Alien vs. Aliens

[Forsaken Lover]

Aliens was a fun action movie but it was pretty bland besides that.

Alien was a much better film, with a much more likable cast.

But the real problem with Aliens, and why Alien is superior, is the alien itself/themselves.

I dislike how the Alien's intelligence and threat level is directly proportional to how many there are. A single Alien like in the first movie, or even like in *shudders* Aliens 3 is a forced to be reckoned with and could easily outsmart the buffoons in Aliens who are about as 80s Action Hero as you can get. We're talking Arnold in Predator-levels of competence where he says "Knock knock!" after opening a door on an enemy in his raid on their camp.

Yet you have a bunch of them together and suddenly they adopt Zapp Brannigan's intelligence and strategy

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Why did they just keep rushing the sentry guns until the sentry guns were out of bullets?

That single alien in Alien was a greater threat than the whole damn hive in Aliens.

[Pike]

These are both great movies but Aliens had Vasquez and also Bishop.

Also the script was perfect. Everything about Aliens was just perfect. I think it's my favorite movie of all time.

(The Commodore 64 adaptation was also perfect.)

[Madame Adequate]

It may be because Alien is a survival horror movie in space whilst Aliens is an action movie.

Also Aliens defined almost every action movie trope and convention there is.

Also Aliens is an absolutely superb, seminal movie.

Also it's probably fair that a single alien on a ship of what, seven people, who have no idea what's going on, is able to pose more danger than a bunch of aliens can to trained, equipped space marines who have some knowledge of what they're getting into.

Also hardly anyone survives Aliens so I can't see how it can be said they're not dangerous.

[Shauna]

It may be because Alien is a survival horror movie in space whilst Aliens is an action movie.

I was coming in to say this. x}

I love them both, they're both amazing films, but I enjoy Aliens so much more.

[Forsaken Lover]

It may be because Alien is a survival horror movie in space whilst Aliens is an action movie.

Also Aliens defined almost every action movie trope and convention there is.

Also Aliens is an absolutely superb, seminal movie.

Also it's probably fair that a single alien on a ship of what, seven people, who have no idea what's going on, is able to pose more danger than a bunch of aliens can to trained, equipped space marines who have some knowledge of what they're getting into.

Also hardly anyone survives Aliens so I can't see how it can be said they're not dangerous.

A Xenomorph is far deadlier than any human being and they outnumbered he humans how many to 1? 10:1? Hardly any humans survived but they still survived and it was after taking down scores of these far superior predators. Hell, their leader and a lot of theri group dies in just the initial attack yet somehow the survivors, with less equipment and fewer numbers, puts up a greater offensive. That makes sense.

And like I said, we aren't talking real soldiers here. We are talking Hollywood's idea of soldiers. The bad guys in Die Hard were more competent.

Neither movie is exactly astounding in terms of plot so you have to care about the characters and it's kind of hard to care about a bunch of macho morons who exist to be fed to the Xenos. I felt far more attached to the crew of The Nostromo.

[Mercen-X]

People aren't big fans of truth in fiction. It's fiction. Why go out of your way to make it as real as possible? If there are no survivors, where does the story come from? And of course, the victors decide how the story goes. Action movies aren't built to earn the audience's attachment to the characters. Action movies are about things going boom! Save your attachment for the hordes of "innocent" people unknowingly walking to their death in a survival/horror movie.

[Ayen]

Hmm... On one hand you have a lot of action and different kinds of aliens leading up to the final showdown with the Queen. But on the other hand you get to see Sigourney Weaver's butt.

It's a close call.

[Crop]

I'm pretty confused as to why you think the Alien has taken a nosedive in intelligence in this movie compared to the first and third one.

1. The Aliens killed the hundreds of colonists on the planet already, no mean feat I'm sure, what with their initially inferior numbers. That shows intelligence and cunning.
2. When the Marines landed, this was a clearly well armed, well trained group of men. Sensing this, the Aliens were smart enough to stay out of sight and lure them into their hive and kill the majority of them with minimal casualties to themselves.
3. They then managed to destroy the survivors incoming ship and (at the time) only escape route.
4. The survivors then barricaded themselves in. The Aliens had likely never come up against assault guns before and didn't know of another way in, which explains why they charge the guns. When this was proving too costly they retreated and managed to find another way in that even the humans had missed.

Yes the Xenomorph may be deadlier, but they don't have guns, bombs and other weaponry. I'm sure a heavyweight boxing champion could kill me with ease if he wanted to, but put him at the other end of a room and give me a gun and he wouldn't stand a chance (odd example but the principle is the same).
Also bare in mind that the Aliens are traversing a territory that has been built by humans to cater for humans being defended by humans.
They're not up against weak, unprepared, unarmed humans like in the first and third films, yet still manage to kill the majority of the cast.


Aliens is indeed the superior movie anyway.

Also, since I met, spoke with and got the autograph of Lance Henriksen, the movie is that much more enjoyable for me to watch.

[Slothy]

1. The Aliens killed the hundreds of colonists on the planet already, no mean feat I'm sure, what with their initially inferior numbers. That shows intelligence and cunning.
2. When the Marines landed, this was a clearly well armed, well trained group of men. Sensing this, the Aliens were smart enough to stay out of sight and lure them into their hive and kill the majority of them with minimal casualties to themselves.
3. They then managed to destroy the survivors incoming ship and (at the time) only escape route.
4. The survivors then barricaded themselves in. The Aliens had likely never come up against assault guns before and didn't know of another way in, which explains why they charge the guns. When this was proving too costly they retreated and managed to find another way in that even the humans had missed.

I like Alien more myself, but there's no denying the greatness of Aliens, and those xenomorphs were god damn strategic geniuses. Just geniuses without automatic weapons and high explosives.

[Forsaken Lover]

So they're smart enough to wipe out a majority of the marines but then they get killed by the handful of survivors? That doesn't help their case ya know. If they were so smart, they should have been able to finish off the suddenly less well-equipped and outnumbered humans which included Bill Paxon pissing himself, a civilian woman, a leader who was paralyzed with panic... People need to stop making it out like these were legitimate badasses. They were the proto-Mobile Infantry from the movie version of Starship Troopers.

[Crop]

So they're smart enough to wipe out a majority of the marines but then they get killed by the handful of survivors? That doesn't help their case ya know. If they were so smart, they should have been able to finish off the suddenly less well-equipped and outnumbered humans which included Bill Paxon pissing himself, a civilian woman, a leader who was paralyzed with panic... People need to stop making it out like these were legitimate badasses. They were the proto-Mobile Infantry from the movie version of Starship Troopers.

Let's be clear here, they were not killed by the survivors. There is a failure in one of the systems on the planet and they are killed by the accidental destruction of the colony. I don't think anyone is claiming the survivors are badass killers who make the Aliens look stupid except you.
After the initial Alien ambush, the atmosphere is one of desperation and loss. The survivors manage to throw up a hasty defense and then they...run away. They only ever talk of escape.
I'm honestly wondering if we're talking of the same movie here, the only time you could call the Marines badass is at the beginning, which is obviously supposed to be over the top to highlight how little they understand about the dangers they're walking in to.

[Madame Adequate]

Well, I think we can all agree that Ripley is a badass killer, but she's the exception.

[Ayen]

Ripley's so badass that in the end the only one she had left to do in was herself.

[Skyblade]

These are both great movies but Aliens had Vasquez and also Bishop.

Also the script was perfect. Everything about Aliens was just perfect. I think it's my favorite movie of all time.

(The Commodore 64 adaptation was also perfect.)

I disagree. Aliens is great, but not perfect. I loathe and detest how unprofessional the soldiers are, especially given the cultural impact the movie has had on shaping the view of the space marine in general.

That said, Aliens is the superior film of the two. I suppose a horror nut may disagree, but to the rest of the world, the answer is clear.

[Forsaken Lover]

"The rest of the world" as in the people who made Titanic and Avatar two of the best-selling movies of all time no doubt.

[Vyk]

I need to re-watch these movies~

[Bubba]

This is definitely for me the closest call with any movie and its sequel. They are both incredible films and my favourites of both Ridley Scott and James Cameron. When you consider the quality of films they have both delivered (especially Scott) then that is saying something.

Alien is just dripping with atmosphere and tension. Also, It's the first space movie I saw where the characters were just real, down-to-earth people as opposed to predictable, intelligent military types. They would have regular conversations like you and me with sly digs and innuendo. Once the alien is loose though the atmosphere is immense. With Dallas crawling through those tunnels, Ripley inching around corners... I still get tense watching it now.

Aliens is a completely different film but it was done to perfection. The cast of characters were amazing and again the atmosphere was terrific. Bishop was my favourite, I preferred him to Ian Holm's chilling android in the original. The soundtrack was perfect as well, pounding and pulsating to work perfectly with the awesome action. That bit where the facehugger tries to attack Burke in that glass case makes me jump. Every. Single. Time.

For me I would just give the nod to Alien but Aliens is such a quality film it really is as close a call as it gets.

It's a shame that Alien 3 turned out the way it did, especially with David Fincher at the helm. The studio executives interfered so much with that movie that Fincher has disassociated himself from it in every way. I'd love to see how it would have turned out if they'd given him a free reign.

[Night Fury]

For me it has to be Alien.

Don't get me wrong, I adore Aliens so much too.

But the first was just.... it just completely blew my mind for the reasons that Bubba said. It's got so much atmosphere.

[LunarWeaver]

"Get away from her, you bitch!"

[Pike]

These are both great movies but Aliens had Vasquez and also Bishop.

Also the script was perfect. Everything about Aliens was just perfect. I think it's my favorite movie of all time.

(The Commodore 64 adaptation was also perfect.)

I disagree. Aliens is great, but not perfect. I loathe and detest how unprofessional the soldiers are, especially given the cultural impact the movie has had on shaping the view of the space marine in general.

Okay but the Commodore 64 adaptation was still perfect and had the best music.

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[sharkythesharkdogg]

They're both great in their own ways, but I had to vote the original.

The first chestburster with Kane will always be a classic freak out.

If I understand correctly, the actors and actresses didn't know exactly how the scene was going to play out, or what the Alien would look like, they just were told the Alien would first appear somehow. Also, the special effect internals they used for Kane were actually real blood and scraps picked up from a butcher shop, that had started to go rancid from sitting around on set for a day or two. So it's my understanding that the looks of shock on their faces were pretty authentic because they didn't know exactly what was going to happen, and then they got hit with rancid blood and chicken livers.


That's how you make a horror movie. :kakapo:

[Loony BoB]

Agree with the general assessment that they're both amazing. Agree with the people who are saying that Alien edges it, although it's hard to really say that either of them are "worse than the other" because they're so amazingly different in their nature.

Also, regarding the intellect of the alien, they are very smart at being dangerous killers, but that doesn't mean it's suddenly surprising that they can be beaten by humans. I would still say that the humans are smarter overall. It's like being put into a cage with a large number of dangerous animals. The animals can kill the humans but that doesn't mean they're smarter than humans. Strength comes into play. The exoskeleton is still a creature I would say is smarter than your average animal, particularly when it comes to strategy, but I wouldn't put them on Predator/Human level of intelligence.

Also, Forsaken, you criticise the alien intelligence in your first post for throwing large numbers of aliens into the fray to get taken down by sentry guns and then stopping when they run out of bullets. However, it should be noted that the aliens didn't know the bullets had run out (I believe there were something like four bullets left? xD). Also, compare the situation to humans. How many times would an army charge into battle just to get massacred? These things do happen. Likewise, a single human can take down multiple other humans. It's not unusual to suggest that one alien can differ from the many aliens in a similar way.

[Forsaken Lover]

That's a fair point and a poster on another site pointed out some things too, like the way the alien in the first film tended to act for Rule of Scary at times and wasn't always a super practical killing machine.

But what I will NOT change my mind on is that the cast of Alien is so much better. The marines in Aliens are caricatures and two-dimensional. The Nostromo crew you can empathize with because they are just working stiffs. They have a touch of realism about them that none of the marines do.

And when we compare villains...can anyone say Burke over Ash? Ash was probably the best performance in the movie, rivaling Ripley herself.

[Skyblade]

That's a fair point and a poster on another site pointed out some things too, like the way the alien in the first film tended to act for Rule of Scary at times and wasn't always a super practical killing machine.

But what I will NOT change my mind on is that the cast of Alien is so much better. The marines in Aliens are caricatures and two-dimensional. The Nostromo crew you can empathize with because they are just working stiffs. They have a touch of realism about them that none of the marines do.

And when we compare villains...can anyone say Burke over Ash? Ash was probably the best performance in the movie, rivaling Ripley herself.

As I said, the cast, especially the marines, were the movie's biggest flaw, in my eyes.

That doesn't mean that it's a bad movie, or that I don't enjoy it far more. One of the best action movies of all time next to one of the best horror films of all time. Which is better comes down to which genre you prefer, and most people prefer action. Especially with how good the horror in Alien can be.


"The rest of the world" as in the people who made Titanic and Avatar two of the best-selling movies of all time no doubt.

Not exactly sure what you're trying to say here. You quote my line, and seem to make a dismissive point about the demographic I refer to only being two people, and yet you then go on to point out that James Cameron's films are among the best selling of all time (which indicates that the rest of the world really likes his films as well). I'm honestly not sure whether you're agreeing with me or being dismissive.

That said, I think Avatar is a despicable piece of cinema. Not only is it a blatant ripoff of Dances With Wolves (which was admitted in court), it takes the stupidity to an extreme degree by having a spacefaring faction driven off by a planet-bound race, which simply cannot happen. You'd think the guy who gave us the line "Pull out and nuke them from orbit. Only way to be sure." would realize that.

[Forsaken Lover]

My mentioning Avatar and Titanic was just to show that Cameron's films have mass appeal but not exactly a lot in the way of legitimate depth or quality. Tis explains why Aliens is a lot more beloved than Alien to my eyes.

[Slothy]

My mentioning Avatar and Titanic was just to show that Cameron's films have mass appeal but not exactly a lot in the way of legitimate depth or quality. Tis explains why Aliens is a lot more beloved than Alien to my eyes.

As much as I would agree with you on those films, Terminator 2 would like a word. ;)

[Ayen]

Terminator 2 would also like everyone to forget Terminator 3 and Terminator 4 ever happened.

[Pike]

As a writer I cannot say anything bad about James Cameron because the man knows how to tell a story. "But Pike his stories are generic and boring hurrr" Yes but I have never seen anyone take so-called "generic tropes" and build them up so well. Watching a James Cameron movie is like watching someone draw a perfect circle. Circles have been around for billions of years and these days are not exactly artistically groundbreaking or interesting on an aesthetic level but the fact that some people can just whip a perfect one up freehand is a marvel in and of itself.

I don't expect anyone here to agree with me but :greenie: When it comes to storytelling I am an "architect" first and foremost and I am more interested in the building process than the finished result.

As an aside I can hardly remember any of the cast from the first film but I do fondly remember the cast from the second! (This is not to bash "Alien" in anyway; I'm just not seeing the "better characters" argument)

[Ayen]

As a writer I cannot say anything bad about James Cameron because the man knows how to tell a story. "But Pike his stories are generic and boring hurrr" Yes but I have never seen anyone take so-called "generic tropes" and build them up so well. Watching a James Cameron movie is like watching someone draw a perfect circle. Circles have been around for billions of years and these days are not exactly artistically groundbreaking or interesting on an aesthetic level but the fact that some people can just whip a perfect one up freehand is a marvel in and of itself.

Makes sense to me. I don't remember jack about Titanic, but I immensely enjoyed Avatar despite how generic it was. I was also impressed Michelle Rodriguez didn't die in it. She's always dying when I see her.

[Skyblade]

Terminator 2 would also like everyone to forget Terminator 3 and Terminator 4 ever happened.

I had forgotten 4 had ever happened until you mentioned it. Never saw a reason to go see that one.

[Bubba]

I was also impressed Michelle Rodriguez didn't die in it. She's always dying when I see her.

Erm... She did die. She was shot out of the sky in the battle at the end.

[Laddy]

Alien for me, always one of my favorites.

[Ayen]

I was also impressed Michelle Rodriguez didn't die in it. She's always dying when I see her.

Erm... She did die. She was shot out of the sky in the battle at the end.

Must have been thinking about something else. Meh, they'll bring her back.

She always come back...

[Bubba]

Meh, they'll bring her back.

She always come back...

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