Forsaken Lover
12-29-2014, 03:09 PM
I'mma quote myself because I like this new Tolkien section and I also like this old post of mine:
Saruman was immensely better in the books, especially if you read Unfinished Tales, the Appendices, and so-on. There is so much backstory about him, about how he came to be the way he is, that it easily makes him the most dynamic and realistic villain Tolkien ever wrote. (in LOTR and The Sil, anyway) He wasn't just power-hungry, he wasn't just mindfucked by The One, he wasn't just jealous of Gandalf, he was all of these things and more. People with one all-consuming reason for their villainy kinda bore me but Saruman's fall is completely believable and awesome in my view.
For one thing, a huge emphasis is put on the Istari's "humanizing." Tolkien talks about it in one of the Letters but I can't recall which one. Point is, when they were embodied, the Istari grew capable of feeling the same weariness as mortals do, even if they were immortal. hey recall practically zilch of ther previous life, they most of what they know they have to regain in Middle-earth. For all intents and purposes, Middle-earth is their true home now because the Far West is a fading memory.
Then, if you look at Gandalf's dialogue in the books and read up on all the planning Sauron put into play and all the forces he had at his disposal, you realize another reason Saruman fell. He was truthful about this when he confronted Gandalf:
"A new Power is rising. Against it the old allies and policies will not avail us at all. There is no hope left in Elves or dying Númenor. This then is one choice before you. before us. We may join with that Power. It would be wise, Gandalf. There is hope that way. Its victory is at hand; and there will be rich reward for those that aided it. As the Power grows, its proved friends will also grow; and the Wise, such as you and I, may with patience come at last to direct its courses, to control it."
Let's get something straight, there was no hope of defeating Sauron by any means any of the Wise could see. Sauron's army was ludicrously bigger than anyone else's and Frodo never could have tossed the Ring into Mt. Dome. Even for a Hobbit, it was impossible.
What saved Frodo there, what destroyed the Ring, what allowed him to get to Mordor in the first place, is more or less stated to be divine intervention.
But how can Saruman count on this? When he's spending thousands of years reading up on Ring-lore in hopes of combating Sauron (and he was initially doing this for good reasons), when he's looking at the cold, hard facts, when he's being smart and sensible and weighing the sides of the war, what is he supposed to do? What general goes into war counting on God's intervention for victory? Probably not any general who remained in his post for long.
Saruman took the smartest, most logical path to defeating Sauron.
Of course, in the end, he didn't just take this path because it was logical. He took it due to a perpetually mounting envy, a lust for domination, and the frailties of his incarnate form. All these reasons combine to paint an extremely intriguing picture of his downfall. It makes him more sympathetic and three-dimensional than either of the Dark Lords he tried to emulate.
--------------------
Relevant to Sauron vs. Saruman in my post are pointing out Saruman being incarnated. Now, I don't take the view that the embodiment restricted their magical powers to a huge extent. A lot of people bring this up but Gandalf could go toe-to-toe with a Balrog when need be so I take the ivew the restrictions on their Maia abilities were more like rules or guidelines.
That being said, it's canon that their minds were effected by being in these new forms and for the first centuries they were in Middle-earth they probably had to spend time re-learning stuff they already knew. Saruman thus is working with a mind more akin to men (in both his original personality and because of being embodied) than Sauron who still possesses all his old wits. Wits that surpass than his master's, the greatest Dark Lord ever.
On the topic of Saruman vs. The Ring...
Consider what Galadriel tells Frodo when he inquires as to how he may use the One's power...
"Did not Gandalf tell you that the rings give power according to the measure of each possessor? Before you could use that power you would need to become far stronger, and to train your will to the domination of others."
Well Saruman's Voice already shows he has definitely gained quite a proficiency in that prerequisite.
[[http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Letter_246 From Tolkien's Letters 246:]]
"Of any others only Gandalf might be expected to master [Sauron] since he was a creature of the same order."
Being a Maia helps in your attempt to overpower the will of Sauron. Consider also that Gandalf the Grey had no doubts he could take and wield the Ring. Saruman meanwhile was the head of the Istari and thus presumably the most powerful. In addition he was the most versed in Ring-lore in all of Middle-earth with the exception of Sauron himself. In fact, I found this foreword by Tolkien to be quite intriguing:
"“Saruman, failing to get possession of the Ring, would ... have found in Mordor the missing links in his own researches into Ring-lore, and before long he would have made a Great Ring of his own with which to challenge the self-styled Ruler of Middle-earth."
-Foreword to LOTR 2nd Edition, if the War of the Ring was inspired by Wordl War Ii.
Now the counter-arguments...
"....Saruman the White, fell from his high errand, and becoming proud and impatient and enamoured of power sought to have his own will by force, and to oust Sauron; but he was ensnared by that dark spirit, mightier than he."
-Unfinished Tales, The Istari
"3000 - The shadow of Mordor lengthens. Saurman dares to use the palantir of Orthanc, but becomes ensared by Sauron, who has the Ithil Stone. He becomes a traitor to the Council."
-Appendix B
In the end, Saruman did well with what he had, but he probably couldn't have overpowered the Ring or Sauron.
I think it's very thematically important that Saruman is a failure however. The Lord of the Rings is not The Silmarillion. LOTR is not about the mightiest of the mighty throwing down and saving the day because they're just that awesome. Aragorn, for all his heritage and strength of Gondor, is just a decoy and figurehead. It was a simple Hobbit who saved the day. Saruman meanwhile fits the bill too. He wanted to become a Dark Lord on par with Morgoth or Sauron but he couldn't. The story of LOTR is not about strength overcoming strength but character overcoming strength, and Saruman sadly was always a bit weak of character.
A weak character, a weak constitution, is not a sin but poor Corumo was in over his head and the environment slowly worsened his position until he did fall to evil.
There were so many factors contributing to Saruman's fall - more than Melkor or Sauron or Feanor (he's a villain). To me, he is by far the most complex and intriguing villain Tolkien ever wrote because his corruption is by far the most believable.
Saruman was immensely better in the books, especially if you read Unfinished Tales, the Appendices, and so-on. There is so much backstory about him, about how he came to be the way he is, that it easily makes him the most dynamic and realistic villain Tolkien ever wrote. (in LOTR and The Sil, anyway) He wasn't just power-hungry, he wasn't just mindfucked by The One, he wasn't just jealous of Gandalf, he was all of these things and more. People with one all-consuming reason for their villainy kinda bore me but Saruman's fall is completely believable and awesome in my view.
For one thing, a huge emphasis is put on the Istari's "humanizing." Tolkien talks about it in one of the Letters but I can't recall which one. Point is, when they were embodied, the Istari grew capable of feeling the same weariness as mortals do, even if they were immortal. hey recall practically zilch of ther previous life, they most of what they know they have to regain in Middle-earth. For all intents and purposes, Middle-earth is their true home now because the Far West is a fading memory.
Then, if you look at Gandalf's dialogue in the books and read up on all the planning Sauron put into play and all the forces he had at his disposal, you realize another reason Saruman fell. He was truthful about this when he confronted Gandalf:
"A new Power is rising. Against it the old allies and policies will not avail us at all. There is no hope left in Elves or dying Númenor. This then is one choice before you. before us. We may join with that Power. It would be wise, Gandalf. There is hope that way. Its victory is at hand; and there will be rich reward for those that aided it. As the Power grows, its proved friends will also grow; and the Wise, such as you and I, may with patience come at last to direct its courses, to control it."
Let's get something straight, there was no hope of defeating Sauron by any means any of the Wise could see. Sauron's army was ludicrously bigger than anyone else's and Frodo never could have tossed the Ring into Mt. Dome. Even for a Hobbit, it was impossible.
What saved Frodo there, what destroyed the Ring, what allowed him to get to Mordor in the first place, is more or less stated to be divine intervention.
But how can Saruman count on this? When he's spending thousands of years reading up on Ring-lore in hopes of combating Sauron (and he was initially doing this for good reasons), when he's looking at the cold, hard facts, when he's being smart and sensible and weighing the sides of the war, what is he supposed to do? What general goes into war counting on God's intervention for victory? Probably not any general who remained in his post for long.
Saruman took the smartest, most logical path to defeating Sauron.
Of course, in the end, he didn't just take this path because it was logical. He took it due to a perpetually mounting envy, a lust for domination, and the frailties of his incarnate form. All these reasons combine to paint an extremely intriguing picture of his downfall. It makes him more sympathetic and three-dimensional than either of the Dark Lords he tried to emulate.
--------------------
Relevant to Sauron vs. Saruman in my post are pointing out Saruman being incarnated. Now, I don't take the view that the embodiment restricted their magical powers to a huge extent. A lot of people bring this up but Gandalf could go toe-to-toe with a Balrog when need be so I take the ivew the restrictions on their Maia abilities were more like rules or guidelines.
That being said, it's canon that their minds were effected by being in these new forms and for the first centuries they were in Middle-earth they probably had to spend time re-learning stuff they already knew. Saruman thus is working with a mind more akin to men (in both his original personality and because of being embodied) than Sauron who still possesses all his old wits. Wits that surpass than his master's, the greatest Dark Lord ever.
On the topic of Saruman vs. The Ring...
Consider what Galadriel tells Frodo when he inquires as to how he may use the One's power...
"Did not Gandalf tell you that the rings give power according to the measure of each possessor? Before you could use that power you would need to become far stronger, and to train your will to the domination of others."
Well Saruman's Voice already shows he has definitely gained quite a proficiency in that prerequisite.
[[http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Letter_246 From Tolkien's Letters 246:]]
"Of any others only Gandalf might be expected to master [Sauron] since he was a creature of the same order."
Being a Maia helps in your attempt to overpower the will of Sauron. Consider also that Gandalf the Grey had no doubts he could take and wield the Ring. Saruman meanwhile was the head of the Istari and thus presumably the most powerful. In addition he was the most versed in Ring-lore in all of Middle-earth with the exception of Sauron himself. In fact, I found this foreword by Tolkien to be quite intriguing:
"“Saruman, failing to get possession of the Ring, would ... have found in Mordor the missing links in his own researches into Ring-lore, and before long he would have made a Great Ring of his own with which to challenge the self-styled Ruler of Middle-earth."
-Foreword to LOTR 2nd Edition, if the War of the Ring was inspired by Wordl War Ii.
Now the counter-arguments...
"....Saruman the White, fell from his high errand, and becoming proud and impatient and enamoured of power sought to have his own will by force, and to oust Sauron; but he was ensnared by that dark spirit, mightier than he."
-Unfinished Tales, The Istari
"3000 - The shadow of Mordor lengthens. Saurman dares to use the palantir of Orthanc, but becomes ensared by Sauron, who has the Ithil Stone. He becomes a traitor to the Council."
-Appendix B
In the end, Saruman did well with what he had, but he probably couldn't have overpowered the Ring or Sauron.
I think it's very thematically important that Saruman is a failure however. The Lord of the Rings is not The Silmarillion. LOTR is not about the mightiest of the mighty throwing down and saving the day because they're just that awesome. Aragorn, for all his heritage and strength of Gondor, is just a decoy and figurehead. It was a simple Hobbit who saved the day. Saruman meanwhile fits the bill too. He wanted to become a Dark Lord on par with Morgoth or Sauron but he couldn't. The story of LOTR is not about strength overcoming strength but character overcoming strength, and Saruman sadly was always a bit weak of character.
A weak character, a weak constitution, is not a sin but poor Corumo was in over his head and the environment slowly worsened his position until he did fall to evil.
There were so many factors contributing to Saruman's fall - more than Melkor or Sauron or Feanor (he's a villain). To me, he is by far the most complex and intriguing villain Tolkien ever wrote because his corruption is by far the most believable.