THE ULTIMATE DEBATE: Final Fantasy VI vs. Chrono Trigger

[Forsaken Lover]

Which is the true king of SNES JRPGs? I will finally be embarking on my Chrono campaign starting next month thanks to PSN and in the meantime I figured I'd see which of these two much beloved titles is more popular on this forum.

But hold! Seldom are things so simple as A is totally better than B. Let us examine different categories and see which game is better.

Better Story?

Better Characters?

Better Gameplay?

Better Soundtrack?

Better World/Towns?

I soon hope to be able to offer up opinions on all this once I have finally beaten CT.

Saying that EartHBound is the true king of SNES JRPGs is an acceptable answer.

[VeloZer0]

I'll get to this in the morning, but Earthbound is completely overrated and anyone who says it is amazing is only doing so because revering an obscure title makes them feel special. :colbert:

[Wolf Kanno]

Chrono Trigger is better, I'll get back to why later cause I'm mentally exhausted at the moment and don't feel like posting a wall of text.

[Pumpkin]

As someone who recently enough finished CT, I would say its hard to compare because they both just "feel" different to me, if that even makes sense. but I shall try

Better Story?
Ahh this is a hard one. I like both of their stories but I have to say I found VI to be more... interesting to me

Better Characters?
Going to have to go with VI for this one too. I didn't mind most of the CT characters but there were more characters I cared about in VI

Better Gameplay?
I think I preferred playing CT to VI. It was easier and I didn't have to input stupid button combos (Sabin :stare:)

Better Soundtrack?
No idea hahaha

Better World/Towns?
I preferred CT's towns. They were 'lighter' for lack of a better term and there were some pretty ones.

So a tie I guess, yaaaay :party:

[Bright Shield]

Chrono Trigger, but it's extremely close.

[VeloZer0]

Now that I think about it, my answer in each category is just about the same. FF6 as more involved and deeper, but at the same time a lot broader. CT used it's more limited scope to deliver a lot tighter experience. If I was to break it down by each element then FF6 would probably win the balance of the categories, but CT did a better job of putting all it's elements together and hence had a better overall gameplay experience.

Which is why I don't like thinking about the different elements of a game in isolation.

[NeoCracker]

Story
As for the over all plot... I'm giving this one to FF VI. Including atmosphere in this, the story of FF VI holds a lot more consistent weight and gravity then Chrono Trigger, though at it's high points Chrono does rise above it, such as Zeal. This was a really close call.

Characters
This one goes to Trigger. Chrono stands as my third favorite silent Protaganist next to Ryu of the Breath of fire games (BoF II and III's both win out). The history and story between Frog and Magus is wonderful, and really the rest of the cast, Marle being the exception, is fantastic. As great as teh FF VI playable cast is, trigger wins it for PC's.

As far as NPC's go, Trigger lags behind FF VI, though really neither one are great in this regard.

Villains goes to FF VI. As great as Lavos is as this force of nature the characters fight against, I just didn't feel the same urgency in that fight as I did against Kefka. And Ghestal was great for that first half of the game. Trigger comes close with some amazing arcs with Zeal and the Reptites.

Gameplay

This one has to go to Trigger. It's gameplay was not only better at the time, but has aged extremely well in comparison.

Soundtrack
...Chrono Trigger. FF VI may have the single best track, Dancing Mad, though triggers High points are just to many, my personal favorites being Frog and Magus's themes.

World/Towns
I think FF VI had the better world. Again, Zeal being the exception to Trigger, there were just so many unique and interesting parts of the FF VI world, a couple of the best examples being the Village of the Magi and the underground castle you find in the WoR.

On a whole, I give this one to Trigger. FF VI wasn't really far ahead in terms of plot and world, and while Trigger was slightly ahead in characters (Aside from Villains), the absolutely fantastic game play wins it. Were gameplay on par with FF VI, I feel it wouldn't have won out.

[Del Murder]

Final Fantasy VI is better. I'll describe why later because [excuse]

[Wolf Kanno]

Now that I think about it, my answer in each category is just about the same. FF6 as more involved and deeper, but at the same time a lot broader. CT used it's more limited scope to deliver a lot tighter experience. If I was to break it down by each element then FF6 would probably win the balance of the categories, but CT did a better job of putting all it's elements together and hence had a better overall gameplay experience.

Which is why I don't like thinking about the different elements of a game in isolation.

Now that I have had more time to dwell on this, this statement is pretty much where I am heading on this. I felt VI was more innovated and emotionally raw but CT kind of took what VI was doing and refined it into something really solid. The open ended final act in both games were a novelty only they really shared and frankly CT did a better job weaving it into a strong narrative for instance. VI is more of an experimental auteur type of game whereas CT was a more refined experience incorporating several of the same game design and story themes.

Trying to break the games elements down to categories and doing a comparison I often find that they come out pretty even in most regards and it largely comes down to which element you value more. For instance VI probably has more well written and emotionally driven characters but CT's full cast is actually very well developed all around whereas VI has a few people who could have used more screen time or better justification. Both games bring new elements to combat with VI focusing on making each character feel distinct from each other and incorporating experimental customization and interactive gameplay, whereas CT experimented with a system that focused on seamless transitions from dungeon, story, and gameplay with its novel encounter system and a combat system with heavy focus on party configuration and orientation in the battlefield. Both have their positive and negative factors so it really comes down to preference.

In terms of plot, I feel CT is better about consistency with a narrative that stays throughout the game whereas many people complain that VI's plot flounders once you reach the ruined world but to be fair to VI, it was always more of a character drama with the plot serving as an excuse to get them all involved whereas CT is both plot and character driven and imho well executed in this regard which is something Square and especially SE has been unable to recreate since. Still VI's story is more raw and doesn't shy away against brutality and mature themes whereas CT tries to stay a bit more family friendly even though the implications of the story are often fridge horror. So do you want raw passion or a refined subtle execution?

OST is much harder, on the one hand each game features my personal favorite track from each composer, VI is probably my favorite OST from Nobuo while CT is my second favorite from Mitsuda but both game pretty much do their jobs excellently so I can't really pick one over the other.

As I said it really comes down to what you want out of a game.

[Colonel Angus]

Super Mario RPG

[Bolivar]

One of the big reasons why FFVI never stood out to me is because I made the mistake of playing it after finishing Chrono Trigger. CT is a superior game in almost all of those categories, although the all-Nobuo soundtrack of VI might win out in the music department and I thought FFVI had superb customization and dungeon design, so it might also win out on the gameplay front.

You should know the King of SNES RPGs is Dragon Quest V, though, FL ;) Or Tactics Ogre...

[metagloria]

Chrono Trigger, and it's not close. I never played either in their heyday, so I'm judging both on equal terms from a later perspective.

[The Man]

Better Story? FFVI, and it's not close.

Better Characters? FFVI, though this is close.

Better Gameplay? Chrono Trigger. This isn't close either.

Better Soundtrack? FFVI, though this is also close. However, the three best songs either game features are all in FFVI (Dancing Mad, the opera, the ending theme).

Better World/Towns? FFVI, though some of CT's individual locations (Zeal) are arguably better than anything in FFVI.

I never played either in their heyday either.

[Forsaken Lover]

One of the big reasons why FFVI never stood out to me is because I made the mistake of playing it after finishing Chrono Trigger. CT is a superior game in almost all of those categories, although the all-Nobuo soundtrack of VI might win out in the music department and I thought FFVI had superb customization and dungeon design, so it might also win out on the gameplay front.

You should know the King of SNES RPGs is Dragon Quest V, though, FL ;) Or Tactics Ogre...

I know the DQ games have been going on for a while but nobody ever recommends them. I always assumed they were bare-bones RPGs with little plot or characters worth remembering and I'm primarily interested in JRPGs for plot/characters.

[The Man]

Dragon Quest V and VI actually have some pretty strong customisation options, though they're probably not as customisable as FFVI. They remind me of the job system, actually. Furthermore, the plot and characters of both games are pretty strong. I regard FFVI and CT as a step up from DQV and VI, but they're still worth playing and DQV is in my top five SNES RPGs.

[Forsaken Lover]

So CT, FFVI and DQV? That's 3. What are the other 2 out of curiosity?

[The Man]

Seiken Densetsu 3 and either Secret of Mana or FFV, depending on my mood.

[chionos]

Better Story?
Final Fantasy VI,
but only by a tiny margin, because Chrono Trigger's story is epic and fun and zany and wonderful in so many ways. FFVI integrates its characters into the story more, makes it a character-driven game. I like that. It's quality.

Better Characters?
Final Fantasy VI
This one, for me, is a little easier than the other questions. FFVI has the best ensemble cast of any final fantasy, of any game period, so there's not much of a contest. Nothing against CT's characters really, because I love many of them, but you just can't beat the FFVI cast.

Better Gameplay?
Chrono Trigger.
I like a lot of things about FFVI's take on the FF battle system personally, with each character having its own unique toolset to bring to the battles, but Chrono Trigger was even better. It was very satisfying, and I've always loved combined attacks which took CT's system up a notch. It's close, though.

Better Soundtrack?
Final Fantasy VI
Nobody's Nobuo.
Uematsu.
Brilliant soundtrack.

Better World/Towns?
Final Fantasy VI
I love FFVI's settings. Just love 'em. Chrono Trigger had some I liked, but nothing like what FFVI gives. Nothing.

[Forsaken Lover]

Didn't Uematsu contribute to CT's soundtrack?

Chrono Trigger as a whole seems like it was the sum of a lot of people's efforts. The plot was all written by various people and then combined into a whole, diffrent people composed the score, etc..

[Wolf Kanno]

Didn't Uematsu contribute to CT's soundtrack?

Chrono Trigger as a whole seems like it was the sum of a lot of people's efforts. The plot was all written by various people and then combined into a whole, diffrent people composed the score, etc..

Well technically VI was a group effort as well with two directors, about four confirmed writers and both Amano and Nomura worked on the character designs. Nobuo did the music himself though.

In CT's case, most of the OST is Mitsuda but he had was hospitalized towards the end of development thanks to an ulcer and Nobuo stepped in to finish the work though Mitsuda has said that a lot of the midi experimentation Nobuo had done with VI was used to help compose CT's OST.

[Vyk]

I played both shortly after their heyday. I got a second-hand SNES in like '96? Maybe '97. I think I even played them both in tandem. I got it over the summer and spent a couple months playing FFIV and attempting Secret of Mana and Super Mario RPG (didn't finish either of those), and then started FFVI and got CT that Christmas to round out my collection

I never finished CT either. I was over the whole silent protagonist thing. I hated the world map. The main characters were interesting, but nothing about them or the story really gripped me other than my love of Frog, but he couldn't carry the game for me. The gameplay to me was just alright, it seemed a little experimental to me though. I guess a lot of people like it for being untraditional. I don't necessarily like traditional battle systems simply for being traditional, but it's generally one of the better ways to go, as I did not like Super Mario RPG's participating battle thing. I guess it's because I don't really like encounters, and being forced to actively participate in them annoys me lol

The music was great in both, but CT just never drew me in other than that. I didn't find any aspect of it compelling. The plot was so disjolted by time travel I have trouble even recalling if there was much plot at all. But then, I haven't played the game since. And I've played FFVI a few times since. So it's possible the game just didn't jive with me as a juvenile and I may appreciate it more now as an adult. Obviously I missed out on a LOT. So I'm certainly not going to pretend that my opinion is definitive, since it is FAR from being an informed opinion. So I can't honestly say which is better. But I guess I prefer (or at least preferred?) Final Fantasy VI

[The Man]

Uematsu composed nine tracks from Chrono Trigger's soundtrack, although one of those was only a jingles. The songs "Sealed Door", "People Who Threw Away the Will to Live", "Tyran Castle", "Silent Light", "Underground Sewer", "Burn! Bobonga!" "Bike Chase", and "Primitive Mountain" are his work, as is the jingle "Mystery of the Past".

Noriko Matsueda also co-composed one track from the game, "Boss Battle 1", for which Uematsu provided the arrangement.

[Bright Shield]

Dragon Quest V is a great game. It's in my top 5 SNES RPGs, along with Chrono Trigger, FFVI, Mario RPG, and Lufia 2.

[Vyk]

Ow wow. Some Lufia love. They have a cult following, but the name rarely ever comes up

[Bolivar]

I know the DQ games have been going on for a while but nobody ever recommends them. I always assumed they were bare-bones RPGs with little plot or characters worth remembering and I'm primarily interested in JRPGs for plot/characters.

Going into DQV with this expectation is part of what makes it such a surprising experience. You could check out shion's Let's Play for reference.

It might just be the threads you visit, as I know many members here cite DQV and VIII as two of the best JRPGs.

[Pumpkin]

Oh my gosh yes, DQV is a wonderful game and I would highly recommend it to RPG fans

[Vyk]

The grinding requirement is what usually turns me off from trying DQ games. Grinding for a couple of bosses is par for the course, but grinding in every area just to proceed to the next area seems like it'd get old fast. Is that a stigma the game shouldn't have as well? Or maybe the battle system is fun enough make it worth while?

Or maybe there's a rom hack out there that re-balances some of them..

[Bolivar]

If you use your MP efficiently you can make it through each area and defeat it's boss without grinding. Worst case scenario you have to use a Chimera Wing to TP back to town and you give it another go but I never really "grind" in DQ games, as in pacing back and forth a high XP/Gold area. It's differect from FF where you really only use nukes and heals, and the generous gold allows you to stock up on near-infinite potions. DQ is more about resource management and seeing if you can complete each dungeon in one shot.

[Freya]

I'ma go with chrono trigger. I think VI was just too big. CT was able to keep me engaged longer and easier.

[Wolf Kanno]

If you use your MP efficiently you can make it through each area and defeat it's boss without grinding. Worst case scenario you have to use a Chimera Wing to TP back to town and you give it another go but I never really "grind" in DQ games, as in pacing back and forth a high XP/Gold area. It's differect from FF where you really only use nukes and heals, and the generous gold allows you to stock up on near-infinite potions. DQ is more about resource management and seeing if you can complete each dungeon in one shot.

This depends on the version, if you're playing the original versions, the XP/Gold given by enemies is much less than most of the ports. DQ is one of those series where the ports/remakes finally make them playable. In the GBA port for DQI and II you get nearly twice as much XP and Gold from enemies for instance reducing the need to grind whereas the original NES versions did require you to basically reach a new town and grind until you had enough money to purchase new equipment and gain levels before tackling the dungeons and then moving onto the next area.

[Spuuky]

I'll get to this in the morning, but Earthbound is completely overrated and anyone who says it is amazing is only doing so because revering an obscure title makes them feel special. :colbert:
Yeah, because Earthbound is so "obscure." Also, it's an amazing game, although it isn't better than CT or FFVI or DQV.


This depends on the version, if you're playing the original versions, the XP/Gold given by enemies is much less than most of the ports. DQ is one of those series where the ports/remakes finally make them playable. In the GBA port for DQI and II you get nearly twice as much XP and Gold from enemies for instance reducing the need to grind whereas the original NES versions did require you to basically reach a new town and grind until you had enough money to purchase new equipment and gain levels before tackling the dungeons and then moving onto the next area.Yep, and subsequently destroys the pacing of those games, but yes, no one likes "grinding" (by which I mean "playing the game").

[Forsaken Lover]

I like story in my games and DQ apparently has story kind of as an afterthought. It's there but it's basically "stop the evil wizard."

I had the DQ games summed up to me elsewhere as "unlike Final Fantasy which constantly strives to reinvent itself, DQ games are very same-y and yet they are always dependable."

[Bolivar]

I'm strongly recommending you just get over your preconceptions and download a rom. IV or V is my suggestion. VIII is pretty amazing if you can track it down.

[Spuuky]

DQIV and V are at least as story-driven as the FF games of the same era.

[Vyk]

So people's whining about having to grind is because they suck at strategizing turn-based combat in long dungeons and resource management. And then the grinding becomes just like any other RPGs where if you want to wipe out a boss completely you grind, or if you want a challenge, you just get there when you can. Is this the right idea? If so, then it has picked up a bad and unnecessary reputation. Because what you're describing doesn't turn me off

I may have to give them a try myself. Though jumping straight into an old-school game isn't what it used to be. Have any of these been decently ported or remade in a modern style to ease the transition?

[Forsaken Lover]

I was told all this about DQ's story just today when I brought up your guys hyping them elsewhere.

To quote

Dragon Quest games are not very plot heavy. The plots tend to be 'save the world from evil."

What I tend to say is that Final Fantasy games are about the characters, Dragon Quest games are about the towns and places you visit. The characters certainly matter (especially in certain games, like V or VIII) but the focus of the games is the places you visit and their trials and tribulations.

What they tend to be is just fun. They're certainly generic in that Dragon Quest is the template that all JRPGs are born from, but they focus on the sense of excitement and adventure instead of diving up their own asses. Even the most serious of the Dragon Quest games is still a lighthearted adventure story. They're certainly a bit samey, especially compared to the Final Fantasy franchise and its huge variety, but they're dependable.

For real though the plot isn't that deep but it's a very good not deep. It's just a fun story about four dudes beating up an evil wizard. There aren't any revelations about the meaning of life or anything, but it's a simple story executed in a fun way, and the dialogue manages to be funny and charming consistently. I definitely wouldn't call it barebones, the emphasis is just on the adventure itself instead of the grand reasons behind said adventure.
[quote]

[The Man]

They're wrong. DQV and DQVI are at least as plot-based as the FF games from the era. Definitely more so than FFV.

[NeoCracker]

In the case of V, I do think it's pretty plot heavy compared to other DQ's I've played, though there really isn't much focus at all on the characters. It does end up feeling as though story was an afterthought when compared to FF.

That said the story is still pretty damn good in DQ V.

[Wolf Kanno]

DQ tends to focus on plots while FF eventually became character driven and in both cases DQ does do stuff with characters but just not as well as FF; just as FF tends to have plot focus for some titles but often neglects it for character drama unlike DQ that stays more focus on their plots.

DQIV is more character driven than the NES era FFs, but its characters are not as fleshed out or interesting as say FFIV's. The big issue with DQ is that rarely do you really see the characters interact, for instance once the main character shows up in DQIV the other characters lose all personality and their stories are resolved in the driest way imaginable on the other hand, while FFV has a fun group of personalities running around its wacky story, DQV creates a more interesting narrative and often had more powerful character moments.

DQVIII has a great cast of likable characters but they lack the depth of other RPG characters that were more predominate at the time but they are still great characters. For me, DQ has always been a muted experience which lacked the emotional highs and lows of FF, though their stories tend to be much more clever than FFs. DQVII for instance is a much more clever time-travel story than FFVIII.

I think DQV was a great game for the 16-bit era and I really wish I had a chance to play it back when it was new but for me the game had some clever ideas and one really powerful moment but I feel it doesn't quite live up to the hype but that may be due to playing it out of context and I'll admit that. Its a great game but it didn't do it for me like FFVI or Chrono Trigger which were games that really stirred my imagination, DQV lacked "wonder" if that makes any sense and I was more impressed by DQIII personally.

[Bolivar]

I think we're talking in circles here. FL says he heard DQ isn't story-focused, the rest of us insist it is, and WK lets everyone know that he doesn't enjoy their favorite games as much as they do.

All I'll add is while DQ is not the in-your-face drama of FF, some moments and plot threads will jump out to leave an emotional impact. Again, I feel the stories are much more cohesive than FF and better at balancing humor with darker moments. The storytelling is much more nuanced than pixel sprites sacrificing themselves at fixed intervals throughout the plot.


So people's whining about having to grind is because they suck at strategizing turn-based combat in long dungeons and resource management. And then the grinding becomes just like any other RPGs where if you want to wipe out a boss completely you grind, or if you want a challenge, you just get there when you can. Is this the right idea? If so, then it has picked up a bad and unnecessary reputation. Because what you're describing doesn't turn me off

I may have to give them a try myself. Though jumping straight into an old-school game isn't what it used to be. Have any of these been decently ported or remade in a modern style to ease the transition?

I'm not callous enough to say people hate things because they suck at them but it goes like this. When you enter a dungeon, you have finite health and limited items and MP to replenish it. Sounds obvious, except you don't have the potion hordes of other games, MP-replenishments are near non-existent, and, in combat, your characters can only use the items they have on them in their 8 slots. Some monster group combinations are pushovers, while others require you to utilize low-cost spells and choose targets efficiently to minimize the HP you lose per battle. If you can do this while avoiding traps and solving puzzles quickly, you can then blow your MP load on nukes and buffs to vanquish the boss in one dungeon run. This all sounds incredibly generic and expected but what sets DQ apart is how perfectly balanced and finely-tuned everything is (the targeting mechanics are another differentiator). Its rewarding "easy to learn, hard to master" philosophy is the secret to its cross-generational mass appeal in Japan, along with charming worlds and clever puns.

I'd recommend you start with DQVIII as it's the consensus gateway drug. Be advised some areas might seem grindy but it's a very long story with a massive (and gorgeous) open world which expects you to enjoy exploration and rewards you for following your curiosity.

[Wolf Kanno]

I think we're talking in circles here. FL says he heard DQ isn't story-focused, the rest of us insist it is, and WK lets everyone know that he doesn't enjoy their favorite games as much as they do.
.

I will use this opportunity to point out that we have another lovely thread (http://home.eyesonff.com/showthread.php/159019-Dragon-Quest-Vs-Final-Fantasy-Head-to-Head!)to debate the merits of DQ vs FF ;)

With that, I would say move that conversation over there and let's get back on topic here. :wcanoe:

[Forsaken Lover]

I am enjoying what I played of Chrono Trigger so far more than I enjoyed what I played of FFVI.

Characters not really impressing me a whole lot yet but I guess there's a lot of room for improvement there. WitH VI the characters all kinda started out strong, especially Cyan. Here, I get the feeling I'll be waiting for a while before anyone gets any serious development.

I like the music a lot more in CT. FFVI only had Terra's Theme and Slum Shuffle. Oh and the boss battle music. CT though, I've loved every piece of music I've come across.

Interesting note now I have actually played some of Trigger is that it doesn't actually even have towns in the conventional sense. I'm glad in my OP I made sure to specify the world as a whole because comparing towns doesn't work.

[Wolf Kanno]

Yeah it doesn't, CT really shook things on its head with how they approached towns and battles. VI stumbled on using the same sprites for combat and exploration which created less jarring transitions between the two but I'm pretty sure the team was looking at trying to incorporate the seamless transition found in Secret of Mana which had a perpetual world and no true random encounters either.

[Bolivar]

A lot of CT's best character moments happen near the end of the game for me.

[Forsaken Lover]

All I can say is that Kefka? He's no Magus.

1Dyw5hvMeUU

[The Man]

That's true, because unlike Magus, Kefka actually is a complete monster.

[Vyk]

He also doesn't join your party o.O