Forsaken Lover
04-01-2014, 01:19 AM
So a short exchange between me and WK in VMs got me to make this thread.
Said exchange:
I wanna make a topic about this but I have already made a couple Xenogears topics lately and I do talk about it too much...
Doesn't it seem like Cloud is "out of place" in the FF series? That he has very little in common with any other Final Fantasy protagonist? As we both know, Xenogears was once supposed to be FFVII and it seems they took some of the ideas and concepts from early Xenogears and put them in VII. As a result, Cloud is much more like Fei than Cecil or Squall or any of them.
I hate to say it but I have to disagree. Cloud's character borrows heavily from Cecil's archetype and his story of self-identity is sort of a strange mishmash of Cecil's journey of redemption and Terra's struggle to find her place in the world.
Granted, I do feel Cloud takes some elements from Fei (Masato Kato did work on both projects as a writer) such as a heavier emphasis on psychological issues and both games play with Disassociation Personality Disorder but I wouldn't go so far as to say that Cloud is necessarily unique from other main characters anymore than they are to begin with. Cecil was the first villain protagonist who turned good, Terra was the first protagonist who struggled with issues about identity, Squall was the first character that players truly got into his head and got to see his complete character, and Tidus was the first character whom the player experienced his early and later incarnations simultaneously through the use of narration and clever use of in median res.
What makes Cloud unique is that he's the Anti-Bartz, Bartz was a nobody who learns that he is a somebody and his heroic deads are sort of a familial destiny. Cloud on the other hand, thinks he's somebody only to learn he's actually nobody, but the point is to give the message that even nobodies can be heroes if they put their minds to it (and get genetically modified by the bad guys to gain super powers).
Fei's story is... well its complicated and I don't want to fill this page with another wall of text to get my point. Still I feel its a good topic and there is nothing wrong with making another Gears thread if you ask me
First off it should be pointed out that I don't think Cloud was ever considered a villain like Dark Knight Cecil. Even in his false memory SOLDIER Cloud was just that - a soldier. He wasn't going around slaughtering innocents and plundering their crystals. While it's true in the main that he "worked for the bad guys," he never did anything bad for them so i don't see the similarity with Cecil. That's probably because Cecil's whole tale is one of redemption while Cloud has nothing to be redeemed for. He was never a bad guy in either his false memory or reality.
Now onto the reason I feel a greater connection between Fei and Cloud.
Both stories are ultimately one of piecing together a fragmented and forgotten past and discovering who you are from that past. Both of them would obviously rather forget their pasts too as the reason it's all a blank is largely due to trauma. They have Dark and Troubled Pasts they want to move on from. Similarly they both have "a dark half" in them that make them do evil. Sephiroth can control Cloud's "real self" that he has shut away and Id can hijacK Fei's body.
The true climax of both their characters is realizing who they are. One of the best moments in VII is when Cloud removes the helmet and you realize that Shinra Grunt was him all along. And on the XG side, Fei learning what happened to Karen and merging together all his personalities was just as memorable.
Now obviously Wolf is smarter than me in these matters and I'm sure a lot of you are as well. But this was my reasoning for making that initial statement. I'd like to read more walls of text from Wk and anyone else who is interested. :)
Said exchange:
I wanna make a topic about this but I have already made a couple Xenogears topics lately and I do talk about it too much...
Doesn't it seem like Cloud is "out of place" in the FF series? That he has very little in common with any other Final Fantasy protagonist? As we both know, Xenogears was once supposed to be FFVII and it seems they took some of the ideas and concepts from early Xenogears and put them in VII. As a result, Cloud is much more like Fei than Cecil or Squall or any of them.
I hate to say it but I have to disagree. Cloud's character borrows heavily from Cecil's archetype and his story of self-identity is sort of a strange mishmash of Cecil's journey of redemption and Terra's struggle to find her place in the world.
Granted, I do feel Cloud takes some elements from Fei (Masato Kato did work on both projects as a writer) such as a heavier emphasis on psychological issues and both games play with Disassociation Personality Disorder but I wouldn't go so far as to say that Cloud is necessarily unique from other main characters anymore than they are to begin with. Cecil was the first villain protagonist who turned good, Terra was the first protagonist who struggled with issues about identity, Squall was the first character that players truly got into his head and got to see his complete character, and Tidus was the first character whom the player experienced his early and later incarnations simultaneously through the use of narration and clever use of in median res.
What makes Cloud unique is that he's the Anti-Bartz, Bartz was a nobody who learns that he is a somebody and his heroic deads are sort of a familial destiny. Cloud on the other hand, thinks he's somebody only to learn he's actually nobody, but the point is to give the message that even nobodies can be heroes if they put their minds to it (and get genetically modified by the bad guys to gain super powers).
Fei's story is... well its complicated and I don't want to fill this page with another wall of text to get my point. Still I feel its a good topic and there is nothing wrong with making another Gears thread if you ask me
First off it should be pointed out that I don't think Cloud was ever considered a villain like Dark Knight Cecil. Even in his false memory SOLDIER Cloud was just that - a soldier. He wasn't going around slaughtering innocents and plundering their crystals. While it's true in the main that he "worked for the bad guys," he never did anything bad for them so i don't see the similarity with Cecil. That's probably because Cecil's whole tale is one of redemption while Cloud has nothing to be redeemed for. He was never a bad guy in either his false memory or reality.
Now onto the reason I feel a greater connection between Fei and Cloud.
Both stories are ultimately one of piecing together a fragmented and forgotten past and discovering who you are from that past. Both of them would obviously rather forget their pasts too as the reason it's all a blank is largely due to trauma. They have Dark and Troubled Pasts they want to move on from. Similarly they both have "a dark half" in them that make them do evil. Sephiroth can control Cloud's "real self" that he has shut away and Id can hijacK Fei's body.
The true climax of both their characters is realizing who they are. One of the best moments in VII is when Cloud removes the helmet and you realize that Shinra Grunt was him all along. And on the XG side, Fei learning what happened to Karen and merging together all his personalities was just as memorable.
Now obviously Wolf is smarter than me in these matters and I'm sure a lot of you are as well. But this was my reasoning for making that initial statement. I'd like to read more walls of text from Wk and anyone else who is interested. :)