Dungeon Design

[Wolf Kanno]

Of all the RPGs we've all played what game or series do you feel has the best dungeon designs and why? Do you prefer atmosphere? Puzzles? challenge? or do you wish we drop this old school institution?

[black orb]

>>> Dungeon design is one of the most important parts of an RPG atleast for me, if the game has a noob/poor dungeon design I just leave the game and play something else.
Im not a fan of puzzles, Im all about atmosphere and challenge.
I think Dark Souls has the best dungeons. All the other RPGs I have played just pale in comparison..:luca:

[NeoCracker]

It can depend on the game.

Games like the first two Lufia titles and the Golden Sun games the puzzle design is very important, as that is the focal point.

Games like Dark Souls that don't really make use of puzzles Atmosphere is paramount, and it is wonderful for it.

Really though I find this to be a hard as fuck question to answer, as it is so much easier to point out why dungeon design is shitty, such as Xenogears or FF XIII, then to explain what makes it good.

It's kind of like how no one notices when editing in video is good, yet bad editing is glaringly obvious.

[Depression Moon]

More RPGs should have puzzles or platforming in their dungeon designs. I know FF doesn't. There should be something to break up the running from point a to point b and collecting a treasure along the way.

[VeloZer0]

Imo dungeon design and the combat system are inexorably linked. If the battles are good and actually challenging and enjoyable it takes a lot of effort off the dungeon design and you can just focus on making dungeons that are interesting. If you have boring filler combat then you have to add a whole bunch of gimmicks to make the dungeon seem more interesting.

That and camera position. IMO having the third person camera has made it very difficult to make dungeons seem as interesting.

[Formalhaut]

Imo dungeon design and the combat system are inexorably linked. If the battles are good and actually challenging and enjoyable it takes a lot of effort off the dungeon design and you can just focus on making dungeons that are interesting. If you have boring filler combat then you have to add a whole bunch of gimmicks to make the dungeon seem more interesting.

That and camera position. IMO having the third person camera has made it very difficult to make dungeons seem as interesting.

I agree. This is where I think FFXIII should have took notes. Rather than make it all one big long corridor, why not add something new and interesting? Throw in a puzzle, or a mini-game, anything. The Dreadnought thing in the Vile Peaks in Chapter Four was one of the best things about the game to be honest.

[VeloZer0]

One thing that I did like a lot about FF13, though, is the fact that the simple dungeon design allowed me to take my eyes off the minimap. In third person games with a rotatable camera I spend way more time looking at the minimap than the actual game graphics that took all the resources to create. In the older games with a fixed camera I never got distracted from appreciating the scenery.

[Depression Moon]

I didn't even know that the 3D Final Fantasy's had mini maps.

[Bolivar]

I like plenty of games that put less of an emphasis on it, but I feel dungeon design is absolutely essential in capturing the spirit of what it means to be an RPG. As I've grown older, I still enjoy story and aesthetics but dungeon design and mechanics play a larger role in how I estimate a title.

It's part of why I enjoy the Dragon Quest games so much. They have such a delightfully novel intertwining of traps, puzzles, and layout that make the games more meaty than their peers. Final Fantasy V and VI are perhaps the only two games in the series that I would say had really great dungeon design, especially the latter.

[Laddy]

Dragon Quest's dungeons are pretty rad. I also thought FFXII had very underrated dungeons personally. Baldur's Gate II has some damn great dungeons as well.

Might & Magic VI, however, has probably the best dungeons in any game. They're aren't especially visually arresting, but the sheer magnitude and diversity in size, type, shape, and concept made them splendid. Tomb of VARN is so massive, so incredible, and my pick for best dungeon in any game.

[Pike]

World of Warcraft.

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Everything is so beautiful :whimper:

[Quindiana Jones]

The Elder Scrolls series has some of the best of most of the worst dungeon designs I've ever experienced.

[NeoCracker]

The Elder Scrolls series has some of the best of most of the worst dungeon designs I've ever experienced.

Story time!

Me and my buddy are bullshitting as he's playing through Skyrim. He's going through this ruin and somehow some guy beats him to the end of it, even though it makes no sense it happened (You know, that thing that most RPG's do at some point or another. :p).

Anyway I joked he just used the Ladder outside the Bethesda Exit (Don't know if this is teh common term, but it's the conviniently placed exit that leads right to the front or right outside that you could reasonable get to in real life with little to no difficulty).

He then left the dungeon in the Bethesda exit, and then hopped off the ledge leading outside. And burried in the snow was a visible ladder that was easily big enough to reach the entrance.

It's like the game was trolling you.

[metagloria]

The dungeons in Skyrim are unbelievable. Very possibly the coolest I've ever played.

[Quindiana Jones]

It's a pity they cheaped out on a lot of the Dwemer ruins, but AYE.

[Bolivar]

I thought the Dwemer ruins were faithfully implemented as big, open, cavernous halls like in Morrowind.