What Modern FF Is Missing

[SirPrizes]

Firstly, I want to make it clear that I'm not claiming to be an expert on Final Fantasy, as there are still many installments that I haven't played. I have been playing the classic FFs recently though, and I noticed something that I feel may be one of the fundamental factors in why the more modern games, at least in my opinion (and many others' I have seen elsewhere on the internet), are lacking.

Modern FF is lacking a lighthearted, whimsical atmosphere. It's lacking a sense of fun, and instead has replaced it with numerous layers of melodrama that make the games feel like playing through a bad anime.

I first had this thought while playing through VII for the first time, especially the first half of the game. Many set pieces and events simply would not fly in a modern Final Fantasy game. The entire sequence with Cloud crossdressing to break into a whore house, snowboarding down a mountain, the Golden Saucer; all of it was silly and not at all serious or melodramatic. Nothing of the sort was featured in XII or XIII, at least that I can remember.

I also just recently finished IX, and it is easily one of the most heartwarming games I have ever played. The sense of adventure and the way the characters interact with each other reminded me a lot of a 90s Disney movie, and overall it felt as though the game was designed to give players a sense of fun, instead of a super serious, ultra edgy dramatic experience. The dialogue and writing was an absolute joy to read, and when the game did have its serious moments, they were always handled in a manner that felt appropriate, and it never felt like it dwelt too long on those sequences. Instead, the hardships the characters face end up strengthening their character, and when they come back with even more resolve and determination than before, it makes the player want to root them on and see them succeed. Especially Vivi, I absolutely loved everything about his character and portrayal.

VI is also full of moments between the characters like this, and, like VII, it also has its share of serious moments and drama. But it also has a fair share of comic relief, also like VII. Ultros, Gau, and others help the game from being swallowed by its very serious plot, until you enter the World of Ruin and the tone is appropriately serious. But even then, by completing the character specific quests in the WoR, you gain a new appreciation for the characters and want to see them succeed even more than before. And the game's conclusion gives the player a huge feeling of accomplishment, because they have already seen what should happen if they are to fail.

If I were to try and pinpoint further what I find to be lacking in the modern FFs, it would be a focus on characters and party banter. The focus instead seems to have shifted to these large, sweeping, convoluted and overly dramatic plots, with characters and character interaction suffering for it. In my opinion, from playing through some of the classic FFs more recently and with a perspective in no way tied to nostalgia, what FF seems to be lacking is an emphasis on CHARACTERS, and how they deal with the events at hand. In other words, focus has shifted from how characters deal with and overcome the events in the story, to the events themselves.

All this being said, XV looks to have a serious tone and story to it, but I'm optimistic that its cast will produce an air of brotherly comradery between the characters that provides for some satisfying conversations between the cast. What made the other FF stories so satisfying was that the bonds between the group strengthened as time went on, and they were always helping each other through the despair that may have engulfed them or their world.

So, what do you all think? Do you think FF is missing a more lighthearted tone and more heartwarming moments and interactions between characters? Do you think the characters have suffered as time has gone on? Do you think XV will be a satisfying experience that will hearken back to the tone of older FFs? Or do you even think modern FF is lacking anything at all?

[Elskidor]

If they don't start getting better soon, they might as well remake all the best titles for PS4. Nah, I liked XII, XIII was just a huge miss for me, and the time they waste in between titles takes a life time. If they could just get back to pumping out new and fresh FF titles every year or 2 years maximum, then I don't mind a few bad seeds along with some epic ones. But now if they make 2 bad games in a row, then that's nearly a decade of waiting for something good to come around.

[black orb]

>>> Sakaguchi..:luca:

[SirPrizes]

If they don't start getting better soon, they might as well remake all the best titles for PS4. Nah, I liked XII, XIII was just a huge miss for me, and the time they waste in between titles takes a life time. If they could just get back to pumping out new and fresh FF titles every year or 2 years maximum, then I don't mind a few bad seeds along with some epic ones. But now if they make 2 bad games in a row, then that's nearly a decade of waiting for something good to come around.

That too. With how high budget they are and with how long they take to develop now, they can't really afford to have any more flops. Luckily XV looks really promising. It kind of blows my mind realizing VII, VIII, and IX all came out within a four year span.

I also think they should stop making each series into its own... series (for lack of a better word), and go back to making every game a stand-alone title. I really dislike how we have three games based on XIII.

>>> Sakaguchi..:luca:

This, too. Lost Odyssey was much better than XII or XIII in my opinion. Haven't gotten a chance to try Last Story though, does it retain that FF feel?

[DMKA]

Every FF is different. All the shit people complain about modern FFs lacking (a love story, minigames, well fleshed out character development, etc) weren't in the earliest FF games to begin with.

I don't think they're missing anything personally, aside of Cloud and Sephiroth.

[Elskidor]

It kind of blows my mind realizing VII, VIII, and IX all came out within a four year span.



It was the 90's in general. In America we got IV, VI,VII, VIII, IX, FFTactics, Chrono Trigger/Cross, Mario RPG all within one decade, and I've heard people debate why each or any of the titles are the best of the series. After the 2000's we've gotten X, XII, XIII and Kingdom Hearts, and only two of those titles have been as popular as any of the ones from the 90's. Quality has suffered over the years.

[SirPrizes]

It kind of blows my mind realizing VII, VIII, and IX all came out within a four year span.



It was the 90's in general. In America we got IV, VI,VII, VIII, IX, FFTactics, Chrono Trigger/Cross, Mario RPG all within one decade, and I've heard people debate why each or any of the titles are the best of the series. After the 2000's we've gotten X, XII, XIII and Kingdom Hearts, and only two of those titles have been as popular as any of the ones from the 90's. Quality has suffered over the years.

Yeah, when you put it like that, modern gaming and gaming in the 90s are like night and day. I think a lot of it probably has to do with massive budgets and more complex tools to work with increasing development times and making releases less frequent, but still. It seems like game companies haven't quite discovered an efficient way to budget their projects properly. I'm sure such a way exists, just, for whatever reason, they haven't found it. I also blame ridiculously high production costs for us not seeing Square putting out anything on a home console that isn't FF or DQ.

[Cosmiccandy]

Yeah, when you put it like that, modern gaming and gaming in the 90s are like night and day. I think a lot of it probably has to do with massive budgets and more complex tools to work with increasing development times and making releases less frequent, but still. It seems like game companies haven't quite discovered an efficient way to budget their projects properly. I'm sure such a way exists, just, for whatever reason, they haven't found it. I also blame ridiculously high production costs for us not seeing Square putting out anything on a home console that isn't FF or DQ.

It feels like modern games have kind of worked themselves into a corner.

Starting with the early 2000's budgets started becoming sky high and it slowly became more and more rare that people would make a more experimental game with a modest budget and still make a decent profit from more modest sales. This "middle market" would occasionally produce hits that then had the potential to reach for the stars and was overall healthy for variety of the gaming market. Big triple-A titles are nice, but they need a successor eventually to carry the torch when they're gone. But around the late 2000's until present, that market has seemed to all but evaporate.

They've worked themselves into a corner because they dont seem to want to admit that they no longer have the sheer demand from video game consumers to support these monolithic big budget titles anymore. How outraged would people be if the latest FF had worse graphics then its predecessor? Weve grown so accustomed to the quality of big budget titles that if companies are to turn back now, we would notice immediately and we would (unjustifiably) call foul, even if the game was superior in gameplay or storytelling which isn't so budget-dependent. Things cant continue the way they are though, something has got to give.

But enough doomsaying about the gaming industry. As far as Final Fantasy is concerned, what about FFX-2? Even though the plot centered around a potentially world-destroying superweapon, very few of the characters take it all too seriously. Yuna might reflect on how everybodies safety is threatened, but she doesn't dwell on it very long and stays upbeat. I feel that it was more character centric than conflict centric as tons of side plots are just left on the backburner as Yuna and Co screw around. A lot of people didn't like that game so I can understand why Square may be anxious to try something like that ever again and are sticking to more grim subject matter.

[Ayen]

The problems I see don't sound any different than pretty much anything in the entertainment industry these days (with maybe an exception for TV), style over substance. Why spend any time on a well developed story and fleshed out characters when we can wow you with the special effects? Why give you a new gaming experience when we can just update some things here and there and call it a new game when it qualifies more as an expansion pack? Why focus more on gameplay and story when we can wow you with the visuals of modern technology and give you various eye-candy? And why should we care to try anything different when people are still giving us money?

[Vyk]

I've been of the opinion that most of Japan (as far as entertainment creators are concerned), have very little idea what the difference between drama and melodrama even is. They tend to act, and create, with melodrama in mind, and thinking that it makes good drama. It makes me have little patience for things they create in recent years, like anime and JRPGs (or really any games, most of the time). There's the rare producer or director that actually gets it. What real drama is. But they are rare

[SirPrizes]

Yeah, when you put it like that, modern gaming and gaming in the 90s are like night and day. I think a lot of it probably has to do with massive budgets and more complex tools to work with increasing development times and making releases less frequent, but still. It seems like game companies haven't quite discovered an efficient way to budget their projects properly. I'm sure such a way exists, just, for whatever reason, they haven't found it. I also blame ridiculously high production costs for us not seeing Square putting out anything on a home console that isn't FF or DQ.

It feels like modern games have kind of worked themselves into a corner.

Starting with the early 2000's budgets started becoming sky high and it slowly became more and more rare that people would make a more experimental game with a modest budget and still make a decent profit from more modest sales. This "middle market" would occasionally produce hits that then had the potential to reach for the stars and was overall healthy for variety of the gaming market. Big triple-A titles are nice, but they need a successor eventually to carry the torch when they're gone. But around the late 2000's until present, that market has seemed to all but evaporate.

They've worked themselves into a corner because they dont seem to want to admit that they no longer have the sheer demand from video game consumers to support these monolithic big budget titles anymore. How outraged would people be if the latest FF had worse graphics then its predecessor? Weve grown so accustomed to the quality of big budget titles that if companies are to turn back now, we would notice immediately and we would (unjustifiably) call foul, even if the game was superior in gameplay or storytelling which isn't so budget-dependent. Things cant continue the way they are though, something has got to give.

But enough doomsaying about the gaming industry. As far as Final Fantasy is concerned, what about FFX-2? Even though the plot centered around a potentially world-destroying superweapon, very few of the characters take it all too seriously. Yuna might reflect on how everybodies safety is threatened, but she doesn't dwell on it very long and stays upbeat. I feel that it was more character centric than conflict centric as tons of side plots are just left on the backburner as Yuna and Co screw around. A lot of people didn't like that game so I can understand why Square may be anxious to try something like that ever again and are sticking to more grim subject matter.

I definitely agree about the evaporation of the middle market, though I'm hoping now that digital distribution is really taking off, smaller companies can afford to get their games out there more. The recent acquisition of Atlus by Sega has me really worried too, because they were the last developer left that I'd really call mid-tier, and they brought us tons of games that we otherwise would have never seen in the West, with plenty of experimentation in games like Catherine.

"They've worked themselves into a corner because they dont seem to want to admit that they no longer have the sheer demand from video game consumers to support these monolithic big budget titles anymore."

That's brutally honest, and completely spot-on. Tech has to plateau somewhere, we can't keep pushing for better production values when there isn't the demand to support it. I think we're nearing that point, though that's been said with every generation since the PS2 days. But we will eventually get to the point where every game will run 60fps 1080p native and there will be no technological barrier to push past anymore, although now that 4k TVs are a thing, that might be the next thing to push for. Either way, the trend of budgets increasing as exponentially as the technology itself really needs to change if we want to keep having quality games.

I actually haven't played X-2 yet, but your description of it really makes me want to try it. I've also read its battle system is one of the best iterations of ATB. Maybe I'll try it when the HD collection hits, or just pick up the original (though there's other PS2 games I want to try first, like Nocturne).



The problems I see don't sound any different than pretty much anything in the entertainment industry these days (with maybe an exception for TV), style over substance. Why spend any time on a well developed story and fleshed out characters when we can wow you with the special effects? Why give you a new gaming experience when we can just update some things here and there and call it a new game when it qualifies more as an expansion pack? Why focus more on gameplay and story when we can wow you with the visuals of modern technology and give you various eye-candy? And why should we care to try anything different when people are still giving us money?

Yeah, style over substance is a great way to put it, and in my opinion describes XIII perfectly. It's oozing this edgy anime style, the fights look cool and the game is pretty, but there's not enough substance to back it up. I often like to use the analogy that most modern games aren't so much games as they are interactive virtual tours, where developers want to hold your hand and guide you through the game so you can see all the pretty environments they worked so hard to create. "Look to your left and you can see how much time we spent on this gorgeous backdrop as you run straight down this corridor to the next cutscene we worked so hard to make so pretty!" That's how I felt when playing XIII. And the fact that it still sells lets them get away with it, for sure.



I've been of the opinion that most of Japan (as far as entertainment creators are concerned), have very little idea what the difference between drama and melodrama even is. They tend to act, and create, with melodrama in mind, and thinking that it makes good drama. It makes me have little patience for things they create in recent years, like anime and JRPGs (or really any games, most of the time). There's the rare producer or director that actually gets it. What real drama is. But they are rare

This is something I've noticed with a lot of Japanese media as well, though my experience with anime is much more limited than my experience with video games. I think Evangelion was able to pull it off really well though, even though its plot was incredibly complex. It all makes a lot of sense to me though when you look at it analytically, though that may be because I've taken art/film/music appreciation classes. I know a lot of people think it's just needlessly complicated. But even in anime, you have fun stuff like Miyazaki movies, and Bebop was expertly paced with plenty of cast banter and great writing to keep it interesting. So the Japanese can do it, they just keep opting not to for some reason. It's strange.

[black orb]

Haven't gotten a chance to try Last Story though, does it retain that FF feel?
>>> I dont know, I have not played that game either..:luca:

[Jiro]

The Last Story is great. You should play it if you get a chance. It's not perfect by any means and a lot about it is rough but it feels far more like Final Fantasy games of yore.

[Cosmiccandy]

I actually haven't played X-2 yet, but your description of it really makes me want to try it. I've also read its battle system is one of the best iterations of ATB. Maybe I'll try it when the HD collection hits, or just pick up the original (though there's other PS2 games I want to try first, like Nocturne).



There is one glaring flaw with the ATB system in that game. Any action you take with a charge time are placed into a "queue" of other actions with a charge time. Only one of these can take place at a time. The problem? The ATB gauges of everyone else is still progressing as these characters sit with fully charged gauges waiting in the "queue" to do their action. and even while they do their action. If you get into battle with a ton of enemies who use these moves, and your party also uses these moves, anything just using basic attacks will get two/three times as many turns as you and the battle slows to a crawl. The best way to alleviate this is to go into a seperate characters item or spell menu to swap the system from "Active Mode" to "Wait Mode" (after you enable it in the options). All of the fully charged actions in the queue will take place and nobody will charge their ATB gauge while you are in Wait Mode. If all of your characters use charge abilities, you're trout out of luck.

Allow me to recommend this exceptional screenshot LP of the game originally posted on Something Awful. You dont have to read all of it, but it should give you a better idea than I can about what this game is about.

http://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-X-2/

[Jiro]

I guess X-2 is the first game that actually remains engaging in Wait Mode? I never had an issue with it though, I kept it on active the whole way.

[Freya]

The Last Story is great. You should play it if you get a chance. It's not perfect by any means and a lot about it is rough but it feels far more like Final Fantasy games of yore.
Ugh stop reminding me of my wii's death. I bought this game the same day my wii died on me :( never got to see what lovely adventure sakaguchi had for me. :(

[Jiro]

Also re: the thread title.

Modern Final Fantasy games are missing a release date. Zing!

[Scotty_ffgamer]

This reminds me that I still need to beat Xenoblade and Pandora's Tower since I own both of them.

Anyways, I won't be able to accurately judge what modern Final Fantasy is missing until XV comes out. All of the Final Fantasy games since the PS2 era have been vastly different games. Each of them have their shortcomings or things that don't match my preferences, but those shortcomings are different in each game. If I were to choose anything that's missing, it would be Nobuo and nostalgia. Even then, the music isn't bad, I just like the older soundtracks much better.

[Cosmiccandy]

If I were to choose anything that's missing, it would be Nobuo and nostalgia. Even then, the music isn't bad, I just like the older soundtracks much better.

Oh man, I know what you mean. The new guys they have on music aren't bad or anything, but almost every track is utterly forgettable to me besides "A Thousand Words". Well I also remember "Real Emotion", but thats because I didn't like it at all.


I guess X-2 is the first game that actually remains engaging in Wait Mode? I never had an issue with it though, I kept it on active the whole way.

Plenty of people go through the game without noticing it, myself included until my second playthrough on NG Plus where I was screwing around with three Black Mages and noticing the pace of battle had slowed considerably. To be honest the game is mostly easy and its not unless you want to do the tough as nails optional stuff like the Via Infinito or Angra Mainyu where it really comes into play. You cant afford to give something like Chac any extra turns than it might already get.

[Bolivar]

I think the only thing missing is focus. Squares new bread and butter is the handheld market, Japanese gaming culture has changed and now the main console series is not the center of their attention. If you look at all the top designers on the main FF games, the catalogue speaks for itself: all of them have worked on numerous portable side projects in the time it took them to release a single console game. They need to keep their top talent focused on the main console games, two teams each working on a two year cycle, much like they did in the Playstation era, and focus on making great games that generate a ton of buzz.

I've said it before, I really can't complain about the quality of the series, the next game will be completely different from the last few, but I've liked them all so far anyway. I don't know what someone who said its not about characters anymore is talking about. The first half of XIII splits the party up into pairs on different journeys, letting them interact with each other as their arcs progress. Not to mention the different duos made the combat very fun to play around and experiment with. I'm sorry, but I can't bring myself to say XIII was a bad video game.

Also, the series isn't going to stop focusing on graphical fidelity; it wouldn't be FF anymore. Even in the Famicom days, Square has always been a company that thrives on the bleeding edge of what video game graphics can achieve, regardless of whether you appreciated it or not.

[Karifean]

I guess X-2 is the first game that actually remains engaging in Wait Mode? I never had an issue with it though, I kept it on active the whole way.

Plenty of people go through the game without noticing it, myself included until my second playthrough on NG Plus where I was screwing around with three Black Mages and noticing the pace of battle had slowed considerably. To be honest the game is mostly easy and its not unless you want to do the tough as nails optional stuff like the Via Infinito or Angra Mainyu where it really comes into play. You cant afford to give something like Chac any extra turns than it might already get.

For some reason I could never play X-2 in Wait Mode. It just feels wrong, like you're fighting in a way you shouldn't. Nothing against people who use it, but I don't think I'll ever use Wait Mode. For me, Active Mode is just the way to go. It did lead to some undesirable deaths (such as Chac shattering a character before they could be unpetrified simply because another character was using an Elixir at the time) but it feels more satisfying for me to beat all those enemies in Active Mode. They're all perfectly vincible anyway.

Ontopic, I think Modern FFs are missing the nostalgic feeling. Maybe in some years' time I'll look back on the current gen FF games and be reminded of the good old days. Other than that, I can't really complain. The formula keeps on changing which is great and every game is still unique.