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Loony BoB
02-12-2014, 12:35 PM
And they're starting to flow in.

Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII for PlayStation 3 Reviews - Metacritic (http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/lightning-returns-final-fantasy-xiii)
Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII for Xbox 360 Reviews - Metacritic (http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/lightning-returns-final-fantasy-xiii)

Seems like the critics are "mixed to positive", but it all depends on the critic and what you feel is good/bad.

I'm taking the reviews from users with a large pinch of salt at the moment - it's unlikely many if any of them have actually played much of the game given it's only been out for a day. It comes as no surprise to see a bunch of users instantly writing the game off with a load of 0/10's, while at the other end many people have jumped in high because they love the series. Over time, the user reviews will probably become a little more accurate in defining how this game is viewed by the people who actually play the game.

Ayen
02-12-2014, 12:45 PM
Main complaints I've seen have to do with characters, story, failed attempts at comedy and the doomsday clock hindering exploration. Japan were less critical of it all around.

BlueD
02-12-2014, 03:50 PM
im just not a big fan of the doomsday clock... im a person who hates to be rushed

Del Murder
02-12-2014, 04:04 PM
Main complaints I've seen have to do with characters, story, failed attempts at comedy and the doomsday clock hindering exploration. Japan were less critical of it all around.
Yeah, it seems to be a consensus that the story and characters fall completely flat, which is a disappointment but not a surprise. The biggest surprise I learned was that the quests are mostly your typical fetch quests and the stat boosts you get from them are static. In a game with only one character it would be nice to customize her stats more.

Loony BoB
02-12-2014, 04:15 PM
You do get to customise her stats - this is done through the Schemata system. Essentially there is equipment that boosts HP, strength, magic, defensive and offensive buffs, stuff like that. You can "level up" magic/attacks, too.

Del Murder
02-12-2014, 06:08 PM
Good to know.

Sephiroth
02-12-2014, 06:19 PM
... the doomsday clock hindering exploration.

Those who rate it for this don't know how to handle it. The timelimit is close to non-existant with permanent Chronostasis, which is very easy to get because of the enemies and a variety of tactics.

It is really funny how people react:

FFXIII Hater: Booh, time limit for XIII-3!
FFXIII Hater: Majora's Mask is cool, cool time gameplay.

GT hater: Vegeta and the others act out of character in GT, GT "sucks".
GT hater: Omg, Vegeta dancing in BoG, so out of character! Hilarious! XD

EDIT@ Skyblade: That means it is a time limit. Time limit does not mean countdown, it means you have do something before a certain time is over, the countdown is just a normal way to express that. I may also mention that there is plenty of time in Lightning Returns.

LocoColt04
02-12-2014, 06:24 PM
You do get to customise her stats - this is done through the Schemata system. Essentially there is equipment that boosts HP, strength, magic, defensive and offensive buffs, stuff like that. You can "level up" magic/attacks, too.

You also raise her stats permanently by completing quests.

Rocket Edge
02-12-2014, 07:04 PM
Is it mean't to be better than FFXIII? I trust Gamespot's reviews the least but they gave FFXIII a 8.5 and this a 5.0.

Loony BoB
02-12-2014, 08:35 PM
XIII, XIII-2 and LR:XIII are three completely different games, gameplay-wise. This one is the least like the others. It all depends on what you consider most important when you play the game, but I'm having a lot of fun. This game is sort of like a sandbox/themepark game. I think 5/10 is very harsh, personally, but everyone has the right to decide for themselves. I wouldn't expect XIII-haters to suddenly like the characters or the story, which means they probably won't like the game because it is a major part of it. If you didn't have any real issue with the story/characters in the earlier games, then I think there's every chance you'll find this game quite enjoyable.

I also agree with what Seph mentioned - by day three I could extend time massively, by day four I could extend time near-endlessly.

Sephiroth
02-12-2014, 09:10 PM
Only Hard mode has some EP difficulties as that is part of the challenge but even for that there are battle strategies to recover them.

Skyblade
02-12-2014, 09:23 PM
... the doomsday clock hindering exploration.

Those who rate it for this don't know how to handle it. The timelimit is close to non-existant with permanent Chronostasis, which is very easy to get because of the enemies and a variety of tactics.

It is really funny how people react:

FFXIII Hater: Booh, time limit for XIII-3!
FFXIII Hater: Majora's Mask is cool, cool time gameplay.

GT hater: Vegeta and the others act out of character in GT, GT "sucks".
GT hater: Omg, Vegeta dancing in BoG, so out of character! Hilarious! XD

Majora's Mask isn't a time limit. You can go back and replay the three days as many times as you want, and when you do things becomes important because different things happen at different times of the cycle.

That said, if permanent Chronostasis is a thing, I don't really mind. Does that work on higher difficulties though?

Loony BoB
02-12-2014, 09:35 PM
I only know about Easy Mode and Normal Mode, and I'm playing Normal Mode and I can get it pretty much endless if I can be bothered. There are times you need to let the time tick forward, though, if you want to progress.

Del Murder
02-12-2014, 10:01 PM
It sounds like the time mechanic is handled well enough.

Other than the story and characters (which seems to be a complete mess), the other main negative I gather from these reviews is that the quests are very simplistic and repetitive. Are people finding that true?

As for praise, it seems that the battle system is universally liked and the environments are stunning, which are certainly great positives. I was never a fan of the XIII battle system but this sounds like more the right style.

Loony BoB
02-12-2014, 10:13 PM
The quests are, for me, things you do as a side-effect of exploring a bit and gathering materials during your battles. But as with pretty much any sidequest system, they will inevitably fall down to "fetch quests" on one level or another. I experienced quests where I had to find various ingredients to create a medicine to give to someone, explore areas hunting for items, gathering items from enemies (for Chocolina's questboard's quests)... stuff like that. I never felt like I was doing the same old thing any more than I have in pretty much every single RPG I've ever played. One example of a rather unique quest was that I was given an experimental recovery item that I had to use in a specific battle situation and report back on the results.

Del Murder
02-12-2014, 10:17 PM
Have you ever played Dragon Age: Origins? I feel like that's how you do a quest system right. There was a lot of variety and interaction and you could make choices to affect the outcome. Very few of them felt similar.

Loony BoB
02-12-2014, 10:19 PM
I have, but you know, I just can't remember much about it. xD I can say that you are definitely able to fail certain quests in the game and I stupidly did so. :( Got a pretty guilty feeling when Lightning basically told me "Hey, guess what, you just failed to save that little girl's soul, you jerk" by saying it was all her fault that the person will never have her would saved and she was doomed and whatnot. Brutal.

Sephiroth
02-12-2014, 11:37 PM
I have, but you know, I just can't remember much about it. xD I can say that you are definitely able to fail certain quests in the game and I stupidly did so. :( Got a pretty guilty feeling when Lightning basically told me "Hey, guess what, you just failed to save that little girl's soul, you jerk" by saying it was all her fault that the person will never have her would saved and she was doomed and whatnot. Brutal.

There are not many quests to fail and miss, however. The Luxerion doll quest is mean because you see two dolls and the wrong one is close to the quest girl.

*cough* And it's not like she really fails. *cough*

Ayen
02-13-2014, 12:15 AM
Main complaints I've seen have to do with characters, story, failed attempts at comedy and the doomsday clock hindering exploration. Japan were less critical of it all around.
Yeah, it seems to be a consensus that the story and characters fall completely flat, which is a disappointment but not a surprise. The biggest surprise I learned was that the quests are mostly your typical fetch quests and the stat boosts you get from them are static. In a game with only one character it would be nice to customize her stats more.

The fetch quests don't surprise me. They've been going back and forth between MMOs for years.



... the doomsday clock hindering exploration.

Those who rate it for this don't know how to handle it. The timelimit is close to non-existant with permanent Chronostasis, which is very easy to get because of the enemies and a variety of tactics.

I'm guessing by easy you mean it requires some actual amount of skill to pull off. I've noticed more and more people over here are put off when a game expects you to carry your own weight.

Is it as much as a social media whore as the demo made it sound?

Sephiroth
02-13-2014, 12:28 AM
Easy means easy, so easy to be done and nothing that would make my answer useless like "an actual amount of skill". You go into a battle, win it (difficulty of both the monster and difficulty mode says how many EP you get) and activate your Chronostasis - which costs only 1 EP on Easy Mode. I guess battles in RPGs are something that can be expected to be done. Only hard mode requires some strict time management as battles give way too less EP but as said, for that there are EP recovery strategies. Normal mode is harder than Easy mode and still you can manage time very well on Normal, so it is pretty much as easy to handle as there are plenty of battles and also the tactics to do it in time.

I am surprised about the Lightning Returns critics and how good Final Fantasy X|X-2 will be in some eyes when some very present aspects like soulless eyes and weird lips (poor Yuna has it very often and many others also in Final Fantasy X-2) can be seen in the Remaster, which I have.

Loony BoB
02-13-2014, 11:43 AM
Chronostasis only costs 1 EP in normal mode, too, FYI. But the amount of EP you get per battle is lower. Despite this (and keep in mind a minute in the game is about two seconds in real life) I jumped into the game last night and it was at 8:33am. When I finished playing over two hours later, maybe one hour had passed in the game. It's that easy to stay on top of.


Is it as much as a social media whore as the demo made it sound?
There was one moment where social media was mentioned, I selected 'no' and haven't heard a thing about it since. If you select 'yes' it might be different, not sure. I've switched it to 'yes' last night to see what it unlocked but then it asked me to put codes somewhere or something and I just couldn't be arsed, so I turned it off again. xD The only reason I'd do it is to find out the rewards you can get from it (probably gear) but I figure I'll just wait for guides to be set up for this kind of thing before I jump in.

Mirage
02-13-2014, 11:54 AM
so is it too late to do the demo thing to get the extra costume?

maybee
02-13-2014, 12:13 PM
Majora's Mask isn't a time limit. You can go back and replay the three days as many times as you want, and when you do things becomes important because different things happen at different times of the cycle.



This. From memory, you can mess around with time with the flute-y thingy and go back and forth as much as you desire. It's been a while. I'M OLD AND GRUMPY OKAY ? GET OFF MY LAWN


meh, they could give this game a gold star and best game of since forever award, or the total opposite. Still wouldn't buy it.

Loony BoB
02-13-2014, 12:33 PM
meh, they could give this game a gold star and best game of since forever award, or the total opposite. Still wouldn't buy it.
If you're so against even trying this game, what's the point in posting in a forum dedicated to it (not meaning all of EoFF, but this specific forum)? :confused:

Ayen
02-13-2014, 12:41 PM
Is it as much as a social media whore as the demo made it sound?
There was one moment where social media was mentioned, I selected 'no' and haven't heard a thing about it since. If you select 'yes' it might be different, not sure. I've switched it to 'yes' last night to see what it unlocked but then it asked me to put codes somewhere or something and I just couldn't be arsed, so I turned it off again. xD The only reason I'd do it is to find out the rewards you can get from it (probably gear) but I figure I'll just wait for guides to be set up for this kind of thing before I jump in.

That's good to know. I would have had to drive up to Square and smack some people over the heads if that was a mandatory part you had to deal with the whole game.

maybee
02-13-2014, 02:58 PM
meh, they could give this game a gold star and best game of since forever award, or the total opposite. Still wouldn't buy it.
If you're so against even trying this game, what's the point in posting in a forum dedicated to it (not meaning all of EoFF, but this specific forum)? :confused:


Opinions are opinions, even if they're are still negative. But you're right. I should avoid these parts of the forum 8D

Loony BoB
02-13-2014, 03:09 PM
I have no problem with negative opinions, it's just that normally they come from people who play the game first. xD 'sall good.

Shaibana
02-13-2014, 03:15 PM
most regular players are just not fair in theire judgment.

they either praise it to heaven, or they stomp on it
if they dont like the game they will destroy in in their 'review'

just be honest :l just becaus u dont like the story doesnt mean that the serounding looks awefull (for example)

Noctis Caelum
02-13-2014, 08:42 PM
Time is a bit of a factor on Normal mode. I mean, if you started on Easy, I'm sure it's a breeze, but I felt that would have been TOO easy. I wanted to try it out on Normal first. I haven't gotten far enough to reach this "permanent Chronostasis" stuff yet, so we'll see how that is in this difficulty.


I have no problem with negative opinions, it's just that normally they come from people who play the game first. xD 'sall good.
Negative opinions hurt the sales of the game because people will believe that it's trash if everybody keeps taking critics words for it. I'm not talking about people on Metacritic trolling with 0/10 votes. I mean legit critics that are giving the game a score from 5-7. Which are pretty bad ratings. But XIII and XIII-2 got good ratings from these same people. I believe that they're finally just giving in to pressure and giving the hate on this game, because people expect it. And maybe because the story is a little lackluster. But mostly because hating on XIII is so much fun for people.

Del Murder
02-13-2014, 09:30 PM
I think reviewers deserve a little more credit than they 'give in to the pressure' to hate FFXIII because it's 'fun'. They may have legitimate reasons for not liking this game, especially if a lot of people feel the same way. There are a couple of objective things that can tell you if a game is good or bad (such as precise controls or techical issues) but for the most part reviews are subjective and are the right opinion of that reviewer.

Ayen
02-14-2014, 12:00 AM
Negative opinions hurt the sales of the game because people will believe that it's trash if everybody keeps taking critics words for it. I'm not talking about people on Metacritic trolling with 0/10 votes. I mean legit critics that are giving the game a score from 5-7. Which are pretty bad ratings. But XIII and XIII-2 got good ratings from these same people. I believe that they're finally just giving in to pressure and giving the hate on this game, because people expect it. And maybe because the story is a little lackluster. But mostly because hating on XIII is so much fun for people.

Or they legitimately think that Lightning Returns is poorer than its predecessors.

Jiro
02-14-2014, 01:32 AM
Time is a bit of a factor on Normal mode. I mean, if you started on Easy, I'm sure it's a breeze, but I felt that would have been TOO easy. I wanted to try it out on Normal first. I haven't gotten far enough to reach this "permanent Chronostasis" stuff yet, so we'll see how that is in this difficulty.


I have no problem with negative opinions, it's just that normally they come from people who play the game first. xD 'sall good.
Negative opinions hurt the sales of the game because people will believe that it's trash if everybody keeps taking critics words for it. I'm not talking about people on Metacritic trolling with 0/10 votes. I mean legit critics that are giving the game a score from 5-7. Which are pretty bad ratings. But XIII and XIII-2 got good ratings from these same people. I believe that they're finally just giving in to pressure and giving the hate on this game, because people expect it. And maybe because the story is a little lackluster. But mostly because hating on XIII is so much fun for people.

In what world is 7/10 bad? That's a solid rating. Not amazing, but still enjoyable, usually. If the characters and plot are as shaky as people have mentioned, then 7/10 sounds like a pretty accurate rating.

Another point. I will use the words of Jim Sterling to help me here. "It remains utterly, completely, intellectually insulting to me that we’re in an industry that has decided 9/10 is the manifest destiny of certain games. Based on marketing, name value, and sequel number, there are certain games now pre-ordained to receive near-perfect scores and nothing but the most glowing of praise."

Reviews are subjective things by definition and by nature. If you want objectivity, then you have to determine what elements are most important to every player. You have to decide which genre is the best, because otherwise how do you score a FPS when compared to Lightning Returns? Hybrid games are asking for failure.

Lightning Returns needs to both stand on its own merits and be a strong entry in a mini franchise and a larger one. Did it do that? Seemingly not. People throwing around 0/10 and 10/10 based on feelings toward the Final Fantasy series are useless and distort the ratings. But I find it personally offensive when people claim that critics and their opinions are wrong. What gives you supreme knowledge and credibility? Yes, review scores have an impact on sales, but if you want good sales how about making a fucking good game?

Skyblade
02-14-2014, 05:59 AM
Using the same view of the world Jim Sterling used, there will be games that are always predestined to receive lower scores. When the high scores are shelled out regardless of quality, then reviews cannot be trusted to accurately judge quality.

Jiro
02-14-2014, 09:12 AM
Using a purely numerical system to determine whether or not a game is "good" is a heavily flawed process in itself, but people complaining about 7/10 being bad put pressure on reviewers. I won't even go into the matter of death threats and sackings over scores and comments. Reviewers work in a symbiotic relationship with the games industry and with gamers themselves -- there is a sickness born of all three that affects the shambles that is numerical scoring systems.

Mirage
02-14-2014, 09:44 PM
Time is a bit of a factor on Normal mode. I mean, if you started on Easy, I'm sure it's a breeze, but I felt that would have been TOO easy. I wanted to try it out on Normal first. I haven't gotten far enough to reach this "permanent Chronostasis" stuff yet, so we'll see how that is in this difficulty.


I have no problem with negative opinions, it's just that normally they come from people who play the game first. xD 'sall good.
Negative opinions hurt the sales of the game because people will believe that it's trash if everybody keeps taking critics words for it. I'm not talking about people on Metacritic trolling with 0/10 votes. I mean legit critics that are giving the game a score from 5-7. Which are pretty bad ratings. But XIII and XIII-2 got good ratings from these same people. I believe that they're finally just giving in to pressure and giving the hate on this game, because people expect it. And maybe because the story is a little lackluster. But mostly because hating on XIII is so much fun for people.

In what world is 7/10 bad? That's a solid rating. Not amazing, but still enjoyable, usually. If the characters and plot are as shaky as people have mentioned, then 7/10 sounds like a pretty accurate rating.

Another point. I will use the words of Jim Sterling to help me here. "It remains utterly, completely, intellectually insulting to me that we’re in an industry that has decided 9/10 is the manifest destiny of certain games. Based on marketing, name value, and sequel number, there are certain games now pre-ordained to receive near-perfect scores and nothing but the most glowing of praise."

Reviews are subjective things by definition and by nature. If you want objectivity, then you have to determine what elements are most important to every player. You have to decide which genre is the best, because otherwise how do you score a FPS when compared to Lightning Returns? Hybrid games are asking for failure.

Lightning Returns needs to both stand on its own merits and be a strong entry in a mini franchise and a larger one. Did it do that? Seemingly not. People throwing around 0/10 and 10/10 based on feelings toward the Final Fantasy series are useless and distort the ratings. But I find it personally offensive when people claim that critics and their opinions are wrong. What gives you supreme knowledge and credibility? Yes, review scores have an impact on sales, but if you want good sales how about making a smurfing good game?

I guess you haven't noticed that whole score inflation thing that's been happening over the past decade. In the world of today, 6 is the worst game ever imaginable, and 7 is slightly above that. Scores 1-5 are used only by angry people who want to pull a decent score closer to 6 more easily.

Ayen
02-14-2014, 09:54 PM
In the world of today, 6 is the worst game ever imaginable

There are so many angry Devil May Cry fans right now...