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Pumpkin
08-11-2014, 05:22 PM
Depending which version you played, this young lady's name changes (like several other FF characters.) Which name do you prefer or use most?

I tend to use both because the version I played calls her Reina, but Lenna is also a pretty name

Spooniest
08-11-2014, 06:27 PM
I'm in the Lenna camp, solely because that's what I'm used to.

But I'm surprised nobody has voted "Who?" yet, as little love as FF5 gets.

Ayen
08-11-2014, 06:55 PM
Lenna is the only name I knew before now, so Lenna. I don't feel strongly one way or another though.

Vyk
08-11-2014, 07:21 PM
I usually hate literal translations and the purists who back them. Saying things like "The Japanese say it like this". Yes, but they were actually trying to say it the other way. They just can't. Or at the very least they can't write it that way

There used to be a few members on this forum who would always refer to Rydia as Lydia. And it drove me nuts at first, because I'd never seen her called that. When I stopped to think about it, it made so much sense. Of course they were trying to say Lydia. They just have no L in their language

That being said, Final Fantasy games tend to make an exception in my view on this. Possibly because of Rydia. So, Lenna and Reina are actually both fine with me. Oh the hypocracy...

I'm currently playing a fan-translated DS Rom of Tales of Innocence, and the main character is Ruka in Japanese. The translator made his name Luca for the translation. And apparently nobody else on the internet abides by that. They all call him Ruca. Which just sounds dumb when you say it. But his last name is something like Milda? And in Japanese it's Murida. I think it's ridiculous to do a literal translation of his first name, and then turn around and romanize his last name. Either he's Ruka Murida, or Luca Milda. You can't have both!

/rant

All-in-all, Reina is fine. But I would probably go with Lenna these days given the option, due to my understanding of how these things work. Something I wasn't privvy to when I originally played these games

Sephiroth
08-11-2014, 08:05 PM
I usually hate literal translations and the purists who back them. Saying things like "The Japanese say it like this". Yes, but they were actually trying to say it the other way. They just can't. Or at the very least they can't write it that way


Not always. Sometimes a name is just exactly what it sounds like. Lenna is Lenna. Reine sounds better for me but that is a mistranslation. There is a great difference between:

A name that has been used and not changed for the west, sometimes despite the sound seeming something different

- Yu-na was supposed to be Yuna and is exactly that.
- Se-hu-i-ro-su who is supposed to be Sephiroth/E-a-ri-su who is supposed to be Aerith/Ri-ba-su Se-hu-i-ro-su who is supposed to be Rebirth Sephiroth
- Su-ko-ru would would be pronounced like "Skol/r" or "Skaul/r" but is still supposed to be "Squall"
- Te-i-da who would be "Tida" but is always meant to be "Tidus"
- Za-kku-su who would be "Zaks" or something like that but is always supposed to be "Zack"
- Aa-ro-n who is pronounced like "Ahron" but is still meant to be our "Auron".

Some people who know or don't know Japanese often say "person xy is called this and that so that is their original name" but that is not true. Sefirosu was supposed to be Sephiroth all the time, Zakkusu was supposed to be Zack all the time, Earisu as Aerith because of her Earth connection, Tida as Tidus, et cetera. Words like Zakkusu or Sefirosu are only the Romaji version but not really the intented version of the name with our letters. The Romaji version helps us understanding the origin and pronounciation often but it does not mean it is their intended western name.

A name that has been changed in the West:

- Butz who is Bartz or Tina who is Terra

A name that has been mistranslated through missing information or such:

- Lenna as Reina
- Sarisa as Salsa
- Ultima Weapon as Atma Weapon
- Aerith as Aeris
- Force Bracelet as Fourth Bracelet
- Rebirth Sephiroth as Reverse -> Bizzaro Sephiroth
- Sepher Sephiroth as Safer Sephiroth

There is a difference between these things. Not that the changed versions or mistranslations never sound cooler for people, in fact many of them do for me, too. I like Tiedus better or Reina. But there is a difference between original intention that actually has been used and is still supposed to be, and changed version that does not matter and a mistake.

Dat Matt
08-11-2014, 08:07 PM
Final Fantasy V. The one numbered series I've not actually played.

Vermachtnis
08-11-2014, 09:38 PM
I always liked Reina. I dunno, Reina seems more princessey than Lenna.

Vyk
08-12-2014, 12:52 AM
- Te-i-da who would be "Tida" but is always meant to be "Tidus"
This one caught me. I was not aware of this. They have an S sound. If they wanted it to be Tidus, why wouldn't it be Te-i-da-su?

But on the whole, I'm not sure if my rant didn't make my point properly (not that I was honestly really trying to make one, just ranting) or if I'm missing your point entirely, because it really sounds like we're arguing for the same point. Then again, you'd have no way to know, but in a lot of your second examples, I completely agree those are bad localizations and not what I'd consider a good romanization or translation at all, so I think we agree on that

This does bring up the implication that maybe your point is that they really did mean for Ruka's name to be Ruca. But in my mind, and I may be quite mistaken, I believe this would insinuate that Lucca from Chrono Trigger (who I can only assume was also a Ruka in Japanese) would have always been intended to be Rucca

The only real issue I think we run into with ambiguou localizations are "Rydia, Reinna, and Ruka" type things where there's a few more options on what they're going for

But overall I completely agree with what you're saying

Sephiroth
08-12-2014, 12:59 AM
- Te-i-da who would be "Tida" but is always meant to be "Tidus"
This one caught me. I was not aware of this. They have an S sound. If they wanted it to be Tidus, why wouldn't it be Te-i-da-su?

But on the whole, I'm not sure if my rant didn't make my point properly (not that I was honestly really trying to make one, just ranting) or if I'm missing your point entirely, because it really sounds like we're arguing for the same point. Then again, you'd have no way to know, but in a lot of your second examples, I completely agree those are bad localizations and not what I'd consider a good romanization or translation at all, so I think we agree on that

This does bring up the implication that maybe your point is that they really did mean for Ruka's name to be Ruca. But in my mind, and I may be quite mistaken, I believe this would insinuate that Lucca from Chrono Trigger (who I can only assume was also a Ruka in Japanese) would have always been intended to be Rucca

The only real issue I think we run into with ambiguou localizations are "Rydia, Reinna, and Ruka" type things where there's a few more options on what they're going for

But overall I completely agree with what you're saying

I do not know why they chose these names except because of the original meaning. I only know they often chose a name with a different Japanese pronounciation that still is supposed to have a different sounding western name. Zakkusu also is meant to be "Zack" and Zack does not have an "s" sound and "Zack" very well is the intended name.

I have not yet analyzed the origin of all of Chrono Trigger's names but I can assure you the "l" and "r" difference is totally irrelevant. And if a Japanese booklet actually calls her "Lucca" she was meant to be Lucca.

Karifean
08-12-2014, 01:02 AM
Both. I know her as Lenna and I always will, but I very much like the sound of Reina. there's something about that "i" in the middle that's just very nice. Plus, you know, Higurashi.

Vyk
08-12-2014, 01:04 AM
I do not know why they chose these names except because of the original meaning. I only know they often chose a name with a different Japanese pronounciation that still is supposed to have a different sounding western name. Zakkusu also is meant to be "Zack" and Zack does not have an "s" sound and "Zack" very well is the intended name.


I have not yet analyzed the origin of all of Chrono Trigger's names but I can assure you the "l" and "r" difference is totally irrelevant. And if a Japanese booklet actually calls her "Lucca" she was meant to be Lucca.



Yeah, with names like Zack and Squall, they couldn't exactly be romanized literally and still make sense, and needed legit translation. But at least with those you could tell exactly what they were going for, so it was easy enough to figure out. Rydia presents a unique problem, because of course they want to give characters exotic names, and for them, Rydia and Lydia are probably both exotic. Yet for us only one of them is exotic.. Hm.. I can see why they went with Rydia now..

Edit: I guess it helps if someone on the Japanese team knows enough to give them an already westernized name

Very informative posts though. I thank you muchly. I've only really touched on learning Japanese. I gave up, but always appreciate the information

Sephiroth
08-12-2014, 01:08 AM
Yeah, with names like Zack and Squall, they couldn't exactly be romanized literally and still make sense, and needed legit translation. But at least with those you could tell exactly what they were going for, so it was easy enough to figure out. Rydia presents a unique problem, because of course they want to give characters exotic names, and for them, Rydia and Lydia are probably both exotic. Yet for us only one of them is exotic.. Hm.. I can see why they went with Rydia now..

The thing is, it is not that they couldn't have been romanized or anything. They could have been called Zaks or Skol or anything but they simply were meant to be Zack and Squall. I am currently scanning my booklet of Crisis Core.

http://www11.pic-upload.de/12.08.14/whuicwp4fjkl.jpg

Source: Crisis Core Final Fantasy VII Manual, Page 19, published by Square Enix in 2007

This is the Japanese version of Crisis Core. Zakkusu is not used other than Golbeza or anything. His name is Zack.

Vyk
08-12-2014, 01:12 AM
I can only imagine playing those games with those names lol.. But I get your point. It shouldn't just end with romanization, though sometimes that is all that is needed, depending on the intention. But they're also a perfect example of why I prefer Luca over Ruka. Even if Ruka is exactly what the Japanese intended, I completely understand and agree with the choice the translator made going for legitimate translation over literal romanization. Sadly there's no easy way to know for sureAlso, I thanked you in an edit, but being a perfectly new post makes a good chance to say thanks where you might not miss it. Thanks for all the informative posts :)