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View Full Version : [LR] Lightning Returns: With a Whimper



Aulayna
11-28-2013, 04:59 PM
48648

Lightning, oooh why? Why you look so sad? Tears are in your eyes. Come on come to me now. Don't be ashamed to cry. However, unfortunately m'dear, it seems like Japanese fans aren't willing to stand by you anymore.

The pink haired heroine as has long been toted by Square Enix as one of their favourite characters. It seems, though, that the love affair may have ended. Lightning Returns: FINAL FANTASY XIII launched to an incredibly low amount of sales in Japan this week. Just 277,082 physical copies were sold. To put that into perspective, that's just under 50% lower than FINAL FANTASY XIII-2's 524,217 week one sales. FINAL FANTASY XIII-2 itself was also a significant drop form the 1,501,964 copies that the original FINAL FANTASY XIII sold.

These are probably not the type of figures that Square Enix are hoping for. It's worth nothing that this is exceptionally gloomy as all of these figures are just for sales of the physical copy of the PlayStation 3 version and don't include XBOX 360 sales (which has a very low market share in Japan), or, digital downloads. The XBOX 360 version didn't even sell well enough to rank in the Japanese charts.

Considering the lack of hype on these shores for this title, I can't say I'm surprised. I wonder if Square Enix will engage in far more aggressive marketing strategies ahead of the North American and European launchers. However with the next-gen consoles here, I suspect sales on this side of the globe will be fairly low too.

So, this was far from a fitting swansong for Lightning. Love her or hate her, she's been a staple of the franchise for the best part of nearly 10 years now. It'll be interesting to see what lessons Square Enix take from this.

[Source: ?LIGHTNING RETURNS?27?7000?????????? 3D??????10?????????????????????????????? - 4Gamer.net (http://www.4gamer.net/games/117/G011794/20131127061/) ]

Lone Wolf Leonhart
11-28-2013, 05:09 PM
This is disheartening. But nevertheless I'm looking forward to playing this. I really feel like Square put a lot in to this game. Just like when XIV came out, they took the criticism seriously and made an awesome game with a realm reborn. Even though XIII had criticism, I loved it, and they still produced an excellent sequel in my opinion. Can't wait to play this one.

Del Murder
11-28-2013, 05:16 PM
I hope this is a wake-up call to STOP MAKING LIGHTNING GAMES.

noxious.sunshine
11-28-2013, 05:22 PM
Lawl they already decided this would be the last one. XD

Elskidor
11-28-2013, 05:32 PM
Now it's time to make THUNDER games, with Lightning's long lost and forgotten twin sister of purple hair and an even more bad attitude.

Shorty
11-28-2013, 07:28 PM
I hope this is a wake-up call to STOP MAKING LIGHTNING GAMES.

Yep.

Wait, has she really been a staple for ten years? Absolutely time to move on.

Sephiroth
11-28-2013, 07:35 PM
I don't mind making Lightning titles stop as long as making titles with her in the story does not stop, so basically Final Fantasy XIII can continue for me. Like all Final Fantasys.

Lone Wolf Leonhart
11-28-2013, 09:05 PM
I don't mind making Lightning titles stop as long as making titles with her in the story does not stop, so basically Final Fantasy XIII can continue for me. Like all Final Fantasys.

You mean like more Dissidia games? I'm on board with that.

Sephiroth
11-28-2013, 09:07 PM
I don't mind making Lightning titles stop as long as making titles with her in the story does not stop, so basically Final Fantasy XIII can continue for me. Like all Final Fantasys.

You mean like more Dissidia games? I'm on board with that.

That would not be the story but a non-canon crossover like Kingdom Hearts that has some "canon-like" elements in it (like the Warrior of Light walking to Cornelia at the end of Dissidia to show the beginning of Final Fantasy - "And so their journey begins" but without the three other characters). I am talking about Final Fantasy XIII itself. It just does not need to be called "Sexy Workout with Lightning" or anything. Not that I mind though, I like the Sexy Workout Edition that Final Fantasy XIII-3 is.

Freya
11-29-2013, 05:53 AM
Honestly I didn't think the XIII story merited so many sequels. The story line just seems very all over the place Throwing all these ideas together on a wall and saying it's ART! I'm so over lightning but i'm going ot get the game regardless cause i'm interested in the combat.

Venom65437
11-29-2013, 07:29 AM
STUNNING!

Mahad
11-29-2013, 08:13 AM
And so it ends. Guess fans grew tired of this one real quick. I liked 13 fine enough, but I never really played 13-2. May be they'll do better with 15.

Sephiroth
11-29-2013, 12:10 PM
I'm interested:

Would people be interested in more of this world and their characters if old features like the old battle system (FF-IX or X) the Overworld map, exactly the same kind of random battles and all that reappeared?

Loony BoB
11-29-2013, 12:15 PM
I don't think it was the battle system that made people dislike the game, I think it was more along the lines of poor story and lack of fun minigames in the initial game that doomed the sequels. FFXIII-2 was generally liked by the majority that played it and got much better reviews than the first game.

As for the sales, it's not a surprise, surely? I mean, did anyone actually expect the third game in the series to do better than the second? I think after the second dropped from 1.5m to 500,000 then the third one would be expected to drop down to about 250,000. Maybe that's just me. :p

Sephiroth
11-29-2013, 12:21 PM
I can't see how "poor story" is something that can be generally taken as reason. Both 1 and 2 have a story that focusses heavily on the emotions of the main characters and the impact of their actions (L'Cie, Noel, Caius, Yeul, et cetera). I would have been disappointed if the story ended with Serah in that dead-like state, yes but since the story continues I am okay with it - yet I don't know how it ends.

The first and second one actually should have had for me what I mentioned, then there would have been nothing to complain, except a variety of sidequests like you mentioned, I forgot that and a team that you can control.

Loony BoB
11-29-2013, 12:26 PM
You have to remember that such criticisms are down to individuals. On the whole, though, I know many felt the story in the first game (along with linearity, lack of sidequests, and yes, to some extent the battle system although many said that was the only thing they enjoyed) was very lacking. I'm one of them. Don't get me wrong, I liked the characters, but a story is still required to really get you into the feel of the game. I don't think Barthy's rampage ranks remotely close to the likes of Kefka, Kuja, Sephiroth, Shinra, Sin or even Garland, to be honest. He did nothing for me. I felt the premise of the Cie'th/l'Cie/fal'Cie was awesome and I felt they buggerd up how well they could have played out the story, but that's just me. I know a lot of others felt the ending was very "deus ex machina".

Sephiroth
11-29-2013, 12:36 PM
Yes, I know it is down to individuals but I don't understand that if you take some relevant aspects and directly compare them. More is mentioned below.

The focus is on the main characters, you liked that as you said and how they were shown you just could not feel with them or the story.
Actually Barthandelus is exactly like Kefka, Sephiroth and Kuja. He took the main characters and said "okay, now do that for me" (opening the Cave to the Sealed Gate/the Gathering Place, calling his subconsciousness, then make him handing Sephiroth the Black Materia, a Gulug Stone from Oeil Vert, et cetera, Garland, Mateus, X-Death, Ultimecia were also like that; other villains but they are not the main villains so I don't count them). About the Deus ex Machina - I can see how people think that, but the story actually predicted Ragnarok already and that people already transformed into it and to an extent pretty much everything is a Deus ex Machina when the characters don't succeed with their own power. The lifestream destroying Meteor was also one then. Final Fantasy villains are always too powerful. I think the characters getting help from others or other aspects from their world is just fair and since it has been used often it is not even a real Deus ex Machina but something to expect to happen.

Don't get me wrong, I also have aspects that I think of as a pity.

Mirage
11-29-2013, 12:44 PM
Although I am slightly interested in the game, and am going to buy it, this doesn't surprise me at all.

Del Murder
11-29-2013, 06:42 PM
I thought FFXIII's story was ok. There was a distinct lack of strong NPCs and too much focus (no pun intended) was on the main cast. But otherwise it was fine, had some interesting characters and twists, and not my main gripe of the game.

FFXIII-2's story was awful. Noel was a great character, in fact I liked him better than any of the FFXIII cast, but the rest was a mess. To do a time travel story right, you have to be very careful, and this felt like it was just throwing things in here and there for effect and with no real reason. FFXIII characters were showing up left and right with no purpose or explanation. The world had no fluidity to it, and was just a bunch of disjointed locations. Caius was a boring villain whose true purpose was never quite clear. Serah was a nothingburger. All that could have been ok, if the story was wrapped up in a decent ending or if not decent at least something with finality. But instead we got a 'To Be Continued' screen with some really vague scenes, and really after that I couldn't care less what happens to those characters or world.

I would have been more interested in FFXIII-3 if it was its own self-contained game and not in the the FFXIII franchise. I am so tired of this story and its characters, and I have no desire to see the story concluded, because it is become a huge pile of poop.

Hollycat
11-29-2013, 06:46 PM
I hope this is a wake-up call to STOP MAKING LIGHTNING GAMES.

Yep.

Wait, has she really been a staple for ten years? Absolutely time to move on.

What? Didn't the first one come out in like 2010? How is that anywhere near ten years?

Jinx
11-29-2013, 06:58 PM
It came out in 2009 and 2010, but development began in 2004.

Hollycat
11-29-2013, 07:06 PM
It came out in 2009 and 2010, but development began in 2004.

I didn't know when they started development, thank you.

It's hard to believe it took them as long as the development of skyrim and gta5 to make a hallway with random encounters.

Mirage
11-29-2013, 09:54 PM
Yeah it's like they should have had a trophy for it.

Sephiroth
11-29-2013, 09:56 PM
Considering how much work went into it I do believe that. There was even an own program for Lightning's legs. And Final Fantasy XV also needs much time.

Lone Wolf Leonhart
11-30-2013, 12:37 AM
Square Enix Shipped Far Fewer Copies Of Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII - Siliconera (http://www.siliconera.com/2013/11/29/square-enix-shipped-far-fewer-copies-lightning-returns-final-fantasy-xiii/)

Ayen
11-30-2013, 01:15 AM
Obviously they'll take this to mean they should get started on spin-offs for all the other characters straight away.

LadyJuxtaposition
11-30-2013, 07:07 PM
I'm thinking why that is is the spoilers and the spoiling news that SE kept making. Since people know what to expect or having a hunch, they decided not to buy it. Of course, other reasons would include financial issues like I didn't get enough money or I need to take care of the rent and bills (I'll be most likely in that situation all thanks to the economic crisis still lurking in the US).
On a positive note, earning small sales is better than not selling a single game at all. We had to wait what the profits will make when February comes around. Nevertheless, I'm sure SE will make a satifiable conclusion of FFXIII and the fans will like it.

Jinx
11-30-2013, 08:33 PM
To be fair, they released it about a month before Christmas. It's possible in the following weeks that we could see more people buying the game.

DMKA
11-30-2013, 09:44 PM
Considering that Lightning Returns outsold Super Mario 3D World (which came out the same day) three times over, I'd say this has more to do with Japanese game sales being in a slump altogether, not the fact that it's an FFXIII game.

Sephiroth
11-30-2013, 10:04 PM
Maybe people save their money for a PS4.

I hope more peple buy it, they miss something, it is definitely worth a try. Of all three I like it the most.

Black Magic Shopkeeper
12-01-2013, 04:37 AM
whoops I said the same thing twice; I'll just edit this post and say this: I might play Lightning Returns, just for the sake of seeing exactly why it's so under-appreciated.
Or I could just watch someone else play it on youtube.

maybee
12-01-2013, 03:02 PM
The Sales could increase during Christmas time, as people may be waiting to hold off buying the game till the Christmas Season
Still Europe/ 'MERICA ! Sales to go
And good
So
Tried
And
Sick
Of
Lightning
And
Square- Enix
Forcing
Her
Down
Our
Throats
au revoir and don't come back hun

black orb
12-04-2013, 06:21 AM
>>> Totally expected, XIII is a bad number no matter what you do. (I still love Lightning though).

I feel like this is bad news for XV too, after all that game used to be linked to XIII (FF Versus XIII)..:luca:

Loony BoB
12-04-2013, 03:16 PM
Considering that Lightning Returns outsold Super Mario 3D World (which came out the same day) three times over, I'd say this has more to do with Japanese game sales being in a slump altogether, not the fact that it's an FFXIII game.
Interesting. What about other games out that week? Did it top the charts, or...?

Lamia
12-04-2013, 08:26 PM
Considering that Lightning Returns outsold Super Mario 3D World (which came out the same day) three times over, I'd say this has more to do with Japanese game sales being in a slump altogether, not the fact that it's an FFXIII game.
Interesting. What about other games out that week? Did it top the charts, or...?

Mario games do not sell QUICKLY. However, they have have consistent sales which allow them to make millions in the long run. For instance, Super Mario Galaxy, a phenomenally successful game only sold 260k (Mario Sunshine 160k) in its first week in Japan but went to be a multi-million seller. Final Fantasy, and many other franchises, sell a lot in the first week, and their first week sales are usually indicative of how well the game will sale in the long run.... but that is not the case for Mario or other Nintendo franchises.

However, PS3 sales in Japan are actually very weak this year yet they are still robust in NA/EU (probably because of The Last of Us, Beyond: Two Souls, God of War: Ascension, and other Sony exclusives that came out this year...)

Sephiroth
12-06-2013, 09:10 PM
I am sure it will sell fine. All do, just not always in comparison.

CarvingUp360
12-08-2013, 01:29 AM
This is what happens when you make a game and the title of it is named after the main character. This is also what happens when you make 3 games one right after the other and try make the games and the entire company itself revolve around that one character -.- and the fact that Lightning gets compared to the likes of Cloud is just laughable. Of course using the same ideas over and over again is going to get boring and stale, hopefully this is the last time square enix do this. Time to move on :D

Sephiroth
12-08-2013, 01:48 AM
... and the fact that Lightning gets compared to the likes of Cloud is just laughable. ...

Which likes of Cloud? Cloud are the only comparable main characters when it comes to a long story and a power to even match god-like entities. I won't spoil here.

Forsaken Lover
12-08-2013, 06:40 AM
Cloud never fought any gods. The only thing resembling a god in VII would be Omega Weapon and that's Chaos Vincent's territory.

But it doesn't matter. Power is quite irrelevant. Cloud is nothing like Lightning and he never has been. They just want to try and make Lightning "iconic" and the only way the dunderheads at Square can think to achieve this is to shove her in our faces as much as they can.

Cloud became more famous than Lightning with just one gme. Why? Because his game was actually good.

Sephiroth
12-08-2013, 04:01 PM
Cloud never fought any gods. The only thing resembling a god in VII would be Omega Weapon and that's Chaos Vincent's territory.

But it doesn't matter. Power is quite irrelevant. Cloud is nothing like Lightning and he never has been. They just want to try and make Lightning "iconic" and the only way the dunderheads at Square can think to achieve this is to shove her in our faces as much as they can.

Considering how powerful Sephiroth has become, is officially stated as the most powerful, absorbed the Ancient's knowledge, can partially control the lifestream, has an indestructable and unbeatable will and all, Cloud fought a god. And Sephiroth is nothing else than Omega. He is a collective of lifestream power plus his own power, Omega+ if you want. If people consider Kefka being a god or anything else with supernatural power, then he is, too. Plus, you forgot Minerva. She is an actual "goddess" when it comes to the entity.

You seem pretty mad but the "they want to try it" and "Cloud's game has been good" is nothing but your opinion because based on what exists, they have not just tried but succeeded and that it is good think many people. It is okay to not like her or Final Fantasy XIII but such mad comments are unnecessary.

Forsaken Lover
12-08-2013, 04:55 PM
People call Kefka a god because he absorbed the power of three goddesses.

And Minerva is an unknown. We know what Omega is - he is the sum total of all the power gathered in the Lifestream. He IS the Planet while Sephiroth's ultimate ambition, which he failed at, was to become that kind of being. Omega is what Sephiroth wanted to be.

Sephiroth
12-08-2013, 05:19 PM
People call Kefka a god because he absorbed the power of three goddesses.

And Minerva is an unknown. We know what Omega is - he is the sum total of all the power gathered in the Lifestream. He IS the Planet while Sephiroth's ultimate ambition, which he failed at, was to become that kind of being. Omega is what Sephiroth wanted to be.

No, Kefka is also called a god, because he became the ruler of magic (which was also created by gods) and because a Tzen guy says "Kefka's up there. And he's using the power of the statues. He's like a god ...". That is exactly what Sephiroth became. He rules the source of something. Sephiroth absorbed the power of how to use magic, which is the knowledge of the Cetra. And even the power of life by becoming immune to it and absorbing it since he has all time he needs. Minerva is not unknown, I don't know where you get that but she is the goddess Genesis speaks about. Also, Omega is not what Sephiroth wanted. Not the Omega of Dirge of Cerberus. Omega is a WEAPON, as stated in the Ultimania, no god as in godly entity if that is what you mean. The ultimate WEAPON is about to be created with the help of Chaos when the planet is about to die. Omega materializes out of the whole lifestream, flies to another planet and vanishes to become the lifestream there again. Omega in Dirge of Cerberus was an incarnation, summoned by tricking the planet. It materialized out of just a bit and was connected to the whole lifestream automatically dragging it with it. It is the lifestream's feet. Sephiroth himself wants the whole lifestream as well and still has his own power since he is written with the concept of exponential power increase (his mind cannot break since it is indestructable and from gathering more information he becomes more powerful, also strenghtening his mind again, plus his core is made more indestructable by linking himself to Cloud) as well as the Ultimania says thet Sephiroth's whole appearance was made like it is because of that kind of entity he has become and all that stuff is completely irrelevant because of Square Enix' own statement that he is the most powerful Final Fantasy VII entity and what they say - and that is the basis of my comments - is superior to what we say since they own the brand. That is axiomatic.

Anyway, this discussion is over. I don't want any more "PuPu"-like discussions since almost all of these misunderstandings come up because of only half of the information and the wrong context. Read all stuff and then write me a PM or don't, it is your decision. I am done here.

No hard feelings, however.