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Skyblade
02-11-2014, 05:20 AM
That is not a criticism. I am playing on Hard Difficulty, after all.

This game is hard, and it is great. The Brave/Default system adds such a huge tactical element to the standard turn based system. Sure, at first you can just Brave x4 and Attack and kill most random mobs, but that quickly changes. When you Brave, when you Default, and what you do with your stored turns has a huge effect on how combat plays out. It reminds me a bit of Radiant Historia's system, with the shifting around of turns, but I think the execution is a bit more elegant.

It also makes the traditional "Defend" command suddenly actually have a use. Before, it wasn't really useful, as your turns were almost always better spent attacking. Sure, you could save a character at the brink from a bit more damage while someone else healed him (assuming that he couldn't heal himself). Or Defend against a heavy, telegraphed attack. But those circumstances were rare.

Even better, however, is the fact that enemies can (and do) Brave and Default as well. Sure, chaining a bunch of attacks can do a lot of damage in one turn. But then, that means that one turn of Default by your target enemy can massively reduce the damage they take, wasting those extra hits (and, if you went negative, leaving your ripe for a counterattack). Or they can chain together a bunch of hits of their own, which can be really devastating, especially when bosses do it.

The game also requires you to plan and prepare for fights. While it lets you repeat the actions of your last turn for auto-attacking, that is rarely an ideal strategy, unless you are over-leveled or over-geared. Different mobs require different strategies. The physical or magic nature of the attack seems far more important in this game than in many others that I can remember playing, with defenses, evasions, and even counter mechanics coming in to play to punish you for choosing wrong.

That being said, if you do approach things tactically, there is a lot you can do to swing things in your favor. If you approach the game and think things through, you can always find a path through. You may need to change your party or skills, or set your turns differently, or even use your Special Attacks. But you can do it.

I still hear the constant cries of "turn based games aren't hard". It's nice to see how much the list of counter-examples has grown. It's nice to see that Square can churn out a difficult, turn based game that requires thought and planning to succeed at. This game is hard, and that's fantastic.

Fynn
02-11-2014, 07:50 AM
It is indeed, and I am also glad it is :) It's difficult, but not unfairly so. When you lose, you know it's because you made an error, not because the enemy has cheap moves. Probably the best thing, however, is how you can change the difficulty level, so that you can suit it to your needs. This way, the game has no way of getting frustrating.

maybee
02-11-2014, 12:32 PM
I feel like it gets easier as you master more and master job classes, and level up more. And then the game flips on you again.

:/

Skyblade
02-11-2014, 04:40 PM
I feel like it gets easier as you master more and master job classes, and level up more. And then the game flips on you again.

:/

Jobs do indeed help. As does equipment, and someone who can rebuild Norende quickly and farm for a little extra PG (not Gil! One of the few names changed from Final Fantasy) can get an incredible amount of good equipment early on. My whole team is running around in Rainbow Dresses (Ringabel has to look fashionabluh, after all) and Red Caps, which helps a ton (I got Rainbow Dresses shortly before Confusion entered the playing field as well, so I haven't ever been Confused). But only up to a point. Then the game decides you need more and better stuff.

Mastering Jobs also gives you a stat bonus when using that Job (one of the NPCs described it as increasing the Job's Stat Proficiency, though I don't know if the letters actually change), and that helps quite a bit. But even stats won't carry you in this game.

To anyone who played the demo, you should remember the Myconids (Mushroom enemies). They're a perfect example. I remembered them from the demo, but I was pretty heavily over-leveled at the time, so I figured I would try auto-attacking them. I killed something like 16, before the constant spawns wore me down and killed me (I had Healing Magic at the time, but no characters wielding black magic, nor did I think to use Sleep-Blade at the time). Until and unless you get powerful enough to one-shot them, you will need Magic to stop these guys. And you aren't likely to one-shot them until a return trip.

MP becomes a precious resource (at least, to someone like me, who never uses items). You have to use it, for healing to getting through certain encounters, and I've found myself monitoring it more closely than I have in any Final Fantasy game. I use Treat from the Freelancer to heal whenever possible, but between status effects and the amount of damage that enemies can do in a short time, you want to keep yourself pretty well topped off, and only Magic will heal out of combat.

This game also encourages variable Job use in a way that no game that has used the system thus far has. While the Job system itself is as simple and straightforward as ever, the actually Jobs are incredibly well balanced. Each has its use, and you can combine them in all sorts of ways. Every challenge can be overcome if you approach it the correct way. For example, most people would think to use magic against the Myconids, but a Spell-Fencer with Sleep can typically do just as well, for cheaper MP cost. Both White Magic and Time Magic each command an extra element (Wind and Earth, respectively), opening up some greater variability to the classes than just healing, buffing, and gravity.

I love how much I am having to plan through the fights, and I love how much the game rewards you for it. I do think a few of the bosses are a little ridiculous on the damage scale, but even then, when you figure out the puzzle of what you need to take them down, what strategy to use, what jobs to use, when to Brave, when to Default, it feels so very rewarding.

I also think it is worth another mention that, despite the difficulty, this game has no "right" way to beat a boss. I've searched through for a couple of strategies for bosses that I've already beaten (somehow, I have managed to avoid spoiling myself at all for this game, and I am very thankful for that). No two have been the same. I see tons of people asking for help with this boss or that boss, and the answers are always different. You have to play smart, but you don't have to play a particular way. This is not an easy task to pull off. They give you enough tools in the Job system, and the Brave/Default system, to take on a task, and then they just let you take it on. There are so many, many ways to combine those features that, while only a tiny fraction of them will work, you can find your own strategy.

Dat Matt
02-11-2014, 06:32 PM
I aim to level up my characters at least twice for every new area I enter. This keeps me ahead of the curve. Bravely default destroyed me for that.

There was a time in the later game during grinding I turned up the difficulty from normal to hard to see if the effects of changing difficult improved battle rewards (didn't seem to). I forgot to reverse this before a boss and despite being level 99 and taking things slowly and carefully the boss destroyed me. Hard mode too intense for me.

Del Murder
02-11-2014, 06:57 PM
I heard 'Radiant Historia' and that's all I needed to know. :up:

The Brave/Default system sounds annoying. Now I need to finish the bazillion other 3DS games I have so I can play this.

I want you all to picture me with my arms wrapped around two infants while playing a 3DS. This will be my life for the next few months.

Skyblade
02-11-2014, 07:35 PM
I heard 'Radiant Historia' and that's all I needed to know. :up:

The Brave/Default system sounds annoying. Now I need to finish the bazillion other 3DS games I have so I can play this.

I want you all to picture me with my arms wrapped around two infants while playing a 3DS. This will be my life for the next few months.

I think your system auto-corrected "awesome" into "annoying".

Play the demo, if you haven't yet. It will help you get a feel for it.

The way it works is this: Each action costs a Brave Point (some high level ones cost more than one). Each turn, you get a Brave Point for each character who isn't stunned, stopped, or asleep. So, each turn, you can take an action. Basic stuff.

However, there are two other features that let you manipulate this. If you choose to "Default" during a turn (it's basically the "Defend" command from Final Fantasy, except actually useful), it will reduce the damage you take, and not cost a Brave Point, so you store up that turn's Brave Point to use later. And you can store up to 3 Brave Points.

The "Brave" command will let you spend Brave Points to take additional actions. You can take up to 4 actions at once. This is done by either spending stored Brave Points, or dipping in to your future turns and going negative on Brave Points (well, technically, even a standard action will take you to -1 with no BP stored up, but it regenerates to zero on the next turn, and you can act again). But if you go negative, you can't act until you regenerate to zero BP.

So if you rush enemies with multiple Brave attacks, you can do a ton of damage, but you'll then be unable to defend yourself, possibly up to four turns (which is enough for even most random encounters to trash your party, if they survive your onslaught). Thus you either need to plan your strikes carefully, and know what you can take down and how much BP you need to spend. When to rush, when to defend, who to attack with, who to leave in reserve. It's a brilliant system, and you get the hang of the basics really quickly. But each foe can throw a twist on it, by changing how they fight, or what skills work most effectively against them, so the battlefield is ever shifting.

Del Murder
02-11-2014, 07:40 PM
Haha, yeah meant awesome. What the hell was that? :p

Endless
02-11-2014, 08:01 PM
It feels to me like there's a huge gap between trash and bosses. Case in point being the dragon and its annoying mow down that would hit my whole team for 200+ even when defaulting and chaining it with its bully move which ignores default altogether. It would just outdamage the healing I could output and wipe my team fast.
So I used summon friend and picked one that would wipe it through the floor, but it annoyed me a lot.

Also, how in the world did you save the PG to buy the Norende gear? I rebuilt it a lot (got most of it at level 9 before getting to yulyana woods) but I can't afford squat since equipment costs several thousands apiece and I barely make 50 per open world fight.

Fynn
02-11-2014, 08:23 PM
It's easier to get gold later on ;) Also, the merchant job is your friend.

Pumpkin
02-11-2014, 08:24 PM
I want to try out this game because it really sounds like the type of game I would like, but I don't like hard games :<

Fynn
02-11-2014, 08:26 PM
Switch to easy and it's a breezy. Heh.

Endless
02-11-2014, 08:30 PM
It's easier to get gold later on ;) Also, the merchant job is your friend.

The merchant job sucks at low job level, only skill is "throw PG out the window" :/

Fynn
02-11-2014, 08:32 PM
I found that, after switching out from some maces jobs, they all suck at low levels. The merchant is actually pretty awesome. It was hilarious to me whe Ringabel kept selling eye drops the the eldritch abomination the party was fighting :p

Skyblade
02-11-2014, 09:05 PM
I want to try out this game because it really sounds like the type of game I would like, but I don't like hard games :<

It's Hard on the Hard difficulty. From what I've heard, Normal and Easy are significantly less troublesome.



It's easier to get gold later on ;) Also, the merchant job is your friend.

The merchant job sucks at low job level, only skill is "throw PG out the window" :/

Merchant passive ability gets you extra gold from battles. And Sell High is nice, when it works. Which it doesn't always, so I don't use it.

NeoCracker
02-11-2014, 10:29 PM
So far hard is more bothersome then actually hard most of the time. I nearly got wiped when the enemy got the first turn, and I was nearly 100%, and this was coming off a relatively easy boss in the area just before.

The enemy doesn't get first turn? I pretty much mob through them.

maybee
02-13-2014, 12:22 PM
Switch to easy and it's a breezy. Heh.


Well it's much easier; but wouldn't call it easy and breezy ;p

NeoCracker
02-13-2014, 11:42 PM
Well, I'm on my way to Earth Crystal in Eternia and yeah, even on Hard I don't think the game is that hard. Easier then any of the Persona 3/4's normal difficulty at least. :p

It does offer enough a challenge to where you need to put in effort and think though, definitely enough to keep your victories satisfying. :p

Skyblade
02-13-2014, 11:50 PM
You should name your spoilers with [spoiler=(Chapter Number Spoilers)], so that we can get a vague idea of where you are, and know whether or not we can click without spoiling ourselves.

That said, unless you do a ton of grinding, I find the bosses pretty hard. Maybe not quite to the Shin Megami Tensei level, but each one almost feels like a wall when I reach it. I usually die several times figuring out how to best fight and approach them (which never happens in Final Fantasy, except possibly on superbosses). Each one feels like a challenge to overcome, and a fun one at that.

NeoCracker
02-14-2014, 12:03 AM
The most challenging ones the first run for me were always the ones I just didn't Realize had a pattern at first. Know the pattern on them and it becomes pretty easy. :p

Also, all the Sub-scenario boss's in the last chapter I ran were pretty damn easy.

The two hardest fights for me have been The Behemoth on Grandship and the Water Temples multiplying goo guy.

I edited the above spoiler. :p

Fynn
02-14-2014, 06:54 AM
Just wait till you try to get to vampire castle. Those dragons are a nightmare.

NeoCracker
02-14-2014, 08:28 AM
Since I have yet to get any way into chapter 4, I shall avoid reading that and say this.

The moment I Land, I get murdered by the randoms and Ice Golem and now have a choice to make. Considering how much besides this game I have to do, between finishing and running some stuff on site, and keeping up on my Pathfinder Campaign, I am pondering dropping difficulty to normal for time reasons. Also to consider I have Theif later this month, and five games dropping in February.

Fynn
02-14-2014, 09:41 AM
That might be wise.

Skyblade
03-23-2014, 06:00 AM
Ok, currently I'm in Chapter 7, and the difficulty has just spiked. Although I absolutely adore the story content of the side missions in this chapter, the battles themselves are incredibly difficult.

Currently, I'm going up against the Girl-Power trio. It is such an incredibly well built team to fight. Konoe uses Shippujinrai to strike at the start of a turn, and I've seen her Brave while doing it. Two hits from that is enough to nearly kill my weaker characters. Artemisia doesn't usually get to me before I can get Rampart up, but she is keeping me tied down with playing defenses up constantly. And Victoria is an absolutely nightmare with her status effects, especially Doom and Death.

In Chapter 6, I was having my progression stalled by not enjoying the content as much. In Chapter 7, my progression is being stalled by the difficulty of the fights. Any advice you guys can offer is welcome.

Skyblade
03-31-2014, 12:22 AM
Forgive the double post, but I finally beat the Girl Power Trio. Man, they were not a simple fight. But I got them. On to the rest!

Fynn
03-31-2014, 06:39 AM
I haven't played this game on hard mode, but let me say just one thing: you ain't seen nothing yet, Skyblade.

Skyblade
03-31-2014, 06:25 PM
I haven't played this game on hard mode, but let me say just one thing: you ain't seen nothing yet, Skyblade.

Well, I make things harder on myself by outright refusing to let characters die. The only one that occurred was the one needed to get the Brave + Phoenix Down + Potion mission done.

That last fight was really hard because Shippujinrai used twice would instantly kill Ringabel, and would activate before I could throw up a Rampart or even a Protect to save him. Also, Corpse is incredibly overpowered, since nothing can block it except Fairy Ward, and the only way to cure it is a Special Staff move setup to cure Doom, which requires ten turns of healing to set up.

I actually did beat the game back in Chapter Five (by being curious about whether I could break the thing if I kept on). That wasn't too much trouble. But hopefully the true ending will have a fight more in line with what I'm facing right now.

Skyblade
04-18-2014, 08:09 PM
Stuck in Chapter 8 now. Again, the Kikyo Konoe fight. Shippujinrai is just ridiculous. How am I supposed to stop a move that I can't prepare for? Even if a character survives, I have to heal them that turn, or she'll just finish them off by using it the next turn, since it acts first. I managed to finally find a strategy to negate Kamiizumi's insane counters, but now I'm stuck being completely demolished by Shippujinrai. Heck, since she often does it on the first turn, I won't even have time to set up a Rampart or Utsusemi (and putting Ninjitsu on everyone is kind of limiting anyway).

How do you stop the Ninja?!

SD
05-19-2014, 04:40 PM
lol i've been playing it on EASY mode
and i still find it pretty difficult at times
like yesterday with the first two airy monster battles

i rocked the first airy version with that R skill of templar
but then i was lost at the second airy version because it kept killing me off with major damage of those elemental attacks
but then i was like; wtf, wait, how could i've been so stupid....
so then i figured using that skill that nullifies all elemental damage for 4 turns:lol:
nailed it:cool: i was like ''BITCH, CANT TOUCH THIS'' http://i.imgur.com/gTPRKHZ.gif

Skyblade
05-19-2014, 07:45 PM
lol i've been playing it on EASY mode
and i still find it pretty difficult at times
like yesterday with the first two airy monster battles

i rocked the first airy version with that R skill of templar
but then i was lost at the second airy version because it kept killing me off with major damage of those elemental attacks
but then i was like; wtf, wait, how could i've been so stupid....
so then i figured using that skill that nullifies all elemental damage for 4 turns:lol:
nailed it:cool: i was like ''BITCH, CANT TOUCH THIS'' http://i.imgur.com/gTPRKHZ.gif

As much as I wish we didn't have to, the game is new enough that we still need to use spoiler tags for content like that, especially if you're going to be naming endgame bosses.

Just [ spoiler] (with no space) before your post, and [/ spoiler] after. If you want to name it (as I did with the "Endgame Spoiler" bit up there), then it is [ spoiler=Endgame Spoiler] for the first tag. Once posted, just click the spoiler tag to open it up and see what was said.


That said, if you got by that fight with Enigma, you're actually pretty lucky. If your foe uses Acedia, she can nullify all your buffs (including Enigma), and inflict a weakness to all elemental damage to you, which will then hurt a lot if you don't have the ability to recast it before she gets her next move off.

Fynn
05-19-2014, 07:55 PM
I think I also used Enigma. I was actually kinda disappointed, because the boss had a really easily exploitable weakness. After all those tag team battles, this one was a breeze.

Skyblade
05-19-2014, 07:57 PM
Well, remember, none of the tag team battles were in the original game. Every chapter after Chapter 4 was a DLC chapter that was essentially identical to what we got in Chapter 5.

And Acedia can still wreck Enigma in that fight, unless you had multiple Spiritmasters.

SD
05-20-2014, 10:23 PM
i have a hunch that you guys playing the USA version is kinda different from the europe version
...which i am playing lol, the europe version
because i wasnt talking about that skill and so on

Dat Matt
05-20-2014, 10:37 PM
I played on the European Version, and the skill that negates damage for 4 turns is definitely called Enigma (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Spiritmaster). I just checked there and everything.

The skill there are talking about Acedia I presume is one the boss uses and that negates the effects of Enigma.

Skyblade
05-21-2014, 12:10 AM
Acedia has two effects. It negates the effect of your stat buffs (like Strength 150% and such), and it gives you a debuff that makes you weak to every element (this overwrites Enigma). So it can cause a lot of problems if you're relying on Enigma to negate the damage.

It doesn't erase Stillness, though. If you want to just completely break the game.