PDA

View Full Version : Final Fantasy VI Headscratchers



Spooniest
12-29-2014, 05:47 PM
Kefka seems to have gotten ahold of the AutoCrossbow and punched numerous holes in the plot.

1. From Infancy To Adulthood

So, yeah, Terra, you got abducted as a child by Emperor Gestahl...yeah...and then when you were 18 they put a slave crown on your head...

What about the 17 years between those two events? What did they do with her? Does she know Celes? Do they have a history together? What about the REST of her memories? T_T I've always found this an irksome thing.

2. I'll Protect You, No Matter Wha--Later!

Locke said he was going to protect Terra no matter what, then promptly leaves her with someone she's never met in a place she's never been and doesn't know her way around. I do not think "protection" means what he thinks it means.

3. We Have Fire-Spewing Mechs, Sir Kefka...

Kefka only sets the castle on fire enough to get Edgar to surrender Terra to him. This doesn't seem kind of stupid when he could just have the soldiers blast out the castle walls and flush her out himself? You can say that Kefka is crazy, but why is he stupid too?

4. Oh Hello Sovereign Ruler!

The KING walks into your town, and you tell him "There's lots of armor and relics in our shops!"

Imagine Barack Obama or the Queen Mother walking past your driveway. You're gonna tell them "Kroger has a great deal on cucumbers!?"

This is just surreal. Edgar walks into South Figaro and nobody bats an eyelash. Do they not know who their king is?

5. Oh, A Person With Green Hair? Yeah, She Was Here

Terra has green hair, and nobody cares. She is absolutely, I guarantee you, the only person in this entire world with green hair, and she walks through populated areas unquestioned.

This wouldn't be half as bad if she wasn't being hunted by the Empire at the time. Don't they want to protect her? Shouldn't she cover her hair to hide her identity or something?

6. Sorry About Your Surrogate Dad, Bro

Sabin has just revealed to everyone within a 5 mile radius that Vargas has killed his Sensei (Vargas' father), Duncan.

Edgar utterly drops the subject when the scene afterward plays. Not "I'm terribly sorry for your loss," but "We're going to the Returner Hideout, derp."

This guy took Sabin in when he was homeless and trained him for 10 years. Sabin later remarks that the dude's wife treated him like a son. And Edgar doesn't say boo about it. Cold chillin', Edgar.

7. Smellavision

It would be kind of nice if there were any indication that anyone in this game bathes. There are toilets, for goodness sake. But no showers or bathtubs? That seems weird. They just climbed a mountain, and they don't take a bath when they get to the Returner Hideout?

Yuck. I'd have wanted a bath and some clean clothes...and how about some food!?

8. Imperial Soldiers Are Ridiculously Stupid

You have the option of walking Terra back over to Mt. Kolts at this point. You meet a single Imperial Soldier, who, rather than capture this weak, pathetic loner who has decided to run from the crazy, B.O.-infested Returner Hideout, simply screams "You're Returners!!" and jumps on his mech, chasing her out.

This guy was later fired. If he was fired by Kefka, it might have been over a spit.

Anyone want to take over from here? The list does keep going and going...

MJN SEIFER
01-01-2015, 09:09 PM
Great list. :)


So, yeah, Terra, you got abducted as a child by Emperor Gestahl...yeah...and then when you were 18 they put a slave crown on your head...

What about the 17 years between those two events? What did they do with her? Does she know Celes? Do they have a history together? What about the REST of her memories? T_T I've always found this an irksome thing.

I can't believe I never thought about that, there's so much missing from the storyline. It would have also been good to give her a history with Celes, especially when their names may have been inspired by the same thing (using her Japanese verison name; "Tina")


Locke said he was going to protect Terra no matter what, then promptly leaves her with someone she's never met in a place she's never been and doesn't know her way around. I do not think "protection" means what he thinks it means.

I think Locke knew he could trust Edgar, I get what you mean, but I think he knew she was in safe hands.


Terra has green hair, and nobody cares. She is absolutely, I guarantee you, the only person in this entire world with green hair, and she walks through populated areas unquestioned.

This wouldn't be half as bad if she wasn't being hunted by the Empire at the time. Don't they want to protect her? Shouldn't she cover her hair to hide her identity or something?
This is kind of a cop out, but pretty much everything outside the game shows Terra as blonde, so maybe in canon she is supposed to be (though why they made her hair green in the game, I don't know). Another thing is maybe they wanted the character to stand out, so they made her hair green.

The fact they can't seem to decide on whether her hair is green or blonde (I'm going with green) is a headscratcher itself, but I agree it's a plothole that no one seems to care about her hair being green, for reasons you said.


Sabin has just revealed to everyone within a 5 mile radius that Vargas has killed his Sensei (Vargas' father), Duncan.

Edgar utterly drops the subject when the scene afterward plays. Not "I'm terribly sorry for your loss," but "We're going to the Returner Hideout, derp."

This guy took Sabin in when he was homeless and trained him for 10 years. Sabin later remarks that the dude's wife treated him like a son. And Edgar doesn't say boo about it. Cold chillin', Edgar.
The whole scene is lacking in the emotion, and is sadly rushed. Someone once pointed out that Sabin and Edgar's reunion itself should have been a more emotional time, but all we really get is Locke saying "The brothers are reunited!" and that's it. With both this, and Edgar's comforting of Sabin over Duncan's death, the only way to solve it to just assume it happened of screen at some point (oh look, another cop out).

Also, why bother having Vargas escape the battle instead of die if they're not going to even bother with him in at least one more encounter? Unless they gave him the "escape" animation by accident... I don't expect him to keep appearing, but maybe a World of Ruin rematch?

Wolf Kanno
01-01-2015, 10:13 PM
Kefka seems to have gotten a hold of the AutoCrossbow and punched numerous holes in the plot. Allow me to answer you.


1. From Infancy To Adulthood

So, yeah, Terra, you got abducted as a child by Emperor Gestahl...yeah...and then when you were 18 they put a slave crown on your head...

What about the 17 years between those two events? What did they do with her? Does she know Celes? Do they have a history together? What about the REST of her memories? T_T I've always found this an irksome thing.

1. We don't actually know when Terra got the Slave Crown, I mean the sprites for middle school Figaro Bros and adult Figaro Brothers is the same, so Terra may have had the crown on for some time. Considering it took being reunited with her father to awaken her full memories suggests she could have had the crown on for years.

2. I would point out that the Imperial Soldiers themselves only know her as a rumor. Chances are Terra was more test subject than combat weapon and thus Celes may never had met her beyond passing like it was shown with Gestalh's speech. Celes may have also just thought she was another Magitech Knight like herself under Kefka's care as she was under Dr. Cid, or she could be like Leo who admits he knew what they were doing to her and felt ashamed they did nothing to stop it so purposely avoided her up until then.

With that said I do agree it was missed story opportunity, especially when you realize the two never interact with each other after the battle to defend Narshe.



2. I'll Protect You, No Matter Wha--Later!

Locke said he was going to protect Terra no matter what, then promptly leaves her with someone she's never met in a place she's never been and doesn't know her way around. I do not think "protection" means what he thinks it means.

Funny enough, it's most likely Kitase's fault on this one. In the original concept for the game and possibly the early script, Locke and Terra were meant to have a closer bond to each other. The thing is that Kitase liked Celes more and even though her original role was meant to be smaller, Kitase actually expanded beyond the original script which he has admitted to in some old interviews. So it never comes up because Kitase was more invested in Locke and Celes' relationship. The other way of looking at this is that fans may have interpreted it more deeply than it was meant to be due to the dialogue being a bit ambiguous for non-Japanese. Instead of looking at it as Locke pledging his unwavering support/protection to Terra, it was meant to establish the fact that Happy-Go-Lucky Locke Cole has some deep-seated issues concerning woman.



3. We Have Fire-Spewing Mechs, Sir Kefka...

Kefka only sets the castle on fire enough to get Edgar to surrender Terra to him. This doesn't seem kind of stupid when he could just have the soldiers blast out the castle walls and flush her out himself? You can say that Kefka is crazy, but why is he stupid too?

Chances are it was the Magitech Armors fire power that caused the fire in the first place. The other thing I would point out is that we may be overestimating the Magitek Armors power. It's one thing to lay waste to a militia using rifles and trained animals with magic armor it's another to be directly confronting a well-trained army with the most technologically advanced defensive castle in the northern hemisphere. I would also point out that Doma was being laid seiged by Magitek Armor (and according to the Ulitmania, this was for years) and their castle was still in good shape. Chances are Kefka didn't have the man power to start a real battle and simply went the sabatoge route.


4. Oh Hello Sovereign Ruler!

The KING walks into your town, and you tell him "There's lots of armor and relics in our shops!"

Imagine Barack Obama or the Queen Mother walking past your driveway. You're gonna tell them "Kroger has a great deal on cucumbers!?"

This is just surreal. Edgar walks into South Figaro and nobody bats an eyelash. Do they not know who their king is?

You're using modern standards on a game that is definitely invoking First Industrial Era real life. Obama and the Queen exist in a world of multimedia and mass communication whereas Edgar exists in a world where writing letters and sending them by carrier pigeon is the norm and pictures involve portrait artist. That's not to say that no one would recognize him if he walked into town but the number of people who would is a small number and largely influential merchants or nobles themselves. It's not like Edgar strolls through towns every week considering he has a kingdom to run while secretly funding a rebellion.


5. Oh, A Person With Green Hair? Yeah, She Was Here

Terra has green hair, and nobody cares. She is absolutely, I guarantee you, the only person in this entire world with green hair, and she walks through populated areas unquestioned.

This wouldn't be half as bad if she wasn't being hunted by the Empire at the time. Don't they want to protect her? Shouldn't she cover her hair to hide her identity or something?

MJN Seifer largely nailed this. Terra's green hair is a technical feat to help with memory and make her look distinct from Celes. The game never really bothers to make a continued point that Terra's hair is actually unique. That's why no one cares is because it wasn't meant to be a big deal.


6. Sorry About Your Surrogate Dad, Bro

Sabin has just revealed to everyone within a 5 mile radius that Vargas has killed his Sensei (Vargas' father), Duncan.

Edgar utterly drops the subject when the scene afterward plays. Not "I'm terribly sorry for your loss," but "We're going to the Returner Hideout, derp."

This guy took Sabin in when he was homeless and trained him for 10 years. Sabin later remarks that the dude's wife treated him like a son. And Edgar doesn't say boo about it. Cold chillin', Edgar.

Considering Sabin makes light of being trapped on a train bound for the land of the dead and has little issue traveling by waterfall or Serpent Trench, I feel Sabin shows that it takes a bit to really rattle him anymore which may be due to all his monk training. The other thing to point out is that Vargas apparently murdering Duncan happened before the party met up with Sabin so it's very likely all the mourning and rage happened offscreen and considering he was trying to help Vargas rather than bring harm to him, I feel Sabin also was doing this to help Duncan's wife.


7. Smellavision

It would be kind of nice if there were any indication that anyone in this game bathes. There are toilets, for goodness sake. But no showers or bathtubs? That seems weird. They just climbed a mountain, and they don't take a bath when they get to the Returner Hideout?

Yuck. I'd have wanted a bath and some clean clothes...and how about some food!?

The toilet is most likely the designers having fun, don't think too hard on this. ;)

8. Imperial Soldiers Are Ridiculously Stupid

You have the option of walking Terra back over to Mt. Kolts at this point. You meet a single Imperial Soldier, who, rather than capture this weak, pathetic loner who has decided to run from the crazy, B.O.-infested Returner Hideout, simply screams "You're Returners!!" and jumps on his mech, chasing her out.

This guy was later fired. If he was fired by Kefka, it might have been over a spit.[/quote]

It actually sounds to me like they were trying to capture them but Terra gets away. Let's not forget who the Imperial Troopers are based off of....

61606

Sephiroth
01-01-2015, 11:17 PM
This is kind of a cop out, but pretty much everything outside the game shows Terra as blonde, so maybe in canon she is supposed to be (though why they made her hair green in the game, I don't know). Another thing is maybe they wanted the character to stand out, so they made her hair green.


Terra's hair is green. Just like Lenna and Faris have pink and purple hair. Blonde is just something special in Asia. Even Lightning was drawn blonde by Yoshitaka Amano. Granted, Terra was at first supposed to be blonde but that is as irrelevant as Sephiroth originally being Aerith's first boyfriend. Yes, they wanted her to stand out and as it was changed they probably never wrote something additíonally in their script. Not that uncommon hair is something new in fantasy.

But hey, blonde Terra - OKAY

https://www.google.de/search?q=terra+dissidia&espv=2&biw=1455&bih=726&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=8smlVKDGL4_eaOHTgcgG&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ

Wolf Kanno
01-01-2015, 11:47 PM
This is kind of a cop out, but pretty much everything outside the game shows Terra as blonde, so maybe in canon she is supposed to be (though why they made her hair green in the game, I don't know). Another thing is maybe they wanted the character to stand out, so they made her hair green.


Terra's hair is green. Just like Lenna and Faris have pink and purple hair. Blonde is just something special in Asia. Even Lightning was drawn blonde by Yoshitaka Amano. Granted, Terra was at first supposed to be blonde but that is as irrelevant as Sephiroth originally being Aerith's first boyfriend. Yes, they wanted her to stand out and as it was changed they probably never wrote something additíonally in their script. Not that uncommon hair is something new in fantasy.

Squenix seem to disagree about the hair color, seeing how any time any of them show up in new media they are usually their original hair color and even then they are inconsistent. Lenna's Air Brigade sprite is pink haired but her portrait art has always been based on the Blond Amano design. Terra only seems to have green hair in the VI ports/Mobile remake but she's blond in every other media she shows up in. Faris also goes back and forth between the mobile games on being blond or having purple hair. To be honest, I feel it's a silly argument on what their "proper" hair color is as it seems to me that Squenix is inconsistent because they simply leave it up to the fan on what is canon and what is not because they don't care.

Sephiroth
01-02-2015, 12:00 AM
That they continue to use blonde hair in installlments like Dissidia that are mainly based on Yoshitaka Amano's style or cg sequences of FFVI where Kefka does magically not have long hair appropriately to the Yoshitaka Amano Style even though he all the time has long hair in his normal and final form does not mean anything. That is like saying Goku's actual physical conditions in Dragon Ball cannot be known just because Akira Toriyama nowadays draws him way more skinny than he actually is - and is shown to be in chapters afterwards that fit the chapters before (where he also was not drawn skinny) the time of the movies (where he was drawn skinny). Characters often have different ways of being drawn, even if it is about pretty much the same time. That does not mean they have no real form of appearance (well, they do nto have a "real" form but you know what I mean).

Lightning also does not have blonde hair. And Sephiroth, though being ambidextrous(ly skilled) and even being shown to use his right hand very often and even in Yoshitaka Amano's artwork will also always have his left one as his "main hand".

Snap Jumper
01-02-2015, 12:36 AM
Yuck. I'd have wanted a bath and some clean clothes...and how about some food!?

There is food. The ghosts on the Phantom Train will serve you some.

Spooniest
01-02-2015, 01:16 AM
You're using modern standards on a game that is definitely invoking First Industrial Era real life. Obama and the Queen exist in a world of multimedia and mass communication whereas Edgar exists in a world where writing letters and sending them by carrier pigeon is the norm and pictures involve portrait artist. That's not to say that no one would recognize him if he walked into town but the number of people who would is a small number and largely influential merchants or nobles themselves. It's not like Edgar strolls through towns every week considering he has a kingdom to run while secretly funding a rebellion.

To which I reply:

Hi8vXOUi-eI

"Must be a king."

"How do you know?"

"He hasn't got shit all over him."

Wolf Kanno
01-02-2015, 01:23 AM
Again you're using different time periods for comparison, also Edgar works with machines so I doubt he's ever clean looking. :p

Spooniest
01-03-2015, 07:11 AM
Nuh uh, and you're a poopyface

Another headscratcher for you...

Current's...Fast

Uh, maybe this is nitpicking, and maybe not, but...uh, rafts do not hold still while you fight monsters in rivers. I know this isn't the worst example of Gameplay/Story Segregation but it's kind of weirdish.

Oh, They're Beating A Woman...Better Not Interrupt

That's great, Locke. Don't bother taking on all 2 of the Imperial Soldiers that are beating the goddamn turds out of the lady, there. "I have to protect women cuz I failed to protect my girlfriend once, but I wouldn't want to be rude."

Rich People Build Weird Passages

Let's say you're the richest guy in town, and you want to build an emergency passageway that leads out of town.

Yeah, go ahead and make that as convoluted and full of dark hallways that you can't see your way through as you can, rich guy. Your escape plan is flawless.

We're Miners! "How Do I Get Out Of Town Through The Mines?" Uh.......

The people of Narshe don't know about any of the secret passageways that seem to have been there since at least (I guess) before the game began? And even if they did, did they not think it prudent to perhaps try to seal these passageways? They use them; they've got a training center for their guards down there; Edgar even says exactly this.

What is their problem? "Nah, we'll just leave the secret passage and back door to the town completely unlocked and unguarded except for a kinda-dangerous test you have to pass."

Brilliant.

Hm, That Kefka's Up To Something...BYEEEEEE

General Leo doesn't suspect that Gestahl may be intentionally diverting his attention away from Doma to give Kefka his window of opportunity? I just find it hard to believe, after all that ends up happening near the middle of the game, that Gestahl was seriously all that upset by what Kefka did. He probably just said, "Oh, we own Doma now" when he got the carrier pigeon.

General Leo doesn't question this decision once, beyond an unfinished apology to Cyan, if you brought Cyan along.

I thought Generals had to go to school.

Good Thing I've Got This Plot Armor

Cyan is not affected by the poison at all. They don't even try to excuse this. Cyan is just magically OK. Pretty glaring, if only for the fact that they don't even bother addressing it.

A Train! Doma Has Trains! But Not This Train!

Maybe this isn't a plot hole in and of itself, but this seems like exposition that could have been split up better. A single other comment (beforehand somewhere) about the fact that Doma once had train tracks all round it would have sufficed.

Instead it's a single information tidbit that is easily missed. Just weird and made me scratch my head.

I Know Better, But What The Heck

If Fake Siegfried is such a freaking pansy, why isn't he dead after you kill him? :/

It's really better not to ask questions about this particular plot thread in FF6, I suppose.

Ok, So The Train Is Talking

...And now we're running from the Train? And hitting it? And Suplexing it? ...And now we're back on the train? I thought it blew up with thunder and lighting?

Gameplay/Story Segregation again... :/

I'm Tired Of These M*f*n Pirhanas In This M*f*n Waterfall

This is just the height of smurfing bulltrout. This is the one thing I don't think Edgar or Locke would have believed if Cyan hadn't been there to corroborate his story.

"Then we fought pirhanas off as we dove down a waterfall!"

"Bulltrout, Sabin!!"

"No, Sir Sabin speaks the truth"

Smellavision 2: Olfactory Reset

Gau is probably pretty stank. It's little wonder you end up...

...Diving Into A Trench Sharing 1 Diving Helmet

...Between 3 grown men, in a strong undertow.

This is almost as ridiculous as the pirhanas.

"We Sighted Kefka In The Area"

One of the Figaro Castle guards says this...I think it might've been a translation error, but still, it begs the question, what the hell is KING Edgar Roni Figaro's ARMY doing while he's fighting for his life in Narshe?

Is it their day off or something!?

TO BE CONTINUED

Wolf Kanno
01-03-2015, 10:14 PM
Nuh uh, and you're a poopyface

Nuh uh, my mommy says I'm handsome and I'm going to tell her what you said about me and you'll be in big trouble and have your toys taken away. :p



Current's...Fast

Uh, maybe this is nitpicking, and maybe not, but...uh, rafts do not hold still while you fight monsters in rivers. I know this isn't the worst example of Gameplay/Story Segregation but it's kind of weirdish.

It just shows how skilled the party is yo!


Oh, They're Beating A Woman...Better Not Interrupt

That's great, Locke. Don't bother taking on all 2 of the Imperial Soldiers that are beating the goddamn turds out of the lady, there. "I have to protect women cuz I failed to protect my girlfriend once, but I wouldn't want to be rude."

Said woman was an imperial general that is associated with organization that killed girl that created issues. Besides Locke can't risk being captured which is why he had to use disguises and secret passage ways instead of just brute forcing his way out unlike a certain Monk...


Rich People Build Weird Passages

Let's say you're the richest guy in town, and you want to build an emergency passageway that leads out of town.

Yeah, go ahead and make that as convoluted and full of dark hallways that you can't see your way through as you can, rich guy. Your escape plan is flawless.

It's most likely designed to help in escape from potential pursuers since only the rich man would know the proper exit.


We're Miners! "How Do I Get Out Of Town Through The Mines?" Uh.......

The people of Narshe don't know about any of the secret passageways that seem to have been there since at least (I guess) before the game began? And even if they did, did they not think it prudent to perhaps try to seal these passageways? They use them; they've got a training center for their guards down there; Edgar even says exactly this.

What is their problem? "Nah, we'll just leave the secret passage and back door to the town completely unlocked and unguarded except for a kinda-dangerous test you have to pass."

Brilliant.

Chances are it's the underground Returners group within Narshe who made use of the passageways and not the townsfolk hence why it seems only Locke and Arvis are aware of it. They did set some precautions when Edgar's group came back (after learning about when Locke and Terra escaped) and considering said mines are monster infested, I doubt the townsfolk are really quick to explore them all otherwise they would have met a ton of angry badass moogles and their Yeti pet.


Hm, That Kefka's Up To Something...BYEEEEEE

General Leo doesn't suspect that Gestahl may be intentionally diverting his attention away from Doma to give Kefka his window of opportunity? I just find it hard to believe, after all that ends up happening near the middle of the game, that Gestahl was seriously all that upset by what Kefka did. He probably just said, "Oh, we own Doma now" when he got the carrier pigeon.

General Leo doesn't question this decision once, beyond an unfinished apology to Cyan, if you brought Cyan along.

I thought Generals had to go to school.

He may very well have said something considering he never shows up again until the party is having the treaty dinner with the Emperor. It's also left ambiguous whether the letter sent was actually from the Emperor or was forged and sent by Kefka to get it Leo out of there. Gestahl may have set it all up to get Kefka to finish the siege since Leo was taking too long.


Good Thing I've Got This Plot Armor

Cyan is not affected by the poison at all. They don't even try to excuse this. Cyan is just magically OK. Pretty glaring, if only for the fact that they don't even bother addressing it.

He and the other guard may have simply not had a chance to take a drink. It's not like the game goes out of it's way to explain how the poison works. I feel this scene is meant to be left up to the player's imagination.



A Train! Doma Has Trains! But Not This Train!

Maybe this isn't a plot hole in and of itself, but this seems like exposition that could have been split up better. A single other comment (beforehand somewhere) about the fact that Doma once had train tracks all round it would have sufficed.

Instead it's a single information tidbit that is easily missed. Just weird and made me scratch my head.

I feel the limitations of the system pretty much made it it impossible to show this off but VI's world is based on First Industrial Revolution Europe so I wouldn't be surprised if there were suppose to be train tracks leading to most of the cities. The Ultimania mentions that all the machines built in Figaro Castle are transported to South Figaro to be sold, the cave passage seems awfully inconveinet to do so so it wouldn't be a stretch considering the world design to imagine there is a train track connecting the two to make this easier.


I Know Better, But What The Heck

If Fake Siegfried is such a freaking pansy, why isn't he dead after you kill him? :/

It's really better not to ask questions about this particular plot thread in FF6, I suppose.

Considering you meet him on a train bound for the dead, maybe he's already dead? I sometimes like the theory that Fake Siegfried was actually dead and Sabin screwing up the train allowed him to come back to the land of the living. Granted this is Siegfried and he really is a plot hole.


Ok, So The Train Is Talking

...And now we're running from the Train? And hitting it? And Suplexing it? ...And now we're back on the train? I thought it blew up with thunder and lighting?

Gameplay/Story Segregation again... :/

It's a train that takes the dead to their final resting place, it may simply being the personification of death itself which no one seems to have an issue with being a chatty Kathy. The Suplex is actually a bug that became too popular among fans for Square to ever bother fixing it.



I'm Tired Of These M*f*n Pirhanas In This M*f*n Waterfall

This is just the height of smurfing bulltrout. This is the one thing I don't think Edgar or Locke would have believed if Cyan hadn't been there to corroborate his story.

"Then we fought pirhanas off as we dove down a waterfall!"

"Bulltrout, Sabin!!"

"No, Sir Sabin speaks the truth"

The fact they jump off FF's equivalent of Niagara Falls to get to their next destination pretty much throws any real world logic out the window. Just let Sabin fight his magic piranha that live in a waterfall.


Smellavision 2: Olfactory Reset

Gau is probably pretty stank. It's little wonder you end up...

He probably just smells like a farm animal which is repugnant but you get used to it. It's not like Cyan and Sabin had time to bathe on their journey so I doubt they smelled better.


...Diving Into A Trench Sharing 1 Diving Helmet

...Between 3 grown men, in a strong undertow.

This is almost as ridiculous as the pirhanas.

Okay, yeah this is a plot convenient plot hole. Who knows, maybe they simply took turns using it but considering it's designed toi look like an old diving helmet which works by having someone pumping air into it from the surface I think we can safely assume it's some Magitek relic from the War of the Magi.


"We Sighted Kefka In The Area"


One of the Figaro Castle guards says this...I think it might've been a translation error, but still, it begs the question, what the hell is KING Edgar Roni Figaro's ARMY doing while he's fighting for his life in Narshe?

Is it their day off or something!?

TO BE CONTINUED

Defending Castle Figaro from possible attacks after their ruse was revealed? Not to mention it takes awhile to move an army or perhaps they were there fighting off the bulk of Kefka's forces that didn't make it into the city. I mean it's not like we see Narshe's forces helping defend the Esper either so it's likely they many all be fighting their own battles off screen. The aftermath when the party splits up concludes that Narshe can't protect itself anymore meaning they may have suffered heavy casualties in the battle and perhaps the Returners stay behind to organize the Figaro troops that will help bolster the cities defense?

Spooniest
01-03-2015, 11:18 PM
Chances are it's the underground Returners group within Narshe who made use of the passageways and not the townsfolk hence why it seems only Locke and Arvis are aware of it. They did set some precautions when Edgar's group came back (after learning about when Locke and Terra escaped) and considering said mines are monster infested, I doubt the townsfolk are really quick to explore them all otherwise they would have met a ton of angry badass moogles and their Yeti pet.

Dude, Edgar straight-up says that the Narshe Guards use that cave (with the little light you have to follow) to train the Guards.

Where are those guards? Is it their day off?

Wolf Kanno
01-03-2015, 11:46 PM
Chances are it's the underground Returners group within Narshe who made use of the passageways and not the townsfolk hence why it seems only Locke and Arvis are aware of it. They did set some precautions when Edgar's group came back (after learning about when Locke and Terra escaped) and considering said mines are monster infested, I doubt the townsfolk are really quick to explore them all otherwise they would have met a ton of angry badass moogles and their Yeti pet.

Dude, Edgar straight-up says that the Narshe Guards use that cave (with the little light you have to follow) to train the Guards.

Where are those guards? Is it their day off?

It's a training ground dude, they don't need guards posted at the training grounds. Again, the place is filled with monsters as well, I honestly feel the guards wouldn't think of someone going through maze-like, monster-infested mines to get into the city. Not like Kefka's forces used that route either.

Spooniest
01-03-2015, 11:50 PM
It's a training ground dude, they don't need guards posted at the training grounds. Again, the place is filled with monsters as well, I honestly feel the guards wouldn't think of someone going through maze-like, monster-infested mines to get into the city. Not like Kefka's forces used that route either.

:/ Yes you most certainly do, to train the other guards! And you certainly don't leave the back door to the training ground unlocked.

Unless that was Gary, the new guy at Narshe Guard headquarters. He took his dog out and forgot to lock up when he came back in. :)

The Man
01-03-2015, 11:55 PM
I feel like the MST3K mantra applies to a lot of these.

Wolf Kanno
01-03-2015, 11:55 PM
It's a training ground dude, they don't need guards posted at the training grounds. Again, the place is filled with monsters as well, I honestly feel the guards wouldn't think of someone going through maze-like, monster-infested mines to get into the city. Not like Kefka's forces used that route either.

:/ Yes you most certainly do, to train the other guards! And you certainly don't leave the back door to the training ground unlocked.

Unless that was Gary, the new guy at Narshe Guard headquarters. He took his dog out and forgot to lock up when he came back in. :)

I'm sure Gary was simply too heartbroken when his dog was eaten alive by Leaf Bunnies the number one Pet Killer in the World of Balance.

Spooniest
01-03-2015, 11:58 PM
I feel like the MST3K mantra applies to a lot of these.

Yah, but you can throw the MST3K at any headscratcher you want to, though.

I'm only doing it for a laugh, at any rate. FF6 FOR LYFE! Cloud who?

Wolf Kanno
01-04-2015, 12:07 AM
I feel like the MST3K mantra applies to a lot of these.

Some of them are fair assessments of plot holes. Of anything it just kind of shows how VI was made back when the player still had to use a bit of their imagination to fill in the gaps. As opposed to modern game writing that often leaves no stone unturned unless it is an actual plot hole.

More legitimate plot holes imho would be stuff like Gestahl's crazy omniscience about letting Terra fall into Returner hands so she would eventually open the gate to their world (I call bullshit personally), the ambiguous nature of Kefka's betrayal at the Floating Continent and whether he really did know more about the Warring Triad than anyone else or if it was simply a fluke, what happened to Banon and Arvis after the world was destroyed, what was the whole point of Siegfried, and probably a few more that I can't think of at the moment.

Spooniest
01-04-2015, 12:08 AM
More legitimate plot holes imho would be stuff like Gestahl's crazy omniscience about letting Terra fall into Returner hands so she would eventually open the gate to their world (I call bulltrout personally), the ambiguous nature of Kefka's betrayal at the Floating Continent and whether he really did know more about the Warring Triad than anyone else or if it was simply a fluke, what happened to Banon and Arvis after the world was destroyed, what was the whole point of Siegfried, and probably a few more that I can't think of at the moment.

Oh, but you've noticed, I'm going through the game bit by bit

Really, if I can riff on it, I will

The Man
01-04-2015, 12:43 AM
I feel like the MST3K mantra applies to a lot of these.

Some of them are fair assessments of plot holes.Well yes, that's why I said "a lot" and not "all". :monster:

Omni-Odin
01-05-2015, 07:40 PM
A lot of good points. Some better than others (I think we'll all get over the no showers thing).

This game is full of unexplained plot holes, villains without motive, and an excess of characters making you feel less and less for each one's individual story. I also like that with every point you come up with, most retorts consist of "Dude, it could have been..." or "Calm down, it's a fantasy game bro", which is exactly the point I feel you're trying to make. The game does not provide any plot points to fill in these holes so it's all up to "the player's imagination" or speculation. That's called a plot hole.

Btw every FF game has these plot holes. I'm just making the point that they're more heavily criticized in other games because FFVI is a favorite.

Ayen
01-21-2015, 08:21 AM
Green hair equates to blond in anime anyway. Just like blue = black, pink = red, etc. And then black = black, red = red, etc. Japan be weird. So I never thought much about her hair.

I pretty much agree with Wolf on most things.

Egami
01-27-2015, 07:26 PM
...what happened to Banon and Arvis after the world was destroyed...

Having just replayed VI, this is one of the things that I felt were poorly handled in the game. With regards to Banon, you could ask what happened to him after the Thamasa arc in the WoB. He just disappears and wasn't even present at the feast with the emperor. You'd think that the leader of The Returners, a character who is made out to be important and who in one instance you had to prevent from dying or you'll get a game over and in another (while defending Narshe) you had to prevent Kefka from reaching would be better handled. But the game abruptly X-Zoned him out of the script.

Now, following Spooniest's format...

Celes, Edgar and Setzer sitting in a bar...
What makes them special? If you are up for a CES challenge, these are the only mandatory characters you need to have in order to be able to finish the game. But why these in particular? The reasons for this are quite utilitarian and not related in any way to the story: you need Edgar to dive Figaro Castle in order to get to the town Setzer is in and you need Setzer in order to get the airship so that you can land on Kefka's tower. What about Celes? Oh...no reason really other than there seemed to be a very vocal Team Celes front on the developer team who probably didn't like Terra very much. It could well have been Mog for all we know and it would have been the same. But then, after you beat Kefka, even if you didn't recruit her, Terra joins anyway showing that she is essential in some way, so why not structure the WoR in such a way that you need to get her in the party before heading to Kefka's tower? Especially given the dilemma of what would happen to her (being half esper) if magic were to disappear.

The above relates to what is perhaps may main beef with the game. The lack of a clear central character or set of characters amidst the large cast in this game is, as I see it, the result of an inconsistent narrative. It is as if the writers were pulling the plot in opposite directions and the end result was a mixed bag. While a common criticism about VI is that the story basically comes to a halt once you are in the WoR, I think the head scratchers start showing themselves early on in the WoB.

Let's neutralize your pow...you know what? Let's not
Before ascending to godlike status Kefka is seen easily neutralizing the powers of several espers at once and making short work of them. But for some reason when he is far more powerful than he was back then and after he had become the source of magic himself, Kefka seems unable or unwilling to neutralize the powers of the party. His dungeon doesn't even features something to that effect like, for example, how the Fanatic's Tower forces you to use only magic or how in FF VIII your powers are sealed by Ultimecia in her castle and you have to fight your way to get them back.

That was Magic! M...A...G...I...C!!!
After you get out of Narshe and are on your way to Figaro Castle with Terra and Locke you can use Terra's magic during fights but for some reason Locke doesn't seems to mind. Have Edgar join your team and he along with Edgar will go nuts about it.

So I got these Magicite things...
How are they used again? While the game goes out of it's way to explain the mechanics behind Gau's Rage, Multi Party battles and the like, for some reason it glosses over the mechanics of the Espers and learning Magic from them. That is, of course, unless you happen to talk to that very missable ghost at the entrance of Zozo or in the training building later on in Narshe. Odd that such an important mechanic of the game was given this treatment.

VG Old School
02-20-2015, 06:30 AM
How is that purple calamari Ultros able to get on land and airborne? :lol:

And are Leafers the cockroaches of the world? They do live past the ruining of the world.