"I'm not hero. Never was. I'm just an old killer hired to do some wetwork"

[Wolf Kanno]

Had to paraphrase that quote but oh well. Well anyway, according to the official Metal Gear Solid timeline (http://www.konami-asia.com/mgs_tlc/en/), we are currently in the year when MGS4: Guns of the Patriots takes place and should be dealing with the SOP system, large PMC companies, and worrying about FOXDIE going out of control.

So this thread is basically an official Metal Gear Solid thread, talk about your favorite games, what you hope to see in MGSV: Phantom Pain and who your favorite and least favorite characters are.

[Skyblade]

It should be "I'm not a hero". Kind of important, because otherwise, I read it as "I'm not here", and it took me a second to understand what it actually said.

[Wolf Kanno]

Actually it should be I'm no hero, guess my fat fingers hit the T by mistake. Anyway stay on topic. :colbert:

[Forsaken Lover]

eKl6WjfDqYA

All the bad guys in MGS love to rant on and on but none beat The Patriots for ranting stuff that is both eerie and yet also eerily accurate.

I can listen to this codec call all day.

[Ayen]

I don't think I've played a Metal Gear game I didn't love. I played Metal Gear, Metal Gear Solid Snake, MGS 1 - 3, V.R Missions and Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes and enjoyed all of them. Still haven't played MGS 4 yet, but I plan to. My favorite among them is the original Metal Gear Solid for the PlayStation.

My favorite characters are Snake, The Colonel, Liquid, Revolver Ocelot, Big Boss, Gray Fox, Meryl and Sniper Wolf in no particular order. Didn't care about the villains in MGS 2 all that much, but I like Raiden okay and can't stand how they made him a Gray Fox clone to appeal to the West more :roll2

[Pete for President]

Played through MGS1 again not long ago and there's so much love put in this game. It amazes me every time I play it.

[Jiro]

Hideo Kojima is utterly insane but him and the people that have worked with him have created such excellent games with such poignant reflections on society. Okay, so we're not fighting proxy wars in the same way as MGS4 predicted but wars of greed have definitely happened.

[Wolf Kanno]

He does have a knack for understanding the times. Though I feel MGS2 is probably more poignant now than it was back in 2001.

[Pete for President]

Hideo Kojima is utterly insane but him and the people that have worked with him have created such excellent games with such poignant reflections on society. Okay, so we're not fighting proxy wars in the same way as MGS4 predicted but wars of greed have definitely happened.

Agreed. Every MGS conspiracy relates to the real world and is likely true in one form or another. Cloning and genetic modification abuse in 1, information and media/internet control in 2, the war economy in 4. These things happened and/or are happening in the real world.

Also patriots = federal reserve.

[Del Murder]

The boss battles and the storyline twists have always been my favorite part of the MGS franchise. Some of my favorite battles have been: Sniper Wolf, Psycho Mantis, Vamp, The End, The Boss, Raging Raven, and Metal Gear REX vs. Metal Gear RAY.

I actually don't care that much about sneaking and stealth. I just usually tranq everything.

[Ayen]

I enjoy the second Vulcan Raven boss fight and putting down claymore mines and just watching him kill himself. It's hilarious.

[krissy]

SNAKES DON'T BELONG IN ALASKA

[Forsaken Lover]

Anybody here ever read any Michael Crichton? (Jurassic Park, Sphere, Congo, Andromeda Strain, etc.) I love his work and it feels to me like in many ways he andKojima have a very similar writing style. Namely they both find a topic that interests them and they write a plot around that concept. Kojima is a bit worse about this than Crichton was but the mention of Raven reminded me of this because you can always tell Kojima does A LOT of research and by God you're going to know how much research he did. The stuff about Mongolians and Japanese, the ear pull, none of that stuff had anything to do with anything. A lot of characters say stuff that is more or less insignificant but is a handy piece of trivia that you get the feeling Kojima found out along the way.

Both Crichton and Kojima are fans of the character filibuster too.

I think one of my favorite pieces of random, pointless trivia was:
Raiden: What are those sticks in your head?

Emma: These? They're lacquered chopsticks. They hold your hair in place. Did you know they're pretty popular in Europe and South America?

WHAT ARE THOSE STICKS IN YOUR HEAD

[Bolivar]

^ I bet Kojima would be awesome to bring to quizzo!

I like all the Metal Gear games and can't wait for Phantom Pain. I hope it's coming sooner rather than later like Q4 2014 or Q1 2015. Although the last few MGS games have made it a point to come out in June so I could realistically see them trying to hit that next year.

I hope they don't skimp out on multiplayer given how fun co-op in Peace Walker was and how memorable MGO in MGS4 was.

[Wolf Kanno]

I'm still hoping we'll get to see Grey Fox in the Phantom Pain. It has been odd that he's only appeared in the black sheep entry of the Big Boss story arc despite MG-MGS giving the impression that these two were attached by the hip.

Yeah, Kojima is really bad about inserting useless trivia into his writing, I was just going through the Metal Gear Database the other day and realized a good chunk of it could probably be removed considering how inconsequential it was to the various stories.

So how would people rank the entries against each other? Which is your fave and which could you live without?

[Bolivar]

I think this might be it. Original canon has him in in Rhodesia and Mozambique in the 80s with Big Boss and I believe some of the game will take place in Africa.

3 - Favorite
1
4
2
PW - Still a special game to me if I really had to let one go, this would be it.

[Scotty_ffgamer]

From favorite to least favorite, I'd rank the games:
1
3
2
PW
4
MG2: Solid Snake
Ground Zeroes
MG1

I love all of the games, and ranking them is pretty arbitrary for me since they are so close together in my mind. MGS1 was the first I played, and it holds a lot of nostalgic value for that. Recognizing this is with a nostalgic lens, it is pretty close to the perfect game in my mind.

The last three were kind of hard to think about placement. MG1 I just don't remember all that well. MG2 has also not been played in a few years, but I really enjoyed that game. Ground Zeroes just sort of loses points for not being a complete game story-wise. The gameplay is solid and possibly my favorite in the series. My opinion will probably change of that once The Phantom Pain comes out in which I'll probably just consider them one game.

As for which I could live without, it would be the first Metal Gear. It's an important game for the series for obvious reasons, but it's the least fun for me to return to now despite still liking it quite a bit. If we're only counting the Solid series (and withholding judgment on Ground Zeroes for now), I'd say Peace Walker. While I enjoy returning to that one more than MGS4 now, MGS4 is just more important to me story-wise.

[Del Murder]

I think this might be it. Original canon has him in in Rhodesia and Mozambique in the 80s with Big Boss and I believe some of the game will take place in Africa.

3 - Favorite
1
4
2
PW - Still a special game to me if I really had to let one go, this would be it.
Same order for me though I haven't played PW. Snake Eater was the best game and I'm sad that the hunting/eating mechanic hasn't been introduced into other games.

[Bolivar]

You should try it, Del, I think you might be pleasantly surprised!

[Ayen]

Metal Gear Solid
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Metal Gear Solid The Twin Snakes
Metal Gear
Metal Gear 2 Solid Snake

I've yet to play 4 and can't play any of the PSP ones. I could live without the original games.

[Bolivar]

Last bit of evangelizing: Peace Walker is also available in HD for PS3 and 360 as part of the MGS Collection that includes Sons of Liberty and Snake Eater Subsistence remastered. That version of PW has online Co op which I'm always down for if anyone ever needs a partner in stealth.

[Wolf Kanno]

Rankings:
8. Metal Gear - Not a bad game, but it's designed isn't strong enough to deal with the horrors of time. More puzzle game than anything.

7. Metal Gear Solid: Portable OPS - Decent non-Kojima game, came up with some great ideas for gameplay but the story makes a few wrong turns by trying too hard to suck up to nostalgia and it's retcons diminish some of the characters. Young Campbell was pretty fun though and I enjoyed using teams of recruits and the tactical dilemma of trying to get a knocked out soldier back to the truck for recruitment.

6. Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots - Third person shooter control break the delicate balance of the gameplay, most new gameplay features feel trivial instead of like actual advancements. Plot is a mess, but after the mindscrew that was MGS2 was better than expected. Still fun to play through and has some really good interactive moments in the game.

5. Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker - Re-uses a lot of gameplay ideas and themes from Portable OPS so it doesn't feel quite as "original" as I would like. Very repetitive boss fights. Still has strong story moments and gameplay is largely an improvement over MPO.

4. Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty - Great use of a new physics engine and better controls for the game make this really fun to play. It's plot feels unnecessarily convoluted and I feel it's themes and characters get lost in a plot that feels like Kojima was reading Jesse Ventura conspiracy novels or watching the History Channel.

3. Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake - Surprisingly good game with some very clever puzzles and boss fights. It's plot has moments of brillance followed by elements that feel like they came from the script of some cheesy 80s Saturday morning cartoon show. Still, I was a bit shocked how much MGS1 borrowed from this game.

2. Metal Gear Solid - Still has the best story and cast in the series. Time has had a mixed impact on this game with it's music, story, and even some of its visuals still feel very powerful but gameplay has definitely not aged well, especially when going from more recent entries back to this one. This game still has a special place in my heart though.

1. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater - Has one of the most powerful stories and themes in the series and excellent gameplay and direction. Easily holds most of my favorite boss fights in the series and has the best support crew interaction in the series. Granted the game sometimes is a bit too tongue and cheek and it's humor sometimes run's counter to the dark undertone of the plot and character dramas, but I still feel that collectively this is the best MGS in every category.

[Forsaken Lover]

Buncha conformists. Gotta pop in here and tell you all the real deal about this here Metal Gear.

See there was this game. Called Metal Gear Solid 2. Was pretty brilliant. Too brilliant, as President Shinra might say. As such people whined and complained that their video game was making them think.

So Kojima said "here, this game doesn't make you think." Thus Metal Gear Solid 3 was born. A half-assed James Bond-inspired mess starring Solid Snake's clone Naked Snake. He's Solid Snake but with a beard so he's different! And then you got Evil Russian Badguyovsky and Bond Girl McSluttiness. And a dude covered in bees. Yes, BRILLIANT boss design there. Oh an The Fury is just Vulcan Raven but substitute vulcan cannon for flamethrower.

*nods and puffs on pipe* Metal Gear Solid and Metal Gear Solid 2 were great games of vision and brilliance. I would say MGS1 is the sum total of what we got in 2 and 3 - an intellectual story (2) and a sentimental story (3) but all in a singular package. Hence why MGS1 is the best and always will be the best.

MGS1 > MGS2 >MG2: Solid Snake > MGS3 > MG1

I don't think there were any games besides those ones.

I like MGS3 but damn if it isn't overrated.

FOXHOUND remains the best boss team by a country mile. Favorite support team is a bit harder to decide. I loved Nastasha's info about nukes. Para-Medic though had some cool info about old movies which I also love. And don't care what anyone says, Rose is awesome. So is "Colonel."
C0_O4aPvQ_I

[Wolf Kanno]

You're a fan of the VR theory aren't you?

[Forsaken Lover]

What? No, I never agreed with that. Everything in MGS2 most definitely happened. It kinda cheapens Raiden's character if it was all an illusion.

The fact stuff gets really trippy later on is just meant to be trippy, not representative of it being fake.

I do like that stuff such as the VR Theory exists though because it shows MGS2's greatness. There are so many ways to "read the game" if you will, so many interpretations and ideas.

You don't get that with MGS3, or even MGS1. MGS2 is the game that makes you think the most.

[Bolivar]

See there was this game. Called Metal Gear Solid 2. Was pretty brilliant. Too brilliant, as President Shinra might say.

EPIC Forsaken Lover post right here!!

The one thing that does knock against MGS3 is that, as much as I love the Cobras, they were the beginning of the bosses losing their personality and motivations. The next games had the B&Bs who didn't even talk at all (Drebin's Codec story time was one of the few things that legitimately piss me off about MGS4) and Peace Walker's bosses were literally combat vehicles! Oh and the AI prototypes.

[Pete for President]

What? No, I never agreed with that. Everything in MGS2 most definitely happened. It kinda cheapens Raiden's character if it was all an illusion.

The fact stuff gets really trippy later on is just meant to be trippy, not representative of it being fake.

I do like that stuff such as the VR Theory exists though because it shows MGS2's greatness. There are so many ways to "read the game" if you will, so many interpretations and ideas.

You don't get that with MGS3, or even MGS1. MGS2 is the game that makes you think the most.

I dig MGS2 and the VR psychedelicness too. It is all about digital information control (read: manipulation) after all. It grew on me over the years and the soundtrack ranks among the most memorable of the series.

However the way we progress through the oil rig is kinda lame. I've mentioned this in other MGS threads but Kojima's original idea was to have (AI) Rose kidnapped on the platform, albeit the only "evidence" of this would be codec conversation. She would be "moved" constantly and this was eventually supposed to make Raiden doubt whether she was here or even existed at all. Sounds to me like a much more fitting objective rather than freezing a bunch of bombs scattered across the rig.

[Wolf Kanno]

I do like that stuff such as the VR Theory exists though because it shows MGS2's greatness. There are so many ways to "read the game" if you will, so many interpretations and ideas.

You don't get that with MGS3, or even MGS1. MGS2 is the game that makes you think the most.

I don't know, for me it was all just a redo of René Descartes' Cartesian Doubt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methodological_skepticism) which was already blown out of proportion in The Matrix, and was handled better by Ghost in the Shell nearly a decade earlier. It's also less satisfying since trying to utilize this theory by ignoring a theistic model of the universe or accepting a materialistic model of the universe largely leads the whole thing in doubt.

My issue with MGS2 and why I dislike it less than MGS1 and 3 is because it wades in too deep into outrageous conspiracy theory territory. What I always felt was the real beauty of MGS1 was that with the exception of some supernatural powers (Mantis and Raven) and the Cyborg Ninja, everything in MGS1 felt plausible. U.S. government showing a face of wanting to rid the world of nuclear weapons while secretly building the nuclear weapon to end all nuclear weapons? Sounds about right and feels more realistic than saying that the U.S. is controlled by a secret cabal of computer A.I. On a similar note, clandestine mission to infiltrate Cold War era Russia and rescue a scientist traded to end the Cuban Missile Crisis followed by a mission to kill a secret double agent to save face? Sounds pretty plausible and I love how MGS3 plays with historical events from that era.

Rex, Ray, and the Shagahod might all be an impossibility from an engineering standpoint, but Rex at least acts like what you would expect from an early giant robot, it's sluggish, slow, and lumbering. You can tell it would need a full battalion to protect it. Ray on the other hand is jumping, back-flipping, swimming through the ocean like a fish and it can bleed. Shagahod is somewhere in the middle, sure it's premise and design is probably making some rocket scientist bang his head on the wall for oversimplifying rocketry but outside of some impossible speeds and maneuverability it doesn't feel too future tech. It's a far cry from the A.I. Pods from Peace Walker or the Geckos from MGS4. That's the issue here, it's all about the games ability to maintain a sense of disbelief and I just feel that MGS2 crossed the line too many times to be taken seriously, not that MGS3 isn't pushing the boundaries itself but in the aftermath of MGS2, it felt less hokey.

The other issue is that while MGS2 does make you think, it lacks the strong character driven narrative of MGS1 and 3. Raiden is kind of just haphazardly thrown from one moment to the next, and doesn't get any real hard-hitting character development until near the game's end. On the other hand, MGS1 is all about Snake being pulled back from retirement, dealing with his legendary status, why he can't find peace in his life, his frustration with his government and his uneasy relationship with others. From the beginning we're introduced to a broken man who through the mission finally finds for himself a higher purpose for his skills and the story deals with whether he is cursed by his choices or if he is cursed by his genetic relationship with Big Boss. MGS3 is all about watching Big Boss start his decent into darkness. Watching him go from a loyal soldier to someone who will one day wage war against his country and the world. He holds an idealistic view of patriotism and being a soldier in the beginning and by the end, he is a broken man who is questioning everything. MGS explores the concept of history and it's effects on politics and the world. It asks the player to really take a look at the themes of nationalism and patriotism in relation to the times. Besides I've always been partial to villain protagonists and their fall from grace, it's why I am actually looking forward to MGSV cause it's the Big Boss game I've wanted since MGS3.

This is not to say that I felt Raiden was poorly done, he is probably the most interesting character in the story but his relevance to the plot comes too late for me to feel the game is really about him. I will still take it over the characterization suicides that happen to half the cast in MGS4 of which I felt Raiden got hit the hardest cause apparently angsting over PTSD caused by being a child-soldier is lame, but angsting about being turned into a robot and unable to have a family life cause the writers decided to retcon all of his character development in MGS2 is A-Ok as long as he is emulating Gray Fox who is nothing but awesomness. :roll2

Raiden is a good character but his personal story just wasn't as strong as Solid Snake and Big Boss.

[Psychotic]

What a thrill...

[Forsaken Lover]

@Wolf:

I see what you're saying. Raiden's lack of "character" for most of the game was intentional. I'm sure you are aware of the "Raiden Is You" concept of MGS2. The problem is that, with the original MGS, Kojima tried to do the same thing. He took this "legendary badass" Solid Snake that most gamers would "love to be" and made him a depressed, broken shell of a man drinking himself to death in the middle of nowhere. On the surface, Solid Snake is every action hero fantasy. In reality, you should want to be everyone EXCEPT him.

That didn't work. People still wanted to be Snake.

Hence there is Raiden - a nancyboy who gets picked on by his girlfriend, peed on, slips on bird crap, and is all-around a tool and a fool. To cap it all off, you learn about his past, a past arguably even worse than Snake's. This is why I fully believe the Raiden Is You/You Suck belief about Sons of Liberty's story.

Whatever other disagreements we may have about MGS, I'm glad we can be united in our dislike for everything after MGS3. ") I don't worship it like others but I do enjoy Snake Eater. On a purely gameplay level, it is most definitely the superior of Sons of Liberty. Much like Xenogears, MGS2 is not a game I replay for the gameplay.

Also i just want to put this here because I made it and I wish MGS2's OST got more love.

7vV93xfpGFw

[Wolf Kanno]

Snake is sort of a deconstruction of the legendary war hero, whereas I agree that Raiden is a deconstruction of the player. I never really was bothered by Raiden getting picked on in the game except with Rosemary who I felt undermined his character and the game, the rest of the stuff is just the series quirky humor but listening to Rosemary go on and on easily pulled me out of the experience and was just the first of many obvious clues that something about the mission wasn't right.

I don't necessarily hate the post-MGS3 titles, MGS4 does just as many things right as I felt it did wrong and I forgive it more than I should cause I understand that it was trying to get the series out of the corner that MGS2 kind of wrote it into, but I also understand that it was Kojima's intentions to leave MGS2 as it was (http://www.konami.jp/mgs4/uk/interview/03.html). I don't think it was an accident MGS3 was a sequel that barely connected to the events of MGS2. Kojima gave in and gave the fans a sequel but not the one they asked for.

Portable OPs is pretty forgettable and I'm waiting for Kojima to finally say it is non-canon but Peace Walker was actually a pretty decent story by the end even if I felt it simply retreaded on character development Big Boss already received and transformed The Boss into some mythical Saint figure. Hell, while I can't justify buying Ground Zeroes cause it feels like a rip-off I can say that what I've read about the story has me a bit more excited about Phantom Pain.

I'm sadly the opposite of you, I play MGS2 more for the gameplay than the story as I can't really get behind the plot of this one.

To leave this on a positive note, these are hilarious and must be viewed:

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6ah0UQONBYE

koi0ZXOVu4c

[Bolivar]

I don't necessarily hate the post-MGS3 titles, MGS4 does just as many things right as I felt it did wrong and I forgive it more than I should cause I understand that it was trying to get the series out of the corner that MGS2 kind of wrote it into, but I also understand that it was Kojima's intentions to leave MGS2 as it was (http://www.konami.jp/mgs4/uk/interview/03.html).

I always take what he says about ending the series with MGS2 (and MGS3 (and stepping away with MGS4)) with a grain of salt, since he's said elsewhere he always claims it will be the last one so that he and the team will leave nothing on the table, they won't get another chance to make a better sequel. An artists vision is only real when it's fixed (hence why that's only when we give copyright).

Honestly the plot in 4 threw feasibility out the window (on some points) but that was a tribute to MGS2, just like the game emulated MGS 1 and 3 in other ways (and even MG1 and 2). The game was less about satisfying fans with what happened after 2 than it was a celebration everything the series accomplished via showcasing the power of the PS3. It was more of a tribute game than a sequel, hence why it didn't take itself as seriously as some of the more anal fans did. The only legit grief I have with the game is the reduction of the Codec team and the B&Bs back stories being bed time stories via Drebin (bad storytelling).

Every other complaint I've heard about it has been fairly arbitrary.

[Wolf Kanno]

I don't necessarily hate the post-MGS3 titles, MGS4 does just as many things right as I felt it did wrong and I forgive it more than I should cause I understand that it was trying to get the series out of the corner that MGS2 kind of wrote it into, but I also understand that it was Kojima's intentions to leave MGS2 as it was (http://www.konami.jp/mgs4/uk/interview/03.html).

I always take what he says about ending the series with MGS2 (and MGS3 (and stepping away with MGS4)) with a grain of salt, since he's said elsewhere he always claims it will be the last one so that he and the team will leave nothing on the table, they won't get another chance to make a better sequel. An artists vision is only real when it's fixed (hence why that's only when we give copyright).

Considering he has mentioned he got death threats from fans and was heavily pressured by the MGS Design team to make MGS4 (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/129696/kojima-spills-new-juicy-mgs4-info/), I feel you are purposely blinding yourself from the truth to make you not feel bad about contributing to making this guy work only on MGS for the rest of his days. He never intended to make MGS2 (http://www.vg247.com/2012/09/27/metal-gear-25th-anniversary-kojima-answers-big-series-questions/), and he has said that although he enjoyed the 25 years of MGS, he doesn't want to be around for the next 25 years (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/441931/kojima-metal-gear-will-continue-after-i-step-away/). Just because he says it is his last game doesn't mean it was the end of MGS, he has been trying to hand off the series to his team since MGS2 and they, along with fans, keep pushing back on him and so he caves and starts working on the next game. Lots of series have moved past their creators and most have flourished. I feel fans need to stop equating Kojima with MGS as though one can't happen without the other. Will it not be as good without him? Maybe, but we don't really know because no one has seriously tried to do it cause everyone is too scared to let it happen.


Honestly the plot in 4 threw feasibility out the window (on some points) but that was a tribute to MGS2, just like the game emulated MGS 1 and 3 in other ways (and even MG1 and 2). The game was less about satisfying fans with what happened after 2 than it was a celebration everything the series accomplished via showcasing the power of the PS3. It was more of a tribute game than a sequel, hence why it didn't take itself as seriously as some of the more anal fans did. The only legit grief I have with the game is the reduction of the Codec team and the B&Bs back stories being bed time stories via Drebin (bad storytelling).

Every other complaint I've heard about it has been fairly arbitrary.

I don't know man, after painstakingly describing the use of nanotechnology in the first two games as a form of hard science fiction (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MohsScaleOfScienceFictionHardness) and then arbitrarily making them the magic cure-all to hand wave every plot point in MGS4 kind of feels like a cop-out to me. Naomi and Big Boss' deaths also served no purpose other then to get rid of them and add unnecessary drama cause both Snake and Otcaon need to lose a loved one in every MGS game. I never saw a reason to explain Vamp's power and Raiden's entire story arc retcons his rather upbeat ending in MGS2. Also, why is Snake whining around about dying from premature old age in a world where nanomachines can apparently bring you back from the dead? I mean the collapse of the established world design leads to more plot holes than it was trying to resolve. The game's plot was already going to be screwed trying to resolve something Kojima never intended to be resolved but he did such a sloppy job doing it that it was often painful to watch unfold.

The game has some strong moments but it's strung together with such unnecessary bullshit that it's hard to justify swimming through the muck to get to the few jewels in it all. Hell, I wish the game retained it's original ending where Snake and Otacon were executed for war crimes by the U.N. over the ending we got.

[Bolivar]

Well, I think "purposely blinding" myself to exculpate the harm I've caused Kojima might be a little extreme, no? I'm just taking about video games here...

Honestly, I would take your critiques as valid if it weren't for you, again, taking things way too seriously. The art direction and gameplay scenarios were so outstanding and memorable, I'm willing to forgive the plot for wanting to have a little fun and fan service. What's the harm in that?

[Wolf Kanno]

The issue here is not fanservice. I never mentioned anything wrong with the game's gratuitous fanservice cause the series overall is kind of known for that. The problem here is that the plot is just kind of a mess in MGS4, as I stated he overuses nanomachines to get himself out of corners he wrote himself into, kills characters off unnecessarily for minor impacts considering how cheap death is in the series, and purposely retcons character growth just so they will have something to still angst about in the plot. These are not fanservice issues, these are the results of sloppy writing.

If I come off taking this too seriously it's simply because I wish to see things reach there true potential and witnessing creators half-assing it and then fans slurping it up and asking for more is not exactly ideal for perfection. If you don't push people to strive for the best they will never improve. If you tell them that mediocrity is good enough, you give people the terrible impression not to bother achieving their full potential because they will simply be rewarded the same whether they truly tried or simply just put enough effort into it, and if you don't call people out on when they make a mistake, then you have doomed yourself and them to repeat it because they don't know any better. Course you also stated I was a social gadfly so take these statement as you please. 53966

Some things to look at:

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I also found this awhile ago and am bit concerned...

Hideo Kojima Says Last Half of MGSV will Retcon the First Half of the Game - Play4Real (http://www.p4rgaming.com/hideo-kojima-says-last-half-of-mgsv-will-retcon-the-first-half-of-the-game/)

[Scotty_ffgamer]

For what it's worth, the article you linked to that concerns you is from a satire website. It's like The Onion for video games.

[Wolf Kanno]

I figured, Kojima is honest but not that honest. ;)

[Forsaken Lover]

Let's get away from the negativity for a bit.

Who is everyone's favorite voice-actors/actresses?

For me it's...
David Hayter as Solid Snake - mainly in MGS1 and 2.
Cam Clarke as Liquid Snake - The Ham of Hams!
Patric Zimmerman as Revolver Ocelot - I never cared much for "Young Ocelot". He neither looked as cool or sounded as cool. Zimmerman's voice is just so, so good.
John Cygan as Solidus Snake - Why he isn't voicing Old Big Boss, I have no idea.
Paul Eiding as Colonel Campbell - He tends to be overlooked but Eiding is great.
Lara Cody as Rosemary - Also tends to be overlooked but also really nice. Both she and Eiding pulled off "evil robot us'es" exceptionally well in the end of MGS2.

[Bolivar]

So hard to pick just one but as much as I enjoyed Kiefer in Ground Zeroes and think he will make an amazing boss, I will always miss David Hayter. I think it would be great if they brought him back if they ever did a Solid spinoff or a younger Boss game. Just tell him not to overdo the gravelliness.

[Wolf Kanno]

Yeah I am still hoping for Hayter to make a brief appearance as Solid Snake in Phantom Pain, maybe the hidden codec call at the end of the credits with Big Boss sending him out on the mission for Metal Gear.

Honestly, the VA work in the series is pretty top-notch so it is difficult for me to really choose one VA over another.

[Forsaken Lover]

Ya know, for MGS 1, did anyone else ever get the impression it wasn't supposed to be a super-serious story? Like, it didn't have the outright silly moments ala mGS3 but overall it just felt like Kojima was making one of those semi-parody action flicks from the 80s he so loved. Stuff like Liquid being The Terminator with no explanation, the overall tone of certain scenes and exchanges.... It was a great game with a really cool story but it wasn't like the games that came after IMO.

[Bolivar]

It had a really rugged veneer with some flashes of quirkiness in it, to be sure.

[KentaRawr!]

I've been on a massive Metal Gear kick lately. I beat MGS1 a few times, then went on to MGS2 and MGS3. I beat Portable Ops. again, and now I'm on Peace Walker again. MGS2 and 3 are probably my favorites, but I think most of what I like about MGS3 is its characters, who are most fully realized in the completely optional radio calls. I didn't really appreciate the work the voice actors go through until I decided to actually call The Boss during the Virtuous Mission and realized there was a huge amount of dialogue there. It's really jarring when you actually receive calls from your support team if you never call them yourself.

Peace Walker is immensely enjoyable, but I don't think I'm going to plow through it like I did the others. I've Metal Gear'd myself out. :lol:

[Ayen]

I don't know man, after painstakingly describing the use of nanotechnology in the first two games as a form of hard science fiction (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MohsScaleOfScienceFictionHardness) and then arbitrarily making them the magic cure-all to hand wave every plot point in MGS4 kind of feels like a cop-out to me.

"Hey boss, how are we going to explain Big Boss still being alive?"
"Nanomachines."
"What about Vamp's regenerative abilities?"
"Nanomachines."
"And the--?"
"Nanomachines."
"How about the--?"
"Nanomachines."
"You can't explain everything with nanomachines!"
"You're right, we'll explain the background of the Patriots by making the founding members the cast of MGS3.
"Well, that's pretty cool--"
"And then we'll kill them all!"
*sniff* "Even Para-Medic?"
>.> "Especially Para-Medic."
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"

....I've been playing Metal Gear Solid 4. The learning curve is a pain in the ass if all you're used to is the first three Metal Gear Solid games. The other games in the series don't play like 4, do they? Because I can't say the changes to the gameplay has me all that excited.

[Bolivar]

If the changes you're referring to are over-the-shoulder camera and no radar, then yeah, Peace Walker and MGSV follow that trend. IMO it makes for a much more immersive and challenging stealth experience, whereas the first three games were more like Pac Man runs (not that that wasn't fun).

[KentaRawr!]

I tried MGS4 again recently and got frustrated. I'm awful at this game. :crying:

[Ayen]

If the changes you're referring to are over-the-shoulder camera and no radar, then yeah, Peace Walker and MGSV follow that trend. IMO it makes for a much more immersive and challenging stealth experience, whereas the first three games were more like Pac Man runs (not that that wasn't fun).

Yeah, not a fan. I can't argue that it doesn't make the stealth play more challenging, but it's thrown out the window when if I get caught I just have to shoot everyone who comes close to me and move to the next area, whereas in the first game if I got caught my only option were to run and hide or die horribly. I think I got shot more for having my thumb linger on the X button longer than I meant it to than anything else.