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Forsaken Lover
08-23-2014, 10:27 AM
The FFX party remains the only one in FF history who didn't aid the villains in screwing over the planet.

(being sincere)
Good job good guys.

Ayen
08-24-2014, 02:09 AM
I'm so proud.

Colonel Angus
08-24-2014, 02:37 AM
Tidus kept attracting Sin to various locations where thousands of people were killed.
Hey, crybaby! Look, I just killed Clasko. What? Are you going to cry about it?

Dante WolfWood
09-08-2014, 03:15 PM
Well, there is the fact that they broke the only way to temporarily stop sin without having a permanent solution at the time...

I'd say that's pretty irresponsible and reckless. ESPECIALLY if Seymour had successfully became sin.

Yeah the FFX team is the worst.

Ergroilnin
09-13-2014, 09:17 AM
Well, there is the fact that they broke the only way to temporarily stop sin without having a permanent solution at the time...

I'd say that's pretty irresponsible and reckless. ESPECIALLY if Seymour had successfully became sin.

Yeah the FFX team is the worst.

Considering the Sin was around for 1000 years and been defeated only 5 times before Yuna and the calms being as short as 1 years or so (Braska's calm), I never understood the reason to need get rid of Sin ASAP.

Obviously Sin isn't there to annihilate everything alive and as long as there aren't any dangerous machina or way too many people in one place, even if there was no more way to kill Sin, it really wouldn't be much of a difference I say,

Dante WolfWood
09-13-2014, 07:01 PM
I doubt it was only 5 times. There was at least 5-6 high summoner statues in each temple (I know some are just copies but not everyone) and knowing that Yuna already started her pilgrimage right after her father shows there was at least for more than just 5. I'd like to think there was at least 10, perhaps even 20.

Yet, that still ignores the fact that letting Seymour become Sin would have been devastating. Sin was only slightly dormant because of Jecht and his influence. Could you imagine if Seymour succeeded in becoming sin, with no way of destroying him and letting someone else become sin?

Sephiroth
09-13-2014, 07:22 PM
Obviously Sin isn't there to annihilate everything alive ...

He wasn't there for that but he got out of control.

Ergroilnin
09-13-2014, 08:06 PM
If Seymour indeed did become Sin then yes, with his philosophy it would be end of all life on Spira.

When Sin got out of control he was always provoked, Mi'hen Operation, attack by main party etc.

When he attacked the ship or Kilika sure he was scarily powerful but he didn't obliterate those.

And I am pretty sure it was just those five high summoners, there is no mention of any other and no other indication of them.

Neptunia
09-13-2014, 11:35 PM
first five High Summoners? i thought there was only 4 including Braska before Yuna took out Sin.

Sin was meant to be a armour for Yu Yevon, made with massive amounts pyrafles and gravity spells.
when Yu Yevon died and lost control Sin went off on 3 directives it was programmed with. destroy all technology above a certain level. if too many people came together to reduce those numbers and to defend itself with lethal force on being attacked.

it also went for the sin spawn that dropped off its body as they were already large masses of pyraflys.

during the game events Jecht is able to effect sin from within, reducing the carnage.

Ergroilnin
09-13-2014, 11:50 PM
first five High Summoners? i thought there was only 4 including Braska before Yuna took out Sin.

Yunalesca
Gandof
Ohalland
Yocun
Braska
Yuna

So six in total.

Dante WolfWood
09-14-2014, 12:17 AM
Well what about all those statues in Remiem temple? If we go by the statue logic, there would be at least 10-20 high summoners.

I just believe only 5 were named because that's what the story demanded. I believe it was implied there was a lot more.

Sephiroth
09-14-2014, 03:32 AM
When Sin got out of control he was always provoked, Mi'hen Operation, attack by main party etc.


Your post almost sounds like "Sin is not dangerous as long as no one acts. Like a bee."

After Yevon's Self died within Sin from it being too much only the Fayth of the High Summon was able to control itself partly. And everytime Jecht was not able to do that, Moby rampaged. Sin is there to guard Zanarkand but it is unleashed so it roams around destroying whatever and not just progress as long as Jecht cannot control himself. That was the very being of what was left of "Sin's program" and without Yevon there was no actual limit for Sin. Jecht even wanted to show Tidus what happens when he is not in full control. Not just in Mi'hen, Sin also attacked Zanarkand. Jecht went there to get Tidus but in the end Sin still destroyed Zanarkand. There was no provocation though and Jecht himself in control does not kill people so the mindless killing is the animal that does what it does no matter if provoked or not. It was a constant threat, which is the very reason why Yoshinori Kitase even compared his return in Will to Sephiroth who is also a recurring element that is a part of Final Fantasy VII. Sin is pretty much comparable to a force of nature. Yevon made a mistake by summoning Sin to guard the manifest of memories and destroy every possible danger but it did cost his life, leaving only the rest of what remained of his will was behind to resummon Sin and at least somehow still give Sin the original instinct - which was no longer the only thing it followed by destroying stuff - and so Sin was free and immortal.

Ergroilnin
09-14-2014, 01:28 PM
No, what I am trying to say is that Sin doesn't go around randomly shooting gravity attacks that destroy half of Spira and attract Moon normally.

As have been said, Sin that is now just summoned without consciousness from the empty shell of what was Yu Yevon is simply programmed to protect Dream Zanarkand (and he attacked it only thanks to Jecht, to what extent it was Sin and Jecht that actually destroyed half of the city, who knows), destroy big dangerous machinas and keep killing big formations of people so DZ cannot ever be threatened.

It's also obvious enough that Sin normally isn't so aggresive, it doesn't even really attack Bevelle and Luca, if crusaders can protect those cities, the Sin isn't really trying. It probably just swims in the endless seas for the most time being relatively harmless.

Since Sin been around for so long and been dead so little yet the Spira is still around, even if there was no way to kill it, it would be as you called it, more like force of a nature, you can't really kill tsunami or hurricane and they kill and destroy cities as well.

So really without Seymours intent to kill all Spira with Sin, it wouldn't really matter that much.

Sephiroth
09-14-2014, 08:22 PM
(and he attacked it only thanks to Jecht, to what extent it was Sin and Jecht that actually destroyed half of the city, who knows)


We know that Jecht as no will and intention to destroy cities as he is no bad person and "when he cannot control himself" that is not him (in terms of his consciousness and will) but Sin (you could say similiar to JENOVA in Final Fantasy VII which is also an instinctive being and only one person actually was fully able to control what lived of it in him). Sin is a part of Jecht, so the instinctive part and so basically the "Sin is Jecht" is true of course that is true but those are instincts he does not want with his consciousness and so he controls them. He cannot though and so he at least shows Tidus that he has to end it. That also means, while Sin with Jecht in control was swimming to Zanarkand it was not Jecht (as you might notice I always say "Jecht" when I talk about the conscious person which is right) who actually destroyed it as Jecht himself does not accept that urge to destroy as a part of his body and so the animal itself breaks through without him. I think you very well know Jecht is not a bad person and that was surely not your point. I just point it out to show you that the person that Jecht is, self-aware and conscious of his own Self would never do that. He visits Tidus with the thought of "look what happens when you don't stop Sin" and that means as long as he intends to go to Tidus he is to blame a bit but while it was his intention to prove Sin is not good for Spira it also shows that he actually did not do it. It is a part he cannot resist and it will kill Jecht himself eventually to only leave Sin itself behind. That threat was the very reason to stop him. People being lucky that Sin didn't attack some cities is no guarantee that this would go on forever as Sin itself does no longer just act as intended by Yevon.



It's also obvious enough that Sin normally isn't so aggresive, it doesn't even really attack Bevelle and Luca, if crusaders can protect those cities, the Sin isn't really trying. It probably just swims in the endless seas for the most time being relatively harmless.

Since Sin been around for so long and been dead so little yet the Spira is still around, even if there was no way to kill it, it would be as you called it, more like force of a nature, you can't really kill tsunami or hurricane and they kill and destroy cities as well.

So really without Seymours intent to kill all Spira with Sin, it wouldn't really matter that much.

That still sounds to be like the bee comparison. Sin is okay and no problem as long as no one acts - but that isn't true. It was an incalculable threat and Jecht knew that which was why he said he will think about something to finally destroy it in the first place as an unleashed Sin cannot be lived with without being scared of that fore suddenly appearing and ending your life. A force of nature is a bit more than just something to be provoked (Sin still is provoked, I do not disagree here, I just say Sin is more).

Jessweeee♪
09-14-2014, 10:04 PM
what did those people in kilika do to sin :<

Ergroilnin
09-14-2014, 10:35 PM
...

Yeah I by no means meant that Jecht wanted the destruction.

I guess my point may be a little different than what it may seem. What Jecht, Tidus, Yuna and all the others brought, Eternal Calm, is great and really relieved the sorrow of Spira.

I was just pointing out that if for some reason there was no more Final Summoning (let's say Yunalesca turned into fiend and couldn't make fayth anymore), the only real change for Spira would be that there is no hope of having at least short Calm and there wouldn't be any pilgrimages, summoners and guardians anymore. So Spira would have to accept Sin as somewhat force of nature and summoners would be just senders.

I mean there were hundreds of years between Sin defeats most of time, whole generations were born, lived and died without ever having Calm. And I am pretty sure that during those hundreds of years, Final Aeon consciousness faded from all previous incarnations so Sin was running around in his "default" setting.

Then again who knows, one hundred year from now Sin could have gone insane for one reason or another and just kill everything anyway, but considering such scenarios doesn't really matter, meteor could strike the Spira earlier, kill everything as well, etc.