No Final Fantasy XV at E3 this year

[Aulayna]

As mentioned in our E3 piece at:

http://home.eyesonff.com/showthread.php/157107-E3-2014-What-Can-We-Expect?p=3426636#post3426636

So, anyone feeling vaporware yet?

[DMKA]

I know we should be used to it by now but I was really looking forward to at the very least a new trailer.

That sucks.

[nirojan]

Damn I just read this on Kotaku...So I hope that after-E3 event isn't a "behind-closed-doors" thing, where they show off video to the press and then like a month later release the footage to the public.

[Ayen]

I expect they're trying to break the Guinness book of world records on longest time a game has been under development.

[Psychotic]

I expect they're trying to break the Guinness book of world records on longest time a game has been under development.Final Fantasy Forever.

[Wolf Kanno]

Not surprised, I am expecting a 2016 release for this game at the earliest to be honest. KHIII out before the end of this decade if we're lucky. I just hope the "information later" promise isn't empty promise cause there have been tons of time they promised new info only to basically say they are working on it and be patient.

I'm having flashbacks of South Park's parody of Game of Thrones where George R.R. Martin keeps saying "Don't worry, the dragons are coming! They'll be here soon, just be a little more patient."

It will be sad if this game ends up floundering because it's long ass development schedule ended up making most fans stop caring.

[Aulayna]

I expect they're trying to break the Guinness book of world records on longest time a game has been under development.Final Fantasy Forever.

Cool fansite name right there.

Also...

http://sfopera.com/SanFranciscoOpera/media/SiteAssets/8_About/Blog%20Images%202014/got-STONENOOOO.gif

[fat_moogle]

What makes this even worse are rumours of something new, "not a game", that's related to Lightning. What could it be? A FFXIII movie? That's why XV is on the back burner because they've been pumping all their money in to this! Advent Children with VII, now Saving Grace: Final Fantasy XIII CGI film to top off the Fabula Nova Crystallis / Lightning Saga. Did I mention I'm an insider? ;p

[DMKA]

What makes this even worse are rumours of something new, "not a game", that's related to Lightning. What could it be?

The two big rumors going around is that it's either that they're going to announce her role in Final Fantasy XV as a guest character or....this (http://livedoor.4.blogimg.jp/hatima/imgs/8/d/8d0d2297.jpg).

If either turn out to be true, I'm convinced Kitase and friends just love seeing fan outrage and are keeping Lightning revelant for the lulz. :p

[Ayen]

The latter seems more likely. Then again XV was originally meant as a spin-off, so who knows.

[FFFFsephychibi]

What makes this even worse are rumours of something new, "not a game", that's related to Lightning. What could it be?

The two big rumors going around is that it's either that they're going to announce her role in Final Fantasy XV as a guest character or....this (http://livedoor.4.blogimg.jp/hatima/imgs/8/d/8d0d2297.jpg).



please god no.

[Jiro]

This has soured me on Square Enix entirely. New rule: don't fucking announce a game a decade before you release it. Alternative rule: keep your fans properly informed. If Square Enix had said "Oh, we're going to wait for the next gen consoles for this title" I would have said awesome. I would have been positive about it. If Square Enix had said "we've had some hitches along the way, and our primary resources are being dedicated to Kingdom Hearts III and the Final Fantasy XIII compilation" I would have been absolutely satisfied with that. It would have bothered me somewhat, because I was not overly interested in the XIII compilation, but I would have understood. It sold well, and it was a matter of pride. Didn't want to leave the fans with a game that was hot and cold.

But this bullshit? Square Enix can get fucked if it expects me to be excited. I'm not going to chat with friends or strangers in the street about how good it looks and how much I want to play it. I'm going to talk to those people about how Square Enix is a shady, selfish company who keeps demanding energy from their fans without giving anything in return. I'm going to talk about the ten year wait, and about how once upon a time Square Enix was able to release 5 of its best and most loved games in the same period it has taken them to release 3 mediocre ones.

Then I am going to talk to people about other games, because I don't fucking care any more. My patience is gone. I would simply post the same article I published in HYPER but I don't even feel sorry for you any more, Square Enix, I feel like you are becoming the villain.

[Freya]

You'd think yoshi-p would have influenced them since he's been pushing the being open thing. His interview I wrote about a while ago said it was a battle with upper management when he's said trying to get SE to be more open.

[Ayen]

You'd think it'd be a no brainier, really. They could avoid a lot of the anger and frustration that has been going around if they had just done the things Jiro listed.

[FFFFsephychibi]

Jiro, I completely understand your frustration XD!!!!!!! Not gonna lie when I saw this kotaku post (http://kotaku.com/heres-what-e3-looks-like-right-now-1587078773) with the kh2.5 and ff14arr posters I felt a little sadness that they aren't ff15 and kh3.

I have a question: I know TGS is in september, but what what other big events could they show/give significant information about FF15? Just curious as E3 and TGS are the only events I pay attention to.

Do you think maybe that FF15 is closer to a mid/late 2015/early 2016 release so maybe they want to do heavy promoting closer to that time?

[Noctis Caelum]

Next-gen is a bust.

[Wolf Kanno]

Jiro, I completely understand your frustration XD!!!!!!! Not gonna lie when I saw this kotaku post (http://kotaku.com/heres-what-e3-looks-like-right-now-1587078773) with the kh2.5 and ff14arr posters I felt a little sadness that they aren't ff15 and kh3.

I have a question: I know TGS is in september, but what what other big events could they show/give significant information about FF15? Just curious as E3 and TGS are the only events I pay attention to.

Do you think maybe that FF15 is closer to a mid/late 2015/early 2016 release so maybe they want to do heavy promoting closer to that time?

There is JUMP Fiesta but I think that is held around December. Most likely SE will just do their own press conference.

[fat_moogle]

What makes this even worse are rumours of something new, "not a game", that's related to Lightning. What could it be?

The two big rumors going around is that it's either that they're going to announce her role in Final Fantasy XV as a guest character or....this (http://livedoor.4.blogimg.jp/hatima/imgs/8/d/8d0d2297.jpg).

If either turn out to be true, I'm convinced Kitase and friends just love seeing fan outrage and are keeping Lightning revelant for the lulz. :p
Maybe Square Enix have replaced Stella with Lightning!

But really, if that PS4 remaster of Lightning Saga is true then heads will roll.

[maybee]

Square Enix is a shady, selfish company who keeps demanding energy from their fans


http://homepage.ntlworld.com/abyss.uk/shinra.gif




But yeah, not kidding now. I agree with everything that you say Jiro.

[Del Murder]

http://www.noooooo.info/darthvadernooo.jpg

[Jessweeee♪]

Probably waiting for Jump Festa

i hope :(

[Rostum]

Yeah that sucks, was looking forward to some more information on FFXV and KHIII. It seems like this E3 is more important than usual since it's the first for the new generation of consoles. What a wasted opportunity.

Guess we'll just have to wait for TGS.

[black orb]

>>> What were you guys expecting? a release date? :lol:..:luca:

[Jiro]

A lack of Kingdom Hearts III information is doubly annoying, especially since that was sort of teased at the end of Kingdom Hearts II in 2005 (I know it was for another game but we were made to expect something before it was confirmed otherwise so it was basically an announcement of intent) making it arguably more of a piece of shit, but I don't feel quite as passionately about the betrayal here. I think that's partially because the mass production of Kingdom Hearts games for every console and handheld that I do not own has soured me on the entire franchise, so good work avoiding one negative reaction by implementing another?

But Kingdom Hearts 1.5 and 2.5 are clearly designed as solutions to that problem, and as advertising. It is my sincere hope that Square Enix has learned something in its years of operating and takes no longer than 6-12 months to release Kingdom Hearts III after 2.5 hits our shelves because otherwise people will become just as jaded and the steam of success will diminish. SE put, what, 12 months between 1.5 and 2.5 so if it exceeds that limit then Square Enix can consider the Kingdom Hearts boat sailed for a fair few fans.

But at least I haven't felt like Square Enix were constantly telling me to care about KHIII. At least Square Enix didn't go dark and then rename the thing as if we'll forget that it was announced. I'm warmed by the idea of Yoshi-P fighting the good fight; his work on A Realm Reborn should be celebrated. The fact that he had to do so, and the fact that Square Enix hasn't adopted his ethic company-wide is incredibly disheartening, but I guess we chalk it up to ~zany older Japanese businessmen~ and wait. And wait. Deus Ex: Human Revolution's prediction was way off, though: we're probably only going to be at XVI by the time 2027 rolls around

[Wolf Kanno]

Hate to break it to you Jiro, but since both FFXV and KHIII are being developed by the same team, KHIII probably won't be going into full on development until XV gets released meaning you time table for it's release after KH2.5 is a pipe dream.

[nirojan]

Hate to break it to you Jiro, but since both FFXV and KHIII are being developed by the same team, KHIII probably won't be going into full on development until XV gets released meaning you time table for it's release after KH2.5 is a pipe dream.

THIS. Like seriously. Every single interview Nomura has done in the past 3 or 4 years he's said KHIII won't be moving forward until they finish FFXV on account of the KH team being the one developing XV.

Get it together Jiro! :chocobo:

[Fynn]

Hate to break it to you Jiro, but since both FFXV and KHIII are being developed by the same team, KHIII probably won't be going into full on development until XV gets released meaning you time table for it's release after KH2.5 is a pipe dream.

THIS. Like seriously. Every single interview Nomura has done in the past 3 or 4 years he's said KHIII won't be moving forward until they finish FFXV on account of the KH team being the one developing XV.

Get it together Jiro! :chocobo:

But didn't they mention they could do both at once since KHIII was being done by the Osaka team?

[fat_moogle]

>>> What were you guys expecting? a release date? :lol:..:luca:
No, but SOMETHING would have been nice. We deserve to see at least a new trailer. I know they say good things come to those who wait but this is getting ridiculous! After the DK13 event in 2011 I thought "it's getting closer!"...but no.

[Mirage]

>>> What were you guys expecting? a release date? :lol:..:luca:

No, an alpha gameplay trailer.

[Jiro]

Hate to break it to you Jiro, but since both FFXV and KHIII are being developed by the same team, KHIII probably won't be going into full on development until XV gets released meaning you time table for it's release after KH2.5 is a pipe dream.

THIS. Like seriously. Every single interview Nomura has done in the past 3 or 4 years he's said KHIII won't be moving forward until they finish FFXV on account of the KH team being the one developing XV.

Get it together Jiro! :chocobo:

Like I said, I literally haven't given a trout about these titles since both of them have been like a decade in the making. You don't get two bites at my money. You deliver on your promises or you disappoint me. Square Enix has chosen the latter. I didn't buy XIII-2 or XIII-3 and I will likely not purchase either of these titles when/if they are released. This from someone who began to purchase every single game that carried the Square name he could find because I had loved their work. As I've said in a published article (http://oi59.:bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou:/sfieko.jpg), Square Enix needs to start respecting its fans if it wants anything from us, particularly our money. If Nomura wants to stake the future of the company on two releases and then have them delayed by having a single team working on perhaps the two biggest titles they've put together, that's not my business. I haven't seen any interviews. I don't care much for Square Enix and that is a conscious choice.

EDIT: it also makes absolutely no sense to be advertising one game that is apparently two-to-three years away from release at minimum while being, once again, tight lipped on the primary game. The Kingdom Hearts train has already slowed way the smurf down, but by delaying KHIII's release until way after their nostalgia trips 1.5 and 2.5, Square Enix is basically asking us not to give a trout. Please be excited my ass. If XV is the focus, then either release it or spruik it. I don't care one way or the other but I think the smurfing marketing department needs to be fired and all of the developers given mandatory PR training so they can stop being complete morons and saying things they probably shouldn't.

[Mirage]

buy them second hand so that SE doesn't get any money from them.

[Ouch!]

From a marketing perspective, holding back any major announcements about either Kingdom Hearts 3 or Final Fantasy XV is a smart move.

For months Yoshida has made us aware of major announcements for FFXIV coming at E3 this year. At the very least, we're going to get reveals on the new classes and jobs coming to the game. It's also very likely that we get a drop date for the first full expansion for the title, which they've said would come out approximately a year after release (so likely some time between September and December 2014). It's also possible we'll get more details on long-discussed but currently unreleased features such as chocobo breeding and racing or the Golden Saucer.

E3 is an ideal platform for Square Enix to drop major news for Final Fantasy XIV. As an MMORPG, FFXIV has a more limited audience. It certainly doesn't demand the media attention that KH3 or FFXV will. They have regular updates and Live Letters that, by and large, go unnoticed by those not already playing the game.

Think about this from Square Enix's perspective: after FFXIV's re-release in August, the company had to revise it's financial forecasts significantly twice to reflect how much that one title has impacted their bottom line. Final Fantasy XIV already has more concurrent subscribers than Final Fantasy XI ever reached at its peak, and FFXI was the single-most lucrative game in the history of the company. It's no wonder that they want to shift attention to FFXIV, and it would become far easier to ignore in the wake of any noise KH3 or FFXV would cause.

E3 provides a platform where everyone is watching. They're going to use that to try and drum up excitement for people who aren't up-to-date on the title and try to swing that into additional subscriptions. People who otherwise wouldn't be looking at the title are going to see it just because they're paying attention to E3, and if they make some big announcements that appeal to long-time Final Fantasy fans (and those fans don't have a shiny new FFXV to be distracted by), they're far more likely to succeed.

Final Fantasy XV and KH3 do not require such a platform. They're a platform unto themselves. Some grunt at Square Enix could make an offhanded comment about either title at a company barbecue and the media would collectively trout themselves and everyone and their mother would hear about it. That's why the comments about why we won't get either title at E3 this year was phrased in the manner that they will show it at the "optimal time". Square Enix can make their own media event for those titles later this summer and it will be just as effective if not more so as doing it now.

On a side note, in regards to Kingdom Hearts 3, I think Square Enix recognizes the issue that they've put themselves in by spreading out important entires into the series over so many different platforms. Obviously the re-releases of Kingdom Hearts 1.5 and Kingdom Hearts 2.5 are the solution to resolve this and get the majority of fans of the series on the same page. By consolidating as many of the titles as they can on a single platform, it lets them gear everybody up for Kingdom Hearts 3. It makes sense that they're going to push Kingdom Hearts 2.5 harder ahead of a real marketing campaign for KH3. It makes their job easier down the line.

[Wolf Kanno]

Hate to break it to you Jiro, but since both FFXV and KHIII are being developed by the same team, KHIII probably won't be going into full on development until XV gets released meaning you time table for it's release after KH2.5 is a pipe dream.

THIS. Like seriously. Every single interview Nomura has done in the past 3 or 4 years he's said KHIII won't be moving forward until they finish FFXV on account of the KH team being the one developing XV.

Get it together Jiro! :chocobo:

But didn't they mention they could do both at once since KHIII was being done by the Osaka team?

They are working on both, but my understanding is that the core of the development team is focusing on one while the Osaka team is working out the primary testing. Just watch the few videos of KHIII that have been released, they are obviously demos testing out the game physics and graphic ability, none of it looks like an actual playable game. The Osaka branch is just working on getting the software up and running. I doubt the plot is even fully written out by this point and the few interviews I've read about KHIII, it sounds to me like the team is still trying to sort out all the details of the game at this stage meaning they are in pre-production still and haven't even really begun working on the game. Nomura has said countless times since KHIII's announcement that it is going to be awhile before it gets released. Sorry man, I wouldn't expect it getting released until a minimum of three years after XV's release and that is being overly optimistic.

[fat_moogle]

Sorry Zachie but I completely disagree, I don't see anything "smart" about this decision. Final Fantasy Versus XIII was announced 8 years ago. Since then we've had XIII-2, Lightning Returns, FFX | X-2 HD, Type-0 (huge mistake not releasing in the West) and FFXIV, plus the whole spectacle of the name and platform change of Versus to XV.

WHAT ELSE IS THERE?

I mean, come on. 8 years. Sure, sure I know it hasn't been in full production for the majority of that period, but even so. The next logical step was a big XV reveal, there's nothing else left standing in its way, so why not show it? I bet we'll get a FFXII HD announcement instead..."due to the success of FFX | X-2 we're pleased to announce FFXII HD. Please continue be excited for FFXV!"

[Rostum]

there's nothing else left standing in its way, so why not show it?

I'm not sure you realise just how big of an impact that FFXIV has had on the company in many areas especially financially. It does make sense that they want to keep it in the spotlight.

It also make sense that they could leave FFXV and KH3 to something like TGS (which is what they usually do anyways) since it'll have just as big of an impact.

Edit: I really hope we get an FFXII HD Remaster announcement! :D

[FFFFsephychibi]

[QUOTE=fat_moogle;3427883]
Edit: I really hope we get an FFXII HD Remaster announcement! :D

I hope they will annouce that too, BUT after a release date is set for ff15, I will cry if another game gets in it's way of being released.

In relation to this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5GZj9sWPkY

[Aulayna]

[QUOTE=fat_moogle;3427883]
Edit: I really hope we get an FFXII HD Remaster announcement! :D

I hope they will annouce that too, BUT after a release date is set for ff15, I will cry if another game gets in it's way of being released.

In relation to this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5GZj9sWPkY

Well considering they outsourced the remasters of X/X-2 and had a seperate office working on KH1.5/2.5 - a HD remaster of XII won't exactly "get in the way"

[Mirage]

Yeah, with a company as huge as SE, putting all available staff to work on a single game wouldn't really make that game any better. It'd just lead to chaos within their offices. It's no problem to work on a HD remaster while not impeding on the progress of FF15.

[Loony BoB]

It also make sense that they could leave FFXV and KH3 to something like TGS (which is what they usually do anyways) since it'll have just as big of an impact.
This was my first thought, too. TGS has always been the big dog for SE when it comes to any information coming out after the initial reveal that it's being worked on.

This isn't a bad move on SE's part. If anything, the release of information so early on about FFXV was the bad move, because it built up hype before they were ready for it.

I also think FFXV's development has been slowed by FFXIV's success drawing in staff for FFXIV from other development teams. Which is entirely reasonable if you consider how bad a situation SE were in at one point and how much FFXIV has changed that. FFXIV is simply too important to them at the moment and it's not a bad thing - it's a good thing. If FFXIV flopped then they would be putting all their money into FFXV being a success or being the end of Final Fantasy. The better FFXIV does, the more likely we are to continue to see FF releases in the future, let alone SE releasing anything at all.

Hopefully we'll see something at TGS though!

[Elpizo]

While it does kind of suck, I have to agree with Bob and zachie on this. And I do have to admit I'm far more interested in any news surrounding XIV at E3 than I am for XV, but that's probably because XV has been in development for so long that I no longer care, as well as the fact that I don't have a PS4 to play it even if it did come out. :p

[Jiro]

From a marketing perspective, holding back any major announcements about either Kingdom Hearts 3 or Final Fantasy XV is a smart move.

For months Yoshida has made us aware of major announcements for FFXIV coming at E3 this year. At the very least, we're going to get reveals on the new classes and jobs coming to the game. It's also very likely that we get a drop date for the first full expansion for the title, which they've said would come out approximately a year after release (so likely some time between September and December 2014). It's also possible we'll get more details on long-discussed but currently unreleased features such as chocobo breeding and racing or the Golden Saucer.

E3 is an ideal platform for Square Enix to drop major news for Final Fantasy XIV. As an MMORPG, FFXIV has a more limited audience. It certainly doesn't demand the media attention that KH3 or FFXV will. They have regular updates and Live Letters that, by and large, go unnoticed by those not already playing the game.

Think about this from Square Enix's perspective: after FFXIV's re-release in August, the company had to revise it's financial forecasts significantly twice to reflect how much that one title has impacted their bottom line. Final Fantasy XIV already has more concurrent subscribers than Final Fantasy XI ever reached at its peak, and FFXI was the single-most lucrative game in the history of the company. It's no wonder that they want to shift attention to FFXIV, and it would become far easier to ignore in the wake of any noise KH3 or FFXV would cause.

E3 provides a platform where everyone is watching. They're going to use that to try and drum up excitement for people who aren't up-to-date on the title and try to swing that into additional subscriptions. People who otherwise wouldn't be looking at the title are going to see it just because they're paying attention to E3, and if they make some big announcements that appeal to long-time Final Fantasy fans (and those fans don't have a shiny new FFXV to be distracted by), they're far more likely to succeed.

Final Fantasy XV and KH3 do not require such a platform. They're a platform unto themselves. Some grunt at Square Enix could make an offhanded comment about either title at a company barbecue and the media would collectively trout themselves and everyone and their mother would hear about it. That's why the comments about why we won't get either title at E3 this year was phrased in the manner that they will show it at the "optimal time". Square Enix can make their own media event for those titles later this summer and it will be just as effective if not more so as doing it now.

On a side note, in regards to Kingdom Hearts 3, I think Square Enix recognizes the issue that they've put themselves in by spreading out important entires into the series over so many different platforms. Obviously the re-releases of Kingdom Hearts 1.5 and Kingdom Hearts 2.5 are the solution to resolve this and get the majority of fans of the series on the same page. By consolidating as many of the titles as they can on a single platform, it lets them gear everybody up for Kingdom Hearts 3. It makes sense that they're going to push Kingdom Hearts 2.5 harder ahead of a real marketing campaign for KH3. It makes their job easier down the line.

These are all good points, obviously. But again: if Kingdom Hearts III can build its own platform, why bother talking about it instead of XV at E3? Why not actually hype the game you're going to release to people before they die of old age? It just makes no sense, considering the backlash over hyping games up and then going silent on them. Nope, misread that elsewhere. It still rubs me the wrong way that they create these hype trains and then let them die off as if they expect us to survive on scraps for 10 years.

[Ouch!]

Jiro, I think at some point you need to be realistic and recognize that fans also hold a great deal of responsibility for the way studios hype these kind of things. In regards to highly-anticipated sequels, development studios are put in no-win situations when deciding the timing of announcing a game that is nowhere near completion of its development cycle.

If they announce something too soon, like Square Enix has done with Kingdom Hearts III, fans are upset when there's no follow-up news because they're too early in the development cycle. If they wait to announce things, like Valve has done with Half-Life 3, the fans get that hype train going on their own and the company is under endless scrutiny regarding the title anyway.

We do this to ourselves. No matter what the developers do, the hype trains will happen. They may stoke the fires, but we're the ones who go a pour kerosene all over 'em.

[Jiro]

Valve gave the fans an unfinished narrative. They reneged on something they started. Fans have to take responsibility but I don't think those situations are in any way comparable.

EDIT: I'm not entirely sure I make a lot of sense and Half-Life is a series I'm mostly unfamiliar with but, yeah, Valve didn't release Episode 3 so they're exactly the same kind of lying bastards that caused the hype train one way or another.

[Wolf Kanno]

I think the issue here that Jiro has illustrated is that the long delays and lack of info has killed the initial excitement for the game, even worse has been watching SE falter since the game's announcement with a trilogy no one really asked for, an MMO that was a disaster that could have been completely avoided had SE been a bit more patient and actually taken in some feedback, and the disappearance of other projects. Granted, they are now starting to make a comeback with ARR and Bravery Default but let's face it, this game is starting to lose people, SE's handling of their franchise has hurt consumer confidence that they can deliver a Triple A title. I think we'll all be more excited and happy once SE puts a date on this thing and I don't mean "summer of 2015 or second quarter of our financial report" I'm talking about an honest to goodness mark your calendars cause it's coming October 5th, 2015 type of date.

Hell, I probably wouldn't be alone if I said I am still going to wait for it even after it gets released cause I'm not interested in a day one purchase anymore. This long in development is never good and I'm personally waiting for the other shoe to drop on this game. Se should have never announced this game until they were further along but I also understand that part of the delay is due to XIV. Still, I feel we can all agree that SE's handling of this property's announcement has been nothing but disastrous .

[Pete for President]

This has soured me on Square Enix entirely. New rule: don't smurfing announce a game a decade before you release it. Alternative rule: keep your fans properly informed. If Square Enix had said "Oh, we're going to wait for the next gen consoles for this title" I would have said awesome. I would have been positive about it. If Square Enix had said "we've had some hitches along the way, and our primary resources are being dedicated to Kingdom Hearts III and the Final Fantasy XIII compilation" I would have been absolutely satisfied with that. It would have bothered me somewhat, because I was not overly interested in the XIII compilation, but I would have understood. It sold well, and it was a matter of pride. Didn't want to leave the fans with a game that was hot and cold.

But this bulltrout? Square Enix can get smurfed if it expects me to be excited. I'm not going to chat with friends or strangers in the street about how good it looks and how much I want to play it. I'm going to talk to those people about how Square Enix is a shady, selfish company who keeps demanding energy from their fans without giving anything in return. I'm going to talk about the ten year wait, and about how once upon a time Square Enix was able to release 5 of its best and most loved games in the same period it has taken them to release 3 mediocre ones.

Then I am going to talk to people about other games, because I don't smurfing care any more. My patience is gone. I would simply post the same article I published in HYPER but I don't even feel sorry for you any more, Square Enix, I feel like you are becoming the villain.

Best post Ciddies late 2014.

I stand by all of Jiro's points in this thread.

[Ouch!]

Valve gave the fans an unfinished narrative. They reneged on something they started. Fans have to take responsibility but I don't think those situations are in any way comparable.

EDIT: I'm not entirely sure I make a lot of sense and Half-Life is a series I'm mostly unfamiliar with but, yeah, Valve didn't release Episode 3 so they're exactly the same kind of lying bastards that caused the hype train one way or another.
I don't see how the two situations are anything other than... exactly compatible? Both Kingdom Hearts and Half-Life are both unfinished narratives. The only difference is that one company confirmed a sequel so early in the development cycle that they've got trout all else to say while the other has just decided to say nothing. To describe them as "lying bastards" just reeks for fan entitlement.

As for Wolf Kanno's points, I can totally sympathize. It definitely sucks to see a game slowly become vaporware due to unexpected and (relatively) unexplained delays, and I can also understand why confidence is shaken in their success. Shying away from a day one purchase is an entirely reasonable response.

My question to both of you is this, though: at this point, with all of that behind us, what do you expect Square Enix to do differently? When it comes down to it, fact of the matter is that these delays have happened. From a marketing perspective, does giving us news now if it's really not the best time to do so really make the situation better? In the case of Kingdom Hearts 3 specifically, is it really beneficial for them to start showing us alpha or maybe even pre-alpha builds? Has that ever resulted in anything other than disappointment later? Even FFXIV: ARR, which has been incredibly successful from a marketing and customer relations standpoint did not widely start sharing information until we were into open beta. KH3 doesn't have the luxury of engaging its fans in pre-beta stages, and if they start making promises on content that isn't finalized, they run the risk of making the problem worse.

Obviously Square Enix has mismanaged a lot of its titles over the past decade. Final Fantasy XIII was the first in the series that I sold back as soon as it was completed, and I never even bothered to pick up either of its sequels. Final Fantasy XIV was virtually unplayable when I bought the collector's edition at launch, and it took over a year and praise from a lot of people whose opinions I really trust to make me head back and give it a try again.

I'm not arguing that Square Enix hasn't damaged their brand (they clearly have); I'm just saying that from the developer's perspective, releasing too much information now runs too high a risk of damaging that brand further. As much as it sucks, if they're not ready to reveal things, it's probably better that they don't.

[Wolf Kanno]

My general feeling Ouch! is that SE should not have bothered with releasing any info on KHIII. They should not have even started the hype train until it was well on its way to full production, don't tell me you're going to give me the moon when you don't even have the blueprints for the rocket finished yet, they are in essence making the same mistake they did with Versus XIII. I mean we were told by Nomura himself that KHIII wasn't going to really start until after XV was released and the moment they showed that obvious demo trailer, we started getting fans talking about how it is coming out next year when that couldn't be farther from the truth.

Let's face it, SE should not try to announce titles unless they are going to do it like most other companies who usually announce their games when they are a year away from actually being released as opposed to announcing a game with a cool thirty second concept trailer cause only the basic idea has been sketched out. Basically, someone over at SE needs to stop posting the concept videos used to sell the idea to the higher ups onto YouTube afterwards. I'd rather be floored out of nowhere than spending ten years waiting for a game that may not come.

The other issue here is that I just wish SE had been a bit more honest with us about details of the game. We got a bit when XIII was entering post-production and they mentioned they syphoning some of the XV team to help and we were told XIV caused a wave of financial issues that affected the game but we're still talking about a few select moments. I already can guess that they built a new engine from scratch that is capable of doing stuff we've never really seen the series do before, the devil is in the details of the recent trailer but it would have been nice to be given a heads up that the new game engine was taking longer to build cause it had to be made from scratch cause nothing like it existed at the time. The same deal happened with XII, we as fans can understand this. I don't think we would have bitched as much if the team leaked out choice information to calm our fears. Announcing a game and then acting like it doesn't exist for several years is what causes all the nasty rumors and worries to begin with. They wouldn't have had to try and quell rumors of the game's cancellation a few years back if they had just been more forthright with information, even when they said it wasn't cancelled they simply said so and the president of the company said at the time that his closed doors preview of the city was impressive, they could have at least released some screenshots of this to quell the fans fears but instead it was just the same speech as always.

What I want from SE concerning XV at this point is for them to start throwing me some more bones. How far along is the game? I mean is it in post-production with the team tidying up the various lighting and graphics engines and play testing or do they still need to start building the last ten hours of the game from scratch? Show us some screenshots or concept art every few months instead of every few years. Start talking about things the game is going to do for us to look forward to besides realistic lighting and realistic weather patters cause right now that is stuff a lot of people have already pulled off in the time they've been dicking around with it. Let's get a few more tidbits of the characters and plot instead of out of context cutscenes and grainy film from secret footage stolen out of the closed door meetings concerning it. They are obviously going to do all this in the few months leading to it's release but they could honestly start doing it now if it is carefully planned out enough not to ruin the surprises of the team. Course that is under the assumption the game is 12 to 18 months away from completion which if it isn't then maybe give us some background info. Show us happy pictures of the development team hard at work, just give me the impression this is a priority and that I will want it when it comes out after losing interest cause the company has been screwing around for the last console cycle.

This game has the potential to be really awesome, start making me want to care again. SE needs to focus on trying to win back the fans who have been discouraged by their mismanagement. They did with XIV so why can't they do it with XV?

[Jiro]

I don't see how the two situations are anything other than... exactly compatible? Both Kingdom Hearts and Half-Life are both unfinished narratives. The only difference is that one company confirmed a sequel so early in the development cycle that they've got trout all else to say while the other has just decided to say nothing. To describe them as "lying bastards" just reeks for fan entitlement.
Yeah, it was like 3am and I wasn't sure the words I was writing carried my point across. Clearly I fucked up :gator: I was trying to point out that Final Fantasy XV, Kingdom Hearts III, and Half-Life 3 were not at all in keeping with your point about fan-made hype trains.


My question to both of you is this, though: at this point, with all of that behind us, what do you expect Square Enix to do differently?
Once you starting releasing details, you have to keep the public informed. I don't mean releasing 500 trailers that effectively tell you everything that happens a la Lightning Returns. I mean, you're going to perhaps the biggest gaming conference in the world and you're not being upfront with how much progress you've made in your two primary titles. It doesn't need to be centre stage, but you have all the world watching. As much as I've criticised the announcing an announcement habit, actually telling us to expect more at TGS would go a long way to demonstrating that they haven't forgotten and that they still care. We need to be kept in the loop even more now that they have disappointed fans.

[Sephiroth]

Probably we get an announcement for Final Fantasy XVI Online.

(I hope not. Please release Final Fantasy XV.)

[Wolf Kanno]

No FFXVI is obviously going to be a free to play browser based game with tone of paid extras.

[Sephiroth]

Which would mean it is online as I said.

[Ayen]

You're both wrong. It's going to be a mobile game.

[FFFFsephychibi]

[QUOTE=fat_moogle;3427883]
Edit: I really hope we get an FFXII HD Remaster announcement! :D

I hope they will annouce that too, BUT after a release date is set for ff15, I will cry if another game gets in it's way of being released.

In relation to this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5GZj9sWPkY

Well considering they outsourced the remasters of X/X-2 and had a seperate office working on KH1.5/2.5 - a HD remaster of XII won't exactly "get in the way"


Honestly it doesn't seem like it really matters how much they outsource and the amount of teams they have, 8+ and counting games have been announced, prioritized, and shipped since 15's 2006 announcement. That is what I mean by 'get in the way'

I get Square Enix is big and to me it seems like they have terrible management. final fantasy 13,13-2, 13-3, 10 hd, kh 1.5 and 2.5.... birth by sleep, dream drop distance, the 2 ds kh games. bravely default and theatrhythm, 2 dissidias.... crisis core.... multiple final fantasy ports, and 2 ff14 games in it's dev time as well.... and i know im still missing a lot of games here.

To clarify one last time what 'get in the way' means: Another game getting revealed and released and we still don't have a solid clue when we will get ff15, 8 years later.

Sorry just trying to defend my point :(

[Del Murder]

Like WK all I really want is some honesty. To be told exactly where the game is in development and how long they expect it to take. They don't have to throw up a booth at E3 or put out a bunch of trailers, but something other than reminding us the game exists would really go a long way to show that they care about their fans and not just their bottom line.

[Ouch!]

I'd agree on confirmation as to where in development the game is, but I'd understand shying away from any confirmation of how long they expect it to take. Anything said is likely to be taken as gospel; better to undersell than to over-promise, especially when dealing with a fanbase as fickle as gamers.

[Jiro]

I'd agree on confirmation as to where in development the game is, but I'd understand shying away from any confirmation of how long they expect it to take. Anything said is likely to be taken as gospel; better to undersell than to over-promise, especially when dealing with a fanbase as fickle as gamers.


We think it's going to be released in Q4 2015, but game development can be full of unexpected delays. We hope that everything will run smoothly from here so you can enjoy Final Fantasy XV as soon as possible, but we will update you with our expected release dates as we proceed.

If fans somehow take issue with this then they are the self-entitled pricks that nobody cares about anyway. I don't see how being upfront and honest is a bad thing. We know games take a while to release. But having Square Enix just pretend that nothing is wrong and suddenly the game is not being talked about because... well it could be anything. It could be vapourware. We need to know these things so we can channel our energy constructively. Fans spent their time demanding to know if it was vapourware or not and then when it was finally confirmed as still in development for maybe sometime this decade, everyone was too tired of complaining to actually want to support it and celebrate it.

[Loony BoB]

I think something we can all agree on is that SE just need to speed up their development in general . I feel SE get a short straw in this regard because they love to innovate so much, which means a lot of bugs and failed ideas compared to, say, Let's Make Another Game Just Like The Earlier One which most devs go for. But even then, five years is enough. Hell, CoD devs these days can get a game out every two years. Maybe announce games much later in the development cycle to avoid issues.

[BustaMo]

I think back to how SquareSOFT was putting games out at most every 2 years. Sure the PS1 and NES games back then were less graphically gifted and simpler, but with the technology now, there's no reason games should be taking 5-6 years between main installment games in this series. There are a TON of Final Fanasy fans world-wide, and somehow Square-Enix makes it sound like they are nearly broke after every release of a game. Maybe that's true, but something needs to change to spice up the series and keep us die-hards thirsting for more.

Hopefully Tokyo Game Show later this year has something for us to chew on and hope for in the next 2 years.

[Dark_Valentine]

What makes this even worse are rumours of something new, "not a game", that's related to Lightning. What could it be?

The two big rumors going around is that it's either that they're going to announce her role in Final Fantasy XV as a guest character or....this (http://livedoor.4.blogimg.jp/hatima/imgs/8/d/8d0d2297.jpg).

If either turn out to be true, I'm convinced Kitase and friends just love seeing fan outrage and are keeping Lightning revelant for the lulz. :p
I love Final Fantasy but if the first rumor is true, so help me I will never play another final fantasy until they remake VII...I have been waiting for this game for too long. Lightning's story is complete, there's no reason to include her in another game, especially after they separated it from the XIII franchise. I'm slowly losing my love for Square =/ They need to come out with this game soon, even if it's next year, so that players don't completely lose all hope in them. Pushing it back to 2016 will be the death of them.

[Aulayna]

What makes this even worse are rumours of something new, "not a game", that's related to Lightning. What could it be?

The two big rumors going around is that it's either that they're going to announce her role in Final Fantasy XV as a guest character or....this (http://livedoor.4.blogimg.jp/hatima/imgs/8/d/8d0d2297.jpg).

If either turn out to be true, I'm convinced Kitase and friends just love seeing fan outrage and are keeping Lightning revelant for the lulz. :p
I love Final Fantasy but if the first rumor is true, so help me I will never play another final fantasy until they remake VII...I have been waiting for this game for too long. Lightning's story is complete, there's no reason to include her in another game, especially after they separated it from the XIII franchise. I'm slowly losing my love for Square =/ They need to come out with this game soon, even if it's next year, so that players don't completely lose all hope in them. Pushing it back to 2016 will be the death of them.

Worry not then.

The rumored Lightning thing turned out to be a series of XIII based novels that are only being released in Japan.

[Fonzie]

What makes this even worse are rumours of something new, "not a game", that's related to Lightning. What could it be?

The two big rumors going around is that it's either that they're going to announce her role in Final Fantasy XV as a guest character or....this (http://livedoor.4.blogimg.jp/hatima/imgs/8/d/8d0d2297.jpg).

If either turn out to be true, I'm convinced Kitase and friends just love seeing fan outrage and are keeping Lightning revelant for the lulz. :p
I love Final Fantasy but if the first rumor is true, so help me I will never play another final fantasy until they remake VII...I have been waiting for this game for too long. Lightning's story is complete, there's no reason to include her in another game, especially after they separated it from the XIII franchise. I'm slowly losing my love for Square =/ They need to come out with this game soon, even if it's next year, so that players don't completely lose all hope in them. Pushing it back to 2016 will be the death of them.

Worry not then.

The rumored Lightning thing turned out to be a series of XIII based novels that are only being released in Japan.

That's equally terrible.

[Del Murder]

Yeah man, Fonzie wants those novels in English gods dammit!

[Fonzie]

Yeah man, Fonzie wants those novels in English gods dammit!

なし私はしないでください。