Evaluation of Ramza

[DarkBahamut]

I'm going to make this simple...

It is a very plausible opinion to say Ramza is the best hero in the entire Final Fantasy series.

[Fynn]

Yes.

[VeloZer0]

Until someone comes in and disagrees I don't know that we have much to talk about.

[Skyblade]

Thank you for that fantastic intro, Velo. Makes this so much easier.

Ramza is easily the worst hero in the series. He's the only hero who leaves the job half done. He undergoes character diminishment. I mean, let's compare him to Bartz. Bartz starts off as a wandering adventurer just having fun with his chocobo, then gets pulled into an epic plot to save the world from a crazed madman, growing up, finding friendship, etcetera.

Now look at Ramza. He starts off embroiled in a big fight for the fate of the world, then decides "Nah, I'm done", and runs off to go adventure with his chocobo, leaving that psychotic madman Delita on the throne, and leaves the corrupt church still in a huge position of power, regardless of Ultima's ultimate fate.

No other hero in the series would have been content to leave Ivalice in that condition, ruled over by a self-obsessed sociopath, with a tyrannical power base that clearly has no problems with persecuting and executing those who speak against them. Heck, that was pretty much exactly the sort of situation that served as Marche's wake up call to actually start acting heroically.

[Fynn]

Well, that's a very unfair comparison. FFV takes place in a much more idealistic, anime-ish fantasy world where the bad guy is an evil tree that you can just punch out of existence and it's over. This version of Ivalice is much more real in that one person cannot hit overthrow a whole government and expect everything to be okay because he has the moral high ground. And yes, even TA has a more simple world, because Marche knows it's fake and gets to know exactly what to do to get home.

Marche did a fantastic job. He did what he could. When he discovers the system he was raised in is broken he walks away, no longer able to look at the injustice. He later realizes that walking away just won't suffice and noticed that beneath the political struggle lies a far greater threat that he takes upon himself to stop and he does that. It costs him his reputation. He is well aware of that and doesn't care, ready to live in hiding as a heretic for what he did rather than expecting to receive any credit.

And you know, while Delita was vengeful and power-hungry, didn't Durai say Ivalice was prosperous under his rule? That's kinda the whole point of this story. If you want to out-stab all the back-stabbed and rule the world according to your vision, you have to bloody your hands. Ramza could never do that because he was too moral for that, while Delita no longer had anything to lose so he lost himself.

[Skyblade]

Ivalice is only different because Ramza gives up on it. He was capable of destroying the evil demon lords, he could have eliminated any other threats to the world or the peace. But he is convinced that the world is beyond saving, just as you are, so he gives up and leaves.

"Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing."

Ramza is a good man who looks on and does nothing. For that matter, so are the entire rest of his team. Ramza is a demon slaying beast, but we also have T. G. Cid, Agrias Oaks (who would have been one of my favorite characters were it not for the fact that she gives up her charge to a madman, leading to Ophelia's death), Reis Dular, Meliadoul Tengille. Need I go on with the list? Ramza not only has his own personal strength, he has an incredibly powerful group of supporters, both physically and politically, who would have backed him in making change. From one of the most important political figures of Ivalice to a reformed Templar who is dedicated to seeing the problems of the church wiped out.

You say it's a world where one man can't overthrow the government. You may be right. But, at the same time, this is a Tactics game. There is far more than one man here.

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."

And what happens? The good men fall apart and get hunted and executed for the rest of their days. All because Ramza decides that Ivalice is a lost cause.

Oh, and which Durai did you say claimed Delita had a peaceful rule? Orran Durai? Who was locked up from before the start of Delita's rule (real peaceful there, pity there were no good men to free him) and then executed as soon as he tried to publish his history, implying that he had no real chance to know what Delita's rule was like? Or Arazlam Durai? The historian who is only just uncovering the purges and rewriting of history that has gone on during Delita's rule?

[Lynn-Strife]

I will never gonna see Ramza as a coward because we see him leaving in the ending. For me, Ramza is the best heroe for many reasons.

"I have no wish to change the world."

He makes it clear that not wish to engage in the future of Ivalice, he just wants to save it. The world can not be changed, and will depend on their people if they want out of misery and darkness that has engulfed.
Yes, his mission was to save his sister but more than once turned his way to his sister to help save the world facing the Templars.
And to prevent Ivalice it was destroyed by demons, even had to kill their brothers with their own hands, give up their noble house ... if so many sacrifices are not worthy of a hero then do not know what form classify them.
Finally, once destroyed the demons seemed fair that Ramza leave Ivalice. This was the turning point because we see that he refused to take the throne or control of Ivalice, an act like that just makes someone who already saw how power corrupts the souls of men. Was time to leave Ivalice in the hands of who he thought would be incorruptible, a good king: Delita. Even if he never learned how wretched was his former best friend.
Thus we see it, Ramza is a righteous man, a hero, a nobleman of great heart, with the incorruptible power and glory. A simple man who just wanted to live in peace ... peace for which he fought and he deserved.

Sorry for the spoilers and my bad english. :)

[Skyblade]

The world can not be changed, and will depend on their people if they want out of misery and darkness that has engulfed.

Is Ramza not also one of those people?


Was time to leave Ivalice in the hands of who he thought would be incorruptible, a good king: Delita. Even if he never learned how wretched was his former best friend.
Thus we see it, Ramza is a righteous man, a hero, a nobleman of great heart, with the incorruptible power and glory. A simple man who just wanted to live in peace ... peace for which he fought and he deserved.

If he just wanted a life of peace, why did he choose a life constantly on the run from the church?

Also, if Ramza couldn't clue in to Delita's troubles, he's a bigger idiot than I thought. "I haven't seen my friend in years, and suddenly he's acting completely differently than I remember and behaving like a self-obsessed lunatic. But he must still be the same guy on the inside."


Sorry for the spoilers and my bad english. :)

No trouble at all with your English. Don't worry about it.