View Full Version : Vaan vs. Tidus - THUNDERDOME
There's a big ol' discussion about this going on in another thread (http://home.eyesonff.com/final-fantasy-xii/152010-am-i-going-nuts.html) and it was getting kind of muddled, so here's a fresh new thread for this debate to continue.
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060423052760/finalfantasy/images/e/e3/Tidus_artwork.jpg
VS.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4d/Vaan_RW.JPG
Tidus, no contest. Don't even get me started.
Psychotic
09-30-2013, 06:04 PM
What's the contest here? Who dresses like the biggest tit? Whose voice is the nasaliest? Best collarbones?
What's the contest here? Who dresses like the biggest tit? Whose voice is the nasaliest? Best collarbones?
All of the above, and more.
Shauna
09-30-2013, 06:10 PM
Vaan wins weirdest abs.
Madame Adequate
09-30-2013, 06:19 PM
Well one of them is a useless little ponce whilst Tidus is a fascinating and awesome character.
Well one of them is a useless little ponce whilst Tidus is a fascinating and awesome character.
I came here to say something like this. Tidus is a great character.
How was there even a debate?
Hollycat
09-30-2013, 06:31 PM
I have to agree. Tidus wins this one hands down.
Psychotic
09-30-2013, 06:32 PM
Well yes, but I think there is some debate because Vaan certainly has better collarbones. You must all surely see that.
Hollycat
09-30-2013, 06:46 PM
Well yes, but I think there is some debate because Vaan certainly has better collarbones. You must all surely see that.
But can't you see that his shoulderblades are inferior?
Pete for President
09-30-2013, 07:07 PM
Well one of them is a useless little ponce whilst Tidus is a fascinating and awesome character.
I came here to say something like this. Tidus is a great character.
Agreed.
Karifean
09-30-2013, 07:20 PM
Yep, Tidus wins it for me.
Shauna
09-30-2013, 07:30 PM
I honestly do not remember many of the character nuances of anyone from FFXII, except from Bathier who was pretty suave. FFXII was great, but the plots and the characters were pushed into the background for all the endless wandering around.
Tidus is gr8, in my eyes.
Slothy
09-30-2013, 07:40 PM
Tidus is whiny and annoying, and the worst thing you can say about Vaan (abs aside) is that he's just kind of there and doesn't do a whole lot.
Give me someone who's incapable of being annoying because he didn't really do anything over someone who I wanted to see die for most of the game.
theundeadhero
09-30-2013, 08:13 PM
Tidus has way better collarbones.
Vaan's are all narrow and stick up out of his body like they're tall.
Jessweeee♪
10-01-2013, 12:56 AM
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdyvydzFLm1r06lbno1_1280.png
Tigmafuzz
10-01-2013, 01:55 AM
I don't like Vaan at all, but at least he's not Tidus.
Jessweeee♪
10-01-2013, 02:22 AM
http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5da36d2yx1qcmgy8o1_500.gif
Tidus is whiny and annoying, and the worst thing you can say about Vaan (abs aside) is that he's just kind of there and doesn't do a whole lot.
Give me someone who's incapable of being annoying because he didn't really do anything over someone who I wanted to see die for most of the game.
You effectively sell off any right to a decent story when you side with the character who is two dimensional and pointless. We might as well have controlled Montblanc sitting in the guild for all the relevance he had.
Jessweeee♪
10-01-2013, 02:50 AM
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me26og0zzg1r06lbno1_500.png
http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me26og0zzg1r06lbno2_500.png
Slothy
10-01-2013, 04:35 AM
Tidus is whiny and annoying, and the worst thing you can say about Vaan (abs aside) is that he's just kind of there and doesn't do a whole lot.
Give me someone who's incapable of being annoying because he didn't really do anything over someone who I wanted to see die for most of the game.
You effectively sell off any right to a decent story when you side with the character who is two dimensional and pointless. We might as well have controlled Montblanc sitting in the guild for all the relevance he had.
Not very relevant is always, ALWAYS, preferable to a character so awful he actively detracts from my ability to enjoy a game.
Skyblade
10-01-2013, 05:07 AM
Tidus is whiny and annoying, and the worst thing you can say about Vaan (abs aside) is that he's just kind of there and doesn't do a whole lot.
Give me someone who's incapable of being annoying because he didn't really do anything over someone who I wanted to see die for most of the game.
You effectively sell off any right to a decent story when you side with the character who is two dimensional and pointless. We might as well have controlled Montblanc sitting in the guild for all the relevance he had.
Not very relevant is always, ALWAYS, preferable to a character so awful he actively detracts from my ability to enjoy a game.
As a character, he isn't awful. He's annoying, yes. But his characterization is solid and generally well written.
Whenever they tried to give Vaan a personality or "issues", though, it always felt forced. Vaan never felt like a character to me. And I take far more issue with that than I do with annoyances. Heck, if annoying people were that problematic, I'd be upset at most of the world
Jessweeee♪
10-01-2013, 05:10 AM
Whenever they tried to give Vaan a personality or "issues", though, it always felt forced.
When did this happen :confused:
Skyblade
10-01-2013, 05:15 AM
Whenever they tried to give Vaan a personality or "issues", though, it always felt forced.
When did this happen :confused:
This scene:
How can he protect anything when he's dead? Was it different for Prince Rasler? Did that make sense? Hating the Empire, getting revenge.It's all I ever thought about. But I never did anything about it. I mean, I realized there was nothing I could do. It made me feel hollow, alone. And then I'd miss my brother. I'd say stuff like "I'm gonna be a sky pirate"... or some other stupid thing. Just anything to keep my mind off it. I was just - I was running away. I needed to get away from his death. That's why I followed you. Know what? I'm through with it. I'm through running. I'm ready to find my purpose. To find some real answers - some reasons. If I stick with you, I think I will.
My gosh was that scene horrible.
Seriously, who the frell talks like that?
And, frankly, admitting that everything he was doing was acting totally idiotically was not that in character. You can't be a stupid idiot for a hundred hours and then just suddenly realize and admit you're a stupid idiot. You need something to happen to trigger that sort of realization. Then you have to accept it, which is itself a lengthy journey. And THEN you can admit it. Once you've, y'know, actually grown up. You have to actually grow. Vaan never does, he just gets a "eureka" moment, which felt forced, and badly written.
On the plus side, it was memorable. I don't remember much of the individual lines of the script, but even though it's been years, I can still hear him saying
I'd say stuff like "I'm gonna be a sky pirate"... or some other stupid thing. It was badly written enough to stick with me. IT WILL NOT GO AWAY.
Freya
10-01-2013, 05:31 AM
But guysssss
http://31.media.tumblr.com/d8ecea513ebb06a3f834a4fc29bd3dd8/tumblr_mr7bleHRmu1qgxaowo1_500.gif
Jessweeee♪
10-01-2013, 05:34 AM
Whenever they tried to give Vaan a personality or "issues", though, it always felt forced.
When did this happen :confused:
This scene:
How can he protect anything when he's dead? Was it different for Prince Rasler? Did that make sense? Hating the Empire, getting revenge.It's all I ever thought about. But I never did anything about it. I mean, I realized there was nothing I could do. It made me feel hollow, alone. And then I'd miss my brother. I'd say stuff like "I'm gonna be a sky pirate"... or some other stupid thing. Just anything to keep my mind off it. I was just - I was running away. I needed to get away from his death. That's why I followed you. Know what? I'm through with it. I'm through running. I'm ready to find my purpose. To find some real answers - some reasons. If I stick with you, I think I will.
My gosh was that scene horrible.
Seriously, who the frell talks like that?
And, frankly, admitting that everything he was doing was acting totally idiotically was not that in character. You can't be a stupid idiot for a hundred hours and then just suddenly realize and admit you're a stupid idiot.
Sure you can, I do it like all the time! Especially when I was seventeen. Anyway I think this is actually a good scene showing how he's moving on and growing up. He's trying to get his shit together and help his peeps. Really this is the best opportunity a young Dalmascan from the slums can get I think :p
Skyblade
10-01-2013, 05:43 AM
But guysssss
http://31.media.tumblr.com/d8ecea513ebb06a3f834a4fc29bd3dd8/tumblr_mr7bleHRmu1qgxaowo1_500.gif
Square had to prove they could do something more annoying than the laughing scene.
Jessweeee♪
10-01-2013, 05:46 AM
They're both awesome.
Even if he is characterised well at some point, it's not relevant to the actual story. Vaan doesn't fit. His individual bildungsroman is not what we wanted and not what we were by and large given; I think of Vaan as I think of the Player Character in White Knight Chronicles: he's your avatar and is only there to be your viewpoint character.
Tidus might harp on about it being his story, and he might be wrong and it is Yuna's story, or all of their stories, but the point is that he's still relevant, and he still undergoes subtle and obvious changes, and there is actual agency from the character. Final Fantasy X is about the party going on a pilgrimage and stopping Sin. Final Fantasy XII is about... something? About the Occurria versus Vayne Solidor? It's not about the party, not really, as Vaan and Penelo are irrelevant, and Fran is only relevant because she has ties to Balthier.
Skyblade
10-01-2013, 05:49 AM
It's not about the party, not really, as Vaan and Penelo are irrelevant, and Fran is only relevant because she has ties to Balthier.
Penelo is relevant due to her relationship with Larsa. Not very relevant, but it's there.
Fran is there as miss exposition. If you need something explained, or someone to act completely bonkers due to an "instability in the Mist", she's your gal.
I will say though, in Vaan's defence, that he is far more relevant in Revenant Wings than Tidus is in X-2. Tidus is a fucking MacGuffin there.
Tigmafuzz
10-01-2013, 07:10 AM
But guysssss
http://31.media.tumblr.com/d8ecea513ebb06a3f834a4fc29bd3dd8/tumblr_mr7bleHRmu1qgxaowo1_500.gif
Most annoying part of the game, but still less annoying than Tidus's presence throughout the whole of FFX.
I'm going to have to hand it to Tidus as well. Primarily because I don't remember anything about Vaan because I quit FFXII halfway through out of sheer boredom.
Thus, regardless of how annoying Tidus is (and he doesn't annoy me very much), he at least has a personality that I can remember!
Loony BoB
10-01-2013, 05:05 PM
I'm with Vivi22 on this one. I mean, you can go on about "but a personality is good for the story!" all you like - I like to immerse myself in the story and if I immerse myself next to Tidus, I would want nothing more than for him to suffer an extremely bloody, extremely quick death. Quick because it would mean I have to spend less time looking at his annoying self, listening to his annoying self, and pretty much dealing with his annoying everything.
Vaan, on the other hand, I could at least handle being around for more than ten seconds.
There is a scale going from great to neutral to terrible. Vaan is neutral, Tidus is terrible.
With all that said... Tidus would obliterate Vaan if it were an actual fight. I just think Tidus is way too strong for Vaan.
Laddy
10-01-2013, 05:12 PM
Vaan is an inoffensive non-entity and the story recognizes as such.
Vaan.
Slothy
10-01-2013, 05:15 PM
I'm with Vivi22 on this one. I mean, you can go on about "but a personality is good for the story!" all you like - I like to immerse myself in the story and if I immerse myself next to Tidus, I would want nothing more than for him to suffer an extremely bloody, extremely quick death. Quick because it would mean I have to spend less time looking at his annoying self, listening to his annoying self, and pretty much dealing with his annoying everything.
Vaan, on the other hand, I could at least handle being around for more than ten seconds.
There is a scale going from great to neutral to terrible. Vaan is neutral, Tidus is terrible.
With all that said... Tidus would obliterate Vaan if it were an actual fight. I just think Tidus is way too strong for Vaan.
Not often we agree with eachother on FF things. Not sure how I should feel about that.
But I will say, I wouldn't want Tidus to receive a quick death. I think I'd actually enjoy listening to his whining if it was the result of him being slowly skinned alive, or me cutting him open and having a feel of his internal organs. :radred:
Karifean
10-01-2013, 08:39 PM
*sigh* Is it really a lack of tolerance that causes this abnormal hate for Tidus' personality?
Slothy
10-01-2013, 09:03 PM
There's no such thing as abnormal hate for Tidus' personality.
Freya
10-01-2013, 09:10 PM
I like them both. Well Vaans abs are creepy....
LadyJuxtaposition
10-01-2013, 10:39 PM
Well, I don't know about you, but I think Vaan needs to put up a shirt...
Tidus is filled with energy, tell great stories, and even have a great personality that always lifted my spirits. So that being said, I'm going with Tidus on this debate. :)
Elskidor
10-02-2013, 01:40 AM
Fight: Tidus
Most Annoying: Tidus
More Pointless: Vaan
Better End: Tidus
Better Voice actor: Vaan
Tidus wins 3 out of 5...or until I think of more stuff to compare them between.
I can't believe that people hate Tidus1 so much that they're willing to to count Vaan as the better character2.
Tigmafuzz
10-02-2013, 07:18 AM
Fight: Tidus
Most Annoying: Tidus
More Pointless: Vaan
Better End: Tidus
Better Voice actor: Vaan
Tidus wins 3 out of 5...or until I think of more stuff to compare them between.
You're giving them point for negative things as well as positive things? I don't understand.
I can't believe that people hate Tidus1 so much that they're willing to to count Vaan as the better character2.
I would just strongly prefer if Tidus didn't exist at all. At least Vaan is tolerable.
I honestly find Tidus and Vaan's voice actors to be incredibly similar.
Bolivar
10-03-2013, 12:06 AM
Funny thing is I once saw Vaan's voice actor on an episode of Veronica mars and instantly knew it was him!
I really like both, I think X and XII are both easily up for greatest game ever made. If I had to pick one maybe Tidus, just because the emotional connection is so much stronger. Vaan's pretty dope though.
I would just strongly prefer if Tidus didn't exist at all. At least Vaan is tolerable.
If Tidus didn't exist, the main plot of Final Fantasy X would be fundamentally altered. If Vaan didn't exist, Final Fantasy XII would run very similarly.
Tigmafuzz
10-03-2013, 01:19 AM
If Tidus didn't exist, maybe I wouldn't have had to play FFX.
Slothy
10-03-2013, 03:02 AM
I would just strongly prefer if Tidus didn't exist at all. At least Vaan is tolerable.
If Tidus didn't exist, the main plot of Final Fantasy X would be fundamentally altered. If Vaan didn't exist, Final Fantasy XII would run very similarly.
You say this like it's a bad thing. :p
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa196/narcissisticprincess09/tidus_and_cat_by_vonman-d4ae88y_zps4a9458bd.jpg (http://s198.photobucket.com/user/narcissisticprincess09/media/tidus_and_cat_by_vonman-d4ae88y_zps4a9458bd.jpg.html)
*Sigh*
The Occuria keep showing Vaan and Ashe visions of their loved ones, "killed" by the Empire to fuel their hatred of it. Vaan was supposed to act as their failsafe if they couldn't get Ashe to do what they wanted. They did not know, however, that Vaan would be the first to overcome his lust for revenge (hence he stopped seeing Reks' vision earlier than Ashe stopped seeing Rasler's). Him not seeing the vision anymore was what made Ashe question her desire for revenge. Basically, if Vaan wasn't here and didn't reach his own conclusions, Ashe could have easily become Ivalice's equivalent of Hitler. To those who said Vaan was completely pointless - did we even play the same game?
As for Tidus - I don't mind him being an annoying :bou::bou::bou::bou:. What I hate about him is his forced character development. One event does not make your personality do a 180, especially if you were a spoiled brat all your life. I think Vaan's (unvoiced) thoughts that make him reach conclusions about himself are far more real that Tidus' switch to a selfless knight from a self-obsessed idiot. I know I've assessed myself the way Vaan did numerous times and I've yet to do something like Tidus.
Vaan FTW.
Silent Warrior
10-06-2013, 10:46 AM
Vaan's translation makes sense from start to finish. *Punts FFX for ruining the great mortality reveal*
Similar to White Wizard, I felt Vaan was more plausible - if not quite the same entertainment value or self-assumed knighthood. Worst part of Vaan was his nose...
Cosmiccandy
10-12-2013, 06:07 PM
Not even close. Even if you can't stand Tidus, at least he makes sense as a main character within the context of the narrative. Vaan is to the story of XII as tits are to a bull.
Freya
10-15-2013, 08:46 AM
I really like both of them :shobon:. Vaan's abs creep me out and Tidus laugh creeps me out but I liked them.
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