Death Note Conversation

[DarkBahamut]

Not a spoiler, but if you have animes to recommend to me, please read.

So recently I've been trying to discover new animes, but instead watched animes I've already watched. (DBZ, rewatched dozens of times. Rurouni Kenshin, rewatched 3 times. Trigun, just started rewatching for the first time.) I watched the first 5 episodes of Death Note when it used to air, but stopped. My friend told me to come back to it and it was amazing. I also just watched the first 3 episodes of Attack on Titan. I want to watch an anime that is well thought through like Death Note or as smooth and has action like Rurouni Kenshin. So please PM good animes that you'd recommend.

Death Note was amazing. The first 25 episodes were flawless, basically from the start till when L dies. After that, it was still interesting but some of the episodes lacked as much thought as the other ones consisted of. I began questioning a lot about the content of the show.I really liked Light Yagami, or Kira. I always wanted him to win and whenever I thought he was a brilliant character because of how well he thought ahead of things. L was also a perfect character and great balance to Light. I cried at the end of the show when Light dies.

When I look back, I feel confused though. I know it's wrong to kill people, no matter what. It's also wrong to assume that you can be a God of anything and change the balance of things and affect the way of life that happens on its own. But Light really only wanted to get rid of evil. His intentions were almost pure, which I think is what made me sad that he became too overwhelmed by his own power and soon his mind almost became completely tormented.

What side were you on? What was wrong? What was right? Please discuss anything.

[Lone Wolf Leonhart]

I was rooting for Kira. God of the new world.

I've often wandered about the moral dilemmas of the show, particularly back when I was watching it. If someone had the power to kill someone simply by writing their name in a notebook, and used the power to only destroy the rotten people of the world, would I support them or want that book out of their hands?

Somebody with that kind of power would inevitably turn narcissistic and their self importance would grow out of control.

[Parker]

Rooted for L for sure.

Killing people who are bad is dumb and silly

[Jinx]

I don't care for the show, but I'm currently re-reading the manga!

The dilemma isn't that it's necessarily wrong to want bad people out of the world. I think most half-way decent people can agree the world would be a better place without murderers, rapists, child molesters, domestic abusers, etc. The dilemma presented in the book is that if ONE person has the right to decide the fate of others, since he or she will in turn become a murderer, they will be the ultimate evil they are trying to eradicate.

Also, as the series goes on, you can see a pretty clear deterioration of Light's mental stability. And as L points out numerous times: for him, it stops being about taking out the bad guys, and in the end he'll take out anyone who stands in his way/tries to discover it. Even people who are doing it for the right reasons (and not simply because they themselves are a criminal who doesn't want Kira to find out about them).

It also explains pretty clearly that most of the world would end up living in fear, and would have to question when Kira would stop. At first it's people who hurt others, but what about people who have road rage? Or are too rude or something? Where does it end? It's better to live in a world where there are people that hurt others than to live in a world where you're not allowed to be your true self (think 1984 and how neighbors turned on neighbors, kids on parents, etc) for fear that it will get you killed.

[DarkBahamut]

Probably the scene that first shows Light's deterioration is when he kills Raye Penber, the detective following Light's actions and Naomi Misora, the fiance of Raye.

[Alive-Cat]

I really want the Manga, will probably purchase it soon, but I did love the show too! Me and my older brother had a thing, every Wednesday my mum throws a family dinner where everyone comes to eat, so every Wednesday he would come visit and I'd come home from college and we would watch an episode or two. Good memories, good times.

The Japanese band who did the second opening song, I saw them live! They were great. What the hell were they called. Oh yeah Maximum The Hormone, so good :greenie:

I rooted for L until he died but I have to admit, I did not want Light to get caught at the end. I really quite liked the end, it was fitting.

[Jinx]

Yeah, I don't remember actually wanting Light to get caught (the first time I read it). It's not because a supported him, just the manga made me kind of anxious and he was still the anti-hero!

Also, can we talk about how BAD the American names is this manga are? Holy hell, man. xD

Raye Penber (male)
Haley Belle (male btw)
Liab Zaopack
Arire Weekwood
Freddi Guntair (also male)
Knick Staek
Bess Sekllet
Frigde Copen
Toors Denote
Girela Sevenster
Nikola Nasberg

These are not American names. xD Like, maybe a couple of them sound vaguely name-ish, but they're female names for males! xD

[Karifean]

Light was too damn pitch-black for me to root for him ^^

Although honestly, I was on neither side. I simply wanted both sides to go all-out and give me a really great battle of wits that's fun to watch. For me the show kinda fell off after L died. Nothing against Near, but he was no L, and Light didn't really get the great finale I wanted him to be sent off with.

[Jiro]

I don't recall whether Ohba categorically stated that we're not supposed to root for Light, but I think Death Note does a wonderful job of first getting us invested in the character and then asking us to hate him. As he starts to kill people who are innocent just to save his own ass, you begin to feel like he's no longer the right guy for the job. You can't just turn your back on him though, because you're invested. You care. He's a bad guy, but he has noble intentions, right? And you celebrate his successes because he's so clever. He can even outsmart the world's greatest detective(s).

But then he gets caught up in his own power. And if you're like me, you still enjoyed watching his intricate plans, but you no longer felt like he was a good person. I anticipated him killing off the other main characters, people I also liked, and people that were wholly innocent. When he fails, when he starts to freak out and desperation claws through his voice, I felt torn. He had fallen too far; he was beyond saving. But at that point we saw a flicker of what Light should've been. It mirrored the freak out he had earlier in the show when he voluntarily locked himself up. That entire section was magnificent because we saw that Light could have been the greatest detective. He could have surpassed L and actually done some good.

I love Death Note tbh

[Christmas]

In the end, it's that god of death that has the last laugh for everything anyway. :(

[Alive-Cat]

In the end, it's that god of death that has the last laugh for everything anyway. :(

Yes, he was correct from the very start!

What are everyone's opinions of the live action movies? :greenie:

[DarkBahamut]

The live action movies were kind of funny to me, but were still alright. Watchable.

But I was so angry that Light could have won all along. He underestimated Near which his main mistake, but if he kept his cool in the last moments, he still might have found a way to overcome his obstacles. If he got rid of that room alone, he'd be superior.

[Alive-Cat]

I don't recall whether Ohba categorically stated that we're not supposed to root for Light, but I think Death Note does a wonderful job of first getting us invested in the character and then asking us to hate him. As he starts to kill people who are innocent just to save his own ass, you begin to feel like he's no longer the right guy for the job. You can't just turn your back on him though, because you're invested. You care. He's a bad guy, but he has noble intentions, right? And you celebrate his successes because he's so clever. He can even outsmart the world's greatest detective(s).

But then he gets caught up in his own power. And if you're like me, you still enjoyed watching his intricate plans, but you no longer felt like he was a good person. I anticipated him killing off the other main characters, people I also liked, and people that were wholly innocent. When he fails, when he starts to freak out and desperation claws through his voice, I felt torn. He had fallen too far; he was beyond saving. But at that point we saw a flicker of what Light should've been. It mirrored the freak out he had earlier in the show when he voluntarily locked himself up. That entire section was magnificent because we saw that Light could have been the greatest detective. He could have surpassed L and actually done some good.

I love Death Note tbh

Light was the smartest of all if not for his goddamn ego and ideals! He lost it. Goodbye, Light :(

[Spuuky]

Ergo Proxy.

[DarkBahamut]

When that girl is being raped, and Light uses the Death Note, I really thought Light was going to be a righteous person.

"Humans are so....interesting." - Ryuk

[Jiro]

It typifies that "absolute power corrupts absolutely" maxim. Light had good morals. He thought that made him immune to the greed. But then someone challenged him and he got cocky. Sure, L kept Light on his toes, but beating L made Light think he was absolutely invincible.

[DarkBahamut]

It typifies that "absolute power corrupts absolutely" maxim. Light had good morals. He thought that made him immune to the greed. But then someone challenged him and he got cocky. Sure, L kept Light on his toes, but beating L made Light think he was absolutely invincible.

This is the perfect analysis really. If you've seen the deleted scene, or the one put in the OVA when the Kira Investigation Squad, Light, and Ryuk are at L's grave, he really assumes he's won for sure. And that's when he claims the fun is only going to begin to start.

Another question, that should stir up more debate.....
Near + Mellow > L
or
Near + Mellow = L

My honest opinion is both of them are supposed to be equal splits of L's personality. Leaving them to be both 50% of L, and add up to equal strength to L.

And I believe Light is bit ahead of L in strength (can't find a better word to define it), but he started thinking at a level lower than his own normal self, making him weaker than Near + Mellow (L).

A large amount of people believe Near and Mellow together are worth more than L just on the fact that them two eventually overcome Light. My counterargument to that is the fact that L was a huge reason for why they've gotten so far in the investigation. He narrowed down so much for everyone else, they just need about 75% of Light's intelligence to win.

[Jiro]

L's only weakness is that he still gives too much consideration to justice. He was adamant that Light was Kira almost immediately; if he had become a vigilante killer himself, the series would've ended at like episode 5. He played fast and loose with his own life which had Light on the back foot for most of his arc, and he was only screwed over by crazy Shinigami rules about love and preventing death. Without REM, Light was finished.

Maybe Mello and Near working together would be better than L. But getting them to work together -- actually together -- is impossible. Like you say, DarkBahamut, they only overcame Light (and therefore "beat" L) because L had laid the groundwork. It only took a few choice words from Near before half of the SPK actually suspected Light again too, and that is in spite of them working with him and actually liking him. So for there to be suspicion in the face of denial means that Light was a little more out of his depth than he realised.

[Jinx]

Also, I'm like 90% sure that when Watari died he deleted all of L's info related to the Kira case!

[Parker]

Yep, he definitely hit a killswitch, presumably so Light couldn't use information from the computers against L's replacement(s)

[Karifean]

IMO L was definitely the smartest. However, it is difficult to really say, since both sides were at times helped by crazy chance.

The fact that L manages to narrow down Kira's identity to maybe a four-digit number of possibilities in very short time is amazing enough already, but he even comes to suspect Light really soon. If Light hadn't met Naomi, or if the investigation team had left someone at the station, or if Naomi hadn't come to the station exactly when they were out meeting L, Light would've been caught right there. Even so, L was making steady progress in catching Light. That is, until Misa happens.

If you were to think of the early parts of Death Note as a logical game of chess between Light and L, Misa and Rem's appearance is the equivalent of a third person suddenly interrupting the game, moving Light's pieces themselves and putting their own pieces on the board. It's both a blessing and a curse for both sides. In the end, Rem abruptly killed L when he was just about to checkmate Light, having seen through all his schemes and plans. Of course, Light might've been a little more careful and could've bought more time if he had tried, but he wanted L to reach the truth, which in turn made Misa's lifespan probably incredibly low and thus Rem acted. Still, I believe that L would've caught Light. Both if Misa and Rem had stayed off the game board, as well as if Rem hadn't sacrificed herself to advert the checkmate. Light had more arbitrary advantages, in my eyes, so I'd say L is the smartest.

[DarkBahamut]

Oh sorry. I should rephrase what I had said earlier.

I think Light is ahead of L ONLY because of his supernatural power. But as an intellectual, in intelligence, I think L exceeds Light. He also became a little friendly with Light towards the end, and the fake rules and Rem all came together to end that battle.

[Jiro]

Also, I'm like 90% sure that when Watari died he deleted all of L's info related to the Kira case!

I don't mean ground work as in actual information. Mello and Near knew L. They knew his way of thinking. All they had to do was look at the situation and see what didn't fit. And Near only needed to say "I think Light-L is Kira" and everybody straight up suspected him again. That was part of Light's downfall and never would have stuck if not for L already setting that up the first time.

[DarkBahamut]

I understand the last episode, but can someone break it down for me in depth, how Light gets caught and the actions Near took and mistakes by Mikami.