Captain America: Winter Soldier

[Ayen]

I saw this movie yesterday right before SHIELD on ABC (good timing, I have to say) and it was freaking fantastic!

[/thread]

Okay, no, I should go into more detail. I think this was the best Marvel movie in phase II so far, if not the best one in general. And that's a real impressive feat because coming out of the Avengers, I agreed with the sentiment that none of the solo movies should try to beat it in terms of spectacle, but do everything that each individual Avenger can do on their own that they can't do in a group. This just knocks it out of the park and I'm not the biggest Captain America fan either. I never read any of the comics, I didn't watch the first movie, but none of it was that hard to follow for me and it was still immensely enjoyable. The message is simple, everyone in this movie is on top of their game and the problems it did have seem so minor that it doesn't take away from the overall enjoyment of the movie. The Winter Soldier was cool, Falcon was cool, of course the returning characters go without saying. Hell, Robin was cool in this movie. That said... *is suddenly held at gunpoint* Sorry, the critic in me must speak. Don't read the below spoilers if you haven't seen the movie yet:

The Nick Fury death thing kept me on edge to the point where I legitimately thought they were going to have the balls to keep him dead which would have affected more than just SHIELD but the second Avengers movie. But no. It was a faux death. And that pissed me off because I thought it was so well done, too. I'm not too disappointed he isn't dead because Nick Fury is awesome, but I'm just really getting tired of all these close calls and "not really dead" I see in movies and TV.

The Senator as a villain was something you could see coming a mile away. My dad guessed he'd be a bad guy several minutes before he was revealed as a bad guy. He served his role well, though. I definitely gave him the finger and cheered when Nick shot him, but again, this has been done how many times? "I'm definitely not a villain!" Can we make these things less obvious?

I already knew who the Winter Soldier was going in because while I haven't read Captain America comics I have enough general knowledge of some things to where it wasn't really a secret. Hell, you can find out who the Winter Soldier is if you look at the cast list on IMDb. They didn't really do a good job of keeping that secret. Even if you knew nothing about the comics and avoided the internet, the scene where they mention Bucky's death is kind of a giveaway, otherwise why mention it? The thing with Hydra, though? That was a pretty damn clever plot twist.

So yeah, apart from certain parts of the plot being easy to guess and some backpedaling going on this is easily the best movie I've seen all year.

btw, who else screamed like a fangirl when they saw Abed?

Discuss.

[Slothy]

Honestly believe it was the best of the Marvel movies so far after seeing it last night. Maybe that will change with time and a repeat viewing, but I don't think so. That was one hell of a tightly made movie on all fronts.

As far as the Hydra reveal, I must admit that I didn't see that coming, though had I realized that the strike team leader was Crossbones I might have figured it out sooner given his association with the Red Skull and his daughter in the comics. But I definitely liked it and felt they were updated in a way that definitely makes sense in the modern world. I'm actually looking forward to seeing more of them in later movies now. I feel that well still has a good deal to offer.

And relating to the Winter Soldier and the faked death of Nick Fury, firstly, I wasn't bothered by Nick Fury faking his death. Largely because he does it often in the comics and it's just him through and through. He's a man who always has a plan and is frequently either one step ahead of his enemies in knowing what their schemes are, or in putting himself in a position to stop them, so it fits. I don't want to see them ever do it again in the movies though because it will lose it's impact if they just have him fake his death every few films.

But the second thing I want to say on the subject of characters dying is that knowing what I know of the Winter Soldier from the comics, it won't surprise me one bit if we actually see Cap die, either in the next Captain America movie, or the third Avengers, and have Bucky take up his mantle as he did in the comics. I think it would be cool for them to go there, and explore the possibility of actually killing a major character in the films, and not bring him back to life later on. I especially think it's likely given Chris Evan's stating recently that he'd like to leave acting and direct instead, and probably won't take any roles once his contractual obligations are up. I think giving him a good send off when he's done would be a nice way to end his role in the Marvel films.

[Shaibana]

i am ok with this movie.
i dont know what it is, but maybe Captain America in 2014, instead of 1945 doesnt apeal to me that much.


i poked my boyfriend a little to hard in enthousiasm to point out Abed

the Hydra reveal (with the computer doktor) was the stupidest cliche scene ever.
why do bad guys always explain everything and the good guys listen patiently like they have nothing else to do :l

now i sound like a hater, wich i am not >:O

[Ayen]

Honestly believe it was the best of the Marvel movies so far after seeing it last night. Maybe that will change with time and a repeat viewing, but I don't think so. That was one hell of a tightly made movie on all fronts.

As far as the Hydra reveal, I must admit that I didn't see that coming, though had I realized that the strike team leader was Crossbones I might have figured it out sooner given his association with the Red Skull and his daughter in the comics. But I definitely liked it and felt they were updated in a way that definitely makes sense in the modern world. I'm actually looking forward to seeing more of them in later movies now. I feel that well still has a good deal to offer.

And relating to the Winter Soldier and the faked death of Nick Fury, firstly, I wasn't bothered by Nick Fury faking his death. Largely because he does it often in the comics and it's just him through and through. He's a man who always has a plan and is frequently either one step ahead of his enemies in knowing what their schemes are, or in putting himself in a position to stop them, so it fits. I don't want to see them ever do it again in the movies though because it will lose it's impact if they just have him fake his death every few films.

But the second thing I want to say on the subject of characters dying is that knowing what I know of the Winter Soldier from the comics, it won't surprise me one bit if we actually see Cap die, either in the next Captain America movie, or the third Avengers, and have Bucky take up his mantle as he did in the comics. I think it would be cool for them to go there, and explore the possibility of actually killing a major character in the films, and not bring him back to life later on. I especially think it's likely given Chris Evan's stating recently that he'd like to leave acting and direct instead, and probably won't take any roles once his contractual obligations are up. I think giving him a good send off when he's done would be a nice way to end his role in the Marvel films.

See? My lack of comic book knowledge betrays me. As a general movie goer it felt like backpedaling when he was revealed to be alive. Or maybe it's just me. Another thing, though: Was that supposed to be Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch at the end? How the hell are they going to do mutants without acquiring the rights to X-Men? Somehow I doubt Fox is going to agree to a deal as much as I would like to see the universes connect.


i am ok with this movie.
i dont know what it is, but maybe Captain America in 2014, instead of 1945 doesnt apeal to me that much.


i poked my boyfriend a little to hard in enthousiasm to point out Abed

the Hydra reveal (with the computer doktor) was the stupidest cliche scene ever.
why do bad guys always explain everything and the good guys listen patiently like they have nothing else to do :l

now i sound like a hater, wich i am not >:O

As cliche as it was for once the villain had a good reason to believe they were powerless to really do anything to stop it and the good guys needed the info.

[Scotty_ffgamer]

I had been hearing that Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch were possibly going to be appearing in these movies soon, and I'm pretty sure I was reading about people wondering how it would work out since I'm pretty sure they are supposed to appear in a future X-Men movie as well. I don't know since I don't follow this stuff closely.

As for I knew he wasn't going to actually die considering he is contracted for at least Avengers 2. I can't remember how many other movies he was contracted for. I would have preferred him to die. Heck, I would have preferred Bucky to still be dead and The Winter Soldier to just be this new menacing threat simply because I liked him as a villain... but this is a comic book movie. Comic book characters tend to not stay dead.

[Slothy]

Was that supposed to be Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch at the end? How the hell are they going to do mutants without acquiring the rights to X-Men? Somehow I doubt Fox is going to agree to a deal as much as I would like to see the universes connect.

Yes they were. They'll be in the second Avengers movie and the reason they can use them is because they're affiliated with both mutants and the X-Men, as well as being members of the Avengers. Quicksilver is also in the new X-Men movie, though that version looks stupid as hell. But Avengers won't be able to make any reference to Magneto, mutants, or anything else related to that which is why it looks like they're hinting that Hydra gave them their powers.

And the thing with Nick Fury coming back from the dead a lot is that in the comics he uses Life Model Decoys a lot. Basically copies of himself that he controls. At least the Captain America way of bringing him back wasn't that ridiculous.

[Ayen]

True. I think I remember that vaguely in the old Spider-Man cartoon.

And the inability to reference Magneto and all of them tick me off. God how I wish Marvel Studios had the rights to Spider-Man and the X-Men.

[Shaibana]

should we call this the spoiler tab thread?

[Slothy]

True. I think I remember that vaguely in the old Spider-Man cartoon.

And the inability to reference Magneto and all of them tick me off. God how I wish Marvel Studios had the rights to Spider-Man and the X-Men.

Would be nice. If only because I think Marvel could do them better (quality of the last two X-Men related movies aside).

[Ayen]

Last I heard they acquired the rights to Daredevil, Ghost Rider and Blade, didn't they? At least, I know they got Daredevil.

[Shaibana]

Last I heard they acquired the rights to Daredevil, Ghost Rider and Blade, didn't they? At least, I know they got Daredevil.

too bad those characters have been ruined for the not-comic-reading audiance..
Blade is oke though

[Mercen-X]

I still don't understand people's problem with Daredevil. And as much as I actively dislike Ben Affleck (I tend to relate him to Kevin Federlein), I don't see how people think HE ruined the movie. If anything, I found his acting throughout the film to be the best of the bunch, followed closely by MCD. Jennifer Garner and Colin Farrel were the scrub actors here in my opinion. There were definitely parts that were ridiculous like the fight in the playground.

[blackmage_nuke]

I thought it was good but I preferred the first one.

Some of the action scenes shots were cut too short for my liking and some of the quick camera cuts struck me as just plain lazy but to be fair I watched this while I was still on a high from "The Raid 2" which had amazingly long and complicated action shots.

What I really like is how it's all tying in with Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D

[Skyblade]

True. I think I remember that vaguely in the old Spider-Man cartoon.

And the inability to reference Magneto and all of them tick me off. God how I wish Marvel Studios had the rights to Spider-Man and the X-Men.

They can't reference "Magneto", but you can bet that they'll reference either Erik Lehnsherr or Max Eisenhardt.

That said, I don't think even that will be a problem. I don't think there's going to be much trouble with crossing the two. First, I think Marvel would want to get their hands back into the X-Men universe, and this would be a great way to bring that story back into the fold, and they'd probably be willing to even shell out a bit to get the rights to use the name in a film.

Then too, none of the usual "stealing of rights" problems exist, and I think there's a good chance most of the studio execs might see this. Tying the two together (especially in such a small way) would, at worst, be laughed at as a quick nod, but would potentially bring in a lot of cross-advertising. Granted, studio execs can frequently make boneheaded decisions, but I think there is potential that this rights deal for this could be agreed upon.

[Depression Moon]

What I don't get is how Quicksilver and Scarlet can get around being in Marvel studios because they are both important characters in the Avengers comics, but they can't get Spider-man or Wolverine in any while they're Avengers as well.

[Skyblade]

Because the rights to those individual characters have been signed away.

[McLovin']

Nobodys acknowledging how freakin badass Sam Jackson was in that car chase. That was awesome.

[Ayen]

Nobodys acknowledging how freakin badass Sam Jackson was in that car chase. That was awesome.

It was indeed awesome and I am ashamed I forgot about it.

"What isn't broken?"
"Air conditioning is fully functional."

[Shaibana]

the car chase was cool yes :3

[Skyblade]

Poor Iron Man spent the entire climactic battle at a party for the bad guy's six year old. "Mingling".

And everyone seems to have forgotten Hawkeye completely.

[Shaibana]

Poor Iron Man spent the entire climactic battle at a party for the bad guy's six year old. "Mingling".

And everyone seems to have forgotten Hawkeye completely.

u wanna tell us that hawkeye was in the movie?
i have not noticed

[The Man]

No, I'm pretty sure Skyblade means that everyone completely forgot to mention Hawkeye, even in-universe.

Movie ruled btw. Strong contender for best MCU film to date, and yes, that includes The Avengers and Iron Man. If it's not the unequivocal best those are definitely the top three.

[blackmage_nuke]

Maybe the entire Marvel Cinematic Universe is really just Abed in the Dreamatorium

[Ayen]

And everyone seems to have forgotten Hawkeye completely.

He was vacationing in Malibu.

[Depression Moon]

Cap, Widow, and Falc had some great chemistry on screen. I too was also wondering where Hawkeye was in all of this.

[LunarWeaver]

52889

I was pleasantly surprised by how much the likes of Black Widow and Nick Fury were in this. They fit the tone well. I loved this movie and the first for feeling different than other superhero movies. It was like Jason Bourne if he had Buffy powers to help him every now and then. I was also waiting for a Hawkeye mention though. All he got was Black Widow wearing a referential necklace. Jewelry, hoo boy! Maybe he was busy with something in The Avengers 2.

[Skyblade]

52889

I was pleasantly surprised by how much the likes of Black Widow and Nick Fury were in this. They fit the tone well. I loved this movie and the first for feeling different than other superhero movies. It was like Jason Bourne if he had Buffy powers to help him every now and then. I was also waiting for a Hawkeye mention though. All he got was Black Widow wearing a referential necklace. Jewelry, hoo boy! Maybe he was busy with something in The Avengers 2.

Cloak, Dagger, Power Pack. Man, I would love to see a movie with these guys. But it isn't going to happen. Even though Cloak and Dagger would fit perfectly with the tone of most of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, they would probably fit better with the X-Men than with the Avengers. Power Pack would, unfortunately, require having four reliable child actors, and is simply never going to happen. Which sucks, because the Snarks are one of the most awesome villainous empires in comic books.

[Ayen]

I thought I read somewhere that Marvel acquired the rights to the Fantastic Four. Seeing them with 20th Century Fox still saddens me.

[Depression Moon]

52889

The hell there are Namor and Man-Thing rights? I have a feeling those won't ever get a movie especially man-thing. Didn't know there were rights to Power Pack I'd love to see a movie with them too, but that also looks unlikely.

[Del Murder]

This sequel was great and a lot better than the original. Definitely the best Marvel sequel, but I still think the original Iron Man, Thor, and Avengers were better.

The action scenes were excellent, particularly the use of Cap's shield. It really came across as an extension of his body which is what I would expect from the greatest soldier to ever live.

Some of the villains and plot twists were a little campy and predictable, but The Winter Soldier as a villain was pretty cool and I hope he shows up later.

The Hydra/SHIELD connection was one thing I didn't see coming but afterwards it made sense and was actually pretty topical for today's world.

[Ayen]

Why would they acquire the rights for something that isn't possible to make? If they have them then clearly they intend to do something with them.

[Skyblade]

The Hydra/SHIELD connection was one thing I didn't see coming but afterwards it made sense and was actually pretty topical for today's world.

All of which was intentional. The writers even admitted the plot was influenced by things like NSA data mining and the government "kill list" (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/act-four/wp/2014/04/10/what-captain-america-the-winter-soldier-gets-very-wrong/).

[Shaibana]

http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/arprGLV_460s.jpg

[Ayen]

http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/arprGLV_460s.jpg

That is too cute.

[Mercen-X]

Why would they acquire the rights for something that isn't possible to make? If they have them then clearly they intend to do something with them.

Studios have long held the rights to a slew of potential stories they never did a damned thing with. They only want to make sure that nobody else beats them to it. They're regular schlong-suckers that way.

[The Man]

To be fair, Marvel owns the rights to a lot of these characters simply by virtue of having created them. So there's that.

[Ayen]

To be fair, Marvel the rights to owns a lot of these characters simply by virtue of having created them. So there's that.

Oh yeah. DERP!

[Skyblade]

The hell there are Namor and Man-Thing rights? I have a feeling those won't ever get a movie especially man-thing. Didn't know there were rights to Power Pack I'd love to see a movie with them too, but that also looks unlikely.

Power Pack would, unfortunately, require having 4 reliable child actors, which is no easy task. Especially Katie, as she's at the age where it can be really difficult to find a kid who can act.

Which sucks, because without Power Pack, we lose out on the Snarks, who are still probably my favorite villainous empire in comic books.

[Mercen-X]

Of course, each of those kids can be cast a few years older without really effecting disbelief. First of all, I've never seen a comic anywhere that casts its characters as a specific age. The Power Pack is "young", Daredevil is "middle-aged", the Runaways are "teenaged" (which is at least more specific that the former two). Then there is the fact that many people are typically cast as characters who are 5-10 years older or younger than they really are.

[Depression Moon]

The thing is though that studios would want them to play the role for proabably two more movies and aging on children is more apparent than an adult.

[Mercen-X]

They shouldn't waste any time then. The thing about a string of movies is that the story is meant to pick up where it left off, not right back where it began. Disbelief would shatter instantly if the characters didn't age at all (unless the characters were the Ageless). The movieverse is not the comicsverse.

[Skyblade]

Of course, each of those kids can be cast a few years older without really effecting disbelief. First of all, I've never seen a comic anywhere that casts its characters as a specific age. The Power Pack is "young", Daredevil is "middle-aged", the Runaways are "teenaged" (which is at least more specific that the former two). Then there is the fact that many people are typically cast as characters who are 5-10 years older or younger than they really are.

Actually, the Power Pack were given specific ages, and did age throughout the progression of the comics (though that is a rarity in comics). Katie started at Age 5, Jack was 7, Julie was 10, and Alex was 12. Also, their childhood years were overall better than their teen years. Part of the point of the stories was also that they were a group of children, and it was handled a lot better than most child stories were, especially in comics.