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Pike
07-02-2014, 06:23 PM
Kefka is often considered to be the greatest villain in the Final Fantasy series. Do you agree with this assessment, or do you feel that he is perhaps a bit overrated? Or good, but not great?

VeloZer0
07-02-2014, 06:29 PM
I don't know that I would definitively call him the greatest, but I would say that he is one of the best contenders for that title.

Pumpkin
07-02-2014, 06:41 PM
He is my favourite FF villain

metagloria
07-02-2014, 07:19 PM
He's high, but I still favor Sephiroth.

The fascinating thing about Kefka is that his evil plan actually succeeds. Most of the big bads in RPGs have some master evil plan and the heroes have to stop it before he can carry it out. But Kefka, after manipulating the statues, achieved the godlike status he desired, ruined the world, and made people his slaves. It's only after that fact that the heroes, one by one, say "We've gotta get rid of this guy" and take him down. But the damage is already done; the world of balance is gone, even after Kefka's defeat.

The Man
07-02-2014, 08:50 PM
Best in the series, of course. Of JRPG villians the only other one who comes close is Luca Blight.

Christmas
07-03-2014, 01:16 AM
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130411192755/video-game-championship-wrestling/images/1/1c/Kefka_finalform.gif

The toned muscles totally add points to it. :bigsmile:

Sephex
07-03-2014, 04:08 AM
He's a great villain, but not my personal favorite. He is definitely memorable, and did a good job as blending in as a typical upper henchman for a good portion of the game. He was the first FF villain that wasn't "I AM THE DARKNESS AND I WILL END THE WORLD IF YOU DON'T GET THE DOHICKEYS!!" Since the player saw him grow to a "noramal" insane dude to a ruthless god, I think that's what makes him work and why he is a beloved bad guy.

Rez09
07-03-2014, 06:43 AM
He's a contender for my favorite villain in the series; he's got a lot of energy and crazy personality to him, which I feel is lacking from most previous villains. I do feel he gets a bit too much credit sometimes, though.

Spooniest
07-03-2014, 08:09 AM
Kefka is a case of weirdness incarnate in RPGs. He walks around like he owns the place, in the most literal sense, during the first half of the game, and when he achieves "phenomenal cosmic power" he just sort of short circuits. You notice, Kefka doesn't really do anything during the second half of the game.

I don't know about you, but I would be doing something with phenomenal cosmic power. Exacting tribute payments. Having people work on something, a fortress for me or something. Kefka just sets up his tower and starts firing away with his light of judgement. No plan, no ultimate goal. He's just sort of waiting around to get slaughtered because he knows there are more powerful people than him in the world.

This says something about how much power a magical being has to impart. If Kefka absorbed the power of the Triad, and still just couldn't bring himself to any level of sanity to try to protect himself, beyond setting himself up in a tower full of monsters, you can't say too much for his sanity.

In short, the power of the Triad can't cure crazy.

Psychotic
07-03-2014, 08:28 AM
It's great to have a villain with a sense of humour. With the possible exception of Jecht (and you could certainly argue he's not even a villain!) he's the only one that doesn't take it all so seriously. I would've liked some backstory or to learn a bit more about how the fuck the Empire ended up promoting such a complete jackass xD

Rez09
07-03-2014, 09:26 AM
I always assumed he was promoted before the magic-infusion process drove him insane.

Sephex
07-03-2014, 10:03 AM
I always assumed he was promoted before the magic-infusion process drove him insane.

I totally agree here. I believe he was ambitious, and would have tried to take over anything anyway. However, since the infusion process wasn't perfected yet, according to that one Vector NPC, I do believe that Kefka's insanity was an unintended consequence of the experimentation.

Shiva95
07-03-2014, 01:43 PM
For me, Kefka is the greatest vilain because his plans succeed and because he is simply a psychopath!

Sephiroth
07-03-2014, 08:21 PM
The fascinating about Kefka is that his evil plan actually succeeds.

Kefka's plan was bringing endless destruction so he didn't succeed. That is like saying Sephiroth succeeded in his ultimate goal because he summoned a Meteor that actually even crashed down to Gaia. Kefka destroys every single seed of hope and happiness and Sephiroth wants to get more and more powerful. And none of them, though becoming stronger, finally made it.

He is in my Final Fantasy villain top 5 but he is not all that great I think.

chionos
07-03-2014, 08:21 PM
Greatest villain.

The Man
07-03-2014, 08:33 PM
The fascinating about Kefka is that his evil plan actually succeeds.

Kefka's plan was bringing endless destruction so he didn't succeed. That is like saying Sephiroth succeeded in his ultimate goal because he summoned a Meteor that actually even crashed down to Gaia. Kefka destroys every single seed of hope and happiness and Sephiroth wants to get more and more powerful. And none of them, though becoming stronger, finally made it.That simply isn't an accurate response to what metagloria said, though, because metagloria wasn't talking about what Kefka wanted to do in his final monologue. Kefka's "evil plan" wasn't initially bringing endless destruction; his original goals, as revealed in a monologue in the Magitek Research Facility, were "collecting Magicite" and to "restore the Statues". This is in direct contrast to Sephiroth, who had all of his goals about domination of the Planet from the start and never succeeded in them. Kefka only got the idea to "bring endless destruction" after succeeding in his initial goals and finding that victory was boring because people were "like insects" to him. Kefka is the only villain in the main series who succeeds in all of his initial goals, except arguably Emperor Mateus.

Sephiroth
07-03-2014, 08:38 PM
Except it is true. It is one story and he couldn't end what he wanted. Kefka wanted to restore the statues so the planet is devastated (succeeded) and he became stronger. Afterwards he also brought more destruction. Sephiroth wanted to summon a Meteor (succeeded) and wound the planet so he could get easier access to more power by the planet trying to heal itself. Both succeeded in one thing. Kefka just had destruction and then another destruction afterwards, whether it was by restoring the statues or not. It was still just destruction and nothing else. he succeeded in doing one of them and afterwards he failed again like all of them. Also his restore the statues plan is a mid-story plan like all villains have and succeed with (free the void, summon Meteor, absorb more souls for Trance, et cetera).

Also you are wrong. Caius is the one who succeeded the most in achieving his goal. And the following post won't change anything about it. Kefka's staue goal is a mid-story goal like all villains have one. And they all succeeded and failed in achieving THE goal, the things they have in mind when the final battle begins. Saying he succeeded in what he actually wanted is a wrong statement as his final goal was were not the statues but something he wanted in the end and all the time in general. Just like the others succeeded and failed as well. By the way, Kefka's action was very spontaneous so it is not like he did totally achieve the statue thing as well because he never stated a master plan with the statues, just that he wanted to restore them and not that he betrays Gestahl or anything which he did in a spontaneous moment after Celes hurt him. Kefka has succeeded and failed as much as the others.

The Man
07-03-2014, 08:43 PM
Kefka doesn't even mention "bringing ultimate destruction" until his final monologue, while Sephiroth is clear about his goals from pretty much the first time we hear him elucidate his motivations. Your assertion that Kefka's plans were this thorough from the start is made without a shred of evidence.

Also Final Fantasy XIII-2 is not part of "the main series", which does not include sequels.

chionos
07-03-2014, 08:45 PM
Except it is true. It is one story and he couldn't end what he wanted. Kefka wanted to restore the statues so the planet is devastated (succeeded) and he became stronger. Afterwards he also brought more destruction. Sephiroth wanted to summon a Meteor (succeeded) and wound the planet so he could get easier access to more power by the planet trying to heal itself. Both succeeded in one thing. Kefka just had destruction and then another destruction afterwards, whether it was by restoring the statues or not. It was still just destruction and nothing else. he succeeded in doing one of them and afterwards he failed again like all of them. Also his restore the statues plan is a mid-story plan like all villains have and succeed with.

Yeah, yeah, Sephiroth is the 1337est. Villains with personality suxxor, and clowns are scary. We get it.

Sephiroth
07-03-2014, 08:48 PM
Yeah, yeah, Sephiroth is the 1337est. Villains with personality suxxor, and clowns are scary. We get it.

I doubt you get that because I have not even defended Sephiroth. He was there for comparison. I could have easily used another villain instead.

_______________



Kefka's goal was to obtain more power and devastate the world. It was a complete success. He even ruled over the destroyed world for a year.


No it wasn't, that is just something you want him to be but it was not his goal more than Sephiroth wanted to summon his meteor and discussing this with this FFVI hype will not help you here because people are constantly trying to make Kefka something he wasn't and try to make something a fact they can't do. It was far from a success. Kefka never revealed a master plan about the statues and their destruction being his master plan or anything. He has proven to only be interested in destruction but not that the Warring Triad with its destruction was his ultimate goal. He poisoned a river, he was all "oh, I am all-powerful, I'll restore the statues", actually never showed that he really wanted to betray Gestahl up until the spontaneous and unexpected situation when Celes hurt him and he suddenly began to get mad, get more powers from the Espers, et cetera, but even though he showed he didn't like him in certain situations he never actually showed that part of his intentions was to betray him. Kefka was incalculable because he didn't actually have the statues thing as his master plan as so many people mean. He just did what he wanted. And in the end he revealed that he simply is of destructive nature and wants absolute destruction and THIS is the ultimate goal of a villain. The thing that someone achieves 5 seconds before the final battle and why you need to stop him or 5 seconds after you would lose the final battle. Kefka already has proven he does not think of it as reasonable to build something when everything will fade away and that it is of his nature instead to destroy every single piece of hope. And the final battle very well has shown that he was not satisfied with what he did so that was no more his ultimate goal than Sephiroth summoning his Meteor or Kuja's getting the Trance or X-Death getting the Void as none of them actually had summoning or getting that as final goal and Kefka had his statues also not as final goal. It was something he wanted and something he got but not the last thing and he never made it look like it was as his destruction continued since THAT was his goal. Destruction itself until the end. He succeeded in getting it not more than the others while the rest could not be gotten.



Sephiroth did not succeed. His goal wasn't to summon a meteor. The meteor was just his means of creating a giant wound in the planet(so the lifestream would be forced to gather).

Yes, it was a goal. Exactly the kind of goal you mention for Kefka. A mid-step goal on the way to the actual goal. Kefka = Statues for Destruction of planetary level, Meteor = Wounding Gaia => Using the power absorbed by the Warring Triad to eternally destroy everything without leaving them a chance to actually survive like a bad child that steps on someone's sand castle, Absorbing Lifestream = Becoming the ruler of souls.

X-Death: Mid: Free the void to get its power (achieved), Ultimately: terrorize everything by using that power and banishing those whose face he doesn't like to demonstrate his power (failed midway because of the heroes and because the void absorbed him and controlled his true form, the soul fusion until he was destroyed)
Kefka: Mid: Destroy in general, Restore the statues (spontaneous, he spoke about it but never actually mentioned he would do it that way and acted spontaneously when Celes wounded him), Ultimately: Destroy every single piece of hope, no matter how often it might appear (failed midway because of the heroes)
Sephiroth: Summon a Meteor (to become the ruler of all souls later) (succeeded), Ultimately: Use the impact of the Meteor to absorb the planetary energy that Gaia focusses to become the ruler of all souls (failed, not important however, as Sephiroth a) was able to absorb a great dal of knowledge even before summoning the Meteor when his soul travelled through the lifestream and b) after the ending he made the core of his existence indestructable as long as connected to certain memories so he can return to become more powerful later)
Kuja: Mid: Get the Trance (succeeded), Ultimately: Wants to take everything with him once he finds out he is about to die (at least did it in a way but as everything was restored also failed)
Kuja at least had no mid-step goal that was part of the ultimate goal but simply had his mid-step goal as ultimate goal at first but for the others the mid-step goal was a) a goal and b) a goal that also was a tool of what comes afterwards, their ultimate goal. Kefka never had the intention to stop destruction after he restored the statues so overall destruction of life, hope and all these things was his final goal in the first place and that reflects exactly what his nature is. His "goal he achieved" was nothing more than a tool such as Meteor or the void he got midway to continue with what he also wanted to do, and in his case it was the same thing he did all the time - destroying. Just that he now did in on a greater scale. And that is what he wanted and what he couldn't get in the end. He destroyed sume stuff but couldn't bring endless destruction until everything worth living is gone. This is the whole point of the "no matter how hard you try people will stand up again!" and "then I will destroy it again and again!" conversation. This was Kefka's real goal. Overall destruction until nothing was left.
Et cetera.



His goal was to obtain the god like power(much like Kefka). He was to absorb the lifestream and become godly powerful.

Sephiroth was like Kefka from the very beginning. He already had the Cetra's knowledge meaning the power to cast magic except ancient and sealed ones like Meteor. His ultimate goal was by far greater as he wanted to become the ruler of the source of life and death itself, the ruler of souls in general.



The party defeated him before he could succeed though. Kefka actually obtained the god-like power he was after. Hence why Kefka succeeded and Sephiroth failed.

Except he didn't. Mid-step goals don't count more than other mid-step goals. If the goal someone achieves mid-way is not the final goal for what you fight him in the final battle it is not the ultimate goal. Kuja wanted to get the Trance and he succeeded. That doesn't change the fact that he had a plan after that and which was by far more serious. Kefka was destructive in general. He achieved a tool of destruction but that was not his ultimate goal but simply one of his destruction goals, not actually worth more than poisoining a river which he also wanted or getting Espers or burning down things or anything. He wanted general destruction that would go on and he didn't succeed in doing so. Kefka lost as much as the others did and that he lived on a tower for a year doesn't change that he didn't get what he wanted as his real goal would be something pretty much endless as long he wouldn't destroy everything at once which he probably couldn't but that is something we don't know so it does not need to be counted. You need to learn to pay attention to context or such conversations will lead to nowhere, especially when you repeat as counter-argument to a problematic that does not exist something that was already mentioned by myself.. Kefka and Sephiroth did both succeed equally and no matter how much you hype Kefka he is not more than he is. Therefore, Kefka did not succeed. His statue plan was not his master plan goal, it was a mid-step goal just as summoning the meteor was. In fact the statue thing was even only mentioned once and he never actually did something before he spontaneously reacted to what Celes did to him. You might not like it, but it is the truth.

chionos
07-03-2014, 08:55 PM
Yeah, yeah, Sephiroth is the 1337est. Villains with personality suxxor, and clowns are scary. We get it.

I doubt you get that because I have not even defended Sephiroth. He was there for comparison. I could have easily used another villain instead.

{Understood}

NeoCracker
07-07-2014, 01:25 PM
Here is why I feel Kefka works so great as a villain, and this goes more towards those of us who played it when it came out, or managed to go unspoiled.

The entirety of this plot is being driven by the empires ambitions. You find out early on in the game, When you get to Doma, that a big part of how the Empire is acomplishing it's tasks is by employing a madman like Kefka. Someone willing to do horrible, and unspeakable things and lacked any kind of moral compass. Ghestal just aimed him where he was needed.

By Flying Continent, Ghestal feels its time to eliminate his pet as it were. However Kefka turned out to be to much for him. Ghestal basically grabbed on to a madman thinking he was in control, and let his greed and arrogance get the better of him, and Kefka basically went fully unchained with Ghestal's death. This was a huge twist, and from a more symbolic then plot stand point, it clicks that it really was Kefka you were fighting against this whole time. It feels almost as if Ghestal was just incidental in this whole mess. He strived for order and unity, the problem was the sadistic lengths he was willing to go to. You fought against the pain, suffering, and loss. To that end, Kefka is the perfect foil for your party in a way Ghestal himself just could't hope to be, as great a villain as he was.

Kefka isn't great just because of his funny one liners, or the threat he poses (Those are good reasons to though), it's because there are few villains that so perfectly embody what it is you party is fighting against.

Though he's only my second favorite of the series next to Kuja. :p

Wolf Kanno
07-18-2014, 05:35 AM
I don't know that I would definitively call him the greatest, but I would say that he is one of the best contenders for that title.

This is pretty much my feeling. He's definetly top three for the whole series imho though I sometimes feel that Golbez and Kuja are more well rounded. He is easily my personal favorite though.


http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130411192755/video-game-championship-wrestling/images/1/1c/Kefka_finalform.gif

The toned muscles totally add points to it. :bigsmile:

Not to mention the epic boner he's showing off from the thought of blowing shit up. ;)

Sephex
07-18-2014, 05:41 AM
...

GOD DAMNIT WOLF CANNOE I CAN'T UNSEE THAT S*** NOW

Wolf Kanno
07-18-2014, 06:13 AM
...

GOD DAMNIT WOLF CANNOE I CAN'T UNSEE THAT S*** NOW

58233

Fynn
07-18-2014, 08:25 AM
...

GOD DAMNIT WOLF CANNOE I CAN'T UNSEE THAT S*** NOW

You should be grateful :3:

I am so grateful! :flirt:

Bright Shield
07-18-2014, 08:56 AM
Except it is true. It is one story and he couldn't end what he wanted. Kefka wanted to restore the statues so the planet is devastated (succeeded) and he became stronger. Afterwards he also brought more destruction.

Kefka's goal was to obtain more power and devastate the world. It was a complete success. He even ruled over the destroyed world for a year.



Sephiroth wanted to summon a Meteor (succeeded) and wound the planet so he could get easier access to more power by the planet trying to heal itself. Both succeeded in one thing. Kefka just had destruction and then another destruction afterwards, whether it was by restoring the statues or not. It was still just destruction and nothing else. he succeeded in doing one of them and afterwards he failed again like all of them. Also his restore the statues plan is a mid-story plan like all villains have and succeed with (free the void, summon Meteor, absorb more souls for Trance, et cetera).

Sephiroth did not succeed. His goal wasn't to summon a meteor. The meteor was just his means of creating a giant wound in the planet(so the lifestream would be forced to gather). His goal was to obtain the god like power(much like Kefka). He was to absorb the lifestream and become godly powerful. The party defeated him before he could succeed though. Kefka actually obtained the god-like power he was after. Hence why Kefka succeeded and Sephiroth failed.



Though he's only my second favorite of the series next to Kuja. :p

This. Kuja is definitely the best. I just wish he wasn't wearing a thong...

Ayen
07-18-2014, 01:55 PM
Top ten, easily. I can't say for sure whether or not he's the greatest until I played more of the games in general to make more of a fair comparison.

metagloria
07-18-2014, 02:10 PM
Though he's only my second favorite of the series next to Kuja. :p

This. Kuja is definitely the best. I just wish he wasn't wearing a thong...
Listen, when you're trying to take over the world, you can't have things like rogue princesses and bunched-up underwear holding you back.

Spooniest
07-19-2014, 09:33 PM
Kefka's laugh is the pinnacle of RPG villains. End of story. (https://db.tt/3ti4hpyT)

Forsaken Lover
08-23-2014, 10:15 AM
It's great to have a villain with a sense of humour. With the possible exception of Jecht (and you could certainly argue he's not even a villain!) he's the only one that doesn't take it all so seriously.

Zidane: "Dregs of souls? You mean Mist!?"

Kuja: "First, you don't want to listen, now you start asking questions? Oh, brother...

Dagger: "Why, you-- don't you feel anything!? Taking the lives of so many..."

Kuja: "Spare me the lecture. Lives come and go all the time. What's the big deal?


Kuja: "Your mother isn't satisfied with just one continent! Her ugliness and stupidity are truly impressive.

Zidane: "You'd better keep your promise, Kuja!"

Kuja: "Of course. You needn't worry one bit."

[The four teleport out.]

Kuja: "Khehehe... What a bunch of idiots."[/i]


Also Kefka sounds pretty serious at the end there since apparently he delivers an entire monologue about how life sucks.