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Wolf Kanno
05-10-2014, 09:04 AM
So do you feel that FFXII is the best PS2 entry or is your love to some other FF?

Forsaken Lover
05-10-2014, 09:16 AM
Uh...there are only two choices, unless we count spinoffs.

But yes, it is my favorite. It's my second favorite FF ever. Or first favorite, depending on my mood.

Fynn
05-10-2014, 09:38 AM
Yes indeed. It is.

NeoCracker
05-10-2014, 02:38 PM
Three choices actually, you also have X and XI. :p

Slothy
05-10-2014, 09:38 PM
Well, X is mediocre, XI is an MMO which I don't like and are better on PC than on a PS2 anyway, and FFXII has one of the best worlds and combat systems in the series and was a true joy to play.

Take a guess how I feel.

Pike
05-10-2014, 09:40 PM
I wanted so badly to like FFXII. I really did. But I just couldn't. I could never get more than about a third of the way into the game without feeling terribly bored and realizing it was dumb to continue playing a game that wasn't fun. So I have never finished this game, and I doubt I ever will.

I didn't like the combat, I didn't like whatever weird sphere grid thing they had set up, the characters were bland... in fact, I would say that this entry was what killed my interest in Final Fantasy games.

I'm sorry. I tried. :(

Ayen
05-10-2014, 10:03 PM
If the beginning part of the game was the whole game, maybe. But since it isn't, no. I don't feel it's the best PS2 entry at all. I prefer X, X-2 and even Dirge of Cerberus to it.

Wolf Kanno
05-10-2014, 10:07 PM
If the beginning part of the game was the whole game, maybe. But since it isn't, no. I don't feel it's the best PS2 entry at all. I prefer X, X-2 and even Dirge of Cerberus to it.

You are dead to me now ;)

Mister Adequate
05-10-2014, 10:09 PM
Like Pike I made such an effort to get into XII. It seemed to have all the right ingredients. A huge, expansive, gorgeous world that was far more developed than most. Some great design. A genuinely new and interesting take on battles. A story that seemed poised to hearken back to the best political stories in FF history. An absolutely absurd amount of bonus content in the form of monster hunts.

And halfway through it... I realized I just didn't care. I wasn't having fun. I wasn't even particularly not having fun, it was just a thing I was doing. It wasn't doing anything to excite or engage me and I've never been fully able to pin down why. I mean yes, Vaan isn't the best protagonist ever and yes, the license grid thing is pretty poor, but neither of those should be dealbreakers and in my mind they're not. But I've just never been able to get into XII.

Pumpkin
05-10-2014, 10:12 PM
I think X-2 is the best, but if not counting spin-offs than yes, XII

Ayen
05-10-2014, 10:12 PM
If the beginning part of the game was the whole game, maybe. But since it isn't, no. I don't feel it's the best PS2 entry at all. I prefer X, X-2 and even Dirge of Cerberus to it.

You are dead to me now ;)

54297

Forsaken Lover
05-11-2014, 12:23 AM
Preferring X to XII? That's whatever. They're both good.

Preferring X-2 to XII? I guess a lot of people really like job systems so okay.

Preferring Dirge of Cerberus to XII???????? I mean, I liked DoC kinda, but XII is so much better than it in every way imaginable.

Fynn
05-11-2014, 06:36 AM
If the beginning part of the game was the whole game, maybe. But since it isn't, no. I don't feel it's the best PS2 entry at all. I prefer X, X-2 and even Dirge of Cerberus to it.

You are dead to me now ;)

Same here. :stare:

Wolf Kanno
05-11-2014, 06:41 AM
If the beginning part of the game was the whole game, maybe. But since it isn't, no. I don't feel it's the best PS2 entry at all. I prefer X, X-2 and even Dirge of Cerberus to it.

You are dead to me now ;)

54297

http://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/evildead8.gif

NeoCracker
05-11-2014, 07:34 AM
XII would have been vastly improved had they not used Vaan and Penelo as the leads, and kept that to Basch and Ashe, the two characters who actually have something to do with the story.

And who were actually awesome.

But yeah, I really hate to admit I never finished FF XII either. :p

Silent Warrior
05-12-2014, 06:34 PM
NeoCracker: I think you misinterpret something there. You start out with Vaan and Penelo, true - but when all is said and done, are they the REAL main characters in the game? (Um, how far did you play, anyway?) The character gallery in XII works a lot like in VI - nearly everyone could be the true main character. Well, maybe not Penelo and Fran (and WHY THE SMEG NOT, SQUARE??), but the quest we eventually find ourselves in is in no small part about Ashe, right? Balthier plays a big role, Basch has his redemption thing, then there's "Larsa" and that pirate leader whose name I forgot...
Meh, whatever. THE POINT IS... the story started from the "wrong", supporting, character's perspective. IM-not-very-humble-O.

(And, hey, don't think I blame you for not finishing the game - it is HARD!)

Huckleberry Quin
05-14-2014, 06:17 AM
Yeah, I never really understood the hate for Vaan and Penelo as leads. Starting off with them was a great way to setup the personal and local consequences of war and conquest and introduced what was going on in very broad terms (the way that someone not particularly involved in the world might view things) so that the player wasn't overwhelmed with omnipotence. Then it uses these naive young chooks to introduce the main characters, but continues to use them to provide a more narrow-minded opinion of what's going on. The characters in this game all had different takes on the world and its inhabitants, but for the most part they were all very much interested in the bigger picture. Vaan and Penelo scale it down and allow for this amazingly grand political story to have very personal consequences that we - the player - can actually appreciate.

Pumpkin
05-14-2014, 06:28 AM
I really like Penelo

Fynn
05-14-2014, 06:32 AM
Yeah, I never really understood the hate for Vaan and Penelo as leads. Starting off with them was a great way to setup the personal and local consequences of war and conquest and introduced what was going on in very broad terms (the way that someone not particularly involved in the world might view things) so that the player wasn't overwhelmed with omnipotence. Then it uses these naive young chooks to introduce the main characters, but continues to use them to provide a more narrow-minded opinion of what's going on. The characters in this game all had different takes on the world and its inhabitants, but for the most part they were all very much interested in the bigger picture. Vaan and Penelo scale it down and allow for this amazingly grand political story to have very personal consequences that we - the player - can actually appreciate.

YES! So much yes. I could hug you now, Quin :flirt:

Ayen
05-14-2014, 06:57 AM
Preferring X to XII? That's whatever. They're both good.

Preferring X-2 to XII? I guess a lot of people really like job systems so okay.

Preferring Dirge of Cerberus to XII???????? I mean, I liked DoC kinda, but XII is so much better than it in every way imaginable.

I was a born again Christian who never questioned anything in my life until I got older, the religious themes and portrayal of the Cult of Yevon as well as the Yuna character were all things I could personally relate to and X continues to stand as one of the few RPGs where I have that close of a personal connection. X-2 was just dumb fun that expanded more on the world and gave you more choices than its predecessor; the dressspheres made it feel like I was playing a Magical Girl game too. I like third-person shooters and Vincent as a character as well as the modification I could do with weapons, so DoC was easy for me to get behind.

XII started out great and I was getting really into it, but once it got put on ice it couldn't heat itself back up. The MMO elements present in the game didn't help matters either since I'm usually put off by MMOs in general.

Botchmun
05-14-2014, 07:41 AM
Saying people should like FF XII is like saying David Cage games are better than Atlus games. At this point you should consider moving to an abbey in the black forest and living the rest of your life in quiet contemplation as a monk.

Also FF9.

Fynn
05-14-2014, 07:49 AM
Not a ps2 entry.

Botchmun
05-14-2014, 07:50 AM
You can play it on a PS2 and its still better than XII!

Psychotic
05-14-2014, 07:58 AM
I liked X and X-2 better, sorry :shobon: XII just didn't do it for me. The beginning was thrilling and fun, but after a while it wore thin and became a struggle to find the motivation to complete it. I should give it another shot.

Huckleberry Quin
05-14-2014, 08:39 AM
I loved Dirge of Cerberus.

Fynn
05-14-2014, 11:51 AM
I loved Dirge of Cerberus.

It's okay, I still wanna hug you anyway :flirt:

metagloria
05-14-2014, 02:00 PM
I *LOVE* X, X-2, and XII. And yet, XII is definitely without question the best of the bunch.

Raistlin
05-15-2014, 02:14 AM
FFXII was far and away the best PS2 entry. I consider it the best FF since FFT (yes, better than FFIX, I know that's heresy at EoFF).

I can sympathize a little with people who didn't feel attached to it partway through the first time. I felt the same way myself at first, as the way the story developed was poorly done. The dungeon crawling aspects overwhelmed the cutscenes for a good chunk of the game, and the pacing was dubious at best. But all told, the story was pretty great. I think XII is one of those rare games that actually improves substantially on subsequent playthroughs when it's easier to appreciate all that's going on.

Mister Adequate
05-15-2014, 02:18 AM
FFXII was far and away the best PS2 entry. I consider it the best FF since FFT

It's like you've learned nothing in all the years I've tried to teach you. :stare:

NeoCracker
05-16-2014, 06:41 AM
NeoCracker: I think you misinterpret something there. You start out with Vaan and Penelo, true - but when all is said and done, are they the REAL main characters in the game? (Um, how far did you play, anyway?) The character gallery in XII works a lot like in VI - nearly everyone could be the true main character. Well, maybe not Penelo and Fran (and WHY THE SMEG NOT, SQUARE??), but the quest we eventually find ourselves in is in no small part about Ashe, right? Balthier plays a big role, Basch has his redemption thing, then there's "Larsa" and that pirate leader whose name I forgot...
Meh, whatever. THE POINT IS... the story started from the "wrong", supporting, character's perspective. IM-not-very-humble-O.

(And, hey, don't think I blame you for not finishing the game - it is HARD!)

Horribly late to replying to this, but about half way through. Not due to difficulty, but the game started to get pretty borring for me at that point. Difficulty certainly doesn't compare with some of the Shin Megami Tensai Titles I play. :p

And I think it's bad comparison you made, cause VII is clearly Clouds story. Other characters may get their time in the spotlight, yeah, but at no point does it feel like it's any one but clouds story.

Fynn
05-16-2014, 06:50 AM
NeoCracker: I think you misinterpret something there. You start out with Vaan and Penelo, true - but when all is said and done, are they the REAL main characters in the game? (Um, how far did you play, anyway?) The character gallery in XII works a lot like in VI - nearly everyone could be the true main character. Well, maybe not Penelo and Fran (and WHY THE SMEG NOT, SQUARE??), but the quest we eventually find ourselves in is in no small part about Ashe, right? Balthier plays a big role, Basch has his redemption thing, then there's "Larsa" and that pirate leader whose name I forgot...
Meh, whatever. THE POINT IS... the story started from the "wrong", supporting, character's perspective. IM-not-very-humble-O.

(And, hey, don't think I blame you for not finishing the game - it is HARD!)

Horribly late to replying to this, but about half way through. Not due to difficulty, but the game started to get pretty borring for me at that point. Difficulty certainly doesn't compare with some of the Shin Megami Tensai Titles I play. :p

And I think it's bad comparison you made, cause VII is clearly Clouds story. Other characters may get their time in the spotlight, yeah, but at no point does it feel like it's any one but clouds story.

He compares it to VI in that regard and he's right. Neither of the two games has a clear protagonist. VI is no more Terra's story than Celes', Locke's and Endgar's.

NeoCracker
05-16-2014, 06:59 AM
Oh wow, I thought he said VII, not VI. My bad. :p

It's a fair enough comparison, but it doesn't stop Vaan from feeling like a waste. I don't really feel he adds to anything, nor is he a likeable character at all. FF VI's cast added a lot to the world and story, with a couple exceptions. None of which you are forced to spend as much time with as Vaan.

Fynn
05-16-2014, 07:07 AM
Vaan goes through the same thing as Ashe - he lost a loved one to the empire and is driven by revenge - but gets over it before she does, therefore helping her get over it. For all we know, without him there, she could've become a cold-blooded dictator and instigate mass genocide on Archadia.

Also, him being the bystander allows us to get introduced to Ivalice and its political tribulations in a very accessible manner :monster:

NeoCracker
05-16-2014, 07:17 AM
Considering he was added to the plot after the fact? I recall it being pretty public knowledge at the time Vaan's involvment was an executive decision that overuled Matsuno, so yeah. I doubt that prior to them shoe-horning Vaan into the plot Ashe was going to go all Genocidal. :p

And Vaan... Kind of fails at that second thing. He may be the superior character to Tidus, but Tidus did a much better job at being the babbling idiot who needed everything explained to him.

Oh god, I just admited Tidus was good for something. I need to go finish off the rest of my Jack Daniels now.

Fynn
05-16-2014, 07:23 AM
That's just my point.

For someone who was added so late into the development, the writers really did a good job in implementing him. Regardless of the meta facts, his presence there has become something important.

NeoCracker
05-16-2014, 07:27 AM
Except his presence had never felt important at any point, at least not up to half way through the plot. (I can't say from personal experience anything past that, but that's a long time to go for the guy to not feel at all relevant.)

Depression Moon
05-16-2014, 12:19 PM
I can agree that this is the best pS2 entry. Though I like Final Fantasy X's story a lot better because I can actually remember it, XII's world and combat were so well done that it outclasses X and X-2 for me.

Raistlin
05-16-2014, 12:47 PM
FFXII was far and away the best PS2 entry. I consider it the best FF since FFT

It's like you've learned nothing in all the years I've tried to teach you. :stare:

I know they say bad taste is contagious, but evidently it can't pass through computer screens yet as I remain uninfected.

Sephiroth
05-16-2014, 08:38 PM
Dirge of Cerberus, story-wise.

Wolf Kanno
05-17-2014, 08:18 AM
Dirge of Cerberus, story-wise.

http://i.imgur.com/3ebrr.gif

Pike
05-17-2014, 10:16 AM
Honestly I found Dirge of Cerberus and FFXII about equally enjoyable (aka not very :p ); I wouldn't say DoC was better though simply because FFXII had great music.

maybee
05-17-2014, 11:40 AM
Hell no.


I would rather play 40 hrs of Final Fantasy X-2 than go through 40 hrs of Final Fantasy XII.


So I have never finished this game, and I doubt I ever will.

I didn't like the combat, I didn't like whatever weird sphere grid thing they had set up, the characters were bland... in fact, I would say that this entry was what killed my interest in Final Fantasy games.

I'm sorry. I tried. :(

Yeah same here.

I can play older Final Fantasy games okay, but Final Fantasy XII was like that bullet that has murdered any desire to enjoy any newer titles, without struggling.

Shauna
05-17-2014, 11:53 AM
I much preferred FFX and X-2, however FFXII was still a fantastic piece of game. Just need to tighten up the story and pacing issues and whatnot.