ATTN: SE, Re: Final Fantasy

[Spooniest]

(WARNING! WARNING! RANTBOT ACTIVATED! BIASES DETECTED! DANGER, WILL ROBINSON!)

Where I live (Nashville, TN), if I mention Final Fantasy to anyone, I get a blank stare. If I try to explain further, it causes only more bewilderment.

If it is your desire to expand the user base of the franchise beyond what it is now, then I have a few suggestions. Granted, this may not be your desire...you may be content to simply restrict yourselves to whoever you're marketing to right now, but I think I speak for everyone here when I say that the series as a whole has a universally appealing message at its heart; the way you are presenting it is interfering with that message's dissemination.

The universally appealing message that Final Fantasy espouses from its very humble beginning is not complicated or hard to explain, and it isn't something that you in the land where the sun rises won't understand.

One word: hope.

Now hope is not a difficult concept for people to understand. Even a small child hopes for things. But it is a difficult concept to convey within visual media. When someone is participating in visual media (movies, or more relevant here, video games), you don't want to engage their conscious mind as much as you want to engage them on an instinctive, visceral level.

When you present a story as supplemental material, rather than making it the "spinal cord" of the gameplay itself, you are doing what director Nicholas Meyer refers to as "bouncing your viewer out of the picture." You are hurting the believability of what your player is experiencing. You are taking away from the fantasy.

Additionally, I get it that you have a computer that could end my computer's existence forever. But these two points sum up my view:

1) You can't go wrong with a little black dress.

Final Fantasy seems like a woman showing up for lunch with a friend in a bridesmaid's outfit. It's overdressed.

2) Less is more.

You have the capability of producing representational art in the framework of a computer program. Why limit yourself to Realism? You can do so much more with art than simply attempt to portray things as they appear to be. The definition of Impressionism that I heard was "art that attempts to portray things not as they appear, but as they really are."

I have a deep, sincere love for the body of work that this series has produced. There have been times when it has been my only entertainment. It has influenced how I've come to view the world. It has illuminated aspects of identity, psychology, and metaphysics to me. You can do a lot more with it than you're doing, with a lot less effort. You're trying too hard.

Harve Bennett said, in the book Star Trek Movie Memories (pp. 301-302), concerning the production of Star Trek V: The Final Frontier:


...The biggest problems I had during the early stages of this picture had to do with [William Shatner's] appetite. [He was] coming into the situation, as a first-time director, determined that [he was] going to reinvent the wheel and make a real directorial statement. [...] When that happens, the tendency is for the director to to start biting off more than he'll be able to chew. You start thinking too big, B-I-G, big. [...] [Shatner] wanted big, complex shots, [he] wanted big things, [he] wanted things that were going to cost money. [He] wanted stuff that would take time. My job was to keep [his] enthusiasm and [his] appetites from going over a line of practicality.

And, as The Dread Pirate Roberts said, in The Princess Bride:

"Please understand, I hold you in the highest respect."

~ Spoons

[Jinx]

I really don't have any numbers, so what I'm saying is based on the observation of a small group of people I know both online and offline. I don't know if there are any new fans these days (or rather, if the amount of new fans of the series is enough to recognize as actual growth), but I know that old fans are less likely to introduce people to the series. Why? It's become downright embarrassing to play. They focus on visuals instead of what made the game great--story. There's something really shameful about introducing someone to the series and having them play the games that are all flash and no heart. Things like the repeated use of Lightning are embarrassing as well. Not to mention the mess with a 7 year development time for FFvsXIII that ultimately turned into FFXV. So instead of getting two games, we now get one game.

The series has lost its soul, and unless it can find it again, I think it's going to steadily decline. A lot of older fans don't and won't play the most recent games in the series. However, I know a lot of fans are really looking forward to FFXV and believe it might be just what the series needs. The problem is, just from things I've read and whatnot (actual articles) the developers and company owners really don't care about what fans what, but what they themselves want. It's very sad, and if they don't learn, then they're probably going to shoot themselves in the foot. That's not to say that everything the customer says is right, but when you have so many people saying, "WE'RE TIRED OF SEEING LIGHTNING STAHP" and they respond with "NO WE LOVE HER AND SO WILL YOU"...I think things like that hurt the morale of the fans, and make them feel that SE really doesn't care and just wants their dollars.

Also--

http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww276/HinakuraUchiha/Final%20Fantasy%20XIII/Hope.png (http://media.photobucket.com/user/HinakuraUchiha/media/Final%20Fantasy%20XIII/Hope.png.html)

[Bolivar]

So you didn't like XIII. Welcome to the franchise.

Were you in the forums when XII came out? X still gets put on trial as a war crime against humanity to this day. 7, 8, and 9 are all incredibly divisive games. I can guarantee you when your favorite Final Fantasy came out a lot of longtime fans didn't like it. I need to ask: when was this magical time when Square was in control of its vision and knew what its fans wanted?

I understand this is more of a caution against XV but for real: chill. The game isn't out yet. I dislike action RPGs as a rule but I'm willing to give it a shot.

And whether you like it or not, Square has always been about cutting edge graphics and always will be. They were making 3d games on the Famicom for crying out loud.

[Jinx]

So you didn't like XIII. Welcome to the franchise.

Were you in the forums when XII came out? X still gets put on trial as a war crime against humanity to this day. 7, 8, and 9 are all incredibly divisive games. I can guarantee you when your favorite Final Fantasy came out a lot of longtime fans didn't like it. I need to ask: when was this magical time when Square was in control of its vision and knew what its fans wanted?

I understand this is more of a caution against XV but for real: chill. The game isn't out yet. I dislike action RPGs as a rule but I'm willing to give it a shot.

And whether you like it or not, Square has always been about cutting edge graphics and always will be. They were making 3d games on the Famicom for crying out loud.

Dude, my post wasn't even about my personal preferences, but what I've seen tons of people saying. Also, I'm extremely excited about FFXV, I don't know where you got the idea that I wasn't.

[Spooniest]

Regarding XV specifically...

I saw one shot of a group of people standing in V formation toward a camera that was tilted to one side. They looked like Bryan Singer's X-Men.

That's all I know. I'm not going to spoil it for myself.

[Jinx]

All I'm saying is I actually tried to give a constructive post on why I think (from a fan's perspective) they've been having issues, and I'm still called out as being snarky.

I've never even played FFXIII. :p

[Sephex]

So you didn't like XIII. Welcome to the franchise.

Were you in the forums when XII came out? X still gets put on trial as a war crime against humanity to this day. 7, 8, and 9 are all incredibly divisive games. I can guarantee you when your favorite Final Fantasy came out a lot of longtime fans didn't like it. I need to ask: when was this magical time when Square was in control of its vision and knew what its fans wanted?

I understand this is more of a caution against XV but for real: chill. The game isn't out yet. I dislike action RPGs as a rule but I'm willing to give it a shot.

And whether you like it or not, Square has always been about cutting edge graphics and always will be. They were making 3d games on the Famicom for crying out loud.


Where did you get any of this from her original post?

[Bolivar]

I'm not sure if my mobile's having issues with the site, but my post was in response to Spoony's (well-delivered) letter to SE, and how their recent obsession with technical spectacle and realism is getting in the way of the core message of hope and fantasy.

This is that thread, right?

[Sephex]

Well, without directly quoting someone, it looked like you were responding to Jinx, especially given the fact that she ended her post with a picture of a FFXIII character. Though this is one of those situations that can be easily confused, so I am big enough to admit that I shouldn't have assumed that your reply was in direct response to her.

[Spuuky]

given the fact that she ended her post with a picture of a FFXIII character.Well, no, she didn't.

[Jinx]

given the fact that she ended her post with a picture of a FFXIII character.Well, no, she didn't.

...yes I did?

[Spuuky]

given the fact that she ended her post with a picture of a FFXIII character.Well, no, she didn't.

...yes I did?Really, that's a character from FFXIII and not Vaan from FFXII? They really need to work on their character designs.

[Jinx]

given the fact that she ended her post with a picture of a FFXIII character.Well, no, she didn't.

...yes I did?Really, that's a character from FFXIII and not Vaan from FFXII? They really need to work on their character designs.

Yeah, that's totally Hope from FFXIII. xD

[Bolivar]

Well, without directly quoting someone, it looked like you were responding to Jinx, especially given the fact that she ended her post with a picture of a FFXIII character. Though this is one of those situations that can be easily confused, so I am big enough to admit that I shouldn't have assumed that your reply was in direct response to her.

And I'm big enough to admit that's mighty big of you.

Sam I eagerly await your in-thread apology!

[Jinx]

I am sorry that all of you guys suck so much.



:heart:

[Pete for President]

Well written, Spooniest.

Jimquisition has some interesting points about this stuff. He's a little bit disgusting and tries to make everything sound just as important, but look past that and there is definitely some wisdom to be found. These are pretty good:
Damn Fine Coffee | Jimquisition Video Gallery | The Escapist (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7405-Damn-Fine-Coffee)
Guns Blazing | Jimquisition Video Gallery | The Escapist (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7340-Guns-Blazing)

Passion vs. marketing, this is. Consumers do not know what they want. Do not let them decide what you make. Let the artist let loose, give the crowd the chance to admire it, and leave the rest be.

Soul, is what we're looking for.

[Jowy]

When did I last start a Final Fantasy game and become instantly mesmerized? FFIX.

That was a loooooooooooong time ago. Step it up, guys. :aimsun:

[Loony BoB]

Remember when FFVIII got lambasted by everyone and their uncle for being rubbish? Remember when FFX got the same treatment (by me, too, no less)? XII got a lot of criticism, too. Even FFVI fans are quick to lambast FFVII when given the opportunity. Modern gamers look back at games like FFII and FFIII with disbelief that they could be seen as good games.

Final Fantasy is arguably never outdone when it comes to reinventing itself. Square, Squaresoft, Square Enix... they innovate in every Final Fantasy game they create. It's always something new, it's never the same.

Gamers who enjoy one Final Fantasy game might not enjoy another Final Fantasy game. We have so many previous Final Fantasy games that at the time of FFXIII's release, you had fans of twelve very different games with different stories, different characters, different leveling systems, different battle systems, different minigames, different worlds. At the time of FFXIII's release, more than ever, the fans of these very different games were able to communicate with each other online. The world is huge, now. Everyone has their opinions. When FFXIII was released, the people all were hoping for a game more like the one they enjoyed most from the previous series.

What they got was Final Fantasy XIII. Like it or not, it was a different game. It had a different story, different characters, a different leveling system, a different battle system, different (if few) minigames, different worlds. Those who wanted FFVII got FFXIII. Those who wanted FFVI got FFXIII. Those who wanted FFX got FFXIII. It was a new game, and it has divided opinion just like the Final Fantasy games before it (VIII, X, XII, etc) - only now, more than ever, there are enough people online who could get together and rant about how it wasn't the game they wanted, and downgrade the rating to fit their rage at such an occurance. Final Fantasy XIII still got a decent rating compared to many games, though. Because it picked up new fans - FFXIII fans - along with those fans of previous FF's that were happy enough to see the game for what it was rather than for which previous FF it was not.

In the end, Square Enix released a Final Fantasy game.

With FFXIV, they did the same, but they buggered it up because it was buggy and laggy as hell. These are things that are actually inexcusable - FFXIII had no bugs whatosever that I've known about.

Still, Square Enix - in the case of both games - innovated. They tried new things. Success or failure, they did what Call of Duty, Uncharted, Far Cry, Starcraft and others did not. They didn't take what they knew already worked in previous games and create more of the same. They made something new. They started from scratch and worked their way up, even creating a new engine for both games. Like it or not, Square Enix will do what very few other games in this industry do and try to shake things up.

People criticise Square Enix, but these same people also criticise the industry for a lack of innovation. Perhaps they need to consider exactly what they want out of the industry. More of the same, or something new? If you want more of the same, it's out there in bulk. If you want something new in an AAA title, you have to look to the few developers out there that have the money and the balls to create such a thing. Those developers include Square Enix.

Do I trust Square Enix? Like Spooniest quite rightly pointed out, I don't have to trust them, it's not about trust. If they make a game I don't like, it doesn't mean I'm going to not trust them. I mean, if one of you lot were to like a movie I thought was crap, that doesn't mean I'm going to think that all movies you like are crap. Likewise, if you like a movie I think is amazing, I'll bet that there is a movie out there that you like that I don't. These things happen. It's a matter of opinion.
Ironically I actually mentioned agreeing with you, Spooniest, in this old post of mine, yet on this occasion I feel you've switched your opinion. :p

[Spooniest]

Ironically I actually mentioned agreeing with you, Spooniest, in this old post of mine, yet on this occasion I feel you've switched your opinion. :p

I'm curious as to where that assertion has its roots. How does my letter (the original post in this topic) indicate trust for them, the people at SE, personally? If anything, it shows that I am counting on absolutely nothing.

I merely desire for the series to grow, to evolve, in much the same way it has been. I consider some of the choices made for FFXIII to be disconcerting.

[ShinGundam]

This is just a personal opinion, but if there's anything FF in particular have never needed more of, it's fan conjecture and "critical analysis".

[Quindiana Jones]

Felt it was pretty obvious who Bolivar was referring to, since his post makes no sense in response to TBs. ;)

I'll echo the general consensus that inevitably arises in threads like these; pretty much every FF has caused outrage in some capacity. More people have easier access to more loudspeakers now, so we hear about it more often, but it's all the same story. And as BoB said, I also have massive respect for SE for being one of the few developers out there with the balls to innovate and experiment. The only consistent theme in Final Fantasy is one of change, and it's brilliant because of this.

Also, anti-religious themes.

[Loony BoB]

Also, anti-religious themes.
More anti-organised religion. They have gods in FF's, but the people who claim to speak for them often... don't.