"Epic fail" vs "Epic failure"

[SuperMillionaire]

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/the_good_word/2008/10/epic_win.html

In internet slang, a "fail" is basically a mistake or something gone wrong, and an "epic fail" is a extremely bad mistake, or something gone extremely horribly wrong. In proper English, the word is used in a grammatically incorrect manner; "to fail" is a verb, but it is used as a noun, even though the grammatically correct word would be "failure."

While the use of the term "epic fail" is more common, I've noticed some people, less commonly, use the grammatically correct term "epic failure." Keep in mind that between the two, the latter was used first; references to the meme date as far back as 2003, but it was not until the end of the 2000s and the beginning of the 2010s when it became prominent. Initially, the words "fail" and "failure" were still used in the grammatically correct manner, and gave rise to the term "epic failure," which later evolved into the grammatically incorrect "epic fail."

Also in internet slang, the opposite of "fail" is "win," though in grammatically correct English, "fail" and "win" are not antonyms (the official term for opposite words); the opposite of "fail" would be "pass," and the opposite of "win" would be "loss" or "lose."

Thus, the usage of the word "fail" in internet slang is a grammatical "failure" in itself.

Which word do you use? "Fail" or "Failure?"

[Agent Proto]

Your failure to see the irony in epic fail amuses me. :)

[noxious.sunshine]

Your failure to see the irony in epic fail amuses me. :)

[Shorty]

I get the internet slang/irony (or whatever you want to call it) with "epic fail", but I'd still prefer "epic failure".

But I don't use either of these because it's not 2004 anymore.

[Psychotic]

But I don't use either of these because it's not 2004 anymore.I don't use either of these because I'm not a twat. Moar lulz plox.

[Bubba]

Neither.

I would either use "your attempt at completing said task was largely unsuccessful" or... "you royally fucked up there"

[Pumpkin]

I just say "You fail at life." But not often.

[sharkythesharkdogg]

I usually say "Ouch.", but my perspective is from the other side of things.

[Ayen]

But I don't use either of these because it's not 2004 anymore.

Just because you can't time travel doesn't mean you have to ruin things for the rest of us.

[Quindiana Jones]

I use "Nice one, Dave."

[Shorty]

But I don't use either of these because it's not 2004 anymore.

Just because you can't time travel doesn't mean you have to ruin things for the rest of us.

Am I ruining it for the rest of you? Good.

[Dr Unne]

I say "fail" IRL. I also say "IRL" IRL. I hope it pains people to hear. Your tears are delicious.

[Jiro]

IRL is a pointless term that undermines the importance of our ever increasingly online interactions. Therefore, meatspace.

Epic Fail has become itself a singular noun. Even though it is not grammatically correct using standardised English, it is an example of the evolution of language. In cases like this, I am content with the term, as the intent is still obvious and is not its own antonym.

[krissy]

the last internet slang i used in real life was yoop
i learned my lesson then

[SuperMillionaire]

What does IRL stand for?

And "epic failure" is a noun; I forgot to add that as a verb, in grammatically correct English, you would say "to epically fail." Usage of "epic failure" also dates back even before the words "fail" and "epic fail" became internet memes.

[Ayen]

What does IRL stand for?

In real life.

[Bubba]

What does IRL stand for?

Integrating Rural Lobsters

[SuperMillionaire]

I'll accept "in real life."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/09/magazine/09FOB-onlanguage-t.html?_r=0

Anyway, sometimes, I feel as though some are going overboard with it, constantly saying the word "FAIL!" in ALL CAPS as an interjection. Whether something goes wrong or you disapprove of something, people say "FAIL!" a lot. And if it's really bad, they'll say "EPIC FAIL!" Why fail instead of failure? Why ALL CAP-italized FAIL instead of regular lower-cased fail? Also, when something goes right, it's not a "win;" it's a "pass" (a term that comes from academics) or "success," which brings me to my next point: when someone makes a grammatical mistake, sometimes they say "grammar fail!," which is a grammatical failure in itself. Get your grammar right everybody, or you fail basic English grammar forever!

Some people, including myself, have occasionally implemented the term into standard English, often as a pun on the meme, albeit modified in order to be grammatically correct; as a noun, it is "an epic failure," and as a verb, it is "to epically fail." Note that the words "epic failure" and "epically fail" actually predate the FAIL meme.

[Mirage]

Why? Because it is shorter. It's that simple. /thread

[Shauna]

Note that the words "epic failure" and "epically fail" actually predate the FAIL meme.

You're right. The existence of these words do indeed predate an internet meme.

[Mirage]

Know what else predates the internet itself? The words "laugh out loud" and "cats". Crazy, right? Maybe there is some sort of pattern...

[Jiro]

I'm all for the evolution of language. Using "win" implies a certain level of metaphor which I find to be uncharacteristically clever of the internet.

I'm gonna do that asshole thing right now but as a guy who is helping create an online grammar course I think you'll find the prevailing trend is towards a descriptivist approach. Obviously there's resistance against hugely horrific changes in grammar but some things ain't that bad, yo.

[SuperMillionaire]

You don't "win" anything unless it's a game or contest, which is why I would suggest replacing "win" with "pass," a term carried over from academics as the opposite of "fail." And the opposite of "win" is "lose."

[Jiro]

Yes, and life is a game. You just need to know how to play it. Or whatever.

Say these out loud: "Epic Pass" and "Epic Failure". Do they sound as vibrant and emotive? Language is not about simply being right; it's about communication of ideas, and the terms already in use are more than satisfactory. They don't damage language. Anybody who thinks that the internet should speak academia is really barking up the wrong tree.

[SuperMillionaire]

True, but still, I think "win" should only be used when some sort of prize is involved, and the opposite of "win" is "lose." Some people also, although less commonly, use "epic lose" as well.

And here's a video in which the grammatically correct term "EPIC FAILURE!" is used; this video is about failed test scores in school:

EPIC FAILURE! Common Core School Covers-Up Failing Test Scores - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6cfgjcjhqE)

Let's also remember that as a verb, the correct term would be "to epically fail."

[Loony BoB]

I simply say "Haha, fail." in such instances. I don't need to add any further words.

[Jiro]

I simply say "Haha, fail." in such instances. I don't need to add any further words.

But under the prescriptivist model that SuperMillionaire is advocating, fail acts as a verb and so you would be wishing someone to fail and as such your tense would be incorrect and apparently we are unable to infer your meaning despite it conforming to a fluid and descriptivist understanding of the way the English language works.

I find it hard to get on board with total prescriptivists because the hidden implication in their approach is that Shakespeare was utter trout. If language is not allowed to evolve than what we are prescribing is a falsehood; we ought to ask Chaucer to come back and "fix" English.

Personal preferences are fine; I do not mind a bit of flexibility in the way we use our language. I just find it strange to focus on something like this. Trying to combat viral internet memes is an impossible undertaking.

[SuperMillionaire]

True, fighting an internet meme is impossible, but what about starting a new internet meme? How about PASS?

[Shauna]

Forcing memes is generally a fail.

[Agent Proto]

You can try to "PASS" this new meme yourself, but it's bound to become an "EPIC FAIL"

[Parker]

hey its me parker again just dropping into this excellent thread with one of my celebrated EPIC WIN posts

well see ya