Verbal Abuse

[Forsaken Lover]

While a lot of people growing up with VII loved Cid and his foul mouth and "sit down and drink your goddam TEA!", it seems one thing people look at with mild discomfort once they get older is his treatment of Shera. As kids we just kinda laughed at the grumpy old guy who swore a lot but when you retrace your steps with a more mature mind, it comes off as rather horrible. Nothing justifies the way he treats her or the way he submits to being treated this way.

I hear this is a translation issue and Cid wasn't that horrid in the original but even still.... The only reason Cid isn't a piece of crap is his later 180 with regards to her.

[MJN SEIFER]

While a lot of people growing up with VII loved Cid and his foul mouth and "sit down and drink your goddam TEA!", it seems one thing people look at with mild discomfort once they get older is his treatment of Shera. As kids we just kinda laughed at the grumpy old guy who swore a lot but when you retrace your steps with a more mature mind, it comes off as rather horrible. Nothing justifies the way he treats her or the way he submits to being treated this way.
To be honest, I looked at it with discomfort as a kid as well.

[Mirage]

I actually can't really make myself feel too sorry for Shera. It's not like she was forced to stay as his assistant against her will or anything. There's got to be limits on how much shit she'd be willing to take from what professionally wasn't a wrong decision and that also happened like a decade ago.

[Pumpkin]

Its one of the reasons I dislike Cid's character so much. He's awful to her

[Psychotic]

Just gonna quote this from my article on Cid's theme.
He is a complete and utter jerk, but who on earth does not like Cid Highwind? Even those who dislike FFVII will not speak against him. Why is it that we find him so endearing? It is because, ultimately, he is a good person. Despite it all, he gave up his dream to save someone’s life. Visualise again. You’re in the cockpit and the countdown is getting closer to 0, to your destiny. “What am I…. what am I supposed to do?” is such an incredible line of dialogue. The cocky and confident test pilot reduced to this. Then the poignant “Oh man, outer space, the moon, my dreams….” hits home.

The grumpy and cranky Cid we all know and love… that’s not a curmudgeon, that is a broken man. His dreams have been shattered. It’s never stated in the game, but Cid has clearly experienced some form of depression.No, he shouldn't treat Shera that way but I don't hold it against him given that he sacrificed it all to save her - he is a good person at heart. He's just hurting and grieving for the dream he lost and lashing out because of it. I still think he shows signs of depression. So I pity him, I do not revile him.

[Wolf Kanno]

I was never bothered by it as a child or as an adult, Shera made Cid lose his dream and she felt bad about it and allowed herself to be treated poorly by him out of repentance. She could have left at any time but chose to stay behind and I always felt Cid knew it wasn't her intention to screw him out of his years of work and sweat but who the hell does a safety check during the launch? It should have been done an hour before he ever left and technically since he was only going into space, they could have waited for all the final checks to be done. To be honest the whole scenario feels a bit contrived.

[maybee]

Cid is one of my least favorite male characters because of this. It's rather domestic abusive.

[Jinx]

I've always hated Cid and don't find him funny at all.

[Spooniest]

He's a real garbage mouth, isn't he?

You get the feeling they were going a bit too far in the translation to make him seem like a "mature" character, but tbh, the game's characterization never gets beyond a certain surface level. We never, for instance, find out who taught Cid to swear...

I blame the schools in Midgar.

[Bubba]

Yes but Shera is a venereal disease-ridden whore. She deserved what she got.

Cid Highwind forever.

[Mirage]

I'm with Kanno on this one. The entire scenario seemed very forced, like they had to make up whatever sort of crazy idea for him to hate her for no good reason. The entire space program reeks of amateurness. No rocket scientist would even dream of being where she was anytime near the launch, and none of the crew or staff would hesitate even for a second with aborting the launch if there was a person in there. And lastly, no one would have aborted the entire program because of one delay. The entire thing is less realistic than motherfucking magic is.

[Forsaken Lover]

This is Shinra we're talking about and they are completely inept and useless so I find the whole rocket scenario feasible.

[Mirage]

But they aren't inept. You don't become the world's largest energy supplier by being inept. You don't become the world's most powerful military force and arms manufacturer by being inept.

[Ayen]

I seldom remember any of his scenes so that should tell you where I stand on this. I don't even remember Shera.

[Uchu]

I don't mind his character as a potty mouth and I was never bothered by it (or impressed for that matter), it was just how he was. Some people in real life use such terms like they're going out of fashion. However, now that you mention it, his anger is misplaced and unnecessary and in all honesty Shera doesn't deserve it at all.

So Cid's swearing, that's okay. His abuse to Shera, not okay.

I think the real issue is why Shera put up with his crap. She says she is in debt to him or something, for ruining his dream... but damn, he would have blown up if she didn't do anything. She cared that much for him she was willing to die. Cid should be alone, but she sticks around. I think the real issue is her mental state, but that's a psychology discussion that I would rather avoid as it touches on issues that women (and men) face in real life. Furthermore, I don't think there is such meaning to it in the game.

But the rocket scene is okay in my eyes, a little melodramatic, but okay within the realms of the story. Apart from the fact that it launched. It lifted off the ground, fire blazing, hovered, and then came crashing down and everyone, including Shera is a-okay. That's my main issue with the scene. I think she would be dead.

[Jinx]

I think the real issue is why Shera put up with his crap. She says she is in debt to him or something, for ruining his dream... but damn, he would have blown up if she didn't do anything. She cared that much for him she was willing to die. Cid should be alone, but she sticks around. I think the real issue is her mental state, but that's a psychology discussion that I would rather avoid as it touches on issues that women (and men) face in real life. Furthermore, I don't think there is such meaning to it in the game.



This. A thousand times this. I don't care if she "ruined his dream". She didn't. He'd be dead if she had not done what she did. So seriously. Stop justifying his treatment of her.

[chionos]

I think the real issue is why Shera put up with his crap. She says she is in debt to him or something, for ruining his dream... but damn, he would have blown up if she didn't do anything. She cared that much for him she was willing to die. Cid should be alone, but she sticks around. I think the real issue is her mental state, but that's a psychology discussion that I would rather avoid as it touches on issues that women (and men) face in real life. Furthermore, I don't think there is such meaning to it in the game.



This. A thousand times this. I don't care if she "ruined his dream". She didn't. He'd be dead if she had not done what she did. So seriously. Stop justifying his treatment of her.

Understanding isn't justifying. People are discussing all aspects of the relationship and its context. There are different types of abuse, different underlying causes, different ways to enact change, etc.

I think evidence points to Cid actually being mad at himself and taking it out on Shera, and she does her part in directing it at herself. It's an unhealthy relationship both ways.

But, then, are there any healthy relationships in FFVII? I mean, FFVII has a cast jam-packed with broken characters. It's poignant that the one true hero, of the lawful good variety, is killed off.

[Pumpkin]

I think as someone who has been through abuse, it makes it harder to be okay with his character. Sure I understand what he's doing. Doesn't make it okay. If he was a real person, if their relationship was real, it would absolutely not be okay, let alone having the guy be likeable. In the end she did what she did, FOR HIM. She was literally willing to give up her own life so HE could live his dream. And then he treats her that way.

I get that its frustrating to lose your dream when its right there in front of you, and I could even understand being that way for a little while after, but he just keeps going. He doesn't stop until after he finds out "oh yeah okay I see what happened here. Man am I a jerk haha"

And yes she stayed when she probably shouldn't have, but I can point you to racks of literature explaining that type of behavior and how common it is in abusive relationships. She thought she ruined his dreams and his life. Then he verbally attacks her constantly, lowering her self esteem even more, making her believe she is a complete piece of crap. So she stays because she thinks she deserves it. She honestly thinks she deserves to be treated like crap. And that is sad and twisted.

I know a lot of people will never agree with me on that one, and that's perfectly fine. At the end of the day, these are fictional characters. But to me he will never be likeable.

[Psychotic]

This. A thousand times this. I don't care if she "ruined his dream". She didn't. He'd be dead if she had not done what she did. So seriously. Stop justifying his treatment of her.Nobody's justifying anything. Even if they were, you don't have the right to tell them to stop.

Cid randomly kicks the walls for no reason, he's fixated and obsessed with what happened on past traumatic events, screams that he's so angry at nobody in particular and is snippy and agitated with everyone, not just Shera. Obviously she bears the brunt of it given that she lives with him, but he speaks to Cloud & co in the exact same way - and they hadn't "ruined his dream" or whatever. This isn't frustration that he can just get over. This isn't just anger issues or Cid being a jerk. These are not the behaviours of someone who is healthy and he was clearly struggling to interact with other people in a constructive manner.

I also think we saw Cid on a very difficult day for him. He's on edge because Shinra are coming to town, and he's desperate, anxious and nervous for what they will say about the space program.

Why do you think she lives there? Because the price of real estate in Rocket Town of all places is so unaffordable that she has to house share? I don't think people have grasped what the relationship between them is. Cid is mentally unwell and Shera is his carer. She's not downtrodden, she doesn't see it as abuse, she stays because she's looking after him. I'm sure it's not as black and white as that and she feels a sense of obligation due to the rocket incident, but I think it's primarily because she's a good person and trying to look after a friend who clearly needs help.

No, of course Cid isn't being pleasant to her. I don't think it's as easy to judge a carer - cared for relationship as that, though. I suspect he feels guilty for it and he doesn't really blame her.
"Shinra took outer space away from me and now you want to take the sky away from me too!?"He knows who is to blame really. And once he has the opportunity he goes on a revenge mission with Cloud and the gang to get back at Shinra. Which is kind of irresponsible of them when you think about it, but it works out well in the end I suppose. And at least Shera gets some well earned respite.

Oh, and no, Shinra aren't the most competent given that they have just one spaceship, one plane, one ship and one airship.

[Shorty]

Psychotic makes excellent points about Cid's character, all of which I agree with. I also think it's important to reiterate that Shera is his caretaker. She cares for him because she wants to and chooses to do so. As mentioned earlier, she isn't there against her will, she could leave at any time.

Painting Shera as a victim who isn't able to stand up for herself or know what's right for herself doesn't give her credit as a character, nor does it give her credit as a person. Think about the nature of caretaking people for a moment. Caretakers do not put themselves first. They do not do this because they are unknowing, weak people who do not understand the situations they put themselves in. They do this because they have a need to care for others more than themselves. To anyone outside a relationship between two people, it might manifest as abuse. That is because we project our own experiences onto their relationship in order to translate it into what we want to see it as, or to translate it as the experience we went through. It is clear that Shera is acutely aware of Cid's flaws as well as the fact that he takes them out on her, and that she chooses to overlook that. She likely understands that even though she herself made a mistake, Cid is the cause of his own happiness. It's a part of his nature as a person, and she understands that she will need to accept this if she is to remain a part of his life to care for him, which is what she chooses to do.

Responding to a person in the manner that she responds to Cid does not make them weak, it makes them strong. She knows that he needs her, he knows that he needs her. Does she deserve better? Yeah, probably. But she is there because she wants to be.

[Mirage]

But is there a lot of support of this caretaker scenario in the game's script? Is this something that was lost in translation?

[Shorty]

Does there have to be support for it in the game's script? It seems to me like a reasonable explanation for her character as to why she hasn't abandoned Cid with all of the abuse he rains on her. I thought we were all hypothesizing here.

[Jinx]

Well to be fair, people who say "if he's abusing you, just LEAVE" don't understand the psyche of an abused person.

Often times the confidence of an abused person is so shattered that they think they're not worth it or that they deserve the abuse. It's even in the script that Shera says that she deserves what he does to her and it's okay. Not to mention that she might have no where to go or no support system if she did leaves. There's much more at play than simply "she doesn't have to stay".

I'm not arguing for or against the caretaker/cared for suggestion, just saying that if this was a real person dealing with real abuse, it's much more complicated than "she wants to be there".

[Mirage]

Does there have to be support for it in the game's script? It seems to me like a reasonable explanation for her character as to why she hasn't abandoned Cid with all of the abuse he rains on her. I thought we were all hypothesizing here.

I dunno, while Cid seems to have a pretty short temper, I never got the impression that he is so mentally ill that he would need a caretaker. Like someone else mentioned in the thread already, it was a pretty bad day for him when we bumped into him for the first time. He might not be as bad as that on most days.

I'm not really as caught up in why Shera ends up staying around Cid, but more that I think the whole scenario leading to the current situation is... not very plausible at best, and that makes it hard for me to care too hard about the result of it. At least in retrospect. I might have been a bit more impressionable when I played it for the first time in my teens.

[Shorty]

I think you are taking the reference of caretaker too literally. I don't think anyone here has implied he's too mentally ill to care for himself, only that the bouts of rage he has are not those of a well person.

I was implying more of a sense of that she actually cares for him in a loving way (note that I did not say romantic) instead of a nursing, feed you from a spoon way.

[Jinx]

I was implying more of a sense of that she actually cares for him in a loving way (note that I did not say romantic) instead of a nursing, feed you from a spoon way.

Thanks for clearing that up. :up:

[Uchu]

snipInteresting idea, and definitely leaves food for thought. I never really considered it that way (or any way until this thread, to be honest). I do think Cid would be fine on his own though. If Shera was to leave him, he would be pissed off but he would do what he needs to in order to survive (but it would be tough for him as he would spend so much time feeling sorry for himself and blaming her). Basically, he takes her for granted.


What you said makes me think of a real life relationship I know of that shares similar traits, so I appreciate what your saying.



Because the price of real estate in Rocket Town of all places is so unaffordable that she has to house share?Oh, don't get me started :nonono: . It's a rip off. Had to settle for a tiny apartment in Kalm myself.






All this talk really makes my wonder if Square actually had intended for the relationship to have such deep meaning.

[Bubba]

Because the price of real estate in Rocket Town of all places is so unaffordable that she has to house share?Oh, don't get me started :nonono: . It's a rip off. Had to settle for a tiny apartment in Kalm myself.

Kalm has always been overpriced, to be fair. I know you guys will think I'm crazy but the rates in Midgar can be quite reasonable. There's a nice corner of Sector 3 where you can get a lovely two-up, two down for the same price as a one-room apartment in Kalm.