Game Design Crimes

[Wolf Kanno]

Inspired by this article (http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/01/22/game-design-sins/), what are some game design choices that irk you and should be banned from gaming forever?

[Slothy]

Can we say goodbye to QTE's yet? I'd really like to say goodbye to QTE's.

Even when they're done well they aren't fun. They're just not a completely intrusive pain in the ass. And that much is hard to pull off. If you want to show me a cutscene then show me a god damn cutscene. Don't make me keep an eye out for a button prompt rather than watch what's happening. Cutscene or gameplay. You can't have it both ways.

[Jiro]

I hate QTEs when they aren't the crux of the gameplay, and when it's do or retry. Something like Heavy Rain is great because the QTEs are everything, so they aren't intrusive, and fucking up just leads to a new story branch rather than replaying it 500 times because the button combo is impossible.

[404]

Escort missions where the NPC has terrible AI. If you're being forced to keep another person alive its nice if they run away from the enemies at least.

[Formalhaut]

I hate QTEs when they aren't the crux of the gameplay, and when it's do or retry. Something like Heavy Rain is great because the QTEs are everything, so they aren't intrusive, and smurfing up just leads to a new story branch rather than replaying it 500 times because the button combo is impossible.

Yeah, QTEs have their place when they're the main gameplay element. I loved Heavy Rain for the story, and the QTEs kinda worked in that game.


Escort missions where the NPC has terrible AI. If you're being forced to keep another person alive its nice if they run away from the enemies at least.

I loathe Escort missions. I agree, if the escortee has some usefulness, then it isn't so bad but when they are utterly helpless, it is irritating.

[Dat Matt]

I haven't played many MMO games in my time. I started out on Rusty Hearts because it was free and pretty fun. "Kill X Number of Y Monsters" was not fun. It's something I seem to remember experiencing in both FFXI and FFXIV as well. I can understand why the quest asks you to do it, kill enemies, gain experience etc but I find them so dull.

I generally like grinding, so long as it's my own choice to do it. For example, I enjoy levelling up by characters before a boss fight in order to defeat him easier. If however I lose to the boss fight and have to grind that is less fun, as it is not my choice to do so. MMOs set you out grinding on wolves or mushrooms and that kills it for me. It's not my choice to go and kill 20 Dire Wolves, and then 12 Mandagoras. I would kill twice as many of that on my own accord so long as it's my own choice.

That being said, Rusty Hearts is pretty much the reason I hate this sort of quest. A mission in the early game was "Kill 100 goblins". Goblins only spawned in Area 1 in about 4 dungeons, so I ran through them about about 10-12 times to finish this quest. After completing this, I received a new mission, "Kill 500 Goblins". Considering it took me 2 hours to finish kill 100, I was not going back to do it all again 5 times longer. I gave it up at that point.

[Mercen-X]

Indubitably. The same could be said of fetch quests when they require you kill something to get the items they want.

I've said it before (though perhaps it was a different website), I despise the trophy system, at least insomuch when the trophies are for doing things you're already required to do to progress through the game. You should be rewarded for trying things you wouldn't normally do in the game: beating optional bosses, acquiring every weapon/skill/item, completing obscure sidequests, doing stupid things, etc.

[Flaming Ice]

Escort missions where the NPC has terrible AI. If you're being forced to keep another person alive its nice if they run away from the enemies at least.



Haha or there's a rat 20 feet away from you and they chase it down going off the pathway you're supposed to take XD



Sometimes it's nicer when they are guest members in a turn based game rather than a person moving around an open field (and if they die as a guest you revive'em).

[Ayen]

Can we say goodbye to QTE's yet? I'd really like to say goodbye to QTE's.

Even when they're done well they aren't fun. They're just not a completely intrusive pain in the ass. And that much is hard to pull off. If you want to show me a cutscene then show me a god damn cutscene. Don't make me keep an eye out for a button prompt rather than watch what's happening. Cutscene or gameplay. You can't have it both ways.


I hate QTEs when they aren't the crux of the gameplay, and when it's do or retry. Something like Heavy Rain is great because the QTEs are everything, so they aren't intrusive, and smurfing up just leads to a new story branch rather than replaying it 500 times because the button combo is impossible.

This so much. I came in here not knowing what design choices I hated and these guys reminded me QTE exist. I remember watching a Tarzan game long ago where the QTE were just ridiculous. And I never liked how certain boss fights just turn into one big QTE like it did in F.E.A.R. 2.

[Vermachtnis]

Yea fetch quests are bad and tedious, especially when the drop is stupidly low. I mean if it's for a quest I need 20 or so of them, I shouldn't have to kill a billion of the fuckers. Also goes for stupidly rare monsters with stupidly rare drops. I get that they don't want everyone decked out in the best armor and want you to work for it. But if the boss has like a 1 in 256 chance of spawning, I want something to show for it other than junk. Looking at you Zhu Que from MegaTen.

I walk over to save point, I open the menu, I go to save, I go to my file, and I'm treated to "DOES YOUS WANTS DO TO SAVING THE GAME!?" Why the fuck would I go through all that shit if I didn't want to save my game?

And on that note, in turn based games where you have to put in all your commands at the start of the turn and they ask you are you sure? Stop asking me if I'm sure, I know what I did.

One more thing about games that force you to do everything at the start of the turn. The randomized turn order needs to go. I mean when I played Final Fantasy III DS; Arc the Devout would usually go after Refia the Black Belt, unless he was healing in which case he'd go after everyone. Except for when I expected that and planned for him to go last in which case he would cut in front of Refia and heal everyone who was already at max health.

[Ayen]

That reminds me of another one. At the beginning of Digimon World after putting in my name the guy is like, "Are you sure?"

YES I'M SURE! Why would I put in a name I wasn't sure I wanted? I'm indecisive enough without you helping me!

[Flaming Ice]

]I walk over to save point, I open the menu, I go to save, I go to my file, and I'm treated to "DOES YOUS WANTS DO TO SAVING THE GAME!?" Why the smurf would I go through all that trout if I didn't want to save my game?


Some people have more than one save files....and there are a few notorious games that'll bring the last save data up first (so if you have to share the game with someone else you save over their file if you don't notice).




But save points are one thing that can also be annoying ...1/2 hr-1 hr to get to a boss and you cant save before you fight and sometimes the boss fight will take the same amount of time to beat too! Or you get into a 1/2 long cutscene after defeating a boss.



And on that note, in turn based games where you have to put in all your commands at the start of the turn and they ask you are you sure? Stop asking me if I'm sure, I know what I did.

It can be annoying but sometimes you do over click a button on accident.

[Mercen-X]

Hell, I've played games with that option where I accidentally click "Yes, I'm sure" when I was trying to go back. Setting everything up beforehand is a troutty way to do battle and really doesn't prepare anyone to create realistic strategies especially considering that very often, the actions are not taken the way you perceived they would. If the creators want to give a feel of strategy, then the battle should play out the way you planned for instead of screwing you over. Otherwise, the lesson learned is there is no way to plan for things because the world is chaos. That's why games where giving commands individually are superior imho.

[Mirage]

In games with multiple controllable enemies: Game over when one single of them dies, even if every single other character has a revival spell or item available.

[Old Manus]

One mechanic that doesn't get enough hate is the 'follow this guy - but don't get too close!' mission, usually complete with a 'spook-o-meter'. Apparently, calmly pulling up behind the target car at a red light and waiting to continue puts the freaks up any potential crims far more than a car performing several handbrake turns in the middle of the street around 100 yards back, banging into several cars and knocking over fire hydrants in the process.

[blackmage_nuke]

I also like the double check message that comes with saving and exiting a game.

I dislike enemies that scale with the character.

[Dat Matt]

Yea fetch quests are bad and tedious, especially when the drop is stupidly low. I mean if it's for a quest I need 20 or so of them, I shouldn't have to kill a billion of the smurfers. Also goes for stupidly rare monsters with stupidly rare drops

This links back into my point about wanting to grind for stuff. Linking the above to FF12 and the Danjuro Dagger. Most powerful dagger in the game, something stupidly low like 0.5% drop from a rare monster. I spent about 5 hours over 2 days trying to get this one weapon, and my god was it satisfying when I did. If I had to get it for any other reason bar my own desire to have all the weapons, I wouldn't have done it or quit the game at that point.

It comes back to if it's your choice to do the grind or not. I enjoy it when it's my own decision to do so.


One mechanic that doesn't get enough hate is the 'follow this guy - but don't get too close!' mission, usually complete with a 'spook-o-meter'. Apparently, calmly pulling up behind the target car at a red light and waiting to continue puts the freaks up any potential crims far more than a car performing several handbrake turns in the middle of the street around 100 yards back, banging into several cars and knocking over fire hydrants in the process.

Another good game for this was Deadly Premption. There was a "Tail this guy" mission where you weren't allowed out with 50-200m away from him. Any closer you'd spook him, and further away and he'd get away. So I stayed at around 60m, blasting my horn and police siren flashing my lights on and off. Apparently that didn't draw his attention, but getting 10m closer would.

[Mercen-X]

Apparently, calmly pulling up behind the target car at a red light and waiting to continue puts the freaks up any potential crims far more than a car performing several handbrake turns in the middle of the street around 100 yards back, banging into several cars and knocking over fire hydrants in the process.

Ye olde?
In games with multiple controllable enemies: Game over when one single of them dies, even if every single other character has a revival spell or item available.

Which games have controllable enemies?

[Mirage]

Looks like I used the wrong word. I meant controllable characters.

[I Took the Red Pill]

Escort missions where the NPC has terrible AI. If you're being forced to keep another person alive its nice if they run away from the enemies at least.On this note, when you're escorting someone or walking through town with someone and you're forced to walk at their pace and listen to their drivel. Even worse is when you run a bit ahead and they yell "where are you going?!" and stop dead in their tracks until you come back. I'm getting a bit annoyed thinking about it actually. :grover:

[Mercen-X]

When dialogue options other than "yes" are considered non-canon. Further, when dialogue options have little-to-no impact on the conversation, let alone the story.

[Madame Adequate]

I wish games would knock it off with the underwater escort quests where the NPC swims at a snail's pace and keeps stopping to talk to you with QTE-filled dialog :(

[Psychotic]

Random mandatory stealth sections where discovery means game over. Fair fucking enough if I was playing Splinter Cell, but I'm not playing Splinter Cell precisely because I think that sort of gameplay is shit.

[Flaming Ice]

Random mandatory stealth sections where discovery means game over. Fair smurfing enough if I was playing Splinter Cell, but I'm not playing Splinter Cell precisely because I think that sort of gameplay is trout.



Yeah, that's what makes shooters boring too...you cant run out and blow everything up or you die :cry: Shoot, chicken, shoot, chicken.....



When dialogue options other than "yes" are considered non-canon. Further, when dialogue options have little-to-no impact on the conversation, let alone the story.


Especially when the no option is pretty much the same as the yes option...they go right back into the same dialog......and sometimes the answer is almost identical just a couple words different.

[Mercen-X]

Yeah, I mostly hate when a character keeps saying "Quit stalling/kidding around" until you choose "yes."

[Formalhaut]

Yeah, I mostly hate when a character keeps saying "Quit stalling/kidding around" until you choose "yes."

It's like in every Pokemon game when your offered the Pokedex, and its a yes/no response. Saying no loops you back to the same question...

It's just an illusion to make you think you have choice, when you really don't. I don't like either.

[Vermachtnis]

Yea, that is pretty annoying. But, I like how in Golden Sun: The Lost Age, if you keep saying No, the Old Man calls you out on it and says something like, "Disagree all you want, but you're doing it." And of course at the start of the first game, saying No actually means No and you don't go on an adventure and the game ends.

[Flaming Ice]

Also when they give you obscure things to do like click on some object that you'd never guess in 10 years that you'd need to care about it in the first place.