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Wolf Kanno
04-22-2014, 06:14 AM
Okay, so we all have strong feelings about the Orphanage Twist but am I the only one who is more pissed off because they didn't run with it better? I mean I really like the concept of Junctioning costing you memories and I felt it was a much better story angle than time traveling witches. Sure, what we got of it could have been handled better but it was still a novel idea.

NeoCracker
04-22-2014, 08:00 AM
As an Idea I think it was brilliant.

But yeah, it really didn't change anything about the plot. Like, at all. If that scene was just taken out, really the game loses nothing. (Well, it would lose some if it's unnescessary bloat, but that's beside the point.)

Then again that's FF VIII in a nutshell. A lot of great Ideas, a lot of not following up.

Jiro
04-22-2014, 09:42 AM
I would've liked to see other memories disappear to make it more than just convenience.

Forsaken Lover
04-22-2014, 09:55 AM
It lets you know FFVIII is the most contrived game ever. That's why it exists.

Squall and Seifer sent off to homes? Rejected because they're both emotionally crippled. (naturally this means send them to be child soldiers)
Zell? Ends up in a good stable family but ends up going to the same school as his former orphanage pals.
Selphie? Just happens to transfer to the same school as her orphanage pals.
And then they just stumble upon Irvine.

It serves a vital function in that it lets you know everything in the game happens for a reason - namely plot convenience. Like the Rangarok out of nowhere.

I still want to know if Seifer forgot like the rest of them. I say he did and "Edea" just stirred up his memories like with what happened to the heroes. But some people I've talked to say he always remembered due to not using GFs that long, same as how Irvine recalled.

Oh! Speaking of Irvine, you gotta love "he couldn't shoot her because she was like his mom!" Only...I don't recall that ever being said in the game. All Irvine says is that this "ALWAYS" happens to him. So it wasn't just because it was his Matron, he was just plain old incompetent.

The Orphanage thing just doesn't jive with any other story element in the game.

maybee
04-22-2014, 12:18 PM
I would've liked to see other memories disappear to make it more than just convenience.


Yeah same here. Plus it would of given the game a more creepy feeling, or like everytime you use a GF you see that character that summons the GF, have a childhood memory get removed.


If you summon a GF with a certain character too much, the character gets mentally-broken and can't be used, until a rare item is found or something.

Mirage
04-22-2014, 03:26 PM
I think that would be too direct and obvious. I'd rather see some special scenes happening/not happening throughout the game, based on GF usage. Nothing game-breaking, but worth trying a no/little-GF run just to see

Pumpkin
04-22-2014, 03:38 PM
I agree. The orphanage they all grew up in together thing is my least favorite part of the game, but the GF memory loss was excellent. I do wish they had focused on it more and also included the GF's in it (since we've seen they can talk and have personalities) and focus on it being like a co-dependent relationship or something along those lines.

Shorty
04-22-2014, 05:20 PM
An interesting idea that could have been handled much better. It didn't break the game for me, and I just accepted it when it happened, but later in reflecting on the game, I found it disappointing.

Pumpkin
04-22-2014, 05:47 PM
What was amusing to me was the whole "Oh no, GF's are taking our memory, that's dangerous!"

...
...
...
...
...

*keeps using GF's*

Wolf Kanno
04-22-2014, 06:33 PM
What was amusing to me was the whole "Oh no, GF's are taking our memory, that's dangerous!"

...
...
...
...
...

*keeps using GF's*

Yeah, I feel this bothers me the most about the whole thing. It's treated as a big deal for five minute and then ignored for the rest of the game. It just made it feel like a tacked on plot element to make the twist happen as opposed to something that actually brought some real merit to the story.

Forsaken Lover
04-23-2014, 04:22 AM
FFVIII is all about "so this happened. Moving on." The "GFs are taking my memories so I'll continue using GFs" is just a continuation of the "what are up with these dreams we're having:" "no way we can figure this out so let's just keep going."

I think the writers wanted us to be more like the cast and just not think about things. "Just go along with it" is the motto of the plot.

Wolf Kanno
04-23-2014, 04:31 AM
I think the writers wanted us to be more like the cast and just not think about things. "Just go along with it" is the motto of the plot.

I feel this is Kazuhige Nojima's whole writing philosophy cause every game he's been the sole writer for has this feeling to it's plot. 53198

Ayen
04-23-2014, 04:33 AM
I thought it was a good twist and not something I would have seen coming. The only foreshadowing you get about GF's messing with memories is if you mess around at your desk in the 2F classroom.

Then like the game I forgot about it not long after being mentioned so I echo the sentiment.

Jiro
04-23-2014, 06:58 AM
Squall gives a nice sentimental speech at one point about how they have to fight using this power even though it might make them forget their families and friends, which I think is quite powerful, or would be if it had any real threat. The only thing they forget is that they were all at an Orphanage together, and then they remember that, which means either:

1) their memories aren't permanently lost
2) they forgot because they were kids and it was a long time ago and stressful
3) there is no 3

So it's like "why do we care?"

Forsaken Lover
04-26-2014, 02:26 AM
Ya know, one thing not often brought up that always bugged me about this whole scene was Rinoa's abrupt "I don't want to fight anymore." It's then never mentioned again. Her sudden desire to be a pacifist contributes nothing to her character or the story and I just don't even know why it's there.

NeoCracker
04-26-2014, 03:34 AM
To add to Irvine, even if you go with the Idea he couldn't shoot Edea because she was basically thier mother (Not exactly, but close enough), what re-assured him was that even if he failed Squall and the others were going to kill her anyway.

...So basically he's a slimy douche bag if you accept that reasoning.

"Wait, so the blood will be on your hands, and not mine? Well theres a weight off my shoulders!" :monster:

Forsaken Lover
04-26-2014, 05:04 AM
Irvine has no time for your "morality." He's got women to hit on.

Steve
04-26-2014, 11:50 PM
The story of VIII is flawed in several ways. One of them is the GF usage. There's actually more information about the fact that GF usage is known to cause memory issues in the world but that SeeD chooses to continue using them for their troops. (this also indicates a lot more summons exist). Essentially GF magic is supposedly far more powerful than the para-magic used by other military forces.

The potential extrapolations are astronomical including the idea that for the GF to grow in power it needs to spread over your brain and that if you continue to use GF forces past the age of 21 that the damage may become irreversible. This also feeds in to the whole SeeD are in service until they turn 21. Once past 21 they are retired and forced to leave. The bigger benefit of this is it could be used to argue the fact that ceasing the use of GF by the age of 21 may result in no permanent memory loss. Though that is I suppose partially dependant on the idea that using a GF for a limited time span does not provide it enough time to develop fully and take over your memory core.

What would be the dangers then of continuing past the age of 21 aside from forgetting your past? How bad could it get? The rest of the world's armies deemed it so dangerous that they physically stopped using GF a fair time ago. Could it in theory get so bad that soldiers using GF could potentially forget how to breathe, thus being killed by the strain of it? Could it result in them being turned in too? What are these dangers, we never really know which is a shame. I'd be curious to know more. Maybe they should have put some optional side explanations in when talking to Doc Odine, though his personal field of speciality is Sorceresses. I'd assume GF are intrinsically linked to the Sorceresses too in some way, or the great Hyne.

I'm not sure they should all have just suddenly gone "Oh yeah I remember" when Irvine spoke up. It would have been more powerful if Irvine alone had remembered and forced the others to do a side quest which found them discovering irrefutable evidence such as old pictures (we know photos were possible 17 years previously as Laguna starred in a film). it could have also helped use the Cetra continent for more and not just made the orphanage a "Yes, now Edea is no longer under Ultimecia's control, I and my estranged wife of the last 10 - 12 years will proceed to live in these ruins which haven't been tended at all and in fact appear to have been completely destroyed by some catastrophe. (bear in mind Cetra was shattered by a Lunar Cry way over 17 years prior),

maybee
04-27-2014, 05:17 PM
To add to Irvine, even if you go with the Idea he couldn't shoot Edea because she was basically thier mother (Not exactly, but close enough), what re-assured him was that even if he failed Squall and the others were going to kill her anyway.

...So basically he's a slimy douche bag if you accept that reasoning.

"Wait, so the blood will be on your hands, and not mine? Well theres a weight off my shoulders!" :monster:

I think Irvine knew that Edea had to be shot because she was a dangerous woman, and had the main government in her hands, and she was very deadly, and she already murdered the president in cold blood. We witness Edea's power later, as she sends missiles to students, to wipe out in two big massacres.

Irvine knew that Edea, had to go, he just couldn't do it, because of the past, and he felt like a coward because of it.

Irvine was completely broken, and he later tries to help Squall take out Edea with Rinoa. Irvine knew, and he knows, he just wasn't brave enough, because he didn't want to murder her, despite what she was becoming.

Douche, Irvine is not.

Slothy
04-27-2014, 06:46 PM
Okay, so we all have strong feelings about the Orphanage Twist but am I the only one who is more pissed off because they didn't run with it better? I mean I really like the concept of Junctioning costing you memories and I felt it was a much better story angle than time traveling witches. Sure, what we got of it could have been handled better but it was still a novel idea.

It is a novel idea. Had the game been based around it, it would have presented a nice opportunity to fuck with the players head through a healthy dose of unreliable narrator. Things you experience not being everything that actually happened for example and finding out that the characters did things you never saw because you aren't supposed to remember it.

But like most little twists in FFVIII, it's nothing more than a Deus Ex Machina and tossed aside minutes later, having had no lasting impact on anything.