Your thoughts on P3 FES's "The Answer" scenario?

[Fynn]

Persona 3 and Persona 3 FES spoilers ahead. You've been warned.

So my wife just finished P3P. I figured this would be a good chance for us to view The Answer cutscenes, as I did not have an opportunity to play FES and have heard a lot of people say it's so awesome. And yes, I wanted to know what exactly was going on after.

Let's get this out of the way - we were both pretty disappointed. The ideas and themes were all pretty interesting. I think it's awesome that we got a conflict within the party, but the execution was forced - why fight in pairs? Why is Aigis fighting at all if she doesn't know what she want? Why is Koromaru with Junpei? Why does Junpei fight if he's just scared of Nyx? Why aren't he and Koromaru on the same team as Akihiko and Ken when their goal is the same - leaving the dorm (other than the fact that a two-on-four battle would be too hard)?

Now, time for Erebus. Again, I love the idea that it's humanity's own fatalistic tendencies that are the true villain instead of Death personified. But what does fighting him accomplish? Why does he target Aigis? I understand she has a wildcard now, but she's not exactly a threat as the seal's already in place and placing another won't change a thing so essentially, killing her does Erebus no good. Fighting it accomplished absolutely nothing aside from giving the game a final boss. If they had only discovered the true nature of the seal and not battled, it would not have impacted the plot in the slightest, because at the end they say Erebus is a threat as long as people don't change. Not to mention, he seems pretty anticlimactic, but that's subjective.

Any thoughts? Perhaps some answers to those questions, other that sloppy writing? I really was expecting better, especially after such a strong scenario in "The Journey", this just seems shoehorned in, unnecessarily padded, rushed, and a waste of good potential.

[Wolf Kanno]

Persona 3 and Persona 3 FES spoilers ahead. You've been warned.

So my wife just finished P3P. I figured this would be a good chance for us to view The Answer cutscenes, as I did not have an opportunity to play FES and have heard a lot of people say it's so awesome. And yes, I wanted to know what exactly was going on after.

Guess I'll do my best to answer this for you.


Let's get this out of the way - we were both pretty disappointed.

Sorry to hear that...


The ideas and themes were all pretty interesting. I think it's awesome that we got a conflict within the party, but the execution was forced

I only partially agree, I do feel it could have been handled better but I can't say I was disappointed with the execution as much as you seem to be.


why fight in pairs? The cast is large and by splitting the group into four groups of two you end up creating the classic MegaTen conflict:

Aigis/Metis/Fuuka = Player character and the power of choice
Junpie/Koro-chan = Neutral they don't want conflict and see both sides of the argument.
Akihiko/Ken = Law, they wish to maintain the status quo.
Yukari/Mitsuru = Chaos, they wish to change the world fo themselves, even if might mean the end of the world.



Why is Aigis fighting at all if she doesn't know what she want?
Largely because Akihiko or Yukari's team would eventually come after her for her piece of the key. By collecting all the key parts, she can forcibly stop the groups in-fighting.


Why is Koromaru with Junpei?
Largely cause Junpei needed a partner, partly because Koro's personality aligns with Junpei's neutral stance, and partly because the Answer shows that Koro is the next closest to Junpei after Shinji thanks to their flashback showing that the two met prior to the beginning of P3.


Why does Junpei fight if he's just scared of Nyx?
Junpei knows he needs to protect his key, as I said, Yukari and possibly Akihiko would have forcibly taken the keys from everyone else had Aigis not beaten them to it. Junpei is also unaware of what Aigis intends to do so he can't very well just hand them over to her since she is also uncertain about which path to take.


Why aren't he and Koromaru on the same team as Akihiko and Ken when their goal is the same - leaving the dorm (other than the fact that a two-on-four battle would be too hard)?

Because Junpei isn't totally aligned with Akihiko. Sure he believes undoing the seal on Nyx is a bad move but as the other person closest to the MC, he can totally sympathize with Yukari's stance. In truth, Junpei wanted to talk the issue over some more but both Akihiko and Yukari made their choices and were ready to fight for it so he took his own side as the side of moderation. If you remember he was the one thinking the group needed to sit down and discuss the situation further. Had Aigis been less wishy washy, I feel Junpei would have sided with her.

The other issue here is that the battles represent Aigis making sense of her her own social connections. She doesn't have any friends outside of S.E.E.S. and since the game didn't feel like re-hashing the Social Link system, Aigis had to find another way to reach an "understanding" and build a better bond with the few friends she had in order solidify the game's theme about "bonds and choices".



Now, time for Erebus. Again, I love the idea that it's humanity's own fatalistic tendencies that are the true villain instead of Death personified. But what does fighting him accomplish? Why does he target Aigis? I understand she has a wildcard now, but she's not exactly a threat as the seal's already in place and placing another won't change a thing so essentially, killing her does Erebus no good. Fighting it accomplished absolutely nothing aside from giving the game a final boss. If they had only discovered the true nature of the seal and not battled, it would not have impacted the plot in the slightest, because at the end they say Erebus is a threat as long as people don't change. Not to mention, he seems pretty anticlimactic, but that's subjective.

As a Wild Card, Aigis is a threat so Erebus does have reason to strike but maybe my memory is foggy but I was pretty sure Erebus is simply a rage monster that attacked the group because they were there. If it felt like Aigis was single out its simply because she's the 'leader".

The battle itself was also largely symbolic. the party finally discovered the truth about the MC, not simply what he had done at the end but also the secrets he kept like the Velvet Room and so forth. In truth the party realized that the battle they fought against the Shadows and Nyx was a fight he really did fight alone and so stopping Erebus, even if it was only temporary, was a means for them to feel like they were helping him when they really couldn't before.

The other issue is that Erebus ultimately reinforces the theme of P3 and the Apathy Syndrome cases. Mankind is the source of its own downfall but it can also be the source of its greatness. This is a theme that pretty much every entry in the series shares and most of the threats to humanity over the course of the series is directly the result of mankind growing too complacent and forgetting to appreciate what they have and thus subconsciously calls down disaster upon themselves to shake up their ho-hum existence. The Revelation of Erebus gives the team a new focus in the aftermath. Before they simply were besides themselves with grief but now they known how they can make a difference and the discovery changed their perception of the world and how they view it. Now they realize the power they really have and how their goal should be to enter the world and make it a better place. It's a pretty damn optimistic ending and excellent closure to a group that has endured so much. It's even amusing seeing how this has affected them when you see the group again in P4 Arena, with Junpei and Yukari doing their part to make a new generation appreciate life and have hope for the future. Hell even Erebus makes a return in Elizabeth's story and it seems to me like the writers are not quite done with him.



Any thoughts? Perhaps some answers to those questions, other that sloppy writing? I really was expecting better, especially after such a strong scenario in "The Journey", this just seems shoehorned in, unnecessarily padded, rushed, and a waste of good potential.

[Skyblade]

Wolf, he asked for answers "other than sloppy writing". When the reasons include "well, Junpei needed a partner", that's sloppy writing.

The Answer was one of the worst written portions of the series, in my opinion. Everything about it felt forced. I liked a lot of the individual moments, but none of the setup really worked at all. Erebus was awesome, several of the backstory moments and exploration were awesome. But a lot of the main setup felt wrong, not to mention the entire time travel setup popping in at the last second didn't really feel like great writing.

Honestly, I think they would have done a lot better to work this moments into the main game, to include the opportunity for flashbacks during the main story. The Answer just FEELS like a tacked-on extra, not really part of the overall story.

I also hated the retcon of the ending, but that's just me.

[Wolf Kanno]

Wolf, he asked for answers "other than sloppy writing". When the reasons include "well, Junpei needed a partner", that's sloppy writing.

While I agree that the reasoning for the two teaming up is sloppy writing, I disagree that this somehow disavows everything else that I wrote. The groups do in fact line up with the classic MegaTen choice system. Yukari and Akihiko did both threaten the other groups that they would take their keys by force, and Junpei did want to talk the situation through more before making a choice. So it wasn't all "sloppy writing".

I enjoy The Answer because it did two things, it did a good job dealing with a group mourning a death and trying to come to terms with it, and it showed a very ambitious take on what happens when a group gets a very difficult choice to change the past even if it meant dooming humanity. We got to see how P3 affected the cast and The Answer shows us why this game is so fundamentally different from P4's happy family cast. P4 cast walked away as the unknown heroes, P3's cast survived a difficult conflict.

It also gave the cast a happier ending, which is something when you consider only one Persona game's canon ending is actually upbeat (P4) while the rest are bittersweet at best.

[Skyblade]

Wolf, he asked for answers "other than sloppy writing". When the reasons include "well, Junpei needed a partner", that's sloppy writing.

While I agree that the reasoning for the two teaming up is sloppy writing, I disagree that this somehow disavows everything else that I wrote. The groups do in fact line up with the classic MegaTen choice system. Yukari and Akihiko did both threaten the other groups that they would take their keys by force, and Junpei did want to talk the situation through more before making a choice. So it wasn't all "sloppy writing".

Yes, but the reasons for the threats and the entire setup was "it fed into the design", rather than "it felt natural for the characters".


I enjoy The Answer because it did two things, it did a good job dealing with a group mourning a death and trying to come to terms with it, and it showed a very ambitious take on what happens when a group gets a very difficult choice to change the past even if it meant dooming humanity. We got to see how P3 affected the cast and The Answer shows us why this game is so fundamentally different from P4's happy family cast. P4 cast walked away as the unknown heroes, P3's cast survived a difficult conflict.

It also gave the cast a happier ending, which is something when you consider only one Persona game's canon ending is actually upbeat (P4) while the rest are bittersweet at best.

I hate the way they changed the ending. The ending of Persona 3 was ambiguous, and deliberately so. Minato's fate was never declared. There were indications feeding both way, that he survived, that he died. You could take it any way, and have plenty of evidence supporting you (Ryoji: "Don't worry, time will continue for you, and for him". FRELLING LIAR!). It did, in fact, feed back into the entire theme of the game and the series: Hope versus despair, with freedom to choose being the determining factor between which fate awaits in the end.

The original ending was nearly perfect. The battle was one, but at the cost of the team's memories and friendships. Only Minato and Aegis remembered. Until the day of the promise, when they all remember, and join together. It was upbeat and hopeful. The Answer renders THAT reunion kind of pointless, since they just meet back up to beat the crap out of each other for contrived reasons.

[Scotty_ffgamer]

I will say that I kind of prefer the ending of Persona 3 as is without the addition of The Answer, but I did feel that The Answer all in all tied into the themes of the main game really well. The Answer had great moments, and I do like some of the things it sets up for (such as Elizabeth's scenario in Persona 4 Arena). The Answer wasn't as well written, but it provided some good resolution for the characters who aren't Minato.

The ending of the main game was much more emotional for me though. Talking to all of your social links one last time and seeing where those characters succeeded and failed was nice. It was also open for interpretation, though it is heavily implied that Minato died at the end considering up until the last moment everyone talks about just how terrible and sick and tired you look. It was nice closure for Minato though, as you knew that whether or not he died at the end, he was satisfied with his choices and everything that had gone on before. Despite it not being as well written, I did like exploring how the rest of the party deals with his death and tries to come to terms with everything they did as well.

As for Erebus, I don't know if this was my interpretation or if it was just an idea I had read somewhere, but an idea that popped up was that Erebus attacked the party because it was drawn to the power of the Wild Card in Aigis. It wasn't really that it was a threat persay, but more that it was drawn by the thought of trying to use that power to break Minato's seal.Interesting thought that you can throw out the window if you want, haha.

[Skyblade]

Erebus is on a constant quest for non-existence. Denied its path to Death, it seeks the largest power it can to try to reach oblivion. As Elizabeth said:


Do you truly wish to see Death so much? Very well, I will oblige you.

[Wolf Kanno]

Yes, but the reasons for the threats and the entire setup was "it fed into the design", rather than "it felt natural for the characters".

I felt it was pretty logically consistent and not simply game design. Akihiko and Ken have both dealt with death before and Shinji's death in P3 hiot both of them harder than the rest of the cast but they both resolved to move forward and not dwell in the past. It was pretty much the speech Akihiko gave to Yukari when the group fought about it. This is still very consistent with both of them especially since they were the closest.

Yukari is pretty devastated about Minato's death but this is obvious because the game really pushed these two to be together unlike the other protagonists whose romantic leanings are really ambiguous (Though the series character designer is pushing for Yu and Yusuke pairing). Mitsuru explains why she sided with Yukari, because of the help and support Yukari gave to her after Mitsurur was left devastated from her father's death. She promised to stand by Yukari as thanks for this even though she knew Yukari's decision was wrong. Junpei is the most easy going party member so it makes sense he would be the one against the group fighting along with Aigis and Fuuka. Besides after all the crap he pulled in P3, you want to deny the fans the chance to punch him the face with Mara?

Granted the Junpei/Koro group is the weak link here and I concede that but the other two made perfect sense and it made sense that the other cast members had no reason to side with either faction so thus we had a third group.



I hate the way they changed the ending. The ending of Persona 3 was ambiguous, and deliberately so. Minato's fate was never declared. There were indications feeding both way, that he survived, that he died. You could take it any way, and have plenty of evidence supporting you (Ryoji: "Don't worry, time will continue for you, and for him". FRELLING LIAR!). It did, in fact, feed back into the entire theme of the game and the series: Hope versus despair, with freedom to choose being the determining factor between which fate awaits in the end.

The original ending was nearly perfect. The battle was one, but at the cost of the team's memories and friendships. Only Minato and Aegis remembered. Until the day of the promise, when they all remember, and join together. It was upbeat and hopeful. The Answer renders THAT reunion kind of pointless, since they just meet back up to beat the crap out of each other for contrived reasons.

I'm going with Scott_ffgamer here and say that the ending really paints the fact that Minato is not doing well in the ending so I have a harder time interpreting the "happy" ending you envisioned. Granted I didn't pay attention very well my first time through and thought the same as you, but after playing the game a second time through I caught the more sinister implications of the games ending. The Answer simply confirmed my suspicions and I honestly feel its grown into one of the more intriguing subplots for the series, though I'm still waiting for IS Tatsuya's parallel world to come back and bite the series in the ass as well but that may never happen. I alos feel that Minato's death works for the cast of P3 because they relied so much on him that when he was gone they were left to finally make the hard choices themselves and that to me represents that we the player are suppose to also walk away from the game and apply its message of making the most of our lives everyday.

[Skyblade]

Yes, but the reasons for the threats and the entire setup was "it fed into the design", rather than "it felt natural for the characters".

I felt it was pretty logically consistent and not simply game design. Akihiko and Ken have both dealt with death before and Shinji's death in P3 hiot both of them harder than the rest of the cast but they both resolved to move forward and not dwell in the past. It was pretty much the speech Akihiko gave to Yukari when the group fought about it. This is still very consistent with both of them especially since they were the closest.

Yukari is pretty devastated about Minato's death but this is obvious because the game really pushed these two to be together unlike the other protagonists whose romantic leanings are really ambiguous (Though the series character designer is pushing for Yu and Yusuke pairing). Mitsuru explains why she sided with Yukari, because of the help and support Yukari gave to her after Mitsurur was left devastated from her father's death. She promised to stand by Yukari as thanks for this even though she knew Yukari's decision was wrong. Junpei is the most easy going party member so it makes sense he would be the one against the group fighting along with Aigis and Fuuka. Besides after all the crap he pulled in P3, you want to deny the fans the chance to punch him the face with Mara?

Granted the Junpei/Koro group is the weak link here and I concede that but the other two made perfect sense and it made sense that the other cast members had no reason to side with either faction so thus we had a third group.

The group infighting as a whole I didn't really like. It didn't make much sense. The entire game was spent with them overcoming their past troubles and trauma and unifying as a team. Then a shiny magic key comes along and *BAM*. Everyone starts beating each other up. The groupings may work overall, but the setup is weak.

Also, the setup for the time travel is weak. It just suddenly pops into existence at the start, and then shuts down at the end. No foreshadowing, no explanation, no real closure. Just voila. Time Travel.

Also, it makes Player Choice of romance options pointless, which I also hate.



I hate the way they changed the ending. The ending of Persona 3 was ambiguous, and deliberately so. Minato's fate was never declared. There were indications feeding both way, that he survived, that he died. You could take it any way, and have plenty of evidence supporting you (Ryoji: "Don't worry, time will continue for you, and for him". FRELLING LIAR!). It did, in fact, feed back into the entire theme of the game and the series: Hope versus despair, with freedom to choose being the determining factor between which fate awaits in the end.

The original ending was nearly perfect. The battle was one, but at the cost of the team's memories and friendships. Only Minato and Aegis remembered. Until the day of the promise, when they all remember, and join together. It was upbeat and hopeful. The Answer renders THAT reunion kind of pointless, since they just meet back up to beat the crap out of each other for contrived reasons.

I'm going with Scott_ffgamer here and say that the ending really paints the fact that Minato is not doing well in the ending so I have a harder time interpreting the "happy" ending you envisioned. Granted I didn't pay attention very well my first time through and thought the same as you, but after playing the game a second time through I caught the more sinister implications of the games ending. The Answer simply confirmed my suspicions and I honestly feel its grown into one of the more intriguing subplots for the series, though I'm still waiting for IS Tatsuya's parallel world to come back and bite the series in the ass as well but that may never happen. I alos feel that Minato's death works for the cast of P3 because they relied so much on him that when he was gone they were left to finally make the hard choices themselves and that to me represents that we the player are suppose to also walk away from the game and apply its message of making the most of our lives everyday.

I once read a fairly complex essay listing a ton of minor things that were hinted or showed themes trending towards his survival. I wish I could find it again, but it was something I read about five years ago, and I have no clue where it was. There's also the heavy stress from Ryoji in the chat with SEES after the victory that Minato wasn't going to die as a result of the battle, that's like 90% of what he's saying there. It may have been a theory, but I felt it was open enough to leave it a choice.

There's also the fact that I find it kind of hard to believe that Mitsuru would let him die (especially if you romanced her). I think it more likely she'd take him to a hospital and keep him on life support indefinitely (not that I think it would matter, I highly doubt that the death of his body would stop him coming back if the seal was no longer needed). The way she did, say, Chidori.


However the biggest issue, is that taking it as a death, I think the actual execution of the death scene was absolutely sublime in Persona 3. The fade to white and peaceful drift to eternal sleep, with dreams of friends floating through the clouds during the credits was absolutely frelling brilliant, and I felt that The Answer's handling of his death really marred that. The battle with Erebus and the reveal of the Great Seal was fantastic (easily the best part of the entire Chapter), but I felt that discussions and explanations of his death after that were just unnecessary, and blighted the overall work. Their content may have been the same, but the presentation was incredibly lacking by comparison.

[Wolf Kanno]

The group infighting as a whole I didn't really like. It didn't make much sense. The entire game was spent with them overcoming their past troubles and trauma and unifying as a team. Then a shiny magic key comes along and *BAM*. Everyone starts beating each other up. The groupings may work overall, but the setup is weak.

I disagree, its obvious from the beginning that Minato's death has splintered the group, some have accepted and moved on, others are still trying to come to terms, and both Yukari and Aigis are obviously in denial. Sure they bonded but we're talking about something absolutely fantastic falling into their hands and this was just right after the revelation about the Shadow Minato they chased throughout the Abyss of Time and how the whole group of them was still coming to terms with his death only to suddenly be told they have a shot of going back and stopping him from making his choice. The group bonded but they still haven't come to grips with Minato's death and the choice was about his death so freindship be damned the group is easily shown to be in an emotionally vulnerable moment. I felt the infighting made sense, especially since P3's cast never bonded into a family per se, they are more like comrade, fellow soldiers that survived a war.


Also, the setup for the time travel is weak. It just suddenly pops into existence at the start, and then shuts down at the end. No foreshadowing, no explanation, no real closure. Just voila. Time Travel.

Not going to disagree there,. even I felt it was kind of far fetched the first time I played through but considering how many wacky plot threads and other bizarre crap happens in the series let alone the MegaTen franchise as a whole, I simply rolled with it. Not saying it wasn't poorly executed but I certainly wasn't as bothered by it as you were, I mean I just finished watching Minato beat up the physical embodiment of death, which happens to be our moon, with the power of love and friendship, I'm not going to question a rip in space and time caused by the party feeling mopey about the MC's death.


Also, it makes Player Choice of romance options pointless, which I also hate.

To me it was pretty obvious that Yukari and the MC were meant to be together, they have many tender moments together in just the main story whereas the other characters got zero air time. Her special date events are also more personal and intimate compared to the other characters if you do a side by side comparison. Likewise Yukari needs the MC as a romantic relationship compared to the others. The other girls dealt with issues about their own self-worth and choices they made but Yukari's Social Link deals with her inability to be intimate with men because she doesn't want to be like her mother. Her family issues seriously screwed her up and for her, having a real romance works.

While the non-party member girls could all certainly work either way, I always felt the ability to have relationships with Fuuka and Mitsuru felt forced cause I could see neither of them really being motivated by love. They don't really need it to be who they are and thus the actual relationships while sweet, always felt forced to me. I really can't see Mitsuru falling in love, she strikes me as a career woman first and I am alright with that, besides she needs to hook up with Akihiko anyway. :p

I always imagine the MC was a hound dog and took them all as part of his harem. I mean let's face it the dating mechanics in FES are not as good as later installments. Though I would point out that Yukari being devastated like she was doesn't necessarily mean she's the canon partner, she may have simply had unrequited feelings for him and lost the chance to be with him, so he could have dated any of them. It's not like The Answer flat out states they were an official couple so the dating choices still largely stand.




I once read a fairly complex essay listing a ton of minor things that were hinted or showed themes trending towards his survival. I wish I could find it again, but it was something I read about five years ago, and I have no clue where it was. There's also the heavy stress from Ryoji in the chat with SEES after the victory that Minato wasn't going to die as a result of the battle, that's like 90% of what he's saying there. It may have been a theory, but I felt it was open enough to leave it a choice.

There's also the fact that I find it kind of hard to believe that Mitsuru would let him die (especially if you romanced her). I think it more likely she'd take him to a hospital and keep him on life support indefinitely (not that I think it would matter, I highly doubt that the death of his body would stop him coming back if the seal was no longer needed). The way she did, say, Chidori.

Technically Minato didn't die at the battle, Ryoji never said he wouldn't die later and Minato survived on pure willpower alone for several months after the fateful day. So Ryoji didn't necessarily lie about it. Also Mitsuru does state that they took him to the hospitable but he simply stopped, even Chidori was on her way to the morgue when they finally noticed the heartbeat and then put her on life support. I don't think it happened for Minato but who knows, he may still be in a hospital owned by the Kirijo Group, I don't remember the group mentioning a burial. Of anything, the revelation about Erebus would most likely have made the group choose to formally bury him anyway if he hasn't already because even they understand that beating Erebus may not happen in their lifetime.


However the biggest issue, is that taking it as a death, I think the actual execution of the death scene was absolutely sublime in Persona 3. The fade to white and peaceful drift to eternal sleep, with dreams of friends floating through the clouds during the credits was absolutely frelling brilliant, and I felt that The Answer's handling of his death really marred that. The battle with Erebus and the reveal of the Great Seal was fantastic (easily the best part of the entire Chapter), but I felt that discussions and explanations of his death after that were just unnecessary, and blighted the overall work. Their content may have been the same, but the presentation was incredibly lacking by comparison.

I will have to disagree with you, while I agree his actual death scene in the ending was really well done, the aftermath of the party talking about it is completely understandable and I felt it didn't distract from the original ending. Your friend goes to sleep, doesn't wake up, stops breathing and loses his heartbeat, and the doctor doesn't know how they died, they simply stopped. It was a devastating thing for them to experience. The hero got his last happy ending but death is a tragedy for the living. We don't mourn the dead for their sake, mourning is for the sake of the living and that was what The Answer was about, the party mourning over the death of a great person. It would have felt absolutely awkward to have the party be all cherful and upbeat about his death, especially when it came so suddenly and without warning. The way the game handles the groups reaction to his death is largely spot on psychologically speaking.

[NeoCracker]

This discussion has lead me to the realization that most of the SMT games, to an extent, can all have "...And Friendship" tagged on to the end of their plot synapsis and it would be totally correct.

Oh and Wolf is totally on the ball here. :p

[Skyblade]

Most of The Answer just felt lackluster compared to the main game. I mean, look at Erebus. As much as I adore Erebus from a lore perspective, it is just a step down from Nyx as a final boss (although I'm not sure that they could match that last boss fight, Nyx was one of the best in gaming). I felt that the handling of Minato's end was a similar way. It's not necessarily bad, I just feel that it doesn't live up to the original handling of it, in my mind. The setup of the chapter sort of goes the same way. Not horrible (except for the time travel introduction, which I can honestly overlook), but not as good as the original.

[Fynn]

That's kinda what I meant. The ideas were awesome, but the execution was bad. Erebus is isnteresting from a lore perspective, but it would be enough if the party just saw it and not had to fight it - it was tacked on as a final boss. How everybody deals with their grief and this causing an internal conflict in their group is also a nice idea, but they didn't need to seperate them into four neat factions, just to represent the traditional MegaTen alignments. Hell, Junpei should stick with Aigis, and even if he stuck with Akihiko and Ken, Koromaru had a way bigger reason to stay with Aigis, like, you know, the fact that she can speak doge?

It's kinda like Skyblade said - all the subtlety that the Journey had about it's message of life and death is thrown out the window. I get that it's about grief, that could have been cool, but I really felt this was rushed.

Also, Fuuka says "I just remembered something" or something similar about three times in this scenario. You can say what you want about the rest, but this is just incredibly lazy writing :p

[Wolf Kanno]

It seems to me that part of the issue you two have is that you were expecting The Answer to be Persona 3-2 when it is clearly not. It's a prologue that ties up some of the story like what happened to the rest of S.E.E.S. after the MC died. Erebus wasn't suppose to be another "Nyx" it was just a physical manifestation of something we already knew caused The Fall from happening. I mean it does clock in 30-40 hours of gameplay but if you strip the dungeon crawling from it, the actual story only makes up a few hours of that time. It was not meant to be a stand alone sequel its basically an expansion episode.

I also get the sneaking suspicion that it's not so much the party "neatly" breaking up that bothered you two as much as the actual fact they did fight that seems to be bothering you two but I could be looking up the wrong tree on that. While I concede that Junpei's group had no real reason to form, I still stand by the fact the game does an upstanding job of giving legitimate reasons for the conflict and the other two factions. Personally I didn't mind getting the chance to smack Junpei so maybe Aigis did cause she felt the same way I did but as I stated, Yukari and Akihiko made it clear they would fight to protect their choices and technically Junpei and Aigis' stance were not the same so they didn't have a reason to join forces. This isn't helped that Aigis allied herself with Metis whom no one in the group trusts so there are a few reasons why Junpei could have refused. Aigis also lost her ability to speak to Koro-Chan in The Answer because her internal conflict made her lose herself. It was one of the signs that something was wrong with Aigis that was made clear when the party saw her memory in the Abyss of Time and when the game finally reveals Metis' true identity.

As for the Abyss coming out of nowhere, I agree it's true but it also seems to me that the Persona Team isn't finished with it yet because it looks like its a new battle location in the P4 Arena sequel so it may finally get fleshed out in future entries.

[Jessweeee♪]

I really enjoyed The Answer when I played it, but I don't find myself missing it now that I only have the PSP version.

[Wolf Kanno]

This discussion has lead me to the realization that most of the SMT games, to an extent, can all have "...And Friendship" tagged on to the end of their plot synapsis and it would be totally correct.

I would actually disagree with that. It works for DemiKids, SMT if... and the Persona series, but certainly not the main SMT games, Digital Devil Saga, or the Devil Summoner series.

[Fynn]

It certainly does work for DDS.

[Wolf Kanno]

I guess that's true now that I think about it.

[NeoCracker]

It also does minor with SMT IV, though yeah, Definitely not III.

Also holds pretty true with Devil Survivor.

[Wolf Kanno]

I would disagree with SMTIV, most of your "friendships' don't end very well depending on the path you take nor does the friendship actually save the day. I could almost say the same for Devil Survivor 1 since it's not actually as important as you think since the story is a basic SMT plot with some attempted character development.