man
05-16-2013, 11:23 PM
A cage match where some participants are arbitrarily disallowed from using some of their natural strengths is a pretty smurfing stupid cage match. It doesn't accurately reflect the participants' innate abilities if some of those abilities are banned.

DownDiagonalLeftA
05-17-2013, 01:47 AM
We're gonna act like Terra wasn't getting whooped by Vargas in a brawl when she had the help of Locke AND Edgar? We all know who had to come through and stop him.

The Man
05-17-2013, 03:08 AM
Because Terra's power at the start of the game when she didn't even know she was half-Esper is completely comparable to her power after she comes to terms with her identity.

Oh wait.

That's not even a particularly representative battle because it's programmed to end as soon as Sabin hits Vargas with a blitz, no matter how much damage it does. (Actually, in theory a powered-up party could defeat Vargas before Sabin shows up, but I'm pretty sure it's also programmed to throw them off the screen after they do a preset amount of damage to him - which, let's note, isn't him killing them, or even damaging them; it's just him removing them from the battle). None of this speaks particularly well to either Sabin's ability to damage people who are not Vargas or Vargas' ability to damage the party. All it speaks to is Vargas' ability to push opponents out of the field of combat, which wouldn't contribute anything to a cage match even if he were a participant.

And let's be honest. Sabin isn't the one who fried fifty of the Empire's best soldiers in five minutes.

Flying Mullet
05-17-2013, 03:18 AM
And let's be honest. Sabin isn't the one who fried fifty of the Empire's best soldiers in five minutes.
He did it in two minutes.

The Man
05-17-2013, 03:26 AM
It's highly unlikely that he could do it more quickly than Terra; he has shitty magic power compared to Terra's and the Blitzes that target multiple targets aren't as powerful as the ones that hit single targets. Terra could just Ultima each of them in succession and use Osmose if she ever runs out of magic (and that's assuming she doesn't just have Economizer equipped).

DownDiagonalLeftA
05-17-2013, 03:33 AM
It's highly unlikely that he could do it more quickly than Terra; he has troutty magic power compared to Terra's and the Blitzes that target multiple targets aren't as powerful as the ones that hit single targets. Terra could just Ultima each of them in succession and use Osmose if she ever runs out of magic (and that's assuming she doesn't just have Economizer equipped).

You're right. Sabin can't learn Ultima. He also can't equip Economizer.

And since you seem to keep bringing up game mechanics, Sabin has a higher base speed than Terra. What's Terra doing when Sabin lets off that ultima quick ultima ultima ultima ultima if he has gem box and economizer equipped?

Oh.

The Man
05-17-2013, 04:24 AM
He can learn Ultima, but his magic power sucks compared to Terra's. His Ultima is unlikely to wipe out the other characters. Terra's will.

Furthermore, I thought it was pretty much established that this wasn't going to be a turn-based battle. But if we're going to obey the rules of turn-based combat slavishly, Sabin's Blitzes can either: target multiple people, in which case they're unlikely to wipe out all of his opponents, because their magic defence is going to be too high; or target one person, in which case it is chosen randomly. If Sabin takes out Terra, he has a realistic shot of winning the match, but that is only a one-in-four chance.

But none of this changes the fact that if we're actually regarding this in terms of the game's actual storytelling, Terra can just morph into an esper, fly out of range of the other characters, and rain down destruction from above. None of the other party members has a defence against that.

By the way: Sabin's speed is a meagre four points higher than Terra's, which, even if we're going to accept that speed status makes a difference in a cage match, isn't going to enable him to pull off an attack he can complete before Terra can cast Ultima or swing the Ultima Weapon. Meanwhile, Terra's magic power is eleven more than Sabin's. That's a much more substantial difference. The only character with a higher innate magic power in FFVI is Relm, but even then, the player will likely have raised Terra's magic power to beyond that with Esper stat bonuses by the time Relm can be recruited.

Loony BoB
05-17-2013, 10:20 AM
A cage match where some participants are arbitrarily disallowed from using some of their natural strengths is a pretty smurfing stupid cage match. It doesn't accurately reflect the participants' innate abilities if some of those abilities are banned.
A cage match where you win by escaping the cage including someone that can fly is stupid in itself, so don't you go arguing stupidity. A cage match is a wrestling match and a wrestling match involves wrestling, not toasting your opponent in green flames or flying out for a cheap win. Wrestling! Wrestling wrestling wrestling. You know nothing, Aaron Freed.

It would be stupid for Terra to even be in a wrestling match with Sabin, Umaro and Shadow (and Cyan, I guess...) but that's who got voted into this round by the masses. In reality, she'd never have got past Celes. If they can use their innate abilities, Celes can Runic until Terra runs out of gas. If they can't use their innate abilities, Celes would beat Terra in a wrestling match. Them's the breaks! Of course, it's all a moot point because Terra's a pansy and wouldn't want to hurt her friends even in a 'friendly' fight.

But yeah, when you set up a cage match it makes sense that you expect the people to actually wrestle instead of taking cheap shots. Sabin is the better wrestler. You just don't go beyond that. The only people I'd say have a chance of beating Sabin at wrestling would be Gau or Umaro, and it would be a pretty great fight. Shadow after that as he might have some good submission holds in him since he's a ninja and probably can paralyse his opponents with some kinda fancy move or... something. xD

The Man
05-18-2013, 04:29 AM
It's stupid that you're insisting this has to be a pure wrestling match when Mulley has repeatedly and explicitly said that the interpretation of what kind of match the characters are fighting is up to the individual voting. Obviously a lot of people did not interpret this as a pure wrestling match and the fact that you are discounting their interpretations purely because of your narrow-minded interpretation of what characters would do if forced to fight one another is absurd. Obviously a lot of people are much more interested in pursuing the question of which character is the strongest overall than which character is the strongest in specific narrow fields of physical combat (and Terra is certainly no slouch in those either since she can equip Offering, Genji Glove, Illumina, and Ultima Weapon and attack her foes physically in her morphed state). Terra won against Celes and Relm because Runic doesn't mean a goddamn thing if Terra attacks her physically, which she is more than capable of doing with some of the most powerful weapons in the game, and she can morph to gain additional power. Celes can't do a thing to block against physical attacks except attempt to heal, and if Terra is coming at her in her morphed state with Ultima Weapon then she won't be conscious to heal herself after Terra has attacked her. And your interpretation of Terra not wanting to hurt her friends is a ridiculous reason to discount her when one considers that, as Wolf Kanno has already pointed out, Cyan and Sabin (and probably the others) would not hurt a woman unless absolutely forced to.

Loony BoB
05-18-2013, 08:21 AM
It's stupid that you're insisting this has to be a pure wrestling match when Mulley has repeatedly and explicitly said that the interpretation of what kind of match the characters are fighting is up to the individual voting.
Looks like more individuals agreed with me than with you, so Sabin wins regardless. :D

Maybe it's stupid that you're interpreting it in a way that isn't a wrestling match when you consider that when you search "cage match" on the internet you're basically given a page of wrestling images. :p Everyone who pays attention to what a cage match is should know it's a wrestling match of some kind.

If it was a question of "who is the most powerful character" then I'm pretty sure Mulley would have asked who the more powerful character is rather than "who would win in a cage match". Pretty sure Mulley also knows more about FFVI than most here and he voted Sabin, too. :monster: I think he only suggested that "it's up to interpretation" because he's too nice a guy to say "You're wrong, you're wrong, you're wroooooooooooong, oh so wrong, it's crazy, you're just so wrong it's wrong."

I have no qualms with saying this to you. :aimsun:

theundeadhero
05-18-2013, 06:28 PM
I find it ridiculous to assume a cage doesn't have a top to keep people from flying out of it.

The Man
05-18-2013, 07:19 PM
Looks like more individuals agreed with me than with you, so Sabin wins regardless.
Only if you disregard the fact that one of those individuals voted for Sabin purely because he wished to see a tie, not because he actually thought Sabin was more powerful. Also, nice appeal to popularity fallacy. You are confusing popularity with actual strength. As chionos pointed out in the previous thread:
If Bob's right then Bieber and Taylor Swift are two of the greatest musical artists of their generation. Numbers don't lie, right? :monster:


Maybe it's stupid that you're interpreting it in a way that isn't a wrestling match when you consider that when you search "cage match" on the internet you're basically given a page of wrestling images. Everyone who pays attention to what a cage match is should know it's a wrestling match of some kind.Maybe it's stupid that you're disregarding what the starter of this thread stated and assuming that a cage match in the FFVI world would be fought along the same lines as a cage match in the real world.


If it was a question of "who is the most powerful character" then I'm pretty sure Mulley would have asked who the more powerful character is rather than "who would win in a cage match".If Mulley had wanted to ask "who would win in an Earth-style cage match," then when pressed for details about what the question meant he would not have said that it was up to the player's interpretation.


Pretty sure Mulley also knows more about FFVI than most here and he voted Sabin, too. :monster:Appeal to authority fallacy.


I think he only suggested that "it's up to interpretation" because he's too nice a guy to say "You're wrong, you're wrong, you're wroooooooooooong, oh so wrong, it's crazy, you're just so wrong it's wrong."

I have no qualms with saying this to you. 8-)And I think you're full of trout, just like you were when you said that soup is a drink. I have no qualms with saying this to you. 8-)

I already explained multiple ways Terra could win a physical wrestling match. You have yet to rebut them. You seem to be underestimating just how important equipment is in this game. An attack from Ultima Weapon is nothing to sneeze at, especially since it ignores defences. You also seem to be underestimating just how powerful Terra is when Morphed. It doubles her attack power and reduces the magic damage she takes in half. This makes defeating Sabin child's play, especially since most of his blitzes are counted as magic damage.


I find it ridiculous to assume a cage doesn't have a top to keep people from flying out of it.
Unless the top is at seven feet high, it doesn't really matter whether there's a top or not; Terra can still float to beyond the characters' ability to reach her. Given that most wrestling matches are fought in venues with reasonably high ceilings to enable large audiences to view them, it is unlikely that the ceiling of the venue would be low enough to make a difference.

Loony BoB
05-19-2013, 09:56 AM
You just keep on arguing that a cage match isn't a wrestling match. xD It's kinda funny. I did rebut your comment, but you seem to think swords are commonplace in wrestling matches.

The Man
05-19-2013, 04:52 PM
I just keep arguing that this isn't a pure wrestling match because Mulley has now explicitly set out a series of guidelines and background that make it plain that this isn't a pure wrestling match.

Loony BoB
05-20-2013, 02:35 PM
He said it was open to interpretation, as you pointed out, and that means it most certainly could have been a pure wrestling match, and it seems most people were thinking along these lines. But you're right, it could have been a non-pure wrestling match. Sort of like if you were to create a thread titled 'Chess Tournament' and ask which FFVI character would win in a chess tournament (but leave what that means to interpretation) you could interpret that the chess tournament would involve killing your opponents with a marble chess board and it's pieces.

Which would be kinda cool.

Flying Mullet
05-20-2013, 05:05 PM
Sort of like if you were to create a thread titled 'Chess Tournament' and ask which FFVI character would win in a chess tournament (but leave what that means to interpretation) you could interpret that the chess tournament would involve killing your opponents with a marble chess board and it's pieces.

Which would be kinda cool.
And Sabin would win that too. 43299