End-Game Discussion (MASSIVE SPOILERS, obvs)

[maybee]

Final/ Last chapter thoughts


This game was so enjoyable ! So good ! And then they ruin it all by trying to make the game longer, by pulling a different universe trout on you. The different universes don't even look at least one bit different, it's just the same world. The last chapters are basically go and defeat the four crystal fiends again, and again, and again. Never been so upset over something. I might try and end this sometime later when have enough energy to take on the same bosses, at least 3 times I think.

Though I think that Airy is the main villain, which is fantastic because I've hated her since the beginning and her annoying Navi like, telling you where to go and do next, and then her whining and yelling in later chapters. It's going to be nice to kill her off, if she is the big bad. But the whole do- the-same-bosses-again and again thing.


SQUARE ENIX WHY ?

WE COULD OF HAD IT ALL

[Shauna]

You can just destroy the crystals and end the game - you just won't get true end. I believe from Ch5 onwards? I'll let Mr Shauna fill you in with further details for this, as I haven't actually played, but he bitched about it for ages at me. He was so mad about how this game ended. xD

[Dat Matt]

You can just destroy the crystals and end the game - you just won't get true end. I believe from Ch5 onwards? I'll let Mr Shauna fill you in with further details for this, as I haven't actually played, but he bitched about it for ages at me. He was so mad about how this game ended. xD

This is about right. I did bitch and argue.

I never noticed you could break the crystals during chapters 5-7 and eventually by chapter 8 I was so done with re-fighting the bosses that i grinded to level 99 in the earth temple, maxed out all the jobs and blitzed the game. Breaking the crystals leads you straight to the final dungeon, and I was so happy to see if after the 3rd Cycle. After reading up online this wasn't true ending, I grit my teeth and jumped back into get true ending. Extended the game by another 3 hours.

Also when you find out the truth, the game's subtitle changes at the title screen from "Where the Fairy Flies". Have a look out for it.

[Shauna]

Skyblade made a fair point - continue your discussion of not-first-impressions here.

[maybee]

So how many re- do's do you have to suffer through if you want to see the true ending ?? It sounds like alot, if Shauna went to level 99 :/


Yes can understand so much the anger and frustration about this game. Is the ending worth it ? You can spoil that for me, I don't care too much anymore.

[Dat Matt]

So how many re- do's do you have to suffer through if you want to see the true ending ?? It sounds like alot, if Shauna went to level 99 :/


Yes can understand so much the anger and frustration about this game. Is the ending worth it ? You can spoil that for me, I don't care too much anymore.

Breakdown is basically you re-do the crystals a grand total of 5 times. That's 20x boss battles and 20x Airy giving you the words of encouragement when you awaken the crystals. The ending occurs when you either break a crystal, or awaken them for the 20th time. At which point Airy turns out to be and evil millennium old demon hell bent on world destruction. He subtitle changes from "Where the fairy flies" to "Airy Lies" which I thought was actually amazing.

Ending has you fight Airy and her 2 or three forms before she cries out for her master whom I think is called Beelzebub. However the game ends there. True ending is where you fight Airy, and then the 5 forms of Beelzebub before saving da world. This then triggers the story related to fighting end boss, as well as a Gyro scoped controlled cut scene leading into the sequel "Bravely Second".

Pro Tip - The final Job class is available in chapter 6, during the 3rd loop called the conjourer. At level 13 the conjourer learns the ability obliterate which defeat any enemies 20 levels below you instantly. It is a grinding godsend as i just ran around mashing a for a while until I maxed all the jobs. Was watching anime or something at the time, didn't even pay much attention to the game while it gave me free points.

[NeoCracker]

And I'll put this here so someone doesn't see a spoiler by mistake when scrolling over the thread title. :p

So, I beat the game a while ago, and I must say, what the serious smurf? There was so much wrong with this.

Firstly, i got both endings, the one where you blow up a crystal and just defeat Airy and what not, and the one where you link all the worlds, defeat Airy, and then take on her master Ouroborus.

To start with, this was a serious waste of having multiple worlds. Essentially every world you come across is almost 100% Identical, save for a few minor variations here and there, nothing of consequence.

Secondly, how do the Derossa and Sage Yulyana of the worlds you go to later know anything? The ones in your world know because the Agnes of the previous world appeared their with 'the evil one' airy, and told them of what happened. That hasn't happened in these worlds. There should be know portrait of an angel, unless somehow she crash landed in ALL worlds, which doesn't seem to make much sense.

Thirdly, every DeRossa and every Sage in every world experienced the exact same events, came to the exact same conclusions, and formulated the exact same plan, and somehow knew that the others of all other worlds had also formulated the exact same plan? smurfing really? Even if you ignore the nonsense of the additional worlds knowing about Airy and these things and everything, this is some trout pulled straight out of the ass.

Fourth up, how did they even know about Ouroborus? Did Airy sit down and explain, in detail, everything about her master before leaving previous worlds? How did Agnes know any of this to be able to tell DeRossa and Yulyana enough about Ouroborus to even formulate this plan?

I could go on, but this whole ended was just a cluster smurf.

Edit: Just as an aside to that, at what point did you guess Airy was the villain? That was my first thought when Olivia, the water vestal, didn't seem to know what a Cryst-Fairy was. :p

[Skyblade]

Son of a...


I came into this thread thinking I was in the Lightning Returns forum. I was so hoping to go unspoiled. This is what I get for browsing half asleep. :(

That said, it basically confirms my worst fear about the game, one that has been steadily growing the longer I played it. Since this is a Square game, I've been worried the whole game that the anti-Crystalists would turn out to be on the right side, while you are the villains of the piece. Why, Square?

[Shauna]

I will just merge this thread with the existing End-Game discussion thread. :p

[NeoCracker]

Wow, how did I not notice this thread? XD

[Shauna]

Ovelooked this thread, ruined everything for Skyblade; all in a day's work.

[Fynn]

You monster.

[NeoCracker]

To add on to problems I have with the game, the Eternian generals you fight are a little... TOO evil.

I mean I understand being ruthless, but we have a White Mage who is a fucking sadist, a Monk who likes to break peoples faces for fun, Salve-Maker Qada who pulls a Kefka and poisons everyone, and using a mine full of children as human shields has been a common military practice for months.

Especially that last one. I mean seriously, what the fuck? These are the guys who are 'right?'. They pushed it way to damn far and expected us to believe they were fighting in the right at the end there.

[Fynn]

Were we playing the same game? The one I'm playing goes out of its way to show that neither side is right, that they both have virtues and faults, and only Airy is truly evil. Also, the boss battles in the other worlds really flesh out the characters of the Eternian generals. The only one who remains a complete sociopath is Qada.

[NeoCracker]

...Yeah, regardless of World, that White Mage was a freakin' Sociopath. And that Monk was violent as fuck.

And Vincent was relentlassly vicious as well, even if he at least had a back story that made sense with that.

Also, 'Right' may not be the best word there. They are fighting for a good and noble cause, yet it's hard to sympathize with them when they employ people like Qada, Vincent, the White Mage and Monk (I can't remember their names for the life of me), and even the Black Mage guy, whose torching civilian homes.

And even if there were not that many, they got away with using children as a human shield for months Yes I harp on that because it is fucking horrifying. And this was carried out under Kamiizumi, a guy who seems very reasonable, level headed, and has a strong drive to not do horrid shit. It doesn't seem likely he simply didn't know about it, so even if he himself isn't that bad a guy, he let that happen.

I only get the impression a few of them are actually fighting for the greater good. Being The Templar himself, Einheria, Kamiizumi, and Alternis Dim. Half the rest are just assholes, the rest are there for purely selfish reasons.

[Fynn]

That's the main point this game is making, in my opinion. In war, even if the cause is noble, a lot of people taking part in it will do so for bad reasons. And while she's a sadist and he's very violent, Holly and Barras do have a softer, more honorable side, which can best be seen in worlds 3 and 4. Ominas also gets to show a more human side there. All these characters are pretty layered, even if they do reprehensible things. That's what makes this the most interesting to me, to be honest.

[Skyblade]

I'll add in Kyoko to the list of good guys. Sure, she's an Assassin, but apparently she felt bad about her actions, considering it a personal failing that she couldn't save the Fire Vestal, as well as accepting her death as justice for her actions.

And that is important. You may have to do evil things for a good reason. That's what the entire Eisengard arc is about. Fighting a war, and the utter evils of warfare, while also showing that doing nothing would be worse. That entire story is about Agnes coming to the realization that sometimes war needs to be fought, and even someone dedicated to a peaceful life needs to help where she can.

As Kamiizumi says, the wind vestal is, in a way, the same as the Grand Marshall. Both hold true to their mission and ideals and fight for them.

The difference is in the mission and ideals each character holds. Smurf, man, look at the sort of people who become officers, even high commanders, of your forces. Look at what your mission actually is, or what it entails.

I don't care how good your intentions are, when you need to institutionalize the rape of an entire nation, you are not the good guys (no, I still haven't beaten it, so please don't detail an explanation if the game gives one, but I fail to see how that can ever be ok).

When Qada is the least sadistic of your healers, you are not the good guys. Qada was a completely amoral scientist, but was doing things for experimentation or victory. Holly breaks people's minds for fun, and Victor enjoys people being hurt, as long as he can keep Victoria ok.

When even your "noble" officers are slaughtering non-combatants in the street without qualms, you are not the good guys.

And when individuals who delight in causing pain, murdering people outright, torturing their coworkers, and who lack even a facade of empathy can rise to be your lieutenants and closest advisors, you are not the good guy.

Good intentions only go so far. Eternia is frelled up from top to bottom.

Also, characters in other worlds would be an alternative version. They are not the same individual, and thus their rationale cannot be proof of what the original believes, anymore than that holds true for the Star Trek characters from the "evil" dimension (for example).

[NeoCracker]

The problem I have isn't that a lot of them take part for bad reasons, it's that most of them do. And worse yet, there really is no reason to allow these bad things to happen. How does Ominous torching civilian homes help matters any? What good does sending people like Victoria out, who has shown an inablility to not kill people she isn't suppose to be killing out serve? Most of these horrible things that are happening don't serve the Braev's purpose in the slightest, yet still he just lets them happen.

[Fynn]

For Braev, the end justifies the means. And that is the main problem here. He orders killing innocent Crystalists, even if they pose no threat, if that's what it takes to stop the religion from spreading. I never said they were the good guys - this game really gets morally gray. While Braev is ruthless, his motives are understandable, and though that makes us see him as human, it doesn't make his acts and commands any less reprehensible. The other world versions are the same characters, to me, just molded slightly differently by the circumstances. Plus, those stories do give more insight into their entire characters. Take Mephilia. It later turns out she was a psychotic nihilist due to the loss of her lover. In world 4 she's stable, as she has the drive to come to terms with his death.

Also, can we talk about one more thing? Am I the only one who saw the Ringabel reveal from miles away?

[NeoCracker]

...That he came from another world, or that he was Dim? Cause I don't think there was any foreshadowing to multiple worlds, unless I missed it entirely. I didn't see that one coming, no. Only the Airy twist. :p

And yeah, I disagree that it is morally grey in the slightest. THe ends may justify the means, but the problem is the means that are employed half the time don't aid him towards his end. There is no grey area here, what he is doing and allowing to be done is down right wrong. Allowing bad things to happen in the name of the greater good only works when they are necessary for your goal, or at the very least help it.

This was probably more bad writing on the part of the designers then their intent, or at least that's my guess. Mind you, there is still plenty of the game that is written well, but that is just a weak spot of writing for me. :p

[Fynn]

But he believes what he is doing is right and, to some degree, it is. He wants the Orthodoxy to fall for his own personal vindictive reasons, but he also knows what will happen if the Crystals get awoken, so he sees this as a means of preventing that. But, like I said, though killing innocent believers will at one point put an end to the religion, it is an extremely heinous act. I think it's gray, even if a very dark shade, because, ultimately, he believes he's doing the world good and, to a certain degree, one might argue that he is, considering that if the party wasn't there, awakening the Crystals would have been much worse than letting them stay dark.

And yes, I meant Dim. The voice sounded familiar, and that moment when he first appears on the Eschalot and Ringabel oh-so-conveniently has to go belowdecks. That was a dead giveaway for me.

[Skyblade]

If the characters are forged through different circumstances, how are they the same characters? If one Mephilia is an insane sadist, and the other is a strong, driven woman, how can you say they are the same person. They may have started from the same point, but they grew up into different results. And our world has to deal with its own people. The fact that we may all be nicer people in another dimension doesn't excuse someone from being a sadistic mass murderer in this one.

Also, it's really sounding more and more to me like the writing fell apart just so that Square could make religion the nemesis. Again. The story may do a good job of setting up the Anti-Crystalists as sympathetic villains, but as soon as you try to make them not villains, it becomes an epic failure.

[Fynn]

It actually doesn't set up religion as a nemesis. The only nemesis is Airy, and she's more a false prophet than anything else. It just makes you question your motives a bit, which I find pretty clever. The Anti-Crystalists are not made to be completely sympathetic, but human. The church is corrupt, but the religion isn't wrong. I love it.

[Skyblade]

It actually doesn't set up religion as a nemesis. The only nemesis is Airy, and she's more a false prophet than anything else. It just makes you question your motives a bit, which I find pretty clever. The Anti-Crystalists are not made to be completely sympathetic, but human. The church is corrupt, but the religion isn't wrong. I love it.

Then wiping Crystalists off the map is not an acceptable course of action, which both of you made it out to be.

Also, I got the Dim thing the first time I read through the journal (which took a bit, I wasn't aware of how the multi-page entries worked at first, and only read the first page of each). It's incredibly obvious that it is Dim's journal, which makes Ringabel's identity extremely suspect.

Ooh, so is Dark Knight Ringabel just literally Dim?

[Fynn]

No, I never said it is. I mean, from the point of view of Braev, who thinks ending Crystalism will save the world, it is. I said it twice already, I think, that I consider that reprehensible, but Braev's reasoning is also justified. The way he goes about it is all kinds of wrong, however. Ending the religion may not be the only way to "save" the world, but it is the best in the eyes of Braev, especially considering his personal vendetta. So once again, let me stress, I think Braev was wrong for killing innocent Crystalists, but he considered it the best course of action for saving the world.

And the game never really says Crystalists are wrong. It says the Orthodoxy is corrupt, true, but not awakening the Crystals still has great global consequences. So both sides are right to some degree. The problem is that neither wants to listen and see the bigger picture.

Also, Skyblade, what are you doing here if you haven't finished the game yet? :D You'll ruin all the fun for yourself.

[Skyblade]

No, I never said it is. I mean, from the point of view of Braev, who thinks ending Crystalism will save the world, it is. I said it twice already, I think, that I consider that reprehensible, but Braev's reasoning is also justified. The way he goes about it is all kinds of wrong, however. Ending the religion may not be the only way to "save" the world, but it is the best in the eyes of Braev, especially considering his personal vendetta. So once again, let me stress, I think Braev was wrong for killing innocent Crystalists, but he considered it the best course of action for saving the world.

And the game never really says Crystalists are wrong. It says the Orthodoxy is corrupt, true, but not awakening the Crystals still has great global consequences. So both sides are right to some degree. The problem is that neither wants to listen and see the bigger picture.

Also, Skyblade, what are you doing here if you haven't finished the game yet? :D You'll ruin all the fun for yourself.

I opened the forum up this morning while half asleep, thought I was in the Lightning Returns forum, checked out an ending thread, and was spoiled before I realized my mistake (when NeoCracker basically opened the thread with the line "Airy is the villain"). The damage is done. :(

Neither wants to listen? When did the Eternians ever try to talk or explain anything?

For that matter, if Airy is the primary villain, how is the Orthodoxy corrupt, when the Orthodoxy has no connection to Airy (since even devout Crystalists, or even Olivia, the other Vestal, don't recognize Airy)?

[Fynn]

She says she's a Cryst-Fairy and the scriptures tell Crystalists to follow the guidance of Cryst-Fairies. Like I said, she's a false prophet. She has nothing to do with the Orthodoxy, she just makes the religion look evil, which it isn't.

For the corrupt church, just do the vampire castle quest. I know a lot of things you already have spoiled for yourself, but the story there is really interesting, so I'll just leave it unspoiled for you.

[Skyblade]

I don't know, it would be hard pressed to beat the sheer awesomeness of Kyoko's quest (even if I did call that one really early). I wonder what job I'll get. Can't get a Vampire Hunter job, because there are no whips in the game (nor characters named Belmont).

But I think I got my main complaints addressed, so I'll be back later. I have to go kill Victor and Victoria.

[NeoCracker]

It's almost best to see Crytalism Vs. Anti-Crystalism as some thing that happened, but really isn't a problem anymore. The Crystalism Eternia is against isn't really what Agnes is part of, they just assume she is at first.

...There are some odd issues with this plot all is said and done. :p

[maybee]

Also, can we talk about one more thing? Am I the only one who saw the Ringabel reveal from miles away?


I was looking through Ringabel's diary/ journal thing and saw a picture of Dim holding a young boy's hand. So had to assume that Dim/ Ringabel, or that they were brothers, related, or something.



I opened the forum up this morning while half asleep, thought I was in the Lightning Returns forum, checked out an ending thread, and was spoiled before I realized my mistake (when NeoCracker basically opened the thread with the line "Airy is the villain"). The damage is done. :(



Sorry ;A;

Should of waited a bit longer to do this, but was just so annoyed with how good the game was, and then dropped everything to basically try and make the game longer.

[Dat Matt]

Also, can we talk about one more thing? Am I the only one who saw the Ringabel reveal from miles away?


I was looking through Ringabel's diary/ journal thing and saw a picture of Dim holding a young boy's hand. So had to assume that Dim/ Ringabel, or that they were brothers, related, or something.



I opened the forum up this morning while half asleep, thought I was in the Lightning Returns forum, checked out an ending thread, and was spoiled before I realized my mistake (when NeoCracker basically opened the thread with the line "Airy is the villain"). The damage is done. :(



Sorry ;A;

Should of waited a bit longer to do this, but was just so annoyed with how good the game was, and then dropped everything to basically try and make the game longer.

That was my main Grievance with the game. It was really good fun and then chapter 5 rolls round and I ust wanted it to end. Getting true ending gave this secret video though was was pretty cool [youtube]geDEHHMZ7No[youtube]. Shame I'd already knew of the existance of the sequel before starting the game xD

[NeoCracker]

In regards the that ending video, I hated it.

It looked cool, but I was actually really impressed they had the balls to kill their lead character at the end. I haven't seen a move like that since Lufia.

And then you find out he's okay a minute or two later.

[Fynn]

I actually didn't like how they hinted he was dead. First of all, it wasn't clear he was dead. Second of all, it was not foreshadowed in any way, came out of the blue and seemingly for no reason and without explanation. I don't care about the creators balls, I want a well-crafted story, and Tiz just dying there did not make any sense within the narrative.

[NeoCracker]

It was established prety early that it wasn't the knight who saved him, it was actually the celestial inside him. It was also pretty clear that was the only reason he stayed alive. Makes perfect sense to me that with the spirit gone, so would he.

So no, it didn't come from no where, there was some kind of set up to this. :p

[Fynn]

It was not clear and the celestial within him thing really seemed to come out of the blue in the final battle and no one reacted to it, which was pretty stupid. It was kind of a stretch to think, based on the fact that it wasn't Owen who saved Tiz, that he would die once it was all over. That was a cheap shot, IMO, at forced drama, which would have made me dive into Darkness Induced Audience Apathy, I'm glad they shook things up in the secret video. Compare this to how it was done in Persona 3, where it was handled much better, without feeling forced. There, reviving the hero would have really cheapened the impact, because him sacrificing himself was built up from the beginning and was very profound. Here, there was really no reason for Tiz to die. He did not use up all his life force to win the final battle. If Airy's sister really abandoned him after all that knowing he would die, she's as much a dick as her sister.

[NeoCracker]

Owen not saving him was a pretty big indicater he otherwise would have died at the crater, and there had been a couple referances to their being another Soul inside of him, the first being Mephilia sensing it.

And Airy's sister was the only reason Tiz was alive. In addition, Tiz is the one who 'returned what he borrowed' as it were. This was pretty obviously going to happen at some point I felt, and something very in-character for Tiz to do. Now, I hadn't considered what would happen, so the death caught me by surprise.

Comparing to Persona isn't entirely fair because a) Persona 3 is simply one of the best games ever written, so I'm not going to hold it to that standard. Lo and b) Tiz was never a heroic sacrifice. He was just some guy who was there and who was willing to do what he could, though he was never really suppose to survive the opening of the crater, so he's more a guy going forward on borrowed time to begin with. The game just never tells you this directly, at least not until the credits.

[Fynn]

I compared this to Persona mainly because I felt they tried to pull that off and failed, so they added the retcon. The similarity is there. Don't get me wrong, I love Persona 3 and agree it's one of the best games ever made, but it's not some holy object that's gonna get defiled when compared to this which is a flawed but still very good game. Just wanted to compare how Persona did it better, is all.

The very main problem I have with the story is that it could have been so much more. I was not bothered by the loop, because it had more character development for the asterisk holders, but that created a lot of plotholes. I know this writer can do a terrific job because Steins;Gate, but this did kind of feel it was rushed. The characters are great and their interactions awesome, the atmosphere gets intense, but then when the loop starts, they start getting inexplicable memory lapses. Remember guys? Ringabel told us Airy was evil and her wings were a countdown. I know we had to keep up appearances, but we had a suspicion as to how many worlds are left and Airy's reveal should have been less "huh?!" And more "huh, so THAT's what it meant."

[NeoCracker]

My comment about Persona just being better over all was just me being silly. Nothing I thought you'd take seriously. :p

THough I do think it's not an apt comparison for the death in Bravely Default wasn't a sacrfice like it was in Persona. I think if you take it on it's own, with the build that was there, it stands on it's own pretty well. (Up until two minutes later you find out he lives. :p)

But yeah, I agree there could have been more and the lack of it is the biggest drawback. I don't know if it's because it was rushed though. All the different worlds being almost Identical seems like it was something in place since they started, and so many problems came from that fact. It feels more like they introduced a plot point ealry on in production, and later on it was either too late to change it considering how much of the story was built around it, or the just didn't realize how many issues they'd created for themselves. That's another discussion entirely though. :p

[Fynn]

Well, some people can get very defensive about their favorite things, so I just wanted to make it clear that I did not mean to offend anyone :p

By rushed I did not mean that the loops were tacked on. I agree that it must have been something they established at the beginning of development. It's the amount of inconsistencies that makes me think they didn't have enough time to think this through. So yeah, you pretty much nailed it.

[NeoCracker]

Still though, regardless of the mass amount of bitching I've done in regards to this game thus far (Both here and my dislike on Streetpass functionality, as well as my un-announced complaints of Norende operating on an out of game timer, as well as never getting to actually see the town grow, or the fact you can still order it's growth when you are no longer in your home dimension making no sense), I still really enjoyed this game, and will be getting the second one when it's out without question. :p

[Fynn]

Ditto. It has its flaws, some of them glaring, but overall it's the best FF to come out in many years, and one of the best written SE games period. I love the return of the job system and I hope any potential sequels will at least be as good :)

EDIT: I just noticed something really smart about the title. The FF here stands for "fairy flies", and for the first four chapters this game is the typical old-school FF waking up crystals business. The moment when Ringabel's memory returns and the game goes in it's own unique direction is when the "FF" is gone from the title. So basically, this shows that this game is supposed to act as a deconstruction of Final Fantasy :monster:

[Skyblade]

Ok, I still haven't finished the game. But I just got the Blue Mage Vampire Asterisk, and I found myself having to ask this question.

Why is Braev such a psychotic jerk? There is no reason for almost any of his actions.

Assaulting the temple to prevent the Grand Ritual. Ok, that at least had some justification (even if it wasn't necessarily the only or the best thing to do there).

But the entire point of the Grand Ritual was that the Orthodoxy's power had been shattered. The people had moved on without the central authority, and apparently had grown up that way for hundreds of years. Sage Yulyana had been guiding and teaching the vestals, leading them away from the corruption since Eternia had been sealed off.

So why does Braev start his mass-murder spree across the world? What does he hope to accomplish? The corrupt of the Orthodoxy were dead, and had been since he slaughtered the main temple. What was the reason for the rest of it? It wasn't exactly an ideal course of action, ensuring that the vestals would have a perfect person to point a finger at when everything started to go wrong with the Crystals. Heck, according to "the angel", the weakening prayers of the faithful let the crystals fall into darkness. So, if he hadn't spent years slaughtering and persecuting anyone who stayed true to the Orthodoxy, the entire Awakening quest might never have happened in the first place. There was no reason to do anything after the initial purge. It was bloodshed for the sake of bloodshed.

[Fynn]

'Cuz he's a butthurt son of a bitch.

[NeoCracker]

The Ritual, from what I recall, is what caused the Crystals to go dark. That is why he went after the other temples as well, so while there is still some justification for going after the Crystals, he went to a pointless extreme.

[Skyblade]

The Ritual, from what I recall, is what caused the Crystals to go dark. That is why he went after the other temples as well, so while there is still some justification for going after the Crystals, he went to a pointless extreme.

Nope. The Ritual occurred fifteen years prior to the darkening of the Crystals, and, according to the game's information, resulted in the Earth Crystal running wild with power, overflowing to excess (much like the Awakening rite). This is part of why the magic cables were attached to it, to drain the power off before it caused a catastrophe. It wasn't mentioned as affecting the other crystals at all.

It's more likely that the arrival of the Great Chasm (which was Airy tearing through from the previous world, I believe), the sundering of the walls between worlds, and the resulting surge of darkness and monsters was what caused the crystals to darken. But Braev's activities certainly didn't help.

I'm also not sure how much of the documentation of the events of the attack on the Orthodoxy headquarters can be trusted. Braev's documents write him up to be a great hero, yet directly contradict almost everything that we know to be true. He apparently accepted the surrender of every Orthodoxy official and ordered no slaughter or mistreatment of prisoners. Yet his most trusted and honorable officer killed a defenseless opponent (the Earth Vestal) in a fit of rage. Further, we know that Braev was directly responsible for acts of violent slaughter against innocent Crystalists (let the corrupt leaders survive, but slaughter the others?) across multiple realms (which started around three years before the Crystals darkened), attempted to hide his atrocities (he covered up the death of the Fire Vestal, and had the Eternian First Division acting undercover as a "mercenary group"), and refused to explain his motives or plans to anyone until the world was all but destroyed.

Further, according to the documentation of the assault, both Erutus and Qada were under investigation for misconduct fifteen years ago. Yet both apparently came out just fine, being promoted and with no checks in place to prevent further atrocities at their hands. He has also promoted people like DeRosa and Victoria, who are clearly amoral and don't behave in ways in keeping with his supposed "ideals". Having Victoria as a living weapon is one thing, but putting her on the ruling council of a country? Why? Because she is one of the few people who absolutely share's Braev's beliefs that all Crystalists must die, with no quarter given and no care what else may occur because of it.

Braev may have stopped the Grand Ritual, but as far as I can tell, that's the only even halfway decent thing he's done. He has mercilessly attacked and slaughtered anyone who disagrees with him, or holds a contrary viewpoint, and does his best to make sure that any official documentation writes him up as a heroic martyr (make sure you write that I'm a "usurper") doing his best to help people. I really don't know why the game even attempts to portray him sympathetically. Yes, he has a tragic backstory, but even knowing the whole thing, it only makes me more eager to stop him.

[NeoCracker]

I swore it mentioned the ritual still went off though. :p

Otherwise what was even the point, and what was ti suppose to do, or at least what was the point is bringing up that it was forbidden and dangerous? Either way, it's kind of irrelevant I guess. Doesn't really answer or help anything one way or the other. :p

[Skyblade]

I swore it mentioned the ritual still went off though. :p

Otherwise what was even the point, and what was ti suppose to do, or at least what was the point is bringing up that it was forbidden and dangerous? Either way, it's kind of irrelevant I guess. Doesn't really answer or help anything one way or the other. :p

The Ritual did go off, though it was not believe to be completed. But, as I said, the effects of the Ritual were to cause the Earth Crystal to be radiating excess power, not to drain or darken it.

The point of the Ritual was, I think, to present Braev in a more sympathetic light. To show that there were good reasons for doing what he did, and showing how corrupt the Orthodoxy had become. It was also to help show that the white magic cables were more than just a desecration of the crystals or an attempt to keep Mahzer alive.

But without some huge catalyst for the Face Heel (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FaceHeelTurn) turn that Braev supposedly goes between the invasion of Eternia 15 years ago and his sudden war against Crystalism 3 years ago, I still don't see any reason to sympathize with the guy for his current actions. I mean, Kefka had an unfortunate past as well, but I don't think anyone sympathizes with him.

[Fynn]

Kefka never really shows us his human side. As for Braev, we can see how he cares about his daughter, wife, best friend, etc. probably a case of Even Bad Guys Love Their Mommies.

[Skyblade]

Kefka never really shows us his human side. As for Braev, we can see how he cares about his daughter, wife, best friend, etc. probably a case of Even Bad Guys Love Their Mommies.

His treatment of Edea really ruins that for me. He refuses to tell her anything about what's going on, jumping straight to fighting her. In the second world, he starts to explain why he rebelled and invaded Eternia fifteen years ago, but then when it gets to the current fight, he says "I'm not going to bother to explain why you should stop, just stop or I'll kill you". He would rather kill his own daughter than even bother talking things through. He never tries to convince her to stop, he simply orders her, and meets any refusal with bloodshed.

I do sympathize with the Braev from years ago. The guy who watched his family and hometown burn, and who was apparently just trying to help the world (although I have to note, if attaching the white magic cables was a last resort due to the Ritual actually being cast and the overload of energy it produced, why did they already have them prepared before the invasion of Eternia even began?). But in the intervening years, he lost all that humanity. Just how I sympathize with the pain and suffering Kefka went through before his mind broke. He doesn't care about the suffering of others, and he doesn't seem to interact with people except in how they serve as pawns for his plans. Yes, he mentions how much he trusts and relies on Kamiizumi and Alternis, but only when they're serving the role he wants. When Victoria casts her magic against Alternis, does he do anything? Yeah, he sits there and watches, and only intervenes when Alternis threatens the psychotic little witch back.

[Skyblade]

Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to whine about this somewhere.

I have found it so hard to continue playing lately. I adored the entire second world run through the game. But World Three is just dull. So much of the dialogue and scenarios on the various quests is copied directly. Yes, it was fun when I ran into the Jackal, it played out exactly the same (making me think it was lazy writing), and then I discovered the children at the end. But doing that for every boss does make it feel like lazy writing.

The pacing of this part of the game is just atrocious. Repeating the same boss fights over and over with only minimal dialogue changes and no combat changes has gotten boring. I like the new story elements we get, but there is nowhere near enough new content. Next up I've got to trudge through Vampire Castle, uncover a bunch of information I already know, and fight a boss I've already beaten twice. It's just dull.

There was a lot of potential in this section. I loved World Two, discovering the different scenarios, seeing how foreknowledge changed things like the Profiteur and Konoe fights. It was awesome. Where is that imagination and attention to detail in World Three? Who thought copy/pasting that much content in a section was a good idea? It's all boss fights and dialogue, you need to change one or the other.

My only hope currently dragging me along is that the story quests might excel where the side-quests have utterly failed in this world. I haven't been able to face several of them (Einheria and her sisters are missing, as is Braev), so hopefully they'll show up and add something new to this boss rush.

[Fynn]

Yeah, World 3 is the weakest of them all, IMHO, I'm how it recycles content. From what I heard, it was the same for the last two worlds in Japan, but we got the improved version with added script in Chapters 7 and 8, so don't worry - it's gonna get a little different ;)

Then again, chapter 6 has my favorite side-quest, which I figure you have yet to begin ;)

And yeah, too bad vampire castle is just the same in all worlds (with just a tiny little detail being different in the boss battle in the final world).

[Dat Matt]

This is what I was refereeing to when the game started to drag towards the end. There may be some hidden things I missed, but pretty much everything is recycled again chapters 6-8. With the exception of a few side quests. I think in chapter 8 for example two groups of side quest characters team up to fight as a group.

I loved dicking around in bravely default, but when I seen what they were doing here I just rushed for the goal.

You shoul make 2 save files at some point. Continuing through to chapter 8 leads to true end, you true end. You can also overload any crystal during a ritual to break it and jump to the final chapter early. Break up that repetition some

[Fynn]

But you can't really save on another slot. Good news is the game saves automatically at a point where, once you get one ending, you can go back and try the other. Also, too bad you missed out - chapter 7 and 8 both have you battle teams of characters, with there being even more story to flesh out those characters and their relations. The teams also differ between both chapters, so you need to try different strategies. The final big sidequest in chapter 8 is just killer, even on level 99 and maxed out jobs, unless you know what you're doing (the mages, the goddamn mages, they jsut refuse to let me kill them...).

[Dat Matt]

I was under the impression you could make more than one save file. Weird.

I do wish that I had check out more of the side quests, but by that point the game had repeated the same side quests without any new content so I was hesitant to try again. For example, the Monk/White Mage fight came up in chapter 5, was great with new dialogue and fleshed out the two characters a bit. Chapter 6 and it's just the same dialouge from chapter 5 but they had increased the difficulty slightly. It's at this point I opted to not do the sidequests again as there didn't see any point. I am sure I fought the Bloodrose Legion though.

[Skyblade]

Actually, the Holly and Baras fight have, thus far, been the best part of Chapter 6. In World Two, they mention Tiz and Agnes beating them before you fight them. In World Three, they specifically say it was just Tiz (or Til, perhaps, given how that world opens). That was fantastic, and the change to the after battle dialogue was just as good.

I was loving this world. I wanted to explore what happened to the party in this world. What happened if Til and Agnes never started traveling together? The other fights in Caldisla also made it seem as though Edea had never turned traitor, so I was looking forward to seeing what happened to her.

But none of this carries on in the side quests outside Caldisla, which is a huge disappointment, and some real lost potential.

[Skyblade]

Currently fighting my way through Airy's Final Form (it's about time!). I'm actually kind of glad she got one. I mean, I knew that with a larva form and pupa form, she would be highly likely to have an imago form to finish off. But, with her being so dependent on Lord Ouroboros (really, spellcheck, you don't even recognize Ouroboros?), I was afraid she'd get abandoned since he was likely going to consume her along with the worlds as well.

That said, I didn't expect her final form to remind me so much of Volcarona. I know they have a lot of the same inspiration, but it's really hard to take one of the final bosses seriously when you just want to cram them in a Pokéball.

[Fynn]

Aw hail no. She wasn't nearly as majestic as my favorite sun god :colbert:

[Skyblade]

Aw hail no. She wasn't nearly as majestic as my favorite sun god :colbert:

No, she wasn't. But the form fit. The seraph-inspired multi-wing design, with how they arrayed around her and their relative proportions to her body, along with the general color and atmosphere they were using at that section, it really made me think almost immediately of Volcarona. She's not as majestic, nor as awesome (her weakness is Fire, after all, Volcarona would probably toast her), but the similarities are still there.

Anyway, I finally beat the game. It was concluded brilliantly. That final battle. So much awesome.

It's a real shame about Chapter 6 (World 3). The rest of the game was almost all top-notch, but that Chapter had some huge missed potential. I feel so sorry for the Japanese players, since every Chapter from 5 to 8 was identical.


If I start a New Game+, and choose to carry over my Norende status, will it carry over my current Nemeses storage as well? I don't want to lose the ones I have. I also don't want to lose my stock of stat buns, so please tell me they do get carried over in inventory, even though they aren't part of the standard game inventory.

[metagloria]

Sorry for resurrecting, but I just finished the game, so I feel like chiming in.

1) As for the asterisk bearers and how they are similar/different across chapters: I got the feeling that they knew more in each world. Like, DeRosso and Yulyana obviously seemed to know a lot (everything?) from the get-go, but in the first world, I don't think Braev and the rest of the Eternian command knew everything. Their violence toward the crystalists was genuinely imperial, not just to stop Airy's plan. But their motivations and actions change slightly through the chain of worlds, to the end that in the final world, they're aware that they are fighting only to test/toughen up Edea and company for the big battle.

(Also: this game practically trips over itself emphasizing that things aren't always black and white. Are the crystalists good, and anti-crystalists evil? Or are the anti-crystalists good, and the crystalists evil? The answer: no. Everyone is varying shades of good and evil in each world. The fact that we don't get a definitive resolution is exactly the point.)

2) It is pretty reprehensible how lazy chapters 5-8 are, although the multi-boss battles in the last two chapters make things interesting. I grinded up to 99 as soon as possible in chapter 5 and then just blazed through the rest of the game (I did fight every asterisk bearer each time). Square has a tendency to pad their handheld titles with repetitive gameplay, but this is way beyond anything they've ever done. It's right at the threshold of being enjoyable vs. unbearable. Hopefully they don't pull something like that with Bravely Second. Speaking of which...

3) The Tiz/celestial thing is really nebulous in this game, obviously because that's going to be the subject matter of the sequel. I was very okay with the ending. I actually think they might pull a Star Ocean 3 here... where the "celestial realm" is like the real world, and the bajillions of worlds in Bravely Default were many iterations of a simulated world. Yeah, that would feel kind of weird, since there are no indications that BD's world isn't "real", but clearly Tiz's spirit went somewhere outside of BD's world...guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Skyblade]

2) It is pretty reprehensible how lazy chapters 5-8 are, although the multi-boss battles in the last two chapters make things interesting. I grinded up to 99 as soon as possible in chapter 5 and then just blazed through the rest of the game (I did fight every asterisk bearer each time). Square has a tendency to pad their handheld titles with repetitive gameplay, but this is way beyond anything they've ever done. It's right at the threshold of being enjoyable vs. unbearable. Hopefully they don't pull something like that with Bravely Second. Speaking of which...

Not when you realize that the chapters were, in Japan, completely identical in terms of story content and released entirely as DLC. Getting the multi-boss battles in the last two worlds was a huge overhaul done in the For the Sequel version, and we got even more updated content when they translated that over the seas.


3) The Tiz/celestial thing is really nebulous in this game, obviously because that's going to be the subject matter of the sequel. I was very okay with the ending. I actually think they might pull a Star Ocean 3 here... where the "celestial realm" is like the real world, and the bajillions of worlds in Bravely Default were many iterations of a simulated world. Yeah, that would feel kind of weird, since there are no indications that BD's world isn't "real", but clearly Tiz's spirit went somewhere outside of BD's world...guess we'll have to wait and see.

Or did it? Did you watch the Bravely Second special vid at the end? Tiz is still alive and kicking, somehow. We'll just have to see how that plays out.

[Dat Matt]

2) It is pretty reprehensible how lazy chapters 5-8 are, although the multi-boss battles in the last two chapters make things interesting. I grinded up to 99 as soon as possible in chapter 5 and then just blazed through the rest of the game (I did fight every asterisk bearer each time). Square has a tendency to pad their handheld titles with repetitive gameplay, but this is way beyond anything they've ever done. It's right at the threshold of being enjoyable vs. unbearable. Hopefully they don't pull something like that with Bravely Second. Speaking of which...

Not when you realize that the chapters were, in Japan, completely identical in terms of story content and released entirely as DLC. Getting the multi-boss battles in the last two worlds was a huge overhaul done in the For the Sequel version, and we got even more updated content when they translated that over the seas.

So how did the original work? I know we got the "Special edition" so what content was added to that from the original Japanese release?