FF has some lousy heroes...

[Wolf Kanno]

Okay hear me out, this all started with a discussion I had with a friend about FFIV, he disliked the game whereas I adore it, so I asked him what it was he didn't like about it and after some various complaints we came upon the topic of how Cecil and his party are largely incompetent about stopping the badguys, basically Golbez outmaneuvers the group from the very beginning up until Golbez stopped being the antagonist. Now I ended up shooting back because his favorite FF is IX and frankly, Zidane's group utterly fails to stop Brahne, Garland or even most of Kuja's plan until the bitter end. Switch to FFVII, Cloud and AVANLANCHE never have a real success against Sephiroth until the very end, hell Cloud and his group are largely better at being terrorist by blowing up the reactors or sabotaging the Giant Materia mission but they never really succeed to do anything truly world saving until the bitter end. Both casts for FFV and FFVI largely fall for everyone of the villains traps, Yuna's group plunges into an ancient conspiracy and just make everything worse until they finally beat Sin, and Ashe and her group are playing to Vayne's fiddle for most of the plot. There is not really one set of heroes who ever accomplish anything truly good before the end except the NES entries and possibly the MMO entries.

So what are your thoughts on this ploy that is used often in the games?

[Ayen]

I'm used to wrestling storylines where the good guys get butchered until coming out on top near the very end of the feud, so it never bothered me that much.

[Ergroilnin]

Honestly I feel indifferent about that plot but I don't really know how to make better story in games like FFs. If you were to defeat the villian or stand up to him at every point of the story, then there isn't any build climax towards the end.

The only thing I don't like is like in FFIV where you think the whole time that Golbez is the main antagonist and in the very last 20 minutes of game it's suddenly "plot twist" that it was someone else. Now FFIX also has Necron at the end after Kuja but he really isn't the one who was setting the story in motion, as I understand it, he awakened when you and Kuja enter the crystal and destroy it so that's different situation.

[VeloZer0]

In FFT you are causing major problems for the antagonists for most of the game.

I don't know that you can have a story where you are constantly chipping away at the big bad and things are getting beter all the time. That would make the very beginning of the game the most desperate and lack any sort of buildup over the course of the adventure. The stakes have to rise as the game progresses, not shrink. Even in FF2 where you are constantly successful everything you do that is good is counterbalanced by something even worse happening.

[Formalhaut]

To be fair in Final Fantasy X all that goes wrong in the Pilgrimage (being branded traitors, basically from Macalania onwards) can stem from Yuna basically not revealing to anyone what she saw on the sphere, only to then head into a Guado filled temple and have that evidence destroyed!

[Mercen-X]

It's not a video game thing. As Velo said, there wouldn't be a story to tell if the hero instantly saved everyone. All stories at their core revolve around circumstances dictated by pure luck. Even the most skilled sniper in the world can screw up if the slightest variable perks up. A bird can fly into his sights as he's squeezing the trigger. His gun could jam. A powerful wind could blow him off his perch. Heroes aren't born, they're forged through a series of trials. Most of the time, these trials are marked by devastating and disheartening failure. A hero's defining characteristic is endurance in the face of adversity. The will to go on and try again despite the fact that previous failures may staunch most people's hope for success. The hero cannot lose hope because he shoulder's the hopes of those around him. Nevertheless, often a hero does suffer bouts of hopelessness. But that's why there can be multiple heroes. A close friend who is by the hero's side even if they never actually do anything else to really contribute.

If the heroes succeeded at everything they did, they would be the Power Rangers fighting the villain of the week.