PDA

View Full Version : Ultimecia's Power



Evol
09-29-2014, 11:54 PM
I think Ultimecia's power is the power to control time and space.
In physics space and time are closely connected,they call it Spacetime.
She can manipulate spacetime, but there must be a limit or certain conditions in order to use her power to full extent.
Ellone must be the key to unlock her "true power".


This is the power she used in the story :
- Teleportation.
- Passing through matter (door and floor).
- Possessing someone.
Using Edea's Ice Magic.
- Uses time-based spells, such as Haste, Slow or Stop.
- Giving Life to objects (Trauma,Krysta).
If she can do that why she's afraid of death.
- Change a GF into a monster (Tiamat).
- Good at technology (unlocking Adel's Seal from space station and Adel's Tomb).
- Controling Rinoa at the ceremony.
- Filled with anger and hate. Those emotions must be the source of her power too like love for other people.
- She has the knowledge of the past events.
She knew Adel was in the outer space.
But why would she even bother with SeeD's Secrets?
- And ultimately cast Time Compression Magic.


But even with all that there must be something else that we don't notice.
She demonstrates many abilities outside space and time power.


Do you think she also has the power to brainwash/manipulate people?
she casts a fascination spell to the people on the parade.




What is the "Purpose of Time Compression" anyway other than being used for Ultimecia's desires?


So what do you think is the "True Nature" of Ultimecia's Power?

Mirage
09-30-2014, 01:21 AM
Was it actually suggested that Ultimecia can bring with her her own powers to the past when she possesses people through time? I always figured passing through stuff just was one of Edea's own powers.

Also, even if ultimecia can bring life to monsters, that doesn't mean she can bring herself back to life if she dies. She was alive when she gave life to other things. We don't have anything that indicates that she can perform magic while she is dead.

Evol
09-30-2014, 01:39 AM
Was it actually suggested that Ultimecia can bring with her her own powers to the past when she possesses people through time? I always figured passing through stuff just was one of Edea's own powers.

Also, even if ultimecia can bring life to monsters, that doesn't mean she can bring herself back to life if she dies. She was alive when she gave life to other things. We don't have anything that indicates that she can perform magic while she is dead.

Well Her power is controlling time itself so i don't see why she can't do something like that
Also Sorceress and their powers are the same thing.
Ultimecia can't be a sorceress without her power.
Passing through object is definitely her own power because edea's power is ice based.

Life or Death are irrelevant when you can control time and space. For example she can send the magic "life" through time to herself in the future when she died to revive herself.But that's kind of stretching it a bit.

Mirage
09-30-2014, 01:47 AM
Was it actually suggested that Ultimecia can bring with her her own powers to the past when she possesses people through time? I always figured passing through stuff just was one of Edea's own powers.

Also, even if ultimecia can bring life to monsters, that doesn't mean she can bring herself back to life if she dies. She was alive when she gave life to other things. We don't have anything that indicates that she can perform magic while she is dead.

Well Her power is controlling time itself so i don't see why she can't do something like that
Also Sorceress and their powers are the same thing.
Ultimecia can't be a sorceress without her power.
Passing through object is definitely her own power because edea's power is ice based.

Life or Death are irrelevant when you can control time and space. For example she can send the magic "life" through time to herself in the future when she died to revive herself.But that's kind of stretching it a bit.

I don't think we see enough out of Edea's powers to determine that her magic is "ice based" and nothing else.

-edit-
Actually, we do. Her standard attacks involve telekinesis, so we know she's at least got that.

Evol
09-30-2014, 01:53 AM
She only uses that power when Ultimecia possessed/controlled her

Mirage
09-30-2014, 02:04 AM
Which power are you talking about now? If we're still on telekinesis, she has access to that power when she briefly joins your party.

Evol
09-30-2014, 02:14 AM
Ultimecia's power is ALWAYS spacetime.Passing through object is definitely one of it's ability.
When Edea is in our party it is nothing more but gameplay system.
Because Edea has lost her sorceress power after she got defeated by Squall at Galbadia Garden.
Zell comfirms it at Ragnarok. He said Edea is no longer a sorceress.

Mirage
09-30-2014, 02:26 AM
Attack animations don't have anything to do with gameplay systems. They could have made her walk over and slapped the enemy instead, but they chose to give her a telekinetic attack.

Evol
09-30-2014, 02:31 AM
Then what about the fact that she has lost her sorceress power when she joined Squall's party?
IT IS just a gameplay system created for this occasion.

Sephiroth
09-30-2014, 11:17 AM
Ultimecia has no knowledge of what has happened because she is not really immortal. She can control the powers that were given to Edea by Future Ultimecia but her consciousness still dies. Ultimecia is only aware of a few events but does not actually know the full event chain which is the very reason why she wonders about stuff her future self has already lived through. She does not event know what Edea knows because when she is in control of her body Ultimecia cannot make use of Edea's memories. She is stuck in an event cycle that is doomed to fail. A cycle she does not want to be repeated but she cannot do anything about it.

-Ultimecia is conscious of a time period in which her powers are inside of the body of someone else. She experiences that time and makes it her present this way. Ultimecia has also full use of the powers a witch possesses, no matter what Edea can do now or not. Ellone is supposed to be used by her because she wants to project her consciousness even further into the past and so combine Past, Present and Future by making it her own present. Technically something that could never be fully done but let's ignore that. She never succeeds to fully kill everything anyway.
-Ultimecia can control other people this way, normally by making them unconscious and projecting her own consciousness and self to animate this body.
- Sometimes the game makes no difference and speaks like she just corrupts people in terms of "they are not themselves" in a metaphorical way were you just have changed so much and that would also be possible because of Ultimecia's power which would mean people are actually conscious but are corrupted and bound to Ultimecia's command while she actually watches - most of the time she actually acts herself though, still she can also use that trance like she did with Rinoa. Her power to control can be broken as well but it cannot be simply gotten rid of which is why Edea feared that Ultimecia would use her again and why Edea had enough time to build the Balamb Garden before Ultimecia controlled her and knew what exactly was going on. Ultimecia transferred herself into Rinoa though which is why she didn't use Edea anymore. That does not mean she is limited to one person to possess though as she also wants Ellone.
- She can materialize thoughts such as Griever which means she can partly control reality in another way. Whether she has that from other Witches at that point or not is not really relevant. It even is a bit similiar to Draw as G.F.s are an energetic and psychic lifeform unit but it was never explained what exactly is the nature of a G.F. and how they fully start to exist so it might be a different form of magic like the living matter spell that she uses with Edea's body.

And Edea is a witch all the time. Edea's body had the power of two witches. The one she got when she was 5 and Ultimecia's when she was like in her 20s and Ultimecia was forced to give her power away after Squall and the others killed her. You cannot actually decide to not give your power away. Your body forces you to do so. That is explained in the Ultimania. In Ultimecia's case it was just convenient.

Evol
09-30-2014, 12:18 PM
Ultimecia has no knowledge of what has happened because she is not really immortal. She can control the powers that were given to Edea by Future Ultimecia but her consciousness still dies. Ultimecia is only aware of a few events but does not actually know the full event chain which is the very reason why she wonders about stuff her future self has already lived through. She does not event know what Edea knows because when she is in control of her body Ultimecia cannot make use of Edea's memories. She is stuck in an event cycle that is doomede fail.

Rinoa seems to know Her thought/motive when Ultimecia possessed her.
She learned that Ultimecia is trying to achieve Time Compression.
And Edea knows Ultimecia's Heart is full with hate and anger.
I don't see why Ultimecia can't do the same thing to them.



- Sometimes the game makes no difference and speaks like she just corrupts people in terms of "they are not themselves" in a metaphorical way were you just have changed so much and that would also be possible because of Ultimecia's power which would mean people are actually conscious but are corrupted and bound to Ultimecia's command while she actually watches - most of the time she actually acts herself though, still she can also use that trance like she did with Rinoa. Her power to control can be broken as well but it cannot be simply gotten rid of which is why Edea feared that Ultimecia would use her again and why Edea had enough time to build the Balamb Garden before Ultimecia controlled her and knew what exactly was going on. Ultimecia transferred herself into Rinoa though which is why she didn't use Edea anymore. That does not mean she is limited to one person to possess though as she also wants Ellone.

Her powers can also effect other people's minds like a fascination magic she used to the crowd.
What does that have anything to do with Her spacetime magic?


- She can materialize thoughts such as Griever which means she can partly control reality in another way. Whether she has that from other Witches at that point or not is not really relevant. It even is a bit similiar to Draw as G.F.s are an energetic and psychic lifeform unit but it was never explained what exactly is the nature of a G.F. and how they fully start to exist so it might be a different form of magic like the living matter spell that she uses with Edea's body.

Griever's existence is still not clear,whether Ultimecia created it out of nowhere/from Squall's mind or it is pre-existing and she just summons it like Squall summons his own GFs .English and Japanese versions have different "scans" about Griever.


And Edea is a witch all the time. Edea's body had the power of two witches. The one she got when she was 5 and Ultimecia's when she was like in her 20s and Ultimecia was forced to give her power away after Squall and the others killed her. You cannot actually decide to not give your power away. Your body forces you to do so. That is explained in the Ultimania. In Ultimecia's case it was just convenient.

Yeah Edea is still a sorceress after we defeated her because she only giving Rinoa Ultimecia's power and not hers.

Sephiroth
09-30-2014, 01:29 PM
She never charmed the crowd, they were naturally fascinated as they thought she is on their side and she even talks about it. She charmed Seifer and only by bringing his already existing desires on the surface with her magic.

Also she has no spacetime powers. Only her past gaze. She uses that in combination with Ellone to cause TC. Nowhere else greater magic than normal time magic is mentioned and it is unnecessary because her powers are good enough already.

Edea herself planned to get unconscious and sacrifice herself so Ultimecia didn't know about the SeeDs and their purpose so she needed Squall for interrogation. To be more precise, her mind powers are only as good as the story wants. Sometimes she can do stuff and sometimes not. It is never explained that Ultimecia can USA other memories if she uses their consciousness and not just her own. Only that Edda was unconscious and didn't know what happened but felt Ultimecia a bit so she knew about her.

Griever's state is mentioned multiple times as fictional and explained in the Ultimania so any doubt is unnecessary. Also the English text is not reliable, the Ultimania and the original Text is.

Evol
09-30-2014, 03:13 PM
She never charmed the crowd, they were naturally fascinated as they thought she is on their side and she even talks about it. She charmed Seifer and only by bringing his already existing desires on the surface with her magic. She did according to FF8 Ultimania book.
Also she has no spacetime powers. Only her past gaze. She uses that in combination with Ellone to cause TC. Nowhere else greater magic than normal time magic is mentioned and it is unnecessary because her powers are good enough already.In general we can call it spacetime power from what we can see in the story.
Griever's state is mentioned multiple times as fictional and explained in the Ultimania so any doubt is unnecessary. Also the English text is not reliable, the Ultimania and the original Text is.So we need Original version/Japanese version to understand the story completely.
Ultimecia has no knowledge of what has happened because she is not really immortal. She can control the powers that were given to Edea by Future Ultimecia but her consciousness still dies. Ultimecia is only aware of a few events but does not actually know the full event chain which is the very reason why she wonders about stuff her future self has already lived through. She does not event know what Edea knows because when she is in control of her body Ultimecia cannot make use of Edea's memories. She is stuck in an event cycle that is doomed to fail. A cycle she does not want to be repeated but she cannot do anything about it.We can see it as a cycle because we only see it from outside perspective of time/Ultimecia's timeline.
From Ultimecia's perspective it's only one time journey to Her Destiny.
Ultimecia is conscious of a time period in which her powers are inside of the body of someone else. She experiences that time and makes it her present this way. Ultimecia has also full use of the powers a witch possesses, no matter what Edea can do now or not. Ellone is supposed to be used by her because she wants to project her consciousness even further into the past and so combine Past, Present and Future by making it her own present. Technically something that could never be fully done but let's ignore that. She never succeeds to fully kill everything anyway.According to physics it's possible to exist simultaneously through out time and space.Certain Particles can do that.Her consciousness is the one that travels through time and space.