Who is the "Top Dog" ?

[CarvingUp360]

For years it has been uncertain who is the "Top Dog" so to speak of the Final Fantasy world. Cloud Strife, Squall Leonhart, Zidane Tribal and last but not least Tidus. They've all been compared to in many ways and their definitely the 4 most talked about protagonists of the Final Fantasy franchise. And no, Sephiroth does NOT count because he is a villain, and don't any of you even dare think about saying Lightning or i will put lego pieces inside of your shoes. So, who do you think it should be? :monster:
48881

[Ayen]

Top Dog in what way? If we're talking power and skill I think all four would hold their own against the other given what all they've been through in their respective stories. Character wise? I'm leaning towards it being a toss up between Cloud and Squall, out of the four of them, but I feel guilty voting having not been able to complete Zidane's story.

[Shauna]

Yuna.

[Sephiroth]

Sephiroth does NOT count because he is a villain


So you don't accept that Sephiroth is the secret main character of all Final Fantasys?

The Top Dog is Cloud. He is as much trademark as Sephiroth.

EDIT: Having godly power alone means nothing. And she is not really a Goddess just on the same level because of her connection to the important Gods. Cloud can hold his own against Lightning easily.

[Elskidor]

Out of those four? Some of the less major characters from their selected games are more top dog than they are. In terms of power they would all be a match or Squall and Cloud would be sitting there taking a beating and trying to stall long enough to reach their limit breaks. I would probably pick Cecil, Terra or even Ashe over the four at hand anyway though. Lightning is a Goddess so she would destroy them all ;)

[Pike]

I vote "Black Mage". C'mon, what's more iconic? (Aside from Moogles/Chocobos maybe.)

[Elskidor]

Vivi?

[Forsaken Lover]

In terms of power they would all be a match or Squall and Cloud would be sitting there taking a beating and trying to stall long enough to reach their limit breaks. I would probably pick Cecil, Terra or even Ashe over the four at hand anyway though. Lightning is a Goddess so she would destroy them all ;)

You need to rewatch Advent Children, or even some cutscenes in Crisis Core or Dirge of Cerberus, and then come back and try to say it's "close."

Squall and Tidus are out of their league in terms of strength, speed and durability. Cloud would kill them before they knew there was a fight.

Zidane has the whole "stronger than base Kuja" thing going for him though. So there could be a challenge there.

[Sephiroth]

Zidane has the whole "stronger than base Kuja" thing going for him though. So there could be a challenge there.

And even Zidane's power is not sure. We know Kuja is his prototype and he is Mikoto's, but that only means he is meant to be an improvement which was born to replace his "brother", not how much and in which terms. Kuja surely is better as a sorcerer (and I do not talk about stats, of course) and other stuff, the prototype does not need to be beaten overall in all aspects. Stil he can get better later. There is no totally accurate and unequivocal explanation.

[CarvingUp360]

Vivi?

Vivi! :D
48889

[Ayen]

In terms of power they would all be a match or Squall and Cloud would be sitting there taking a beating and trying to stall long enough to reach their limit breaks. I would probably pick Cecil, Terra or even Ashe over the four at hand anyway though. Lightning is a Goddess so she would destroy them all ;)

You need to rewatch Advent Children, or even some cutscenes in Crisis Core or Dirge of Cerberus, and then come back and try to say it's "close."

Squall and Tidus are out of their league in terms of strength, speed and durability. Cloud would kill them before they knew there was a fight.

Zidane has the whole "stronger than base Kuja" thing going for him though. So there could be a challenge there.

Squall was holding his own pretty well against the likes of Sephiroth at the beginning of Dissidia, I think he can hold out against Cloud okay.

[CarvingUp360]

Yuna.

No, Tifa :monster:
48890

[Shauna]

Nah, still Yuna. :3

[CarvingUp360]

Nah, still Yuna. :3

Still Yuna? ;)
48892

[Karifean]

The answer is obviously Gilgamesh.

Out of those four though, it's tough for me. I liked them all. They all had some form of internal torment yet kept putting on a smile and determinedly looked forward. Except for Squall, that is. He had a different way of dealing with his problems. It's a toss up between Cloud, Squall and Tidus and I really can't narrow it down any further. Actually, probably the only reason Zidane falls a bit behind is because FF9 doesn't really have nostalgic value for me ^^

Btw, Squall would totally win in a fight. Out of all of them, to me he always stood out above the others in terms of gameplay because of his sheer strength. I mean, he always does 1.5x damage and when in critical hitpoints, he always does between 6x and 12x damage. Not to mention the fact that he has perfect accuracy and Lion Heart is the most ridiculously powerful Limit Break, with not only 17 hits, but those hits actually deal a MULTIPLE of his base damage, rather than a fraction which is the usual deal with multi-hitters.

[Ayen]

I remember the first time I saw Squall smile, that was the same day the winged pig beast migrated to the south and the devil came up to the surface to buy winter clothes.

[CarvingUp360]

Well everyone does have their fair points but if you ask me It's really a toss up between Cloud and Squall when it comes to pure skill and fighting ability. But in character wise their all unique in their own ways. Nonetheless though Cloud and Squall are probably the most iconic out of these four especially Cloud and if you don't believe me about that then you need to watch advent children and play Final Fantasy 7 c: because Cloud would most likely come out the victor if these four were to fight, if not him then Squall :monster:

[Elskidor]

Cloud and Squall's limit breaks are both insane, and they became something you felt you had to do for all boss fights, rather than a nice rare surprise now and again. I'm glad they did away with them as they were in those two games, but just because of them, and out of these four characters, the limit break boys will probably be the final two standing. I don't recall who has the stronger limit break, but whoever does is the winner. I'm guessing Squall since Karifean mentioned it hit 17 times.

[CarvingUp360]

Cloud and Squall's limit breaks are both insane, and they became something you felt you had to do for all boss fights, rather than a nice rare surprise now and again. I'm glad they did away with them as they were in those two games, but just because of them, and out of these four characters, the limit break boys will probably be the final two standing. I don't recall who has the stronger limit break, but whoever does is the winner. I'm guessing Squall since Karifean mentioned it hit 17 times.

Limit breaks are handy and all but their not what makes the character strong and you cant always rely on them. Yes Cloud and Squall's limit breaks are both insane, but just because Squall has 1 limit break that surpasses any of Cloud's does not make him stronger than him and having an over powered limit break doesn't exactly mean he would be the victor :monster:

[Karifean]

Cloud and Squall's limit breaks are both insane, and they became something you felt you had to do for all boss fights, rather than a nice rare surprise now and again. I'm glad they did away with them as they were in those two games, but just because of them, and out of these four characters, the limit break boys will probably be the final two standing. I don't recall who has the stronger limit break, but whoever does is the winner. I'm guessing Squall since Karifean mentioned it hit 17 times.

Limit breaks are handy and all but their not what makes the character strong and you cant always rely on them. Yes Cloud and Squall's limit breaks are both insane, but just because Squall has 1 limit break that surpasses any of Cloud's does not make him stronger than him and having an over powered limit break doesn't exactly mean he would be the victor :monster:

...except that you pretty much CAN always rely on Squall's Limit Breaks since you can infinitely use them. And even in worst-case-scenario, his LB still hits for 6x the amount of damage a completely regular attack would. Not to mention that in the best case scenario, it's 63x damage (8 hits from Renzo all doing 1.5x damage, 17 hits from LH doing 3x damage).

Edit: I'm reading way too deep into this, aren't I?

[Elskidor]

I forgot something crucial about Tidus. If we are talking in terms of the power we see them in game then I forgot you can break the 9999 cap in FFX, so a totally pimped out Tidus would wipe the floor with all three of them combined. Oh my...coming from someone that dislikes Tidus that makes me cringe. In terms of just imagining this and that, and forgetting the base damage we see in game then I guess it's a matter of opinion and favorite character though.

X is the only one of these games that can break the 9999 standard I think.

[Sephiroth]

Squall was holding his own pretty well against the likes of Sephiroth at the beginning of Dissidia, I think he can hold out against Cloud okay.

Dissidia matches do not exist to show canonical powers and their equals. Squall is a skilled SeeD but he does not hold his own against Sephiroth. There are only two main characters that can hold their own against the antagonists when it comes to the antagonists doing more than just playing around a bit and those are Lightning, who has become very powerful and Cloud with his concept of an "actual limit break" when fights for what he loves. And even then some villains still play around.



X is the only one of these games that can break the 9999 standard I think.

Lightning can deal 999999 damage. But that is not important for story strength.

[CarvingUp360]

Well you do make a fair point, that is a pretty insane limit break but again it is not what makes the character strong no matter how many times you can use them. But if ya wanna make this about limit breaks check out Cloud's Omnislash :monster:

[Karifean]

I forgot something crucial about Tidus. If we are talking in terms of the power we see them in game then I forgot you can break the 9999 cap in FFX, so a totally pimped out Tidus would wipe the floor with all three of them combined. Oh my...coming from someone that dislikes Tidus that makes me cringe. In terms of just imagining this and that, and forgetting the base damage we see in game then I guess it's a matter of opinion and favorite character though.

X is the only one of these games that can break the 9999 standard I think.

Oh sure if you want to go that way nobody can take on Tidus. Then again, if you do go that way, you can also say that a truly maxed out Cloud probably has multiple Sneak-Attack + Knights of the Round combos in his equipment and even a single KotR would already knock out Tidus.

There's also the fact that Squall is the only one who can make himself Invincible, by using a Holy War.

Nah, there's not much point in going that way.

Edit: I still maintain that Lion Heart > Omnislash.

[Sephiroth]

Oh sure if you want to go that way nobody can take on Tidus. Then again, if you do go that way, you can also say that a truly maxed out Cloud probably has multiple Sneak-Attack + Knights of the Round combos in his equipment and even a single KotR would already knock out Tidus.

There's also the fact that Squall is the only one who can make himself Invincible, by using a Holy War.

Nah, there's not much point in going that way.

Edit: I still maintain that Lion Heart > Omnislash.

As mentioned:

Lightning can deal 999999 damage. But that is not important for story strength.

[CarvingUp360]

Everyone please stop talking about Lightning -.- the overratedness is doing my head in :monster:

[Sephiroth]

Everyone please stop talking about Lightning -.- the overratedness is doing my head in :monster:

You can't really ask for something like that while allowing multiple other overrated characters.

[CarvingUp360]

Some of the ones that are being discussed are overrated, But Lightning is on a whole other level of overrated. I wouldn't call Zidane an overrated character though, more like underrated :monster:

[Sephiroth]

Some of the ones that are being discussed are overrated, But Lightning is on a whole other level of overrated. I wouldn't call Zidane an overrated character though, more like underrated :monster:

Lightning was written so someone can finally be on par with old overrated things. And when it comes to her character and her powers it was a success.

Also, Cloud is not on another level of overratedness. I love Final Fantasy VII more than all the others but he is just loved that much. I might mention here, I don't mean overrated like without deserving it, but simply that gigantic mass of love.

[Ayen]

Squall was holding his own pretty well against the likes of Sephiroth at the beginning of Dissidia, I think he can hold out against Cloud okay.

Dissidia matches do not exist to show canonical powers and their equals. Squall is a skilled SeeD but he does not hold his own against Sephiroth. There are only two main characters that can hold their own against the antagonists when it comes to the antagonists doing more than just playing around a bit and those are Lightning, who has become very powerful and Cloud with his concept of an "actual limit break" when fights for what he loves. And even then some villains still play around.

I like how the female Cloud (not a knock she is inspired by Cloud) is the only other one who can stand up against Sephiroth. I wonder if that was on purpose.

I gotta say right now the villains are smurfing dumbasses with how much they play around...

[Karifean]

As mentioned:

Lightning can deal 999999 damage. But that is not important for story strength.

Yeah, I started writing that post before yours showed up. I had forgotten about that.

Although I still can't say for sure if Cloud or Squall would win in a "story strength" battle. I do believe Squall is far above average, considering he masters a weapon that most people consider ridiculous and impossible to wield (at least IRL). And yet there's no doubt that Cloud is on a very high level as well - plus the Buster Sword...

[Sephiroth]

I like how the female Cloud (not a knock she is inspired by Cloud) is the only other one who can stand up against Sephiroth. I wonder if that was on purpose.


Yes, she is inspired by him but don't get me wrong here, it is not shown how she fights Sephiroth. I say that because of the power she has in Lightning Returns. She fights someone who destroys multiple planets with one attack (canonically, not as Sephiroth whose move shows his power but was never used) and simply has super powers. With her powers she is better than Cloud - except his own super power which lets him defeat Sephiroth after his canonical "limit break". So directly seen, Lightning seems better, analyzed they are on par, comparing their battle skills and their "hold my own against a god" powers.

The thing is, that Sephiroth would probably, while she is very powerful, just defeat her without thinking about it. She is incredibly powerful, but Cloud is too and Cloud has only a chance because Sephiroth never uses all his powers and abilities together like reading minds, using illusions, shapeshifting, teleporting, using his greatest weapon, his will, and such and only because he wants to torture Cloud.

Still I love Lightning.

[Ayen]

I like how the female Cloud (not a knock she is inspired by Cloud) is the only other one who can stand up against Sephiroth. I wonder if that was on purpose.


Yes, she is inspired by him but don't get me wrong here, it is not shown how she fights Sephiroth. I say that because of the power she has in Lightning Returns. She fights someone who destroys multiple planets with one attack (canonically, not as Sephiroth whose move shows his power but was never used) and simply has super powers. With her powers she is better than Cloud - except his own super power which lets him defeat Sephiroth after his canonical "limit break". So directly seen, Lightning seems better, analyzed they are on par, comparing their battle skills and their "hold my own against a god" powers.

........
I forgot how crazy they could get on the power bar in these games.

[CarvingUp360]

Some of the ones that are being discussed are overrated, But Lightning is on a whole other level of overrated. I wouldn't call Zidane an overrated character though, more like underrated :monster:

Lightning was written so someone can finally be on par with old overrated things. And when it comes to her character and her powers it was a success.

Also, Cloud is not on another level of overratedness. I love Final Fantasy VII more than all the others but he is just loved that much. I might mention here, I don't mean overrated like without deserving it, but simply that gigantic mass of love.

I never said Cloud was on another level of overrated? He's one of my favorite characters of the entire franchise along with Squall, Zidane, Sephiroth, Tifa and more. I just really don't see the big deal about Lightning. Sure she's some tough, sexy goddess with pink hair who happens to be the main character of 3 games. But when a company practically revolves their company around that series and a certain character of course It's going to be a success but people are eventually going to get sick of that. I happen to be one of those people, and if that is NOT overrated then i don't know what the hell is. Yeah i get that people absolutely love lightning but im just expressing my opinion, not saying i don't like her as a character, it was definitely something fresh having a female protagonist. But I'm just saying :monster:

[Sephiroth]

I never said Cloud was on another level of overrated?

Pardon, you might have misunderstood me.

You said, the others are not as overrrated, automatically putting them on another level, a lower one. And I said "Cloud is not on another level" as in "he is on the same level".

I like that, believe me. The two are my favourites.

[CarvingUp360]

I said "the others" i never mentioned Cloud's name though so clearly you've misunderstood me. And of course most characters of the franchise are automatically put on a lower level when the company revolves itself around one character -.- hence the title of the newest installment "Lightning Returns" (makes me wanna face palm every time i read it) I never said she was better than any of the characters i listed at all, and i never said she was on a higher level than any of them. Hence the term "others" just because their put on a lower level of overratedness does not make them bad characters, just overlooked :monster:

[Sephiroth]

I said "the others" i never mentioned Cloud's name though so clearly you've misunderstood me. And of course most characters of the franchise are automatically put on a lower level when the company revolves itself around one character -.- hence the title of the newest installment "Lightning Returns" (makes me wanna face palm every time i read it) I never said she was better than any of the characters i listed at all, and i never said she was on a higher level than any of them. Hence the term "others" just because their put on a lower level of overratedness does not make them bad characters, just overlooked :monster:

It is called Lightning Returns because of the character development Lightning got after all that time.

[Aulayna]

I'm fairly sure I kicked all of their asses on Dissidia with Yuna, so.. I'm with Shauna on this one.

[Sephiroth]

I'm fairly sure I kicked all of their asses on Dissidia with Yuna, so.. I'm with Shauna on this one.

Yeah, she will dance them to death and send them at the same time, ha, ha.

[CarvingUp360]

Just because you played as a certain character and beat the game with that character doesn't prove that their the best in the entire series. I could play as Cloud, kick every other character's ass in the game and beat the whole thing with him. Does that prove that he's the best? No. You're comment does not prove anything dude xD

[Sephiroth]

... dude xD

Aulayna is no dude. I am the dude. And this guy:

https://www.google.de/search?q=Big+Lebowski&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=EdWjUtrZCsjNswbMoYDABg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=605

[CarvingUp360]

How am i supposed to know that? -.-

[Ayen]

We just need to convince Square to give us a Fatal Four Way between them, or get Screw Attack on this.

[Sephiroth]

Screw Attack

No, just no.

[CarvingUp360]

We just need to convince Square to give us a Fatal Four Way between them, or get Screw Attack on this.

I like the fatal four way idea :monster:

[Sephiroth]

Squall and Cloud - Blitzball - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjnlbyuOl5g)

[CarvingUp360]

But i dont like the screw attack. That just sounds a bit gay.

[Ayen]

Squall and Cloud - Blitzball - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjnlbyuOl5g)

LMAO! That was hilarious! To make it even better my dad walked in and called Tidus a broad while he was in the water.

[CarvingUp360]

Too bad they only have 3 videos :/

[Elskidor]

This thread has gone....crazy.

[Sephiroth]

This thread has gone....crazy.

S.S.H. - Johnny C. Bad(Final Fantasy VI) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfSDhnuMPQQ)

Crazy Bar Brawl Music.

[CarvingUp360]

I love how everyone has gone completely off topic xD

[Forsaken Lover]

All of them die when FFX The After Years comes out and we learn that the boss of that game destroyed FFVII, VIII and IX. Literally, your disks will be melted, any emulated copies you have will cause your computer to burst into flames, and the final boss of FFX TAY - Motomu Toriyama - will be laughing and laughing.

Defeat him in five minutes or less and unlock secret final boss Rightning!

Defeat her in five minutes and unlock TRUE final boss Waifu Rightning!