Milk (Cow's Milk): Good or Bad?

[noxious.sunshine]

Discuss.

I've grown up - like most other people have - that milk, from a cow, helps prevent Osteoporosis and is a good source of Calcium.

But then, while having a debate with someone about whether or not having a glass of wine while being pregnant is ok, they brought up this point. And I'd never thought of it like this before..

She said: I bet you're going to defend the practice of drinking Cow's Milk, aren't you?

Well. I don't really drink milk period and if I -do-, it's soy milk (which is also a rarity). I'm just not a fan of milk at all. I try not to give it to my daughter (I give her water or severely watered-down all natural juices instead), but in some cases, it just can't be helped. And yes, I told her this.

But anyway, she said: "Think about it... We are the only mammals that willingly drink milk that comes from another animal. Others will do it if it's a life or death situation" (like a cat who nurses newborn puppies or a mama goat that gets milked to feed the baby lamb whose mother wouldn't nurse it).

I haven't done -too- much research, but what I have read says that drinking Cow's milk actually accelerates Osteoporosis as opposed to fighting it off. I can pull up websites if needed, but I just wanted to throw this out there and see what happens.

Thoughts?

[Jinx]

I'm too lazy to find articles, but from what I understand, cow's milk is extremely bad for you. It's full of hormones and bacteria.

[Raistlin]

It seems that criticizing cow's milk is becoming more trendy these days. But the only sources I've seen do it are, well, dubious at best (http://www.naturalnews.com/025258_milk_health_dairy.html), with loads of unsourced claims. The actual experts (http://www.livescience.com/36512-experts-explain-milk-health-benefits-risks.html) who reference specific nutrients in milk still seem to widely accept it as healthy, and definitely a good thing for children.

I'm open to studies and experts who make contrary claims, but until I hear more legitimate sources, the anti-milk movement seems to be more junk food science.

[Flaming Ice]

Apparently milk has growth hormones in it because the cows are constantly getting pregnant or something like that. The growth hormone is in there to help the cows' offspring of course.



It's how we treat the cows that makes milk worse/better for you because milk isn't supposed to be bad all on it's own.


Probably another big issue with milk is the 12 gr of lactose. Some people can't digest lactose properly and when you add that 12 grams up with breakfast cereals and whatnot that kids eat in the morning you add a bunch more sugar in the diet.

[Slothy]

It seems that criticizing cow's milk is becoming more trendy these days. But the only sources I've seen do it are, well, dubious at best (http://www.naturalnews.com/025258_milk_health_dairy.html), with loads of unsourced claims. The actual experts (http://www.livescience.com/36512-experts-explain-milk-health-benefits-risks.html) who reference specific nutrients in milk still seem to widely accept it as healthy, and definitely a good thing for children.

I'm open to studies and experts who make contrary claims, but until I hear more legitimate sources, the anti-milk movement seems to be more junk food science.

Yeah, most of the stuff thrown around doesn't seem to have much research backing it up that I've seen.

That first link you posted is pure gold though. Pasteurizing milk kills nutrients including Calcium? I wasn't aware you could kill an element from the periodic table. The process is meant to kill bacteria and potential pathogens. Heating up the milk isn't going to do squat to calcium.

And the claims about osteoporosis in that article, aren't really true. Fact is, the typical western diet pushes the bodies ph balance more into the acidic range than it's comfortable with, and it will use calcium to keep it in a range that won't kill you, even if it has to leach it from the bones. It's not so much a case of milk not preventing osteoporosis, as the rest of people's diet actively making it worse over long periods of time. Don't even get me started on the heart disease claim.

[Flaming Ice]

The problem with "food science" is that there are always new claims coming out/being made and something new is always being discovered "eat this food over that" months later "new research shows this statement is incorrect"



You have to mostly find out what is good for you but stick to general guidelines (like low sugar lots of veggies).

[noxious.sunshine]

Like I said before, I haven't looked up a whole lot to back up this claim, but this particular article stood out to me:

Cow's Milk is Bad for Humans (http://www.waoy.org/9.html)

I just wanted opinions.

[Raistlin]

That article is a perfect example of a highly dubious source. The experts are one nutty doctor who claimed that milk can lead to juvenile delinquency (:lol:), and then mostly a bunch of "alternative medicine practitioners" (a chiropractor? Really?) and cherry-picking studies while distorting their actual conclusions. For instance, it states:


A 1992 report in The New England Journal of Medicine also notes that cow's milk can contribute to juvenile diabetes and autoimmune diseases by impairing the ability of the pancreas to produce insulin.

The actual paper (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199207303270502?query=nextarrow&) noted a correlation between components of cow's milk and diabetes. That is only one step in the scientific process for determining causation. Also note that the paper cited is over 20 years old, and that is the most recent paper cited. The article also makes no mention of studies that reached the opposite conclusion (http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=407096). And more recent studies show that children who avoid cow's milk altogether face their own health risks (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002822303015384) unless their diet is balanced out to get the beneficial nutrients from other sources.

There may be some potential negative consequences to little kids drinking tons of milk. But there are unquestionable benefits for those kids having milk and getting plenty of calcium. If you want to be safe, having limits on milk and having other sources of calcium in a child's diet may be the way to go. But I have yet to see much in the way of persuasive evidence that milk is something to be completely avoided altogether.

[Shorty]

From a philosophical perspective, I think it's unnatural that humans consume milk after infancy as we are the only other mammal to do so on the planet. But I really don't give a trout, people can do what they want.

I'm lactose intolerant and generally dislike the taste of milk as it is unless it is following some super sweet chocolate cake. But I will drink my lattes and eat cheese and ice cream and knowingly pay for it because if you can't have lattes and cheese and ice cream, what's the point of living?

[Flaming Ice]

From a philosophical perspective, I think it's unnatural that humans consume milk after infancy as we are the only other mammal to do so on the planet. But I really don't give a trout, people can do what they want.

I'm lactose intolerant and generally dislike the taste of milk as it is unless it is following some super sweet chocolate cake. But I will drink my lattes and eat cheese and ice cream and knowingly pay for it because if you can't have lattes and cheese and ice cream, what's the point of living?


http://progressivepeach.typepad.com/.a/6a011168476f8c970c0133f4d922bc970b-300wi




But an argument on whether something is natural to consume or not doesn't get far with the "north american diet" I suppose. So much sugar and other garbage that spoil our bodies.



Perhaps organic milk is better too.....not quite sure on that one.

[Pike]

"Think about it... We are the only mammals that willingly drink milk that comes from another animal."

We're also the only mammals who have sent people to the moon, developed a worldwide communication network, discovered life-saving medicines and vaccines and, from a food standpoint, learned about agriculture and farming. Not a valid reason in and of itself to avoid anything IMO.

I'm not a nutrition expert but the bulk of everything I've ever read about the nutrition of milk is positive. Anything negative that I've ever read has come straight from places like PETA and so forth. I'm more than willing to be proven wrong but I'm gonna need a lot of evidence.

[Madame Adequate]

Yeah I've never heard a serious source saying milk is bad for you.

[Flaming Ice]

I'm not a nutrition expert but the bulk of everything I've ever read about the nutrition of milk is positive. Anything negative that I've ever read has come straight from places like PETA and so forth. I'm more than willing to be proven wrong but I'm gonna need a lot of evidence.



As far as I know it's healthier now too...I mostly read various articles but one mentioned different hormones and antibiotics given to cows, I believe they are both banned now.

[Raistlin]

Pike: YES. For some reason I completely forgot to rebut that silly argument, but you hit the nail on the head. Humans are the only species to do a lot of things; some of them are bad, but others are the reasons our lifespan has doubled. The fact that it isn't "natural" is meaningless by itself.

[Shorty]

But an argument on whether something is natural to consume or not doesn't get far with the "north american diet" I suppose. So much sugar and other garbage that spoil our bodies.

I dislike the umbrella argument of "nothing about North America or society is natural now so you should just accept it otherwise you're a hypocrite" argument. :p I dislike personally using birth control because I don't think it's natural, either, but that's an entirely different argument.

[Flaming Ice]

I dislike the umbrella argument of "nothing about North America or society is natural now so you should just accept it otherwise you're a hypocrite" argument. :p I dislike personally using birth control because I don't think it's natural, either, but that's an entirely different argument.



Well at least things are getting much better as you can get more organic and natural products. .....I guess you have to do what you have to do. We have so many more people living now so we need whatever sources we can get for food and what-not.

[Chris]

Best thing to eat ever!

http://img1.nairaland.com/attachments/194221_Nestle-Nido-Milk-Powder-Big_gifc8eef1726224b79eb93e6c9deb9d4fae

[Jinx]

Yeah, fuck PETA.

[Quindiana Jones]

It's demonstrably fine.

[noxious.sunshine]

Best thing to eat ever!

http://img1.nairaland.com/attachments/194221_Nestle-Nido-Milk-Powder-Big_gifc8eef1726224b79eb93e6c9deb9d4fae

Are you sure you're not Messcan?

[Jinx]

I wonder why it's not more socially acceptable to drink breast milk forever. Like, if it's in a cup or whatever. I'm pretty sure if you drank breast milk from 1000 different women you'd become immune to everything.

This is the key to human immortality.

[noxious.sunshine]

I wonder why it's not more socially acceptable to drink breast milk forever. Like, if it's in a cup or whatever. I'm pretty sure if you drank breast milk from 1000 different women you'd become immune to everything.

This is the key to human immortality.

Because I don't want DD/E Size breasts for the rest of my life.

Plus J-Woww & Snooki & their boyfriends tried Snooki's breast milk on "Snooki & JWoww" and their reaction to it wasn't good.

Although I do agree with you on the immune thing 100%. Hence the reason I haven't put my daughter on an all-organic diet with free range chicken and organic veggies. She's not gonna be able to eat completely organic 100% of the time and I don't want her to develop an allergy to "Lake Blue 5" and whatnot.

[Depression Moon]

Drinking animal milk has been downplayed for hundreds of year. I know at least with Africa it was looked down upon for the longest and when they were exposed to it a lot of them had intolerance to it, probably due to no exposure to it whatsoever.

[The Summoner of Leviathan]

People do realize that milk straight from the cow taste vastly different from the milk you pull out of your fridge, right? Aside from it being warm, I am also told it taste kinda "beefy" (friend currently working in a very rural area and has milked cows for the school she teaches at). So it is kinda natural that unprocessed human breast milk would taste nasty. Though there are some places where you can buy ice cream made from breast milk (milk is processed to the quality of stuff found in hospitals)!

Also, why we do not regularly consume breast milk? Think about what lactation means and how the dairy industry works...Think about it. Now think about how we would have to do for humans to produce that much milk. Small amounts would be humanely possible but for large amounts that come anywhere near the cow milk/dairy industry would raise highly ethical questions.

Heck, people question the ethics of the dairy industry itself but that is a whole other topic for discussion.

[noxious.sunshine]

Also... My poor back couldn't sustain this. I would wind up needing surgery... Oh wait. I already do. Just not for my back.

[Mirage]

From a philosophical perspective, I think it's unnatural that humans consume milk after infancy as we are the only other mammal to do so on the planet. But I really don't give a trout, people can do what they want.

We're the only mammal that does it because we're the only mammal that can do it. I'm sure cats would farm the trout out of cows too if they had opposable thumbs and lactose tolerance :p.

Then again, I don't really buy most "it's not natural" arguments. Our bodies evolved to tolerate lactose (well, some of us), and therefore milk is a perfectly natural source of nutrition for those individuals that have tolerance for it. If we can extract nutrition from something without getting sick in the process, I think it's as natural for us to consume as it can get.

I can drink like several liters of milk in an hour before my body starts having problems creating enough lactase enzymes :).

As a side note about the pasteurization idiocy earlier, I've met people who thought homogenization also killed off nutritions in milk. That is some crazy stuff to believe if you ask me.

As someone who grew up on a dairy farm, I can tell you that unprocessed cow milk tastes nearly exactly the same as the whole milk you buy in stores, when at the same temperature. As for warm milk, that's not really my thing, but there are people who like really hot milk, like just boiling it and then putting it in a cup for consumption. It probably depends on what you're used to.

[Shorty]

As a side note about the pasteurization idiocy earlier, I've met people who thought homogenization also killed off nutritions in milk. That is some crazy stuff to believe if you ask me.

My mom and I were just arguing about this the other day. Here is a post I made in staff:


I am lactose-intolerant and so is my mother. She's been buying organic cow's milk straight from the cow - not homogenized or processed or anything. It comes in jars. Jars. Jars. I told her I can't drink it because - and she knows this, because she is as well - I am lactose intolerant.

Cue her trying to tell me that I'm intolerant of all of the chemicals and hormones that are in the milk from being processed and not the milk itself.

Cue me telling her that no, human beings are not evolved to drink milk all their lives, that my body is especially not tolerant of it and that it's not natural because no other living creature still drinks milk after infancy.

Cue her telling me to not try to educate her about this stuff because she works for a homeopathic doctor and thus knows all.

I still drink milk (lattes) even though it makes me sick and I suck it up and I don't give a trout about people drinking milk. But I fail to see how drinking totally pure and non-processed or homogenized milk will be better for me as a lactose intolerant person, which is what her stupid point was. :colbert:

[Mirage]

On a positive note, you can still eat most solid cheeses, because almost all lactose is consumed in the cheesification process and you're often just left with trace amounts of lactose.

[Shorty]

Cheese I'm fine with, mostly, unless it's an outrageous amount.

[Mirage]

The fresher the cheese is, the more lactose it'll usually have. But maybe you already know this, seeing as you have lactose intolerance and probably have done some research already.

It could have been worse though, you could have been allergic to milk proteins. That would make you react to things like butter as well, and all cheeses,even in small amounts.

[Psychotic]

I grewed up drankering the cow's fluids and I turning out to be the smartest of all EoFFers (this not great achieverting though) so is all good.

[noxious.sunshine]

Lol.. my boyfriend cannot eat cheese. It gives him rly bad gas.

[Flaming Ice]

I grewed up drankering the cow's fluids and I turning out to be the smartest of all EoFFers (this not great achieverting though) so is all good.



(psst we're talking about the white stuff, not the yellow)

[Mirage]

Lol.. my boyfriend cannot eat cheese. It gives him rly bad gas.

He should install a wind turbine and use it to charge his phone.

[noxious.sunshine]

Lol.. my boyfriend cannot eat cheese. It gives him rly bad gas.

He should install a wind turbine and use it to charge his phone.

Lulz wut?