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Freya
05-30-2013, 08:21 PM
I am playing through them again and realized I do love the combat. The story seems pretty great and well put together. It's gorgeous and the combat is fun.

I don't care for the characters. That's my problem. None of the characters resonated really with me. So I lose interest. I think Sazh is the most endearing of them all. Instead of trying to make a stoic female cloud they could have done so much more with lightning. I hope they do with the next entry because I actually love the world.

Noel in XIII-2 is my favorite I think out of the new cast. While this is the opposite opinion of the favorite characters thread, this isn't the point of it.

The point is: What turned you off of this entry? A lot of people didn't like it. Maybe you loved it! What do you think was the reason people didn't care for it?

Now be nice about it. This is constructive criticism!

Skyblade
05-30-2013, 10:56 PM
It's a bland, featureless, empty corridor. Now, so you know what I'm talking about, let me bring up another game: FFX. FFX is a memorable, exciting corridor, filled with tons of interesting people and things to do.

FFXIII is empty. There are more player characters in the world than their are NPCs (ok, not quite. I think the NORA team technically edges the count toward the NPCs). The majority of the game's meaningful dialogue actually comes from a bunch of frelling floating rocks on Pulse. How screwed up is that?

Oh, and the combat is fun, but the Crystarium is way too restrictive. The combat doesn't really get enjoyable until endgame, when you actually have enough abilities that you can use the system. Also, I dislike how the system punishes trying to take direct control of battles. FFX-2 was a much better execution of a similar concept.

And, while I don't mind the linearity (I did love FFX, again), I do think it got absolutely ridiculous. Also, FFX used it's linearity better. FFX was a journey, a trail to the final Aeon and the battle against Sin. You're on a set mission and path, so linear makes sense. In XIII, 95% of the game is spent trying to figure out WTF your team's focus is (because for some reason, the Fal'Cie choose not to just tell you), and you have no goal in mind. If ever a game called for mindless wandering instead of linearity, this one is it.

SteahMeLee
05-31-2013, 12:31 AM
I still don't played it even while I know about the flaws you listed...

Why you ask?


I'm studying the system and trying to find a way to reproduce the classes but I can't find a clear way, they are all too much of hybrids... I want a Knight, a Black Mage, a Thief, etc... I'm really frustrated I can't actually create them...

That's the main thing I dislike of the game... I'd have run for an empty corridor for dozens of hours if I could have done it with classes... :D

Lucrokender
07-01-2013, 03:42 PM
FFX seemed really big the first time you played it. After that you have to agree that it has just as much to do that XIII does. And nothing compared to XIII-2. Don't let the past change your perception of the present!

Honestly, I really enjoyed the XIII characters. I spent half the game going "Come on, make me care" and then by chapter 7, I did. By the very end I was crying when I watched everyone walk into the sunset. ]

We have Lightning - Hope (Mother and Son, Hope lost his mother, Lightning lost her Sister, Hope can't get his mother back, Lightning is trying desperately to save her sister. Their entire storyline is actually quite amazing if you read into the actual metaphors behind their connection)

Snow - Everyone (Him against the world, including himself -His dear love is missing, and he is powerless to save her. He realizes Lightning doesn't believe in him, and he begins to doubt himself. But it's this doubt that fortify's his resolve, a "shock" to his system that he needed. He wants to protect everyone,but he has to learn to protect his dearly beloved first, yet in his current life, he has to figure out how to do both. Another amazing conflict.)

Vanille and Hope (Vanille provides the hope that Hope needs to keep himself alive as a person. She knows he lost his mother, and she knows his need to kill Snow is wrong, but she comforts him and has his back emotionally. She knows her ultimate fate, and the futility in all their actions, but it's actually Hope's determination that begins with hate that makes her realize that everything doesn't have to be hopeless. She provides hope and love to him to counter his anger, and he provides her with a sense of determination and faith.)

I'd keep going about Sazh, but everyone seems to love him, for obvious reasons.

Fang, even though she was awsome, came too late in the story in my opinion. She is my only gripe. I cried when she died, and it was awsome seeing her near the end of XIII-2, but still. She didn't become a part of the group early enough to become to close to me. However,she replaces Hope as Vanille's emotional rock, and Lightning fortifies Hope where Vanille was no longer needed.

All in all, this game was more a psychological and emotional roller coaster than a bland hero driven "let's save the world" story. The inner turmoil each character has is VERY real, and very relate able.

I think XIII had one of the best stories to date.

SteahMeLee
09-10-2013, 09:25 PM
I actually like XIII story and characters! But I prefer X over XIII by 100 times for it's system! It's more fun to me but most of all it lets you make classes and make them well!

Bolivar
09-10-2013, 10:35 PM
I think everyone was skeptical and with the first leaks about the game play pandemonium just took hold and closed or senses. It actually is a pretty good game.

I wonder if the mini map over-emphasized how linear the game was.

SteahMeLee
09-10-2013, 10:51 PM
I have no prejudice over this game! :D I just tried to assign every character a Job Class and I find it hard! Do you have any advice?!

I don't want melee fighters to have and use spells but even keeping them in the Commando role makes them use Ruin! I'm quite disappointed! :|

Karifean
09-11-2013, 12:16 AM
I have no prejudice over this game! :D I just tried to assign every character a Job Class and I find it hard! Do you have any advice?!

How about this: instead of using traditional roles like Knights and Mages who only use physical attacks or magic respectively, use the roles provided in XIII - fighters who can use both but either excel at heavy damaging or weakening enemies. It's a different approach on classes, but it's classes nonetheless.

In essence, assign two or three roles to every party member and level up ONLY THOSE ROLES. Say you make Lightning into a Commando + Saboteur. In that case, never ever touch her Ravager, Sentinel, Synergist or Medic Crystariums and instead only ever invest CP into her Commando and Saboteur Crystariums.

That would keep the characters distinct from one another and give them each their own strengths and weaknesses. Now it's only a matter of actually managing to beat them game that way...

SteahMeLee
09-11-2013, 12:49 AM
How about this: instead of using traditional roles like Knights and Mages who only use physical attacks or magic respectively, use the roles provided in XIII - fighters who can use both but either excel at heavy damaging or weakening enemies. It's a different approach on classes, but it's classes nonetheless.

In essence, assign two or three roles to every party member and level up ONLY THOSE ROLES. Say you make Lightning into a Commando + Saboteur. In that case, never ever touch her Ravager, Sentinel, Synergist or Medic Crystariums and instead only ever invest CP into her Commando and Saboteur Crystariums.

That would keep the characters distinct from one another and give them each their own strengths and weaknesses. Now it's only a matter of actually managing to beat them game that way...

Yeah, thanks, I know, it's actually what I has been stuck to do! Having traditional classes is not possible or it is with some compromises!
I was already playing it this way and I arrived to when you surpass the area made of ice-like crystal! I already have Paradigms and I was already playing with each characters having only two possible roles each!

I actually aim to the reflection of traditional Jobs but it's quite complicated and that damn straight-lined Crystarium doesn't help!

Lightning may be a Red Mage, so Commando and Ravager alone are the best couple of roles for her... Snow shall be a Monk... Well, I could give him Commando and Sentinel, pure melee fighter... Sazh is a real problem here... He is stuck with Ravager early and after that I could make him Commando too but I don't know what traditional class he could be! Show and Vanille are Mages! Vanille White Mage and Snow Black Mage! She should have Medic and Saboteur and he should have Ravager and Synergist I think (although logic-wise White Mage should be Medic+Sybergist and Black Mage should be Ravager+Saboteur)! Fang will be judged later but she is probably another Commando+Sentinel (Dragoon class but the roles are these)...

Nevertheless I have a bad feeling about this! Like I couldn't really control the development of the party...

And I really really don't how to define Sazh in terms of the traditional classes!

Outside of all this the game is surely playable and enjoyable with this class differentiation but not every characters are easily to frame into one of the traditional classes and after that recreate it with the available role paths the game offers!

Lamia
09-22-2013, 08:44 AM
I loved the game but now that time has passed by I can see why people have issues with it. The previous Final Fantasies just had a lot more substance to them. The world of FFXIII isn't fleshed out. It had an interesting premise so its a shame that we weren't able to fully explore Pulse and Cocoon. Also the cast had a very different dynamic than previous FFs (7-12). It didn't really have a main male and female character... Cloud/Squall/Zidane/Tidus/Vaan and Aerith/Rinoa/Garnet/Yuna/Ashe.

IMO XIII shares a lot of problems with other Final Fantasies

-Cheesy dialogue (FFX)
-Linearity/levels made of corridors (FFX)
-Simplistic/uninteresting character customization (FFIX)
-Blah summons system (FFXII)
-No world map or controllable airship (FFX, XII)


But it also has many issues unique to it

-Little exploration and few things to discover
-No towns, few NPCs, universe not fleshed out
-End game content is not varied
-Little variety in equipment. Many accessories seem kind of useless.
-Really? No dungeon puzzles? Just walk straight through?
-Mini games and side quests are few and do not add much to the experience.

Despite every FF game having its share of flaws, they usually have awesome innovations that make up for them. Unfortunately, XIII is only strong in a few areas.
Example: many fans did not like the art style of Final Fantasy IX. But the game still had awesome mini games (chocobo digging, Tetra Master). It also had many side quests and things to do and cool and unique characters.

Example 2: Many people did not like how different XII was... political storyline, different aesthetic, different music, different battle system... BUT it had tons of exploration, enemy variety, "epic loot", secret bosses, awesome hunts system, easter eggs, and a ton of character customization.



The great things about Final Fantasy XIII:

-The graphics are GORGEOUS
-Seamless transition from CGI to real-time
-Wonderful music
-Amazing battle system
-Well developed cast of characters
-Good story

But even these positives come under fire from fans. The battle system is fun, tactical, and fast paced but many feel that you sacrifice control. Some fans feel that the graphics came at a price... the price of better gameplay and exploration. The music is not Uematsu and its different. The cast of characters is also different than what we normally see in an FF... plus Vanille and Hope annoy fans. The story is good but it was convoluted in a way that you would expect from a sci-fi anime and not a Final Fantasy.

Yet, after saying all this, I still loved XIII. But I can see why fans were disappointed...

Hollycat
09-22-2013, 04:15 PM
There's a bunch of reason's that I didn't like this game.

Total linearity. You can't even wander off to go back to see the pretty crystal cave again.
I guess it makes sense because of the story, but it still sucks.

The combat isn't engaging at all. At the very begining you've pretty much mastered it.
Click attack to make things die. If they won't die, switch to magic. If you get hit, switch to healing. The end.

We don't get our first sidequest till nearly the end of the game.

The sidequests are all awful.

There is ZERO npc interaction, for the first time in a ff game. Just think of how much ff12 and 10 had. You could talk to nearly everyone.

The game tried to ship Lightning and Hope. Do not want.

It didn't feel like a ff game, I think they should have released it as a new IP.

Skyblade
09-23-2013, 02:53 AM
There's a bunch of reason's that I didn't like this game.

Indeed. The same is true for most people.


Total linearity. You can't even wander off to go back to see the pretty crystal cave again.
I guess it makes sense because of the story, but it still sucks.

No, it doesn't make sense because of the story. The story is one of discovery, of figuring out what they're supposed to do, and how they're supposed to do it. That's about as non-linear as you can get.


The combat isn't engaging at all. At the very begining you've pretty much mastered it.
Click attack to make things die. If they won't die, switch to magic. If you get hit, switch to healing. The end.

My problem with the combat was the opposite. It only got good about fifteen hours in, when you finally had enough choices and control over the systems to make decisions interesting and important.


We don't get our first sidequest till nearly the end of the game.

The sidequests are all awful.

True.


There is ZERO npc interaction, for the first time in a ff game. Just think of how much ff12 and 10 had. You could talk to nearly everyone.

Not only are there no NPC interactions, there are no NPCs, period. There are more Cieth stones in this world than there are people.


The game tried to ship Lightning and Hope. Do not want.

I missed that, somehow. And I'm quite thankful for it. I viewed their relationship with Lightning being more of a surrogate mother, if anything.


It didn't feel like a ff game, I think they should have released it as a new IP.

Only in the sense that it wasn't up to the quality of the rest of the series, for the above mentioned reasons. I think, insofar as its core goes, it definitely had potential as an FF game. It just was horribly put together.

Flaming Ice
09-23-2013, 06:40 AM
No money from battles yet a lot things were expensive.

You had to lose your best items if you wanted more money

Your best items are used for upgrading your equipment (which takes a long time of the game to get a decent amount of upgrades) so you don't want to trade them off for money.



You magically buy things from a computer......urgh how does the computer have all these items ? Kind of mysterious when a computer takes gold for items it would have to magic out of nowhere....What does a computer do with money!?




Then you know you'll get better weapons later on so you don't even want to use resources to upgrade your weapons....yet you don't want weak weapons.....

Skyblade
09-23-2013, 07:18 AM
No money from battles yet a lot things were expensive.

You had to lose your best items if you wanted more money

Your best items are used for upgrading your equipment (which takes a long time of the game to get a decent amount of upgrades) so you don't want to trade them off for money.



You magically buy things from a computer......urgh how does the computer have all these items ? Kind of mysterious when a computer takes gold for items it would have to magic out of nowhere....What does a computer do with money!?




Then you know you'll get better weapons later on so you don't even want to use resources to upgrade your weapons....yet you don't want weak weapons.....

Easy solution: Never upgrade anything. That's how I played. I beat everything in the game, including Vicengetorix that way. Maybe you'll never be able to defeat a Long GUI without upgrading, but, frankly, I wasn't about to take part in the otherwise-pointless upgrading grinds for one fight.

Flaming Ice
09-24-2013, 03:47 AM
Easy solution: Never upgrade anything. That's how I played. I beat everything in the game, including Vicengetorix that way. Maybe you'll never be able to defeat a Long GUI without upgrading, but, frankly, I wasn't about to take part in the otherwise-pointless upgrading grinds for one fight.


I had Hope, Lightning and Sazh with one level 9 weapon each and I still couldn't beat one of the bosses (the boss that's after Vanille's village that has a time limit to beat him in).



And I believe each of the Crystarium's were full for their main classes.

Elskidor
09-24-2013, 05:38 PM
I can't even recall the things I didn't like about this game, but to me that speaks for itself. It's not a very memorable title. I thought the characters were bland and boring, which sucked because I was looking forward to a new bad ass female lead. The world was tiny and the entire thing was so linear it bored me to tears. I think I remember getting highly annoyed by the currency and the way in which you advanced. You couldn't even unlock certain things until you beat the game, and then if you wanted to you could do play through it again, or something like that, but if it wasn't fun the first time around, why would one want to replay it a second time? It has been a few years so I may give it another go, but I'm not expecting my opinion to change. That being said, it is a beautiful game though. It's probably the best looking FF title with some truly wonderful graphics, but graphics are also one of the most unimportant part of any game to me.

Slothy
09-27-2013, 08:50 PM
I'm just going to put it out there that the battle system was the most boring and least tactical of any JRPG I think I've ever played. They did an excellent job of removing almost all player agency from it. For me it was the most unforgivable part of the whole thing. I could have forgiven a lot of its other problems including, possibly, the awful story and characters had it actually been fun to play.

Hollycat
09-27-2013, 08:52 PM
I'm just going to put it out there that the battle system was the most boring and least tactical of any JRPG I think I've ever played. They did an excellent job of removing almost all player agency from it. For me it was the most unforgivable part of the whole thing. I could have forgiven a lot of its other problems including, possibly, the awful story and characters had it actually been fun to play.
This.

It was less like being given a game to play and more like being given a school assignment.

Skyblade
09-28-2013, 12:05 AM
I found it fun to play. Eventually. The problem for me was that the combat was only good once you hit endgame. Until you had all the various jobs and abilities, it was the most mind-agonizingly dull game ever.

Once you could do everything, the combat system was alright. Until then? Worthless.

Flaming Ice
09-28-2013, 05:34 AM
The problem is that they had to change the gameplay or they'd probably end up getting lower scores for the same ol' combat system.


They were probably testing something out and trying to improve it with the release of the other games.

black orb
09-30-2013, 06:33 AM
>>> Because except for the graphics and the music (which was pretty average), everything about this game is terrible, story, battle system, cristarium, maps, difficulty, etc..:luca:

Loony BoB
09-30-2013, 12:05 PM
Huh, I actually really liked most of the characters in the game, particularly their personality and development, and the script (not the story!) was generally great compared to most FF's. Needed a much better plot, though. I liked the premise (l'Cie/fal'Cie/Cie'th system), but the execution was terrible and the ending could have been a lot better. They could have taken some much more interesting steps, such as Hope actually turning into a Cie'th (and the rest of the party having to kill him) or Sazh actually committing suicide.

Skyblade
09-30-2013, 07:07 PM
Unfortunately, we're well past the point that Square goes that deep. Was anyone fooled, even for a moment, by Sazh's "suicide"?

Tigmafuzz
10-01-2013, 08:17 AM
Hallway Simulator XIII

Mirage
10-01-2013, 12:03 PM
Unfortunately, we're well past the point that Square goes that deep. Was anyone fooled, even for a moment, by Sazh's "suicide"?

Considering the opening cinematic "montage" showed him alive in a cutscene that hadn't happened yet at that point in the game, not really. They spoiled the game before it had even started!

What I dislike about FF13 is that there are no towns, no NPCs, no nothing except for the party members. The world doesn't feel alive. I never got the impression that this is a world that actually existed outside of being the stage where the main story played out.

There are no side-quests for the first 90% of the game either. All you get is some dumb stones that make voices appear in your head or something. While it adds gameplay content, none of the cieth stones really make you care about the people who gave you the missions, at least not to the degree that a real NPC with voiceovers and facial expressions would.

There is also nearly no exploration, and you can't even revisit old places. Every area you can see in the game is one of the following: Your next destination, or an area you can never ever go to. It makes the game's level design predictable and unexciting. Furthermore, even if you do bump into things that aren't part of the main story, the characters never speak among themselves about the amazing things they see on their journey either. You get a pre-digested datalog entry about it instead. Well that is nice, but I wanted to know Snow's personal reaction to it, or Fang's personal reaction to it, not a dry piece of text.


I've recently been playing Tales of Xillia, and that game is nearly bursting at the seams with character interaction like that. Countless times, the game will display short conversations between party members, based on things you run past, examine, or even do in battle. If one character gets knocked out a lot in a battle, she's apologize for dragging you all down a bit later as you're back in the field areas, running around. Other times, one of the party members might make a comment about how amazing she thought one of the windmills that just came into view were. Even if they are just text boxes with voiceovers, I feel that they alone add a as much meat to characters than almost all of the actual cutscenes in FF13, and then I've not yet counted the actual cutscenes of Xillia.


So... that's what I mainly hate about FF13.

Loony BoB
10-01-2013, 12:31 PM
Unfortunately, we're well past the point that Square goes that deep. Was anyone fooled, even for a moment, by Sazh's "suicide"?
Nope. But if they did have that happen, I think it would have been on par with Aeris' death. Ditto Hope turning into a Cie'th and having to be killed by his friends. That would have been an amazing twist.

Jessweeee♪
10-04-2013, 12:34 AM
Unfortunately, we're well past the point that Square goes that deep. Was anyone fooled, even for a moment, by Sazh's "suicide"?
Nope. But if they did have that happen, I think it would have been on par with Aeris' death.

I wonder sometimes if that's precisely why they don't kill off party members mid-game anymore.

Skyblade
10-04-2013, 01:49 AM
Unfortunately, we're well past the point that Square goes that deep. Was anyone fooled, even for a moment, by Sazh's "suicide"?
Nope. But if they did have that happen, I think it would have been on par with Aeris' death.

I wonder sometimes if that's precisely why they don't kill off party members mid-game anymore.

The usual response to this is, I think "wasted resources". Playable characters are so expensive to produce, models, animations, voice acting, etcetera, that companies are loathe to throw that away.

Notice how perfectly balanced the characters are, with their relation to the classes and combat styles? Killing Sazh off would have wrecked all of that, not to mention removing the only comic relief in the game.

Square did the bare minimum for characterization in this game. There's, what, fifteen people, total, in the whole game? Could they really afford to get rid of one?

Elpizo
10-04-2013, 08:24 PM
Square did the bare minimum for characterization in this game. There's, what, fifteen people, total, in the whole game? Could they really afford to get rid of one?

Sure they could. They got rid of Jill without any flair or spectacle too, after all. She never got to do much and then got unceremoniously offed by a pope before we even got a chance to do it ourselves.

Skyblade
10-04-2013, 08:46 PM
Square did the bare minimum for characterization in this game. There's, what, fifteen people, total, in the whole game? Could they really afford to get rid of one?

Sure they could. They got rid of Jill without any flair or spectacle too, after all. She never got to do much and then got unceremoniously offed by a pope before we even got a chance to do it ourselves.

This is true. And I do agree that they certainly could have (and it would have been much more compelling than what they did). I just think that the developers felt a little too tied to their systems to actually do something like that.

Silent Warrior
10-05-2013, 02:13 PM
I think XIII-2 was mostly a warm-up for Kingdom Hearts 3... (By that I mean that you go from world to world, everything is basically kind of silly until it gets serious, and then it all just hits the fan, and then you're done. Smack inna face.) I mean, it WAS/IS fun to play and all, but the story itself just doesn't make sense. Incoherent, disjointed, maybe in preparation for a non-linearity that was designed away... Caius was a surprisingly interesting antagonist, but Snow's part of the cake just... I don't even know. Better if they'd left him out, or kept him in New Bodhum, instead of generating disbelief. I'm still utterly baffled by Alyssa. Absolutely uncalled-for, that one. At least the final dungeon was a challenging puzzle without going overboard into convolution galore.

Ayen
10-07-2013, 12:49 AM
I actually liked Lightning and Sazh, but didn't like Snow or the other characters it suddenly switched to in the beginning. I played through it just wanting to get back to Lightning and the whole beginning feels longer than Taris in KotOR. I didn't like that you couldn't control your allies in battle and got a game over when you died when there's two fresh allies you should be able to utilize in combat. It doesn't help that Square has been constantly changing the battle system in each game since X-2. The FMVs felt like they were trying to do the FFX, MGS, Xenosaga thing but it just didn't deliver the same quality or substance as those games did. It didn't pull me in and was largely unforgettable except for a few areas. What I can't figure out is why this game is getting so much attention from Square and another sequel after XIII-2. It feels as those they're trying to make it the next Final Fantasy VII.

Elskidor
11-02-2013, 09:16 PM
It didn't pull me in and was largely unforgettable except for a few areas. What I can't figure out is why this game is getting so much attention from Square and another sequel after XIII-2.

It did better in Japan than it did here. It did really well there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XIII

"Final Fantasy XIII received generally positive reviews. It was rated 39 out of 40 by the Japanese gaming magazine Famitsu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famitsu).[103] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XIII#cite_note-FAMITSUreview-103) Dengeki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dengeki_PlayStation) praised the game for the battle system, stating that the battles are by far the most exciting in the series, and concluded Final Fantasy XIII deserved a score of 120, as 100 would not be enough.[117] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XIII#cite_note-Dengeki-117) The game was voted as the second best game of 2009 in Dengeki Online's reader poll,[118] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XIII#cite_note-DENGEKIreview-118) and in January 2010, it was voted the best game ever in Famitsu's reader poll."


Edit: XII actually did spectacular too, but seeing as they had already entered the PS3 era when FFXII was released, it just made more sense to turn their FFXIII into their shining star.

Ayen
11-02-2013, 09:18 PM
It didn't pull me in and was largely unforgettable except for a few areas. What I can't figure out is why this game is getting so much attention from Square and another sequel after XIII-2.

It did better in Japan than it did here. It did really well there.

Final Fantasy XIII - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XIII)

"Final Fantasy XIII received generally positive reviews. It was rated 39 out of 40 by the Japanese gaming magazine Famitsu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famitsu).[103] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XIII#cite_note-FAMITSUreview-103) Dengeki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dengeki_PlayStation) praised the game for the battle system, stating that the battles are by far the most exciting in the series, and concluded Final Fantasy XIII deserved a score of 120, as 100 would not be enough.[117] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XIII#cite_note-Dengeki-117) The game was voted as the second best game of 2009 in Dengeki Online's reader poll,[118] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XIII#cite_note-DENGEKIreview-118) and in January 2010, it was voted the best game ever in Famitsu's reader poll."

..........
All right, cultural differences.

Elskidor
11-02-2013, 09:33 PM
I just bought FFXIII-2, and I'm planning on retrying FFXIII again, and giving XIII-2 a try in hopes I was just being too negative the first go around. I also didn't care too much for X until years after it's release so I'm hoping I was just being a overly judgmental a-hole about XIII in 2010.

I know Japanese and Western audiences of Final Fantasy can differ on certain games, but I wouldn't mind reading reviews from Japan critics. FFXIII falls pretty low on the list of Final Fantasy favorites from critics and fans out west. Critics and fans of these lists match up kinda close to one another.

Critics on their Debut Systems. Gamerankings.com


Final Fantasy VI SNES 93.96%
Final Fantasy IX PS 93.32%
Final Fantasy VII PS 92.35%
Final Fantasy X PS2 91.73%
Final Fantasy XII PS2 90.77%
Final Fantasy IV SNES 90.00%
Final Fantasy VIII PS 89.17%
Final Fantasy XI PS2 85.13%
Final Fantasy XIII PS3 84.15%
Final Fantasy V GBA 82.45%
Final Fantasy Origins II's PS 80.64%
Final Fantasy XIV PC 80.50%
Final Fantasy III DS 77.83%




Final Fantasy I NES Can not find an official NES critics review 1987






IGN Community Voted


Final Fantasy VI 9.4%/Final Fantasy VII 9.4%
Final Fantasy X 9.3%
Final Fantasy IX 9.1%
Final Fantasy IV 9.0%
Final Fntasy VIII 8.9%/Final Fantasy XII 8.9%
Final Fantasy I 8.7%/Final Fantasy V 8.7
Final Fantasy XIII 8.5%
Final Fantasy III 8.4%
Final Fantasy XI 8.2%
Final Fantasy II 7.8
Final Fantasy XIV 6.2% (Wondering if this has been updated since the re-release.)

Jessweeee♪
11-13-2013, 02:37 AM
FFXIII is one of my favorites ever. But there are definitely some things wrong with it. I think in short the plot involved too much telling (mostly in the form of datalogs) and not enough showing. Also everything that happens after the final boss is kind of what.

I loved the characters. I think Snow gets a worse rep than he deserves among the fans. His story is all about what it means to be a protector. NORA presents themselves like some kind of local militia, but really they're rebels without a cause. They're just a bunch of kids with guns and have no real combat experience. They fend off approaching wildlife from the town, but in Cocoon you don't even get much of that. Suddenly the government tries to exterminate all citizens and visitors to Bodhum and instead of being angry at this injustice they're actually excited to have a chance at real heroism. Snow is thinking he's gonna be a big damn hero and swoop in, save the girl, and get all the glory but he is not prepared to deal with the responsibility of protecting lives. This is why he's Lightning's least favorite person ever. She had to raise both Serah and herself when was fifteen and joined the guard so she could protect Serah and put food on their table. Lightning has seen battle, and she knows what it means to be responsible for another human being, and now the weird neighbor kid that has real ninja stars and learned to throw them says he is capable of taking care of her sister. But yeah, shit gets real, he gets punched in the face and blown up and falls long distances, he gets yelled at. Once he acknowledges and accepts the burden of being a protector he gains the respect of Lightning and Hope. He's not my favorite character in the FFXIII series, but he's more than he gets credit for P:

Freya
11-29-2013, 06:06 AM
I just figured out why people didnt like this game. The victory fanfare is hardly like its self. :colbert: That's my reasoning.

Sephiroth
11-29-2013, 12:24 PM
I just figured out why people didnt like this game. The victory fanfare is hardly like its self. :colbert: That's my reasoning.

It returns sounding classic in Final Fantasy XIII-3 when you finish a sidequest.

Freya
11-30-2013, 12:07 AM
Sweeeet That is my favorite thing about the FF games (i know that sounds lame) The victory fanfare just wasn't recognizable enough in the first two XIII entries. Glad it's back!

Mirage
11-30-2013, 12:07 AM
The different victory fanfare didn't bother me at all.

jlenoconel
12-11-2013, 07:32 PM
I've given this game a second chance and I'll say its not quite as bad as I originally thought. Its extremely linear which is pretty bad, but the combat and everything is cool. The linearity wouldn't have been so bad if had just been confined to certain parts of the game e.g. "dungeons." On the whole though, the lack of variety in choosing ones path is probably the biggest downfall of FFXIII, especially when other RPGs like Fallout and The Elder Scrolls are so much about variety. Anyway, back to the good points. I really did enjoy the combat system, and part of me did appreciate what Square Enix were trying to do by having a more streamlined experience. FFXIII really wasn't anymore linear than Call of Duty, so I don't see how people can say that XIII is a bad game yet COD is awesome.

I think in the future that Final Fantasy needs to avoid making such a linear game. It might also be time to do away with turn based combat too. Active combat like in Skyrim is where RPGs are headed now, so Final Fantasy may be better off going into that kind of direction now. I wouldn't mind Final Fantasy having combat more like Metal Gear Solid actually. That would be cool.

Del Murder
12-11-2013, 07:34 PM
I totally agree that the lack of variety is the downfall. I'd be fine with the linearity if there was plenty to do in the game. But it is literally 'run, fight, cutscene' for 95% of it. And the only major sidequest is either a tedious grind (weapon upgrading) or just more fighting (mark hunts).

The battle system, story, characters, design are all not perfect but they are decent enough. The problem is that there is just not a lot to this game in terms of how you play it.

jlenoconel
12-12-2013, 05:42 PM
I just bought FFXIII-2, and I'm planning on retrying FFXIII again, and giving XIII-2 a try in hopes I was just being too negative the first go around. I also didn't care too much for X until years after it's release so I'm hoping I was just being a overly judgmental a-hole about XIII in 2010.

I know Japanese and Western audiences of Final Fantasy can differ on certain games, but I wouldn't mind reading reviews from Japan critics. FFXIII falls pretty low on the list of Final Fantasy favorites from critics and fans out west. Critics and fans of these lists match up kinda close to one another.

Critics on their Debut Systems. Gamerankings.com


Final Fantasy VI SNES 93.96%
Final Fantasy IX PS 93.32%
Final Fantasy VII PS 92.35%
Final Fantasy X PS2 91.73%
Final Fantasy XII PS2 90.77%
Final Fantasy IV SNES 90.00%
Final Fantasy VIII PS 89.17%
Final Fantasy XI PS2 85.13%
Final Fantasy XIII PS3 84.15%
Final Fantasy V GBA 82.45%
Final Fantasy Origins II's PS 80.64%
Final Fantasy XIV PC 80.50%
Final Fantasy III DS 77.83%




Final Fantasy I NES Can not find an official NES critics review 1987






IGN Community Voted


Final Fantasy VI 9.4%/Final Fantasy VII 9.4%
Final Fantasy X 9.3%
Final Fantasy IX 9.1%
Final Fantasy IV 9.0%
Final Fntasy VIII 8.9%/Final Fantasy XII 8.9%
Final Fantasy I 8.7%/Final Fantasy V 8.7
Final Fantasy XIII 8.5%
Final Fantasy III 8.4%
Final Fantasy XI 8.2%
Final Fantasy II 7.8
Final Fantasy XIV 6.2% (Wondering if this has been updated since the re-release.)

I personally think that III and V, especially V, are better games than XIII. XIII is my overall least favorite in the series, although this still doesn't make it a "bad" game persay. That's probably a testament to the quality of Final Fantasy on the whole, that it is very hard for the series to have a truly bad game.

Juzie
12-14-2013, 07:26 PM
Historically if you look at the most popular FF games, (VI and VII and IX) and the least popular post-NES (X-2, XIII and V) I think that it starts to become clear what people want in an FF game, even if I think XIII is one of the best, the reason people love VI and VII are because they are easy games at their core but have fantastic exploration in rich worlds full of lifelike NPCs (for their time). The games with far superior gameplay over them (V and X-2) are less popular and lack these things, XIII fits right next to them when you consider this. Perhaps if these games were titled something else and people bought them without expecting exploration and whatnot, they would have much better reception. As it is, some people have already gone back to all 3 with different expectations and found out they really loved the games they just weren't "good FF games".

Niale
12-14-2013, 07:30 PM
I think Hope (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Hope_Estheim)and Lightning (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Lightning_%28Final_Fantasy_XIII%29)was the coolest in the group though.

But yeah it was alright, sorta neutral on this game but, it got really fun when the side quests came along on.
"Gran Pulse" (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Gran_Pulse) And you got to fight alot of monsters.

So at that point i was starting to enjoy the game with the "Stagger" (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Stagger) mode.
The game was alright. ;)

I think the newer generation will like it.
There's a game for each generation.

Calliope
02-17-2014, 09:14 PM
As someone who had never played through a FF game before, this took most of the work out of it - I liked the paradigm shifts, and that because there was nowhere to explore, I didn't get lost. I presume that this means it is a terrible game, and I don't mind.

Of the characters, I liked Sazh, was indifferent to Lightning; and disliked everyone else. The battles seems to drag on for way too long, particularly the Orphan battles. Nothing happened, it just took a really long time - one of them was over 20 minutes! For me, most of the last chapter was difficult to play in that there were too many random flashing lights and things shifting, and the whole "random entities creating portals and shifting platforms around" didn't really serve any purpose.

Sephiroth
02-17-2014, 09:38 PM
Final Fantasy XIII was very linear but that would not have been the problem, just the lack of options in general, some extra sidequests, some NPCs, no visible monsters on linear roads and Final Fantasy XIII-2 has causality paradoxes that would never actually occur, Final Fantasy XIII-3 has some plot holes as well but when I look at so many flawed aspects of the other Final Fantasys I can accept them as that is just normal. The most important things for me are wonderful.

escobert
02-18-2014, 03:09 AM
So I've never played this one but, in the first few posts I see people talking about how X is so much better for x reasons. God no... X is the worst piece of crap I ever put into my PS2 so if that is the case then this must be the worst game ever made :(

Bolivar
02-18-2014, 03:21 AM
I've started to look at this game in a slightly different light after my last FFVII playthrough (unfinished). I noticed how VII had you going through story scenarios in unique locations one after another, as opposed to the traditional RPG - 1) go to town, 2) go to dungeon, 3) find next town, 4) repeat. I can see more of the pedigree of why FFXIII came out the way it did, tracing its lineage back to what FFVII did for the genre.

Admittedly, there is a plethora of problems in the execution, but I do appreciate what the game was trying to do a bit more now.

Spuuky
02-18-2014, 06:05 AM
No, you see, that makes me remember that I hate Final Fantasy VII for "what it did for the genre." Final Fantasy VII itself is a good game, but it's despite a lot of the things in the game, not because of them - and they have continuously extended all the wrong parts of it over time. The result is this.

I will say that FFXIII has the worst final dungeon design of any RPG I've ever played. And I've played a lot of RPGs. Overall, the game suffers from a lot of the exact same problems (down to combat feel, story choices, pretentiousness, everything) that plagued Xenosaga Episode 2. I can expand on this point for anyone interested, but it's not really relevant here.

escobert
02-18-2014, 03:30 PM
To much cut sceneness?

Mirage
02-18-2014, 06:08 PM
So I've never played this one but, in the first few posts I see people talking about how X is so much better for x reasons. God no... X is the worst piece of crap I ever put into my PS2 so if that is the case then this must be the worst game ever made :(

In some aspects it is, in others it isn't. That's what the "X-reasons" detail out i guess.

Spuuky
02-18-2014, 07:22 PM
To much cut sceneness?No. That's one of the only things that wasn't a problem with Xenosaga Episode 2.

Bolivar
02-18-2014, 07:26 PM
No, you see, that makes me remember that I hate Final Fantasy VII for "what it did for the genre." Final Fantasy VII itself is a good game, but it's despite a lot of the things in the game, not because of them - and they have continuously extended all the wrong parts of it over time. The result is this.

I will say that FFXIII has the worst final dungeon design of any RPG I've ever played. And I've played a lot of RPGs. Overall, the game suffers from a lot of the exact same problems (down to combat feel, story choices, pretentiousness, everything) that plagued Xenosaga Episode 2. I can expand on this point for anyone interested, but it's not really relevant here.

Xenogears final dungeon was far worse.

I can't join you with Square extending the wrong parts of the game over time since they made so many classic games since 1997.

NeoCracker
02-20-2014, 10:32 AM
Yeah, Xenogears has teh worst fucking final dungeon I have ever scene. :p

And I can definitely see where you are coming from with the Xenosaga 2 comparison, though I still hold that wasn't as bad a game as some people made it out to be. :p

Marionette Cherry
02-20-2014, 12:24 PM
I didn't mind this game.

It's not my favorite Final Fantasy, but it's not the worst. I never really understood the linear complaint since most Final Fantasy games are go from point A to point B to advance the story. I think most people just missed the towns you could kill some time in and get see some world building by interacting with characters.

Anyways, doubt I'll replay it any time soon. I'm having fun with its sequel though.

magemasher
02-22-2014, 08:09 PM
I didn't hate the game but I had a lot of issues with it. I didn't have to get involved with it to progress with the story, for example I could surf the net or play another game on the laptop whilst running the endless corridor of ff13( I love the way the bit before the last fight is a corridor GSOH SE) I liked it though it wasn't very engaging. Other little gripes were Snow and Hope but you can't like everyone right?

Fynn
02-25-2014, 12:19 PM
I didn't hate the game but I had a lot of issues with it. I didn't have to get involved with it to progress with the story, for example I could surf the net or play another game on the laptop whilst running the endless corridor of ff13( I love the way the bit before the last fight is a corridor GSOH SE) I liked it though it wasn't very engaging. Other little gripes were Snow and Hope but you can't like everyone right?

You can if your writer isn't an inept hack.

NeoCracker
02-25-2014, 04:28 PM
I find it hard to like all the player characters in most RPGs, I can think of almost no exceptions to this outside of two games. :p

The problem with 13 was most of the cast was dull and unlikable, not just a couple people.

Skyblade
02-25-2014, 04:37 PM
I find it hard to like all the player characters in most RPGs, I can think of almost no exceptions to this outside of two games. :p

Let me guess, both of those games were made by ATLUS?

NeoCracker
02-26-2014, 07:16 AM
One of them is. :p