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Wolf Kanno
01-08-2015, 05:52 PM
So I plan on doing a Top 25 JRPGs in the future but thought it would be fun if I did a bottom ten as well since I'm so vocal about my feelings when it concerns not liking something. I want to get the negative out of the way though and so today I will start my Bottom Ten JRPGs. I'll post number ten in a few hours but I will let you all start taking bets on what is going to be on the list. It's may surprise you all... :shifty:

Let me give you some criteria for the list.

1. Must be games I've owned. I've played a few more titles than the ones listed here that I might have added but that created some backlog issues and some of those games are bad enough not to deserve to be mentioned again less some poor schmuck decide to unearth it and find out for themselves and these games simply deserve to be forgotten.

2. They must be games that I've played a good chunk of the way through. I'm not counting something where I played the intro and moved onto more exciting games. While a lousy intro is a bad sign, it doesn't always mean it's a bad game. I feel you need to get a ways in and determine you really don't like what it's offering to really feel a game is bad. I also feel there have a been a few titles that didn't grab me very well in the beginning that perhaps I just needed to give it another fair shot.

10. Xenosaga Episode II: Jenseits von Got and Bose
9. Thousand Arms
8. Revelations: Persona
7. Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII
6. Valkyria Chronicles
5. White Knight Chronicles
4. Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings
3. Lufia; Ruins of Lore
2. Final fantasy XIII
1. Hydlide

Ayen
01-08-2015, 05:53 PM
Ooh, another negative list. I knew I could count on you!

Pumpkin
01-08-2015, 05:53 PM
:hyper:

Fynn
01-08-2015, 05:53 PM
I think I know at least two. They're both FFs.

Pumpkin
01-08-2015, 05:54 PM
If FFIX is on there I will cry at you because it's just a video game but I don't have much going on right now

The Man
01-08-2015, 05:55 PM
If FFX and FFXIII aren't on this list, I will eat my hat. (Disclaimer: I do not have a hat).

Fynn
01-08-2015, 05:56 PM
If FFX and FFXIII aren't on this list, I will eat my hat. (Disclaimer: I do not have a hat).

Then stop making promises you can't keep!

I'm starting to think the first Persona may be on this list... :shifty:

Ayen
01-08-2015, 05:56 PM
Rest assured that if FFXIII isn't on this list, it isn't going to be on anybody's list.

BoB's doesn't count.

Pike
01-08-2015, 05:57 PM
Basically just take a list of my top ten RPGs. Bam, you have Wolf Kanno's Bottom Ten RPGs.

Fynn
01-08-2015, 05:59 PM
Now I'm sad, becasue I've come to realize that Wolf Kanno probably knows loads more obscure terrible JRPGs than me and I feel like a loser :(

Why wasn't I born a decade earlier in the US? :onoes:

Pumpkin
01-08-2015, 06:00 PM
Pike and Wolf Kanno: Mortal Video Game Enemies since the dawn of time

61745

Ayen
01-08-2015, 06:00 PM
Now I'm sad, becasue I've come to realize that Wolf Kanno probably knows loads more obscure terrible JRPGs than me and I feel like a loser http://home.eyesonff.com/images/eoff_smilies/frown.gif

Why wasn't I born a decade earlier in the US? http://home.eyesonff.com/images/eoff_smilies/oh%20noes.gif

I'm confident I won't know the majority of games on either of Wolf's lists, and I take pride in this fact.

Now watch, the list will have a bunch of JRPGs I played because I said that.

Fynn
01-08-2015, 06:29 PM
Basically just take a list of my top ten RPGs. Bam, you have Wolf Kanno's Bottom Ten RPGs.

I thought you mostly played WRPGs, though?

VeloZer0
01-08-2015, 08:28 PM
Bottom 10 RPGs is an interesting topic. When most people go on about the 'worst' of whatever they are usually referring to somewhat known titles that they don't like. When in reality the worst of a bunch are always horribly un-finished, un-playable messes that make any game you have ever completed look like a finely polished masterpiece. They are also so bad that no-one ever plays them and they don't get any recognition.

So are we getting the list of RPGs that WK didn't like, or the list of obscure and horrible games that WK has come across.

Ayen
01-08-2015, 08:32 PM
*starts playing guitar*

He's gonna take you back to the past
To play those troutty games that suck ass
He rather have a Buffalo
Take a diarrhea dump in his ear
He'd rather eat the rotten asshole
Of a roadkill skunk and down it with beer!
He's the angry Wolf Kanno
The game sucks so bad he makes up his own words
He's the angry, super pissed off Wolf Kanno
His posts are so long you start to rub your head
He's the angry Wolf Kanno!

Galuf
01-08-2015, 08:33 PM
why do i get the feeling FF2 is going to be hated again. FF2 is like my favourite of the nes era

Vyk
01-08-2015, 08:46 PM
I will be very interested in this

Galuf
01-08-2015, 08:49 PM
*starts playing guitar*

He's gonna take you back to the past
To play those troutty games that suck ass
He rather have a Buffalo
Take a diarrhea dump in his ear
He'd rather eat the rotten asshole
Of a roadkill skunk and down it with beer!
He's the angry Wolf Kanno
The game sucks so bad he makes up his own words
He's the angry, super pissed off Wolf Kanno
His posts are so long you start to rub your head
He's the angry Wolf Kanno!


AWKN FTW

Fynn
01-08-2015, 09:16 PM
why do i get the feeling FF2 is going to be hated again. FF2 is like my favourite of the nes era

I think II is pretty safe. Be afraid if you're an X or XIII fan, as others have noted :exdee:

Del Murder
01-08-2015, 09:23 PM
Wouldn't this list automatically exclude the worst RPGs since the reviews and word of mouth would dissuade anyone from playing them in the first place?

Ayen
01-08-2015, 09:28 PM
why do i get the feeling FF2 is going to be hated again. FF2 is like my favourite of the nes era

I think II is pretty safe. Be afraid if you're an X or XIII fan, as others have noted :exdee:

I do not fear the Big Bad Wolf.

Madame Adequate
01-08-2015, 09:35 PM
Bottom 10 RPGs is an interesting topic. When most people go on about the 'worst' of whatever they are usually referring to somewhat known titles that they don't like. When in reality the worst of a bunch are always horribly un-finished, un-playable messes that make any game you have ever completed look like a finely polished masterpiece. They are also so bad that no-one ever plays them and they don't get any recognition.

So are we getting the list of RPGs that WK didn't like, or the list of obscure and horrible games that WK has come across.

Yeah, I was going to make a very similar post. The actual worst RPGs would probably look different from a list of those any of us personally dislike. Which will it be, Canoe?

Galuf
01-08-2015, 09:38 PM
why do i get the feeling FF2 is going to be hated again. FF2 is like my favourite of the nes era

I think II is pretty safe. Be afraid if you're an X or XIII fan, as others have noted :exdee:

i never played and im meh with xiii. just the fact FF2 gets bashed alot and cool that you seem to like it mindu was a cool guy

Pike
01-08-2015, 10:03 PM
FF2 has a lot of fans on EoFF. Actually it's probably the only game that myself and Wolf Canoe both like.

Galuf
01-08-2015, 10:10 PM
FF2 has a lot of fans on EoFF. Actually it's probably the only game that myself and Wolf Canoe both like.

Cool i didnt know that. i thought IX was EoFF's populour game

Wolf Kanno
01-08-2015, 10:51 PM
If FFX and FFXIII aren't on this list, I will eat my hat. (Disclaimer: I do not have a hat).

Lol




BoB's doesn't count.

Damn straight BoB doesn't count.


Basically just take a list of my top ten RPGs. Bam, you have Wolf Kanno's Bottom Ten RPGs.

I'm pretty confident you've only played one game on my list and even though I think you've said you like it, I doubt it would be in your top 20 RPGs.

This won't go over PC games so you may put your pitchfork away.


Bottom 10 RPGs is an interesting topic. When most people go on about the 'worst' of whatever they are usually referring to somewhat known titles that they don't like. When in reality the worst of a bunch are always horribly un-finished, un-playable messes that make any game you have ever completed look like a finely polished masterpiece. They are also so bad that no-one ever plays them and they don't get any recognition.

So are we getting the list of RPGs that WK didn't like, or the list of obscure and horrible games that WK has come across.

It will be a little of both. There are at least four high profile titles on this list but I feel only one of them is really going to be controversial... I will say that my Number 1 definitely falls into the "horribly un-finished, un-playable messes" category.

**************************************************************************************************** ***
Oddly enough, this list was actually a bit difficult for me to make and there were a few entries I was originally going to put in but felt they had some merit it to them that prevented me from actually disliking them enough to really put them in. In fact a few of the games on this list I really wish were not on this list because I honestly wanted to like them; and I will admit that two games on this list are probably only on this list to make it a a rounded number. While I'm highly critical of games, it actually takes a lot to make me dislike it.

Let me give you some criteria for the list.

1. Must be games I've owned. I've played a few more titles than the ones listed here that I might have added but that created some backlog issues and some of those games are bad enough not to deserve to be mentioned again less some poor schmuck decide to unearth it and find out for themselves and these games simply deserve to be forgotten.

2. They must be games that I've played a good chunk of the way through. I'm not counting something where I played the intro and moved onto more exciting games. While a lousy intro is a bad sign, it doesn't always mean it's a bad game. I feel you need to get a ways in and determine you really don't like what it's offering to really feel a game is bad. I also feel there have a been a few titles that didn't grab me very well in the beginning that perhaps I just needed to give it another fair shot.

With that said let's begin with Number 6 after further thought and probably the most controversial entry on this list.

#6 Valkyria Chronicles
61755

I don't feel like anyone would believe me if I said that I honestly want to like this game. I didn't go into it with some snarky bias or high standards, I actually really like the art and the music. I like the concept and I do feel that the merging of Tactical RPG with third person shooter elements is a novel and intelligent design choice. Hell I even love the game's shout-out to Skies of Arcadia. With all that said, I just can't get into this game. I play one battle to completion and then stop playing it for six months before I have the stomach to play another round and hope that this time, I'll finally discover what it is that makes people adore this game so much.

I feel part of the problem is that the game came along around the time I decided that I didn't really like the Tactical RPG genre that Japan was giving me anymore. Primarily because it's slow, doesn't really require much tactics or strategy, and comes down just mindless min/max that can be accomplished by hours of grinding that I simply don't have the time for, nor do I get any enjoyment out of. So yeah, the combat in the game often feels way too slow, the only units worth their weight are scouts and the tank, the computer cheats like hell because statistically, their units shouldn't be as good as they are compared to your characters if their gear is anything to go by, and most of the customization feels like it's there because the game is contractually obligated to have something.

Leveling units is really easy but also just feels like they didn't care, equipment upgrades are minor and by the time they started to branch out I think I gave up on it. The quirky like/dislike system seems like a novel idea but I've never seen it really affect my units like it says it does. I've had my sniper being in ideal conditions with them openly remarking on how I placed them into their love zone and still watch them miss every shot, whereas I've had units in bad state's fight on like nothing was the matter. So it just feels like a mechanic that didn't have any emphasis really placed on it in fear it might deter a newbie from having to think too much and frankly that's most of the customization system.

The plot sounds promising of a rag tag small country fighting off a big empire by a rag-tag scrappy militia who also deal with silly internal politics and constantly being placed into bad situations because the higher brass want to watch them fail but they always seem to soldier on. It's like the writer's did a marathon of Gundam anime, decided that it would be such a better series if it wasn't so gosh darn depressing and then wrote this script. For a WWII knockoff, this might be the happiest little war I ever took part of in a game and it's demeaning. The very circumstances that get Gunther into the military are a bit Hollywood-esque, but the fact they hold true to the Amuro syndrome of him also being a smurfing natural at it just makes me shake my head. The racism angle is interesting but I also feel it seems a bit forced at times. Like the writers put it in to make the story feel edgy and truer to WWII era Europe but sometimes I just felt like they were trying too hard with it. I wasn't even really bothered when Isara was killed, I think I was just hoping they would stop talking about the Darscens but we saw how that worked out. So yeah basically the plot is an excess of overly colorful anime war tropes that was rammed down my throat in the early 2000s when I still cared about that stuff.

The most unforgivable aspect of the game is it's menu system. Whoever designed the menu system for this game needs to be dragged out into the street and shot. Why do you separate cutscenes and make me have to keep selecting each individual one? Just show all the cutscenes until we get to the battle and then let me choose if I want to save or fap about in the barracks, what is up with this stupid micromanagement bulltrout for a plot I just discussed I didn't like? I can't even skip the cutscenes, I have to play them all if I want to get to the actual next mission so what purpose does making me have to watch a silly dialogue section only to back me up to the menu and have to choose the next one. smurf you Valkyria Chronicles.

I still hope to finish this game someday but at the rate I'm going the game will probably be receiving it's 15 year anniversary remake that will fix some of these issues when I do. I know I'm going to get a lot of hate for this one, but understand it's one of the two I placed on here to round off the list. I want to like it and perhaps when the stars align again and the SRPG genre magically returns to good favor with me, I'll finally absorb it all and bask in it's awesomeness with its fellow fans. Until then, it's one of three (hint hint) games in my PS3 library that I simply ponder for a quick second about playing before coming back to my senses and moving onto something better.

Ayen
01-08-2015, 11:03 PM
Holy crap, it's a game I actually heard of. I haven't played it, mind you, but I have heard of it.

Wolf Kanno
01-08-2015, 11:04 PM
Holy crap, it's a game I actually heard of. I haven't played it, mind you, but I have heard of it.

Don't worry, the next one will be obscure for most of you. ;)

Madame Adequate
01-08-2015, 11:10 PM
Oh look a really good game ;)

Wolf Kanno
01-08-2015, 11:16 PM
Oh look a really good game ;)

To be fair, I'm sitting on top of four other games that are more worthy of the placement but I've not been in a masochistic mood to try them. Dawn of Mana is just sitting there taunting me... *shivers*

Del Murder
01-09-2015, 12:31 AM
You must have played some really good RPGs if this makes your 10 worst.

Ayen
01-09-2015, 12:35 AM
Holy crap, it's a game I actually heard of. I haven't played it, mind you, but I have heard of it.

Don't worry, the next one will be obscure for most of you. ;)

Challenge accepted :colbert:

Pumpkin
01-09-2015, 01:15 AM
I'm planning to play Dawn of Mana :(

Spuuky
01-09-2015, 01:33 AM
This game is probably the best game to have ever come out on the PS3.

It kind of depresses me that one of your complaints is that those are the only good classes. Shocktroopers are great, Snipers are great, Lancers are great, Engineers are pretty okay. You certainly don't need to min-max anything, you can just play through with basically whatever you want, unless you really insist on super-high scores/times. Also, this game would actually be pretty bad if the AI did not cheat their statistics, because then the game would be trivially easy.

Vyk
01-09-2015, 01:35 AM
Not to nitpick, but it just came out on Steam a month or so ago, so people who previously did not have access to it, may be playing through it, or going to in the future. Might want to spoiler the one bit

krissy
01-09-2015, 02:51 AM
you weren't kidding when you said controversial

it's probably one of the best games of its generation

Pete for President
01-09-2015, 04:25 AM
I liked the game, but I do have some issues with it. Coincidentally enough I have just watched this episode of Extra Credits and I feel Valkyria Chronicles is a prefect example of disjoint between story and mechanics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ44hVeVdEw

Imo, this game is way too forgiving, mostly because the option to save between every turn. With this there is no need to ever lose a member of your team. If the risk of losing a member was considerably higher (like without the option to save would provide) I would care about my team a lot more. I'd feel like a bad captain for losing a member. I would be involved. The game tries to be kind of rogue, and then decides not to. It clashes with the tone it's going for.

And this snowballs into a lot of issues: the surprises some missions throw at you have become completely void. Reload, reposition, and counter the surprise like you knew. The enemy is therefor never fearsome or as powerful as the story and cutscenes would suggest. There is no sense of threat and for a game about war that's a huge flaw. The player is never on the back foot, and the crew feels way too powerful to be this scraggy band of militia. The entire extra crew list doesn't matter as you'll never need replacements. That one casualty in the cutscene doesn't hurt as much as you've been a good cap'n anyways for having lost no other members of the crew. I think the impact would be much greater if it had a "not you too, not another one" effect.

It wouldn't go on my worst RPG list, but it didn't make it to my top 25 games (http://home.eyesonff.com/showthread.php/154226-Pete-s-top-25-videogame-random-award-show!/page14) list either.

Mirage
01-09-2015, 04:35 AM
wut,valkyria chronicles was a lot of fun

Wolf Kanno
01-09-2015, 05:53 AM
You must have played some really good RPGs if this makes your 10 worst.

It's my bottom ten not my top worst, basically if I was ranking all my RPG these would be on the bottom. I honestly only really hate maybe four games on this list while the other six are either disappointments (like my next entry) or I just feel utterly indifferent to it like VC is. If I could make it through a mission without being bored or a cutscene without wincing, I wouldn't have had to put it here.

If I listed the games I truly hated, many of which I don't own because why would I? Then you would probably agree more.


I'm planning to play Dawn of Mana :(

It's got some serious quirky design problems. Still go for it, maybe it will motivate me to crack it open again.


This game is probably the best game to have ever come out on the PS3.

It kind of depresses me that one of your complaints is that those are the only good classes. Shocktroopers are great, Snipers are great, Lancers are great, Engineers are pretty okay. You certainly don't need to min-max anything, you can just play through with basically whatever you want, unless you really insist on super-high scores/times. Also, this game would actually be pretty bad if the AI did not cheat their statistics, because then the game would be trivially easy.

Shocktroopers are good except for their crappy mobility which severely slows down combat, I'd rather just head shot them with the more mobile Scouts. Lancers are situational units whose logistical problems make them not worth it, and my experience with the snipers is that the enemies are far better than yours, not to mention they have even worse mobility than the shocktroppers. Mechanics are good for keeping the tank alive so you have me there. I mean I just mentioned that I find the combat slow and boring so damn straight I'm going to ignore the slower specialty units and use the high mobile units to clear a path for my death dealing tank. With that said I do use shocktroopers to defend bases but outside of a few maps it's rare for enough of the enemy to still be alive to try and retake one of their bases.


Not to nitpick, but it just came out on Steam a month or so ago, so people who previously did not have access to it, may be playing through it, or going to in the future. Might want to spoiler the one bit

Fixed


you weren't kidding when you said controversial

it's probably one of the best games of its generation

jm3deGWKe08


I liked the game, but I do have some issues with it. Coincidentally enough I have just watched this episode of Extra Credits and I feel Valkyria Chronicles is a prefect example of disjoint between story and mechanics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ44hVeVdEw

Imo, this game is way too forgiving, mostly because the option to save between every turn. With this there is no need to ever lose a member of your team. If the risk of losing a member was considerably higher (like without the option to save would provide) I would care about my team a lot more. I'd feel like a bad captain for losing a member. I would be involved. The game tries to be kind of rogue, and then decides not to. It clashes with the tone it's going for.

And this snowballs into a lot of issues: the surprises some missions throw at you have become completely void. Reload, reposition, and counter the surprise like you knew. The enemy is therefor never fearsome or as powerful as the story and cutscenes would suggest. There is no sense of threat and for a game about war that's a huge flaw. The player is never on the back foot, and the crew feels way too powerful to be this scraggy band of militia. The entire extra crew list doesn't matter as you'll never need replacements. That one casualty in the cutscene doesn't hurt as much as you've been a good cap'n anyways for having lost no other members of the crew. I think the impact would be much greater if it had a "not you too, not another one" effect.

It wouldn't go on my worst RPG list, but it didn't make it to my top 25 games (http://home.eyesonff.com/showthread.php/154226-Pete-s-top-25-videogame-random-award-show!/page14) list either.

Thank you and I agree about the the game's disjointed gameplay/story connection. Seriously I've yet to lose a unit in my playthrough and the only fight where I get seriously pushed back in was against a scripted opponent I'm not suppose to beat for story reasons.

In all honesty, if this wasn't restricted to just JRPGs I own, it wouldn't be on this list.

Wolf Kanno
01-09-2015, 06:09 AM
Okay scratch that, the game I was originally going to do actually does deserve to be higher on this list so I'm not going to do the obscure one yet.

#10 Xenosaga Episode II: Jenseits von Gut und Böse
61768

Solid proof that writing can't save a game hampered by poor design and questionable executive changes. I don't feel I really need to explain why this game is bad, it's commonly accused by the fanbase and even Namco and Monolith Soft for killing the franchise in its prime. When Monolith Soft created Xenosaga 1 and 2 for the DS, Episode 1 was largely untouched while episode 2 was heavily re-written and it's this version of Episode 2 that Episode 3 is based off not the original. Talk about trying to bury a shameful past.

For those unfamiliar with the series. Xenosaga is a spiritual successor to Squaresoft's PS1 cult hit Xenogears. It follows the outline of Perfect Works but it's more of a re-imagining than a true prequel due to legal problems. The first game was meant to be a "FFX Killer" and while it did not achieve such lofty goals it did prove to be a good, if flawed, intro to one of the most complex JRPGs stories on the PS2. The original Episode 1 was suppose to be central character Shion Uzuki's entire storyline but executive meddling and poor management had her chapter broken up into a trilogy. In fact in the original trailer for Episode 1, scenes from this game can be seen in it using Episode 1's engine. The mismanagement of this game saw the departure of Soraya Saga (FFVI, Xenogears) from the series and in her frustration she had a now infamous venting session on her blog about everything cut from this game by the executive and why she was kicked out of the company.

Like Valkyria Chronicles, I have some reservation about putting this game on the list but seeing how often Assassin's Creed 2 gets hailed as the all time favorite by being a vastly improved redesign of an inferior game, I felt it was fair to place an incredibly botched sequel to a promising franchise on this list. So let's begin the breakdown.

First things first, Episode II changed the art direction drastically. The first game utilized a heavy anime art style that was make or break for some people but I don't know anyone who was happy with Episode 2's art change.

Examples:

Episode 1
61769
Episode 2
61770

My eyes! Anyway to add insult to injury several of the key voice actors were also changed in this title with a few better choices (chaos) and a few bad ones (Shion, KOS-MOS, MOMO and some side characters). In fact this might have been higher on the list had Crispin "my voice is sex personified" Freeman hadn't returned to reprise Albedo.

The original game had a beautiful if poorly utilized OST by Yasunori Mitsuda, in fact the original game has some serious audio design problems because several locations didn't even have audio playing of any kind including towns and ships, allegedly Mitsuda was so annoyed by how misused his score had been he refused to compose for the sequels. Episode 2 rectified this by hiring two composers, one of which was Yuki Kaijura (.hack anime, Resevoir Chronicles Tsubasa, Noir) and the other was Shinji Hosoe, Kaijura wrote beautiful work for the game's cutscenes. Hosoe wrote incredibly generic arcade style music for the actual game part.

Examples:

Hosoe (Episode 2)
_Gf0MWMLCM4
VZu5xf-N6g8
Notice how generic this feels. Compare that Kaijura's tracks from the same game or Mitsuda's work from the first game.

Kaijura (Episode 2)
tNwKvbq29jY

Mitsuda (Episode 1)
9ylnNhsKU_k

When episode 3 was being made, of the two composers only Kaijura got a call back to return.

Episode 1 had an interesting battle system that was a huge step up from Xenogears. Characters had special attacks that they could level up and combo together which made each character distinct. Every character learned their own set of spells but it was possible to actually teach these skills to other party members and then you could also learn skills from equipment and equip up to three of those skills for further development. Did I mention you could also use tech points to permanently raise stats?

Episode 2? Combos Finishers are removed though a few characters now have attacks that either launch opponents in the air or smash them into the ground. While their attacks still hold unique properties to make them all feel a bit different, it becomes quickly obvious the game wasn't balanced to make this equal opportunity, Characters like Shion and chaos who were powerhouses in the first game are relegated to situational at best. Even worse is that all the characters now share a generic skill pool which allows you to teach them everything. Only Shion gets a few unique moves. Funny enough little magical schoolgirl wannabe MOMO, is easily the game's best character. I can't even explain it but she always seems to do double damage over the cyborg, master swrodsman, and the two avatars of order and chaos, go figure.

In terms of mecha combat, Episode 1 had highly customizable AWGS to play with, they weren't as impressive as you would think but at least tinkering with them could be fun if you ever felt bothered to use them. The E.S. units on the other hand, though better designed and more important to the plot, you only got three of them and their customization was incredibly limited and unsatisfying. The dungeons designed around them were worse, I'll take Xenogears poorly designed platforming hell over walking through boring linear dungeons that are rarely even fun to look at.

Speaking of dungeons, they are mostly terrible, either linear as hell or just tedious design that overstays it's welcome. Hell one of the most obnoxious dungeons involves going through it twice with a second redesign

Combat is changed to utilize a new system where performing certain attack combos had a chance to break the enemies guard. Once this happened, a character who had a move that had the launch or down attribute could knock the enemy into the air or smash them into the ground. By using the Boost system to chain together party member turns you could perform long chains of attacks while the enemy was defenseless and taking full damage. If this all sounds vaguely familiar it's because FFXIII borrowed this system. On paper it sounds really cool and in fact it starts off pretty fun and even by end game the boss battles are involving and require real strategy; the problem is that the regular encounters become a chore because you have to always break their guard to win and by mid-game the regular enemies have HP in the field of end-game FF bosses. A battle against six infantry soldier in the final dungeon takes longer to complete than the actual final boss of the game. That is how tedious and ridiculous this gets. Even worse is that even though the enemies can be seen on the field and theoretically avoided the narrow road ways and the enemies high mobility makes it nearly impossible if you don't have a stage specific trap to slow them down so many of these fights are unavoidable. Did I mention that knocking them in the air is often the best choice and two party members have no air options for combat making them useless?

There are no traditional towns and the only shop in the game involves a quest where you have to sell stuff to the merchant to pay off a minor characters debt. This brings me to the GS campaign which is the only side quest in the game. The Good Samaritan campaign or GS for short involves collecting missions from NPCs in the game's few non-dungeon areas and doing simple fetch quests or kill certain enemies which largely involves backtracking through the game's terrible dungeons. The quest is designed to be pretty much impossible to complete in a single playthrough as certain quests open in new game+ which is not that special. You mainly get rewarded dual techs which are flashy super attacks two characters can perform that are almost never as useful as a well timed combo and swimsuits which change the characters looks and give more TP in battle for the skill pool you'll largely have completed by end game anyway. So yeah it's pretty redundant. Episode 1 actually had some fun mini-games this one is just kind of a chore and worse it involves tons of backtracking when you probably want to just keep on the stories momentum.

The story is probably the only good thing about the game besides Kaijura's music and I'm afraid this is where I'm going to be doing my Adults in Charlie Brown impression for those who have never played the game because most of this info won't mean anything to you. :wcanoe:

It begins where the first game left off and involves crazy car chases, meeting Jin "I'm totally not an expy of Citan" Uzuki, and curry. The plot then takes a detour to finally explain the backstory to Jr. Albedo, Gainun, and the truth about Sakura Mizrahi and the origins of MOMO. Barring the awful gameplay, the story is actually well told and it really changes how you perceive Albedo who by the end of Episode 1 was considered and absolute monster by the fanbase only to have Episode 2 really explain why he's so smurfed up and make him a more complex character. The URTV story arc is actually handled well, it's the second disc trying to move the story forward where the plot goes wrong. Introducing a ton of new characters whom the plot treats like they were in the first game when they were barely alluded to. Combined with Episode 2 removing the useful database system that the first game used to actually fill us in on terminology and history the game didn't feel like wasting cutscene time on ended up making this whole section a bit jarring.

Episode 1 spent a good chunk of its time building up the consequences and issues of returning to the forbidden planet Miltia and when Episode 2 finally sends you there, it's actually pretty underwhelming. Two seriously boring dungeons, an amusing nod to the Vanderkaum fight in Xenogears, and Jin being cryptic about his involvement in the plot along with introducing two more characters that sound more important than they are and then it's all over and it's time to go stop the big bad. The second disc is a missed opportunity and was largely rewritten and made more significant. It doesn't help that Pied Piper, a crummy cell phone game, actually felt it was important to sit down and actually explain the whole conflict between the Federation, Immigrant Fleet, and what Ormus/U-Tic are trying to accomplish in the story whereas the high budget console entry couldn't really be bothered. Also Albedo does a few too many fake out death scenes for my taste with the final one being absolutely hammilicious that it would make Ultros and Gilgamesh proud. In the end the game doesn't really answer many questions from the first game, the few accomplishment in moving the plot forward are underwhelming due to poor writing and lack of set-up, and so you're ultimately left with a feeling you just played a side story as opposed to an honest to goodness plot moving sequel. It's main saving grace is the URTV plot and finally introducing us to Yuriev who pretty much bitch slaps all the other antagonists in the series and steals the throne as the true Big Bad.

https://38.media.tumblr.com/14ebfcbc6126bfcedbbd535af2f8fc34/tumblr_n6cn4pcSdg1r8u5tao3_250.gif

Xenosaga Episode 2 is the poster child of why you should never let marketing dictate creative design. It's largely here because the game is largely pointless, even to Saga fans as the creators chose to ignore it and have it redone than actually accept this is what they wanted. With that said, this game is probably the most played entry on this list from back in the days when I was a total i.e. Tool. I still feel it has some merits but overall I cannot recommend it except to die hard fans who want the full Xeno experience.

Spuuky
01-09-2015, 08:19 AM
Episode 2 is a bad game. I still love it personally, because I like Xenosaga that much, but I will concede that it is a bad game.

Big strikes: Art changes, voice changes, AWFUL AWFUL COMBAT SYSTEM

Good things: Story, music

So basically, I agree. My biggest complaint, by far, about the combat system is that regular non-boss fights take FOREVER. And then you get just abuse elemental chains to make the game trivial, or you slog through eternal fights.

I have to add (with total seriousness) that the highlight of Episode 2 for me is that in some ways it represents the absolute height of Xenosaga's unrepentantly pretentious symbolism, which is one of my favorite things about the series. You quite literally fight a cathedral, for instance, which uses attacks with names like "A Lily Bathed in Deception." What in this vast universe could possibly be better than that?

Wolf Kanno
01-09-2015, 08:35 AM
Oh yeah the symbolism did get put to eleven in this game. I did mention that Albedo's send off was hammilicious. For those who need a visual to understand what I mean...

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140824090749/xenosaga/images/4/4b/Vlcsnap-2011-05-05-18h16m21s225.png

Fun Xeno fact for the non-Xeno players. The "angels" are little robot girls he brutally murdered in the first game.

I do still like Episode 2 though my love is more of a guilty pleasure because I know it's so bad. :shifty:

metagloria
01-09-2015, 01:44 PM
I really enjoyed the Xenosaga trilogy, but II is the only one where one boss was so hard/confusing I literally couldn't progress (Pilum and Scutum in the AGWS or whatever).

Pumpkin
01-09-2015, 03:44 PM
The design changes were a bit of a shock to me, and I didn't like them, but other than that I liked the second game fine. Not as much as the other two, but I still really liked it.

Albedo is my favourite villain and his relationship with Jr. is one of the best in game I feel, and this game really focused on that and it had some amazing scenes to it. That being said, I don't feel like enough story progression happened in II because they were busy telling the past

Episode III is a masterpiece though and I think they did an awesome job of combining the first two game and fixing both their kinks. Like the story in Episode I was great and well told, but the battle style was convoluted and unnecessarily complicated and difficult (especially for 11 year old me, who didn't realize to switch Techs to HI until the Kookai Foundation, since it wasn't well explained and is something pretty important to making the game that much easier), but III I feel is where the series hit its peak, and its a shame II turned off so many fans that they didn't play it

Del Murder
01-09-2015, 04:33 PM
Sadly I have never played Xenosaga, let alone the sequel. Spuuky's (and others) constant praise of it makes me want to play it but I'm afraid of being affected by the generation gap if I tried to dust off the ol' PS2 (plus wired controllers in my current situation are very dangerous!). Too bad they never rereleased it.

Fynn
01-09-2015, 04:35 PM
Here's hoping for that HD collection, though!

Pumpkin
01-09-2015, 05:01 PM
Oh also the G.S. Campaign in two was awesome and I wish that was in all the games

Spuuky
01-09-2015, 05:02 PM
Sadly I have never played Xenosaga, let alone the sequel. Spuuky's (and others) constant praise of it makes me want to play it but I'm afraid of being affected by the generation gap if I tried to dust off the ol' PS2 (plus wired controllers in my current situation are very dangerous!). Too bad they never rereleased it.It has definitely aged.

Ayen
01-09-2015, 06:18 PM
I only played Episode I. I shall keep it this way.

Spuuky
01-09-2015, 06:45 PM
I only played Episode I. I shall keep it this way.Your loss, because Episode 3 is great.

Depression Moon
01-09-2015, 06:51 PM
I expect Quest 64 to make this.

Ayen
01-09-2015, 06:57 PM
I only played Episode I. I shall keep it this way.Your loss, because Episode 3 is great.

Is it possible to skip 2 and go straight to 3?

Pumpkin
01-09-2015, 07:35 PM
Yeah, they have a database to keep you up to touch with it. Plus like I said, there is little actually story progression in II, but you will miss some backstory with Jr. and Albedo. But again it is in the database if you don't mind reading it

But Episode III really is excellent, I would recommend it

Spuuky
01-09-2015, 07:40 PM
I only played Episode I. I shall keep it this way.Your loss, because Episode 3 is great.

Is it possible to skip 2 and go straight to 3?Sure, just watch/read a Let's Play Xenosaga episode 2.

Ayen
01-09-2015, 07:42 PM
Pfft. Hello, Wikipedia.

Spuuky
01-09-2015, 07:52 PM
Pfft. Hello, Wikipedia.Not even remotely the same for a game in which tone and symbolism are so important.

Wolf Kanno
01-10-2015, 05:23 AM
#9 Thousand Arms
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I wouldn't be surprised if some of you may have heard of this game, but I highly doubt anyone outside of maybe NeoCracker and a select few others have actually played this one. This was a PS1 game that Atlus squeaked in around the time Final Fantasy VIII and Majora's Mask were making headlines in gaming mags. It might be a good thing too because this game wasn't exactly great. I think a few magazines liked its unique gameplay but hindsight shows us that this is not the case.

So waht the hell is Thousand Arms you may be asking? It's probably the first Dating Sim RPG to be released in the West, and usually its failure was cited as a reason why companies didn't bother with bringing the genre over here. You play the lecherous Meis Triumph, heir to a mighty Spirit Blacksmith family who has the power to imbue magic into weapons through the help of Sacred Maidens. He embarks on a journey to improve his ability by awakening the Sacred Flames before the local evil empire uses the Sacred Flame for their own nefarious world dominating purposes. If that plot sounds pretty generic to you, well it is and there are no real major twists or surprises either. About the only saving grace of the plot is how absolutely tongue in cheek it is. It's filled with fourth wall breaking moments and I would almost argue that it borders more on the line of parody of the genre. The game doesn't take itself seriously which is about the only reason why you may find yourself actually finishing it because sadly there is not much else to keep you interested. I am honestly struggling to remember the plot and Wikipedia doesn't seem to want to help me get a refresher.

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So Mei wanders the world, recruits a few guys who are quickly ignored in favor of his harem of cute girls who all fulfill some anime girl cliche and then you date them so they will like you more and unlock new powers and upgrades for the weapons Meis forges. The dating-sim aspect is probably the only decent part of the actual gameplay. Sadly it's a bit simplistic and the only real hard part is the initial trial and error aspect of learning to say the right thing to the girls. Even when you get past that part you quickly learn that the amount of different date dialogue is sadly more limited than a 40+ hour game needed. So you'll quickly start ranking pretty high with the early girl characters due to eventually learning their pattern but then you'll also run out spells they teach.

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Combat is pretty much the main reason why this game is on the list. This game may have one of the worst combat systems I've ever had the misfortune to encounter except for maybe #1 on this list. Your combat party consists of three characters but only one of them actually fights, the other two sit in the back and either perform a special support skill which is rarely useful or you can have them use one of their extremely limited spell or item options. Only the front line fighter can fight, if you have a support character with offensive magic, they can't use it though they can use offensive items. The game never really explains why. This get's especially weird because the enemies you fight often don't have this issue, so some battles feel like one character taking on three enemies of which they can only hit whoever is on the front line while they can all hit them, while the other two party members sit back and cheer them on while they get the ass-kicking of a lifetime. You can switch characters between turns but here's where we get to another issue, most of the party sucks. Meis, is pretty much the dominating character, he gets better weapon and armor options than the other characters, every time he awakens a new Sacred Flame he gets access to a new overpowered summon spells. In fact most boss battles quickly devolve to Meis just summon spamming until he can't anymore and then hoping you took off enough health to finish it off in the next few rounds. The other party members are fun for the novelty but if you want to actually get anywhere in the game you'll probably spend the majority of it using Meis.

Battles are a bit tedious but the game also gets a few cheap difficulty boosts where you start encountering bosses who can perform moves that actually hit your whole party. Did I mention that outside of a very few select spells and one summon you can't actually use healing abilities on your back party? They can only heal the lead character and so you sometime find yourself in situations where a powerful boss may wipe out your support team and you now get to do the fun strategy of healing every other turn you're not attacking. Despite all of this, the game is not terribly difficult but the combat system just feels like it's one arbitrary handicap after another and is the only reason why the game feels tough at times.
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Despite being a Steampunk setting the dungeon and world are fairly forgettable though I still feel some of the side characters are fun. The girls get the most development and spotlight with the two male party members getting their initial intro and then shoved aside to make more room for eccentric anime chicks for Meis to totally lech over. It's a quirky PS1 RPG but one that has too many issues and not enough good to make it something I would recommend to anyone accept the person who feels they've played everything and want something new.

Ayen
01-10-2015, 05:32 AM
Never heard of it. You knew it was going to happen eventually.

Pumpkin
01-10-2015, 05:33 AM
Its a shame it apparently sucks because I really like dating sim RPGs :(

Wolf Kanno
01-10-2015, 05:35 AM
Its a shame it apparently sucks because I really like dating sim RPGs :(

Honestly, you shoudl still try it, despite the awful gameplay I think the story and characters would save it for you.

Pumpkin
01-10-2015, 05:36 AM
I might after I get through the 16-18 games I have left before I make my own list :P

Scotty_ffgamer
01-10-2015, 05:59 AM
I kept thinking "Wait, I didn't know Thousand Arms was a Dating sim/rpg hybrid." And then I realized I was thinking of Wild Arms.

Wolf Kanno
01-10-2015, 06:08 AM
I expect Quest 64 to make this.

Hate to break it to you but I don't own a N64 so it doesn't fit the criteria I'm using. Though if I was doing an actual 10 worst games of all time, you can bet your ass it would be on it. ;)


I kept thinking "Wait, I didn't know Thousand Arms was a Dating sim/rpg hybrid." And then I realized I was thinking of Wild Arms.

Lol, the idea of trying to date Cecilia or Kanon though tempting would probably end poorly for Rudy and Ashley.

Ayen
01-10-2015, 06:13 AM
I kept thinking "Wait, I didn't know Thousand Arms was a Dating sim/rpg hybrid." And then I realized I was thinking of Wild Arms.

Too many arms.

Fynn
01-10-2015, 06:15 AM
Oh 90's Atlus. How weird you were.

Wolf Kanno
01-10-2015, 06:19 AM
Oh 90's Atlus. How weird you were.

Well they did have stiff competition from Working Design

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Fynn
01-10-2015, 06:45 AM
Oh 90's Atlus. How weird you were.

Well they did have stiff competition from Working Design

61823

Oh wow.

Vyk
01-10-2015, 07:35 AM
That's too bad. Thousand Arms was one of the many PS1 RPGs that was on my list to eventually test out, especially back in the day. I think it was the art style though. And I too like dating sims sprinkled into my RPGs, as rare as they are. And even more rarely done well. So probably dodged a bullet on that one. RPGs were so weird in that era. Beyond the Beyond was the ugliest game ever at the time. There was that super expensive light gun themed RPG. Rhapsody the musical adventure RPG-lite. And this. It was all like a JRPG acid trip

Wolf Kanno
01-10-2015, 07:47 AM
That's too bad. Thousand Arms was one of the many PS1 RPGs that was on my list to eventually test out, especially back in the day. I think it was the art style though. And I too like dating sims sprinkled into my RPGs, as rare as they are. And even more rarely done well. So probably dodged a bullet on that one. RPGs were so weird in that era. Beyond the Beyond was the ugliest game ever at the time. There was that super expensive light gun themed RPG. Rhapsody the musical adventure RPG-lite. And this. It was all like a JRPG acid trip

By all means still try it out. It's definitely an interesting trip but lord knows it's the flashbacks concerning the combat system that keeps me from digging it out and playing it again, though I'm probably due another playthrough.

To be honest it's that acid trip quality I really miss about the genre from back then. I missed the really experimental element going on in a lot of the games I mean barring FF almost everything else Square released in that time frame was radically different from another. Not like today where many of the franchises have become set in a formula and it comes down to whether you like one companies brand of poison over another. I think it's why a lot of RPG gamers are starting to turn more towards the indie scene, to get that raw artistic drive in their games again.

Shauna
01-10-2015, 10:59 AM
I remember trying this game out once. I didn't get far enough in to hate it.

Maybe I'll give it a whirl. Once I've finished Wild Arms 2.

Rocket Edge
01-10-2015, 02:08 PM
If the absolute abomination that is FF XIII isn't number 1 I'll lose all faith in you Wolf.

Ayen
01-10-2015, 09:05 PM
FFXIII wished it was cool enough to be an abomination.

Fox
01-10-2015, 09:20 PM
If the absolute abomination that is FF XIII isn't number 1 I'll lose all faith in you Wolf.

This is a 'Worst RPGs' list with Valkyria Chronicles on; I wouldn't hold out much hope of it making sense ;)

Galuf
01-10-2015, 10:20 PM
i havent played any games with this art style...

Wolf Kanno
01-10-2015, 10:23 PM
I remember trying this game out once. I didn't get far enough in to hate it.
It starts off promising but around the 20 hour mark everything starts to really get old. I think in both of my playthroughs of the game I often rush towards the end because the gameplay can't hold my interest anymore.


Maybe I'll give it a whirl. Once I've finished Wild Arms 2.

Now there is a good game. :cool:


If the absolute abomination that is FF XIII isn't number 1 I'll lose all faith in you Wolf.

Well you'll have to wait and see.

**************************************************************************************************** ****
#8 Revelations: Persona
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So some of you may be surprised to see this on the list and I do feel I need to make some clarifications here. When I say Revelations: Persona I am exclusively talking about the PS1 port of Megumi Iboroku Persona for PlayStation and not the enhanced port of said game on PSP called Shin Megami Tensei: Persona. While the PSP port is still a love-it-or-hate-it experience, it a vast improvement over the butchered and poorly localized abomination that is Revelations: Persona.

Revelations: Persona was released ina time when companies felt that any foreign cultural reference will automatically turn off the player and make them not buy the title. So back then a lot of games would remove such references and "westernize" it. It wasn't such a big deal for games like Final Fantasy and Phantasy Star which often took place in fictional worlds, but this is a Shin Megami Tensei games which predominately take place in modern urban settings, specifically Japan. Even worse is that Japan is pretty open about smack talking other religions and showing all the dirty parts of it which some countries (Like Puritan-influenced U.S. of A) had strict guidelines about not exposing our impressionable youth on despite watching MTV and reading dirty sex scandals on the news. So yeah, this game was doomed from the beginning to being put under the knife of questionable translation/localization that was so predominate of the 90s era Japanese imports. Yet, there are always the horror stories, the ones where a game or anime got such a crazy hack job that people begin to look at other questionable changes in a more favorable light. In anime this was most predominately series like Cardcaptors, in the gaming world I don't think any game hit it quite as bad as Persona 1.

So what's so bad about the Localization you may ask, well I'll let the Boy with the Earring explain it:
https://41.media.tumblr.com/2ee8fa130acde9b8165deea0c859a1f9/tumblr_nb8h94DW2d1s73ku9o1_500.png

So yes the game chose to scrub away everything that was Japanese about a game taking place in a fictitious city similar to Tokyo. How well did that work out for them? Not very well. In fact they went through and changed the casts names which is pretty standard for these kind of butcher jobs but then they did something that makes it live in infamy. They changed characters ethnicity.

Several character received hair dye jobs, and their skin was lightened to make them look more Caucasian, one character in particular, Masuo was renamed Mark and turned black for no real good reason.

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While ethnic diversity is a kind of an issue in JRPGs, this doesn't work out very well either as Masuo's personality and delinquent past makes changing his ethnicity have some unfortunate implications... He ends up becoming a really bad black stereotype which was the last thing this game really needed. The butchered script also made a game which had a pretty B-Movie plot to begin with to feel like a really bad Saturday morning cartoon show with the few redeeming parts of the plot being over-simplified and losing their impact.

The game wasn't even fully translated, the Snow Queen quest was removed from the game apparently due to running out of time and money to do it. It also helped that the Snow Queen arc is both more difficult than the SEBEC arc but also contains most of the game's questionable content that would have had to be seriously censored to make it in the market. The most infuriating aspect of all this is that Sony never had a policy concerning what was allowed in their games like Nintendo did, so most of these changes were completely unnecessary and Atlus ended up releasing an embarrassing game due to poor choices. The only good to come out of any of this was that the bad localization and the flak they got for it made it so Atlus would pretty much never do this again as Persona 2: Eternal Judgement largely retains its original script and the few changes were partially for technical reasons or to rectify elements from this game.

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So I've ranted about the localization job but what about the rest of the game? Well it's not that good I'm afraid. Persona 1 utilized a very experimental battle system that was interesting in theory and largely cumbersome in practice. Suffice to say that getting back attacked in P1 is far more devastating than in Final Fantasy. While the enhanced port didn't change the battle system, it did rectify one of the most obnoxious aspects of the game which was it's absolutely atrocious UI.

Let me explain. You know how other RPG will usually allow you to see if a weapon in the shop belongs to a character in your party and signify if it's actually better or worse than the one equipped? Yeah this game didn't do that. Did I mention that you can only have five people in your party at a time but there is a total of nine characters you can use in the game? Course once you choose your fifth character you can't recruit the others but shops will sell their stuff to you still and not tell you that your wasting money on equipment you can't use. This get even worse with the signature Personas, where all the character have certain good or bad compatibility with certain Arcana, yet the game won't tell you any of this and it's painfully easy to accidentally create a Persona that can only be used by a character you didn't recruit. The PSP port actually fixes all of this so setting your party up is not a hassle which is why it's not on this list. The game is also an early PS1 title so the 3D map it is very excited to show you is pretty atrocious. The pre-rendered cutscenes are also pretty laughable by today's standards.

Original
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PSP port
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About the only saving grace for this game is the awesome music. In fact I hate to say it but I feel the original has a better OST than the PSP port just because it's much more atmospheric. A case in point is the Hospital Level where the world gets flipped upside down and your party is fighting demons through a warped hospital.

The PSP Version
V_BdRpGNMMg
Not a bad track but this was the original.
CeI4FConSss
The lone piano combined with the distant voices and screams make this dungeon one of the most atmospheric and creepy, the First-Person dungeon view combined with the fugly PS1 graphics only makes it feel more unsettling.

So yeah, don't play this game. If you insist on playing Persona 1 (which itself is just hard to recommend) play the better enhanced PSP port because the PS1 version is something that should be left in the past of the PlayStation's dark ages along with Beyond the Beyond and Battle Arena Toshiden.

Ayen
01-10-2015, 10:29 PM
Huh. I have this game. Played a little bit of it to test it out and liked it so far. Ignorance is bliss.

And Mark is a dick.

Wolf Kanno
01-10-2015, 10:37 PM
If the absolute abomination that is FF XIII isn't number 1 I'll lose all faith in you Wolf.

This is a 'Worst RPGs' list with Valkyria Chronicles on; I wouldn't hold out much hope of it making sense ;)

This isn't really a Worst RPG list as much as my bottom of the list of the games I own list. I actually like most of these games except for maybe four of them.

In hindsight, I kind of wish I had placed VC higher because unlike the last three I posted, I haven't been able to finish it because it does nothing for me whereas Thousand Arms and Xenosaga were at least entertaining if only a little. Sorry to disappoint people but I do feel that VC gets a lot of love for simply being an RPG on a popular system in a time when there was nothing else available as opposed to something that has enough strong merits on its own to stand out against better competition. If it was a PS2 game released in it's prime years, I would like to think it would be remembered as a footnote instead of a fan favorite.

Ring of Red utilized similar gameplay and I doubt anyone has heard of it. Of course it came out when most of us were playing some of the last great games on the PS1 and anticipating FFX for the PS2.

black orb
01-10-2015, 11:39 PM
>>> I played all the games from the list so far, except for Valkyria Chronicles and Xenosaga 2..
I agree with that list I think, the PS1 era has an incredible amount of Horrible RPGs and I doubt Wolf is going to be able to put all of them in only 10 spots..:luca:

BTW, FFXIII-2 is worse than XIII..

Slothy
01-11-2015, 02:21 AM
Ring of Red utilized similar gameplay and I doubt anyone has heard of it.

Hey now! I resent being lumped in with these uneducated fools.

Fynn
01-11-2015, 06:55 AM
F-ing called it!

NeoCracker
01-11-2015, 09:55 AM
Oh god I forgot about Thousand Arms. I found it an incredibly forgettable experience. Never made it very far before it started to bore me. :p

And while I still say the combat of Xenosaga 2 isn't AS bad as people make it out to be (It's still pretty bad, mind you. :p) you'll really get no argument from me on that one. :p

Motdrafin
01-11-2015, 02:44 PM
Even though Revelations: Persona was on this list, I still feel that Persona 1 (The PSP version) was actually pretty good and definitely recommendable, that is, if you like dungeon crawlers. I enjoyed the game a lot, and I feel it's underrated.

Fynn
01-11-2015, 06:12 PM
This game further exemplifies why I believe the '90s were a dork age for Atlus. The SNES SMT games hold up really well even by today's standards, and the evolution that occurred in the PS2 era caused them to nearly overthrow SE as the king of JRPGs. The PSX era is just filled with clunky, experimental ideas that are really, really unpleasant to play. Persona 2 was really good, however.

Wolf Kanno
01-11-2015, 06:30 PM
Ring of Red utilized similar gameplay and I doubt anyone has heard of it.

Hey now! I resent being lumped in with these uneducated fools.

Lol, sorry sorry, I'm just pointing out that games like VC have come out and when stacked against a some of the genres strongest contenders, it doesn't stand as tall. I think my other point would be that despite all the praise VC1 got, VC2 received little to know fanfare because it was released later on when the genre began to pick up more steam and it had some actual competition.


F-ing called it!

You did. Frankly if people paied attention to a few other threads I've spoken in, you'll know my Number 1 and 2 as well.


Oh god I forgot about Thousand Arms. I found it an incredibly forgettable experience. Never made it very far before it started to bore me. :p

And while I still say the combat of Xenosaga 2 isn't AS bad as people make it out to be (It's still pretty bad, mind you. :p) you'll really get no argument from me on that one. :p

It's not just the combat though, I feel the overall gameplay experience is a huge step back from Episode 1 which is why I was happy when Episode 3 brought a lot of the elements back. Despite that, I do like Episode 2 as a story but their is so little to make the game standout to its superior brethren that it's a black sheep for sure.


Even though Revelations: Persona was on this list, I still feel that Persona 1 (The PSP version) was actually pretty good and definitely recommendable, that is, if you like dungeon crawlers. I enjoyed the game a lot, and I feel it's underrated.

I actually like the game's dungeon design, in fact I feel Persona 1 has the best dungeons in the franchise. While I know most people don't care for FPP style dungeons in RPGs, the fact they had puzzles and were anything but straightforward made going through them much more engaging than the dungeons in the later installments.


This game further exemplifies why I believe the '90s were a dork age for Atlus. The SNES SMT games hold up really well even by today's standards, and the evolution that occurred in the PS2 era caused them to nearly overthrow SE as the king of JRPGs. The PSX era is just filled with clunky, experimental ideas that are really, really unpleasant to play. Persona 2 was really good, however.

I would say Atlus was more of a hit or miss with their titles, it didn't help that it was the Sega Saturn they really backed during this time frame so many of their more interesting games (like Devil Summoner) were being produced for that system. They did give you the port of Tactics Ogre that you just put on your list actually, since Atlus was the publisher for some smaller companies.

Fynn
01-11-2015, 06:41 PM
They did give you the port of Tactics Ogre that you just put on your list actually, since Atlus was the publisher for some smaller companies.

I heard that port was pretty messed up :p

Still, I never said it was a bad time. I used the term dork age specifically because of that - there was a lot of weirdness, and I have a feeling they just had a hard time finding themselves in that era. Thankfully, their products have become more consistently good since then.

Spuuky
01-11-2015, 08:05 PM
Lol, sorry sorry, I'm just pointing out that games like VC have come out and when stacked against a some of the genres strongest contenders, it doesn't stand as tall. I think my other point would be that despite all the praise VC1 got, VC2 received little to know fanfare because it was released later on when the genre began to pick up more steam and it had some actual competition. This has nothing to do with "competition" or the "genre" and everything to do with the fact that it's a PSP game instead of a PS3 game.

Ayen
01-11-2015, 09:25 PM
I'ma play Persona 1 on PlayStation.

"NO! DON'T!"

I'ma play it.

Fox
01-11-2015, 10:07 PM
The thing with VC is it not only came out to critical acclaim in 2008, it was then released on Steam last year to critical acclaim and commercial success. SEGA have already come out and said that sales for Valkyria Chronicles on PC were far beyond their most ambitious expectations. The PC is not exactly a platform lacking in high quality strategy games - a 6 year old Japanese curiosity would have no chance in that market without being genuinely great.

If you don't like it, you don't like it. That's unfortunate, but it also is just because it isn't to your taste. Not because it's somehow overrated due to it's circumstance, like a starving food critic giving a 5* review to the only mouldy bread he could get his hands on.

Madame Adequate
01-11-2015, 10:21 PM
Yeah there was a huge gap before releasing VC on Steam, and when it finally arrived a month or two ago, the reviews were all around very positive. Among user reviews on Steam it has almost 2,000 of them since it came out two months ago, and they were "Overwhelmingly Postive". It has an average of 84 on Metacritic, just two below the original's 86. There's been enormous time to find flaws and problems and bugs and stuff, and to see whether the game holds up over time rather than being hyped because of the dearth of other RPGs when it was released - and it clearly does hold up.

It may not have been proclaimed GOTY but there's no way you can argue it's one of the ten worst RPGs ever. That's just crazy.

Fynn
01-11-2015, 10:26 PM
And as Wolf Kanno keeps reminding us, this is not a list of top ten worst RPGs ever.

Mirage
01-11-2015, 10:32 PM
that won't stop us from ripping into him!

anyway yeah, 95% positive with over 1900 votes is pretty good.

Wolf Kanno
01-12-2015, 04:14 AM
Fine fine, love your sappy Japanese WWII knockoff Strategy game. As Fynn has noted though, this is not a Top Ten Worst games, this is my Ten Bottom List of games I own. I'm also changing VC to number six on the list because reviewing 9-7 made me realize I like it less than them. ;)

Fynn
01-12-2015, 05:34 AM
I'm also changing VC to number six on the list because reviewing 9-7 made me realize I like it less than them. ;)

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p616/TakarasAsylum/LOL/GIF-OOOOOOOOH.gif

Wolf Kanno
01-12-2015, 07:28 AM
New #7 Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII
61880

Ah another game most of you have probably played and will hate me for putting on this list, let me take in the sweet smell of fanboy/girl anger in the morning. You know what's worse than a game/show/movie/piece of tech/brand that fans shove done your throat treating it like it was brought down from Paradise itself as the creation of the gods themselves? Watching the company that made it try to retread on the glory days because they realize they are creatively bankrupt. Even worse when they crank up the fanservice to make sure the message boards will light up like a Christmas tree and increase sales.

Do you know why I generally don't care for direct sequels/prequels to series? Because they're safe. They rarely require real thought or creativity, you just bring back popular characters, create fanservice with not-so-subtle references or foreshadowing, and you let the core popularity sell itself instead of actually putting in the effort to make something original and interesting. I am not against Crisis Core being made so much as I am disappointed by how absolutely manipulative, patronizing, and absolutely phoned in this game was. The plot feels like some awful fanfiction retelling of the main game without any subtlety or respect to the original mythos and canon. Its gameplay is disjointed and lacks any middle ground, trying desperately to appeal to a crowd of gamers who can't be bothered to put in any more effort to see the plot than to mindlessly mash X there way to victory; and trying to appeal to a hardcore group that want to mindlessly grind to min-max their way to making the game actually playable. The side missions are insulting the, the character assassinations are appalling and Genesis, just dear lord in heaven, Genesis...

Okay, I'm getting ahead of myself, let's start over...

61879

Conceptually Crisis Core feels like a great idea. Reuinite most of the high profile names that made everyone's favorite FF and do a prequel about one of the most important if completely underutilized characters from FFVII's back story, Zack Fair. Then make the game as the most high tech looking game for Sony's PlayStation Portable as an Action-RPG like Kingdom Hearts, that will hopefully sell the system and get SE back in the good graces of fans not happy with FFXII. The reality is that is largely worked as well, the game was greeted with critical acclaim and I believe it's still ranked as one of the best selling games on the PSP. Which largely proves that nostalgia makes everything better because I often find that when I grill fans of the game about some of its problems they often agree but then deflect the criticism because they got a chance to play VII again in a new form. I'm not saying this game doesn't have any merits whatsoever but I find it odd that despite hearing from fans themselves of the laundry list of problems the game possess, they still absolutely adore it. Why? because they're fans. I'm not judging here, this argument can easily be turned on me for games such as Chrono Trigger and MGS3 that have several flaws that I feel their overall awesomeness outweighs, and hell Xenogears itself has several glaring problems. but I still rank it as one of the best games of all times even when I can agree that it's gameplay doesn't come close to receiving such praise. So this isn't about me lambasting the fanbase for elevating a mediocre and flawed experience into an exclusive club of high profile games it really doesn't deserve to be in, I am simply explaining why I feel a game that has so much praised heap on it can actually be not quite up to par.

61878
I'm not a VII fan. I played the original back when it was new and I still wasn't really won over by it. I didn't jump into Crisis Core as a fan, I played it as someone who happens to like FF and heard good things about it. What I got was a mix bag of interesting ideas and terrible design choices. When the game was first announced, I remember watching the trailer for the plot with some of my VII fan friends and noted that they awed and oohed as the trailer went on and all I could notice was how vaguely familiar the plot sounded. Cloud was an Ex-1st Class SOLDIER turned mercenary who fights again Sephiroth, an Ex-1st Class SOLDIER who wages a war against Shin-Ra and the world when he learns that he is not human and the product of a super soldier experiment. The whole time, Cloud learn all the dirty secrets about Shin-Ra. Zack Fair is a 3rd Class SOLDIER who eventually becomes a mercenary, who battles Genesis who is a former 1st Class SOLDIER who wages a war against Shin-Ra and the world after he learns he is not human and the result of a super soldier experiment that was flawed and is killing him. Like Cloud, Zack leaves Shin-Ra (after becoming a 1st Class SOLDIER) when he discovers all of Shin-Ra's dark secrets. There is a real sense of deja vu in the games plot and it largely falls on the game's principle antagonists.

Genesis is basically what I expect the worst kind of fan would create in fanfiction, the fact he's modeled, voiced and even cosplayed by Gackt really doesn't help make this analogy feel accurate.
61873

Genesis is a wannabe and a pretender. The fact that part of his personality involves being jealous of Sephiroth for being more awesome than him just makes it a bit more funny to me. They have similar origins and similar motives, similar powers and both eventually turn from revenge to battrout crazy schemes that seem to come out of nowhere in the plot. Sephiroth was an ax-crazy psychopath whose god-complex was as overwhelming as his Oedipus complex. Despite all that, his backstory and the flashback showing his dissent into darkness actually made fans feel for him which was never really the writer's intentions but happened anyway because frankly Sephy got a raw deal. This is why I feel Sephy endures as a memorable villain because you can actual sympathize with him despite Nomura and Squenix's insistence that he's evil incarnate.

Squenix Sephiroth all the time
61874

Fan view of Sephiroth when he's not doing evil
61875

It was unintentional but it really worked for the character and Squenix. Hell Crisis Core even plays up on it a bit, giving him a few pet the dog moments to make his fall that much worse for the player. Genesis is pretty much a character trying too hard to recreate the phenomena. On paper, he's a really sympathetic character, basically the same origin as Sephiroth but he's a failure and will die very young because of it. Sephy went ona rampage initially as a misguided revenge for who he thought his people were and then went really crazy after learning the truth when he was swimming in the Lifestream and concocted a plan to become a god. Genesis spends half his time sticking it to Shin-Ra and the other half trying to find a way to reverse his condition, so again it's sympathetic. The issue is that Genesis is such a pretentious whiny asshole that you can't help wanting to get in his way and hope he'll finally die.

Let me give you the Genesis Experience
TBw2SkySWJk
He says part of this play/poem every single time he shows up. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. Yes, the villain of this game is some goth kid who spends most of his time reciting crappy symbolic poetry while angsting away about his eventual demise. If he had been written to act and react like a human being, he might have come across more sympathetic and made his story feel more conflicting for the player but instead he comes across as some angsty self-absorbed whack job you can't wait to have Zack smack his Buster Sword up against his head. Even worse is how like any self inserted fanfic author avatar, Genesis keeps inserting himself into scenes he has no business being in such as the Nibelheim flashback. That messing with canon was about the point I decided I really didn't like the game. I don't even like VII and I felt it was insulting to pull such a half ass retcon into one of the game's most important plot points.

My complaint about the changes to the story and characters can best be summarized by this thread (http://home.eyesonff.com/showthread.php/158394-Zack-Fair-Badass-Hero-or-Tragic-Waste-of-a-Life?p=3450141#post3450141).

In terms of gameplay, Crisis Core plays like Kingdom Hearts to a certain degree. Like the first game it has a terrible camera system and the play mechanics are a bit simple where just alternating between Dodge Rolling and smacking things with your sword is enough to win 95% of your battles. There is a guard command but it's almost completely worthless as most attacks can easily be dodged roll even if logic dictates they can't and the few moves it would be useful against, like the unblockable cutscene super attacks bosses perform can't be reduced by the guard move. The enemy A.I. is largely simple and easy to exploit which becomes apparent when you jump to Hard Mode and realize the same strategy on Normal mode works just as well despite the massive stat increase of the enemies. The Materia Fusion mechanic is actually a pretty neat concept and if the VII remake ever comes out, I would hope they would incorporate it along with some of the new command materia like Jump and Darkness.

61883

The real problem with the game comes down to two elements: the gap in difficulty between modes and story vs. sidequest, and the quality of the sidequest vs. story mode:

Normal should be renamed "Hold you hand while I wipe your ass" mode and Hard mode should be renamed "smurf you for not being a completionist" mode. In normal mode, the Story mode is painfully easy with it being possible to beat the final boss fairly easy with a character under level 30, and I'm not talking about an FFVIII problem where the customization system is so broken it just makes the game pathetically easy, I'm talking FFX issue where the game is just easy as long as you have some decent common sense. The only boss fight that is actually hard in story mode is Sephiroth in Nibelheim and it's only because his attacks have this special effect where they push Zack back and if he falls off the ledge it's an automatic game over so really the only hard boss battle involves a bit of fake difficulty. Side quest Mission Mode tends to be where the real challenge is, even in Normal Mode but playing through them is both monotonous and easy to send Zack into god mode where story mode becomes an utter joke. Hard mode has the opposite problem, because you basically can't do anything with it if you both don't understand how to abuse the Materia Fusion system and don't have several endgame resources to simply survive. Basically you need to complete most of the content in Normal mode to not get screwed over by the game in Hard Mode. This is especially infuriating because the difficult spike is actually manageable with skill alone except when you encounter those unblockable and unskippable cutscene attacks bosses throw at you. Most of the enemies can one shot you in Hard Mode if your not sporting mid-to end game side mission mode stats and equipment, but even with the bare requirements to beat the game, if you are skilled enough to dodge roll on time, you can actually win most of these battles, it's only with the moves that you're completely helpless against that makes this mode unwinnable without going back and maxing out your stats and items so it's a really frustrating design choice.

61876


Story mode is actually pretty neat in hindsight, the game incorporates some mini-games and different play-styles into the story mode which is both a nice connection to VII's gameplay style but also helps break up the monotony of the gameplay. Side missions on the other hand are basically 200+missions of walking through the same 10 dungeons with just a few enemies and murdering everything until you fight the enemy you need to. It is absolutely monotonous after awhile and makes doing mission mode pretty boring especially since combat is pretty simple and lacks much depth. Had the mission mode gotten a bit more variety like some of the story modes mini-games and has story mode gotten a better scale of difficulty, the game side of Crisis core could have been salvageable.

Granted the game does have some strong moments here and there, in fact most of the time the game ignores its silly new content and focuses on things relevant to the original VII, it begins to really shine. While I'm not a huge VII fan, the Nibelheim scene was still a really fun and chilling experience for me, well until Genesis showed up and ruined it anyway. While I don't care for the game's retcon to Zack's final battle, I will concede it was really well done in terms of the gameplay story integration. The cutscene that followed was a bit too much for me but as I said, this game really wasn't designed for me and I get that. I'm not really the target audience and that's why I have a harder time accepting it for what it is.

61882

Ayen
01-12-2015, 07:40 AM
You want Genesis?

*drops limp body of Genesis on Square's desk*

You can have Genesis.

Fox
01-12-2015, 08:55 AM
Fine fine, love your sappy Japanese WWII knockoff Strategy game. As Fynn has noted though, this is not a Top Ten Worst games, this is my Ten Bottom List of games I own. I'm also changing VC to number six on the list because reviewing 9-7 made me realize I like it less than them. ;)

Haha. There's something funny about that phrase.

"Pssh! This war is just a knockoff of WWII!! Why can't we have some originality​ in our wars!?"

Wolf Kanno
01-12-2015, 09:09 AM
Fine fine, love your sappy Japanese WWII knockoff Strategy game. As Fynn has noted though, this is not a Top Ten Worst games, this is my Ten Bottom List of games I own. I'm also changing VC to number six on the list because reviewing 9-7 made me realize I like it less than them. ;)

Haha. There's something funny about that phrase.

"Pssh! This war is just a knockoff of WWII!! Why can't we have some originality​ in our wars!?"

I guess it is funny, I don't know, WWII gets glorified too much I guess and I just think certain other conflicts are more interesting. I think the game may have worked better had it felt a little more like WWI with it's awful trench warfare. Would have driven the camaraderie aspect better if you were dealing with the day in drudgery of watching friends die pointless deaths to gain a few feet of land against the enemy. Though to be fair, VC does borrow several elements from both World Wars. While war is inherently never a good thing and always deals with human suffering, I do feel that history has painted certain ones more painfully and tragic than others depending on the country of course.

Fynn
01-12-2015, 09:22 AM
Ah, Crisis Core. You pretty much summed up my thoughts on the game, though I'm still a bit more forgiving of it. The saddest part about the story is that it could've been pulled off well, as SE have proved themselves. Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days basically had the same relationship to the first game as CC did to FFVII. Heck, it even had a self-insert Mary Sue type character. But it's done so well, seemingly deconstructing fanfic, and actually incorporating real human emotion, making it possibly the most depressing entry yet, as it should be.

Wolf Kanno
01-12-2015, 09:32 AM
Yeah, I honestly feel the game would have been the best part of the Compilation had it balanced out the gameplay better and removed Genesis from the second half of the game. Do a bit more about Zack and Cloud returning to Midgard and make the final conflict not feel so damn over the top.

Pumpkin
01-12-2015, 04:06 PM
sharky got it for the PSP and I decided to try it one day. While I like FFVII, I do find it pretty weak for a FF game, and I never really liked the characters that much and I didn't really care about Zack the little bit he was there

I'm not sure why I decided to try it :P

I didn't like it, in case anyone wasn't clear on that

VeloZer0
01-12-2015, 04:26 PM
Bang on with the fanfiction comments on Crisis Core. (Well, the whole compilation really).

Del Murder
01-12-2015, 06:56 PM
I'm always on the fence with Crisis Core. On the one hand I really liked Zack's character and the last hour of the game (which honestly what I was playing it to see) really delivered on the emotion. On the other hand the invention of Genesis was way too forced and the battle system was too easy to exploit. I just ran around in circles with dodge roll and standard attack to win everything, with a Cure spell every now and then. The reels also made no sense and were too random though it was cool I got help from it.

In the end I like the game because it pretty much solidified Zack as the most likable character in the FFVII universe, and then killed him. The fact that you know it is going to happen the entire way just makes it even more of a gut punch. Kudos for that SE.

EDIT: Oh, and Yuffie stealing my treasure was annoying but also hilarious and it's a great example of the whimsy missing from the modern FF titles.

Ayen
01-12-2015, 07:00 PM
I liked Zack too, but not sure how I feel about the battle system (I only tested to see if it work when I first got it so haven't played it much). But I'll never forgive them for adding Genesis to the Mako reactor scene. I would feel that way regardless of who it was, though. Stop changing the canon, dammit!

Polnareff
01-13-2015, 01:51 AM
Oh god, Thousand Arms. Terrible, terrible game. The only saving grace was the adorable character sprites when walking around town.

Crisis Core is all right, but it's a fundamentally broken game, story aside. Who the fuck thought it was a good idea to make leveling up random? :mad2:

Wolf Kanno
01-13-2015, 05:07 AM
We're now halfway through my list and it's betting time to see how predictable you all think I am, so start guessing what may show up in the top five.

Clues:
Two games are on the same console.
Two games do bear the Final Fantasy name. They also have the same director.
Only two games are sequels.
Two of these games I doubt many of you have ever played or even heard of.
Only one of these games is made before 2001.
One of the games isn't really an RPG. It's really more of another genre.
Most of these games make excellent, if expensive paperweights.

Pumpkin
01-13-2015, 05:08 AM
Is X-2 going to be on there?

I'm not good at guessing :<

Colonel Angus
01-13-2015, 05:19 AM
Is X-2 going to be on there?

It better not be, Canoe! :argh:

Fynn
01-13-2015, 05:47 AM
So it's definitely XII and X or X-2. Hard to tell which, honestly.

Pumpkin
01-13-2015, 05:57 AM
Does he not like XII?

I know he isn't a huge fan of X and X-2, but I'm not sure which he dislikes more








The mysteries of wolf canoe

Ayen
01-13-2015, 06:00 AM
You really don't want to see me rage, Kanno. It involves tumblr and little girls. Nasty stuff.

Fynn
01-13-2015, 06:07 AM
I meant XIII!

Pumpkin
01-13-2015, 06:09 AM
WELL THEN


I feel betrayed Fynn. You have betrayed my trust forever more

Also

MOAR GAMES

Fynn
01-13-2015, 06:16 AM
WELL THEN


I feel betrayed Fynn. You have betrayed my trust forever more

Also

MOAR GAMES

The only one I have betrayed is FFXII.

I shall live forever in shame.

Ayen
01-13-2015, 06:35 AM
And live forever in shame you shall.

Wolf Kanno
01-13-2015, 07:31 AM
Number 5!!!

White Knight Chronicles
61900
Another game I kind of wish I could have liked more but god help me, the game just wouldn't let me have any of that. WKC is a the brainchild of Level 5, the company that made the West pay attention to Dragon Quest when they were handed the rights to the series to make DQVIII and IX. With that said, the idea of this company building a really cool next-gen RPG that looked on par to Final Fantasy got several fans really interested. Sadly, the game wasn't exactly the second coming for the genre as many fans had hoped, even worse being that it left JRPG fans little to look forward to as FFXIII loomed forever in the horizon.

61901

You get to create this cool character with a deep character customization tool and then promise to send you off on a fantastic journey through mystical lands and Robot action. I did spend hours on that thing, and sadly I think my character ended up looking suspiciously like Orlando Bloom due to watching too many of the Pirates of the Caribbean movies at the time. Then my character is sent off on a cool adventure where this dopey kid who won't shut the smurf up has us runnign errands for work with his other dorky friend and then we go off and do stuff and it seems weird that the story is focusing on this dopey kid instead of my player avatar and then the palace gets attacked and then the signature White Knight shows up and then dopey kid gets awesome powers... wait a minute, what the smurf is up with this trout?! I spent hours making a... Orlando Bloom and you're not even going to give him the time of day? Why did I bother making the character if the plot is really about this other character? Hell my character is almost never acknowledged in the plot. What's that Level-5, I can use my character to play with other characters in the online mode, I guess that's cool if I wasn't such a misanthropic asshole who could care less about online co-op. I still tried some and watched as my player avatar skyrocketed in levels and ended up becoming too much of a crutch character for the plot. So after awhile, I ended up not actually using the character I spent so much time making in the main game. No Level 5, this is not how you do silent player avatar characters, you smurfing made DQ games and you've proven you don't know what the smurf you're doing with a silent protagonist. You don't spend media time promoting a game about character creation and exploring a whole world so you could bait and switch them with your own pre-made story characters, that's not how this works. If you want to make the player feel a part of the story you focus the narrative around them and their actions. If you wanted to tell a gripping story with plenty of character driven melodrama, you make a game around that cast and idea. You don't try to do both, or at least so blatantly halfassed. I'm sorry Level 5 but you can't have your cake and eat it too.

61902

The story mode may not have been so bad if the game wasn't such a cliche fest with characters that feel all too familiar and never get better, they are annoying as well. I don't know what it is about all the early PS3 JRPGs feeling the need to seriously grab a hold of all the anime cliches and play them straight but damn... Level 5 read that fan complaint about how quiet the XII cast was while exploring and made sure it wasn't going to be a complaint in their game as the characters won't smurfing shut up as the quip the same five lines of dialogue every few minutes making exploring far more tedious than it should be. Their dialogue in combat isn't that great and the ones in cutscenes are not any better. The plot is like a combination of Vision of Escaflowne meet a very generic fantasy RPG.

61903

Combat is actually pretty interesting, you get to buy attacks like types of swings for different weapons and then you can move place them together into special combo abilities. You can make these combo chains as long as you have the AP for it but since AP grows as you battle spamming singular attacks it's often better to go with smaller effective combos than big flashy ones. You even get to name them which was fun as made really hammy names like Flying Monkey God Slayer of Cake and other nonsense. Unfortunately, it really doesn't take long before you begin to feel like you have seen everything with the combat system. Maybe it was from building an uber character in mission mode but I never finished the game because frankly I didn't like the plot, characters and combos itself kind of lost the wow factor pretty quickly and I was left with listening to the obnoxious cast repeat their NPC dialogue as I explored and fought battles. Even the White Knight itself wasn't exactly exciting to play as, feeling more like a watered down version of the player experience. The fact I learned it ended on a To Be Continued ending was enough to make me realize I didn't care enough to finish it.

61904

White Knight Chronicles was a game that I felt got overhyped before it's release and just couldn't make good on its promises and proof that both pedigree and giant robots can't make every concept work. Hopefully when gaming historians look back on this time frame, Level-5 will be only be remembered for Ni No Kuni and the Professor Layton series and this embarrassment will just be forgotten.

Shauna
01-13-2015, 10:55 AM
I remember we were going to pick this up when we got a PS3, but reading up on it, I believe it had a massive online component and they were talking about closing servers... so we sacked it and picked up Disgaea instead.

Bolivar
01-13-2015, 01:52 PM
I've never seen someone so disdainful about a console they themselves bought of their own free will and I'm starting to think Wolf actually takes the crown as the biggest PS3 hater on these forums. It's the only explanation I have for why someone would put Valkyria Chronicles on a Worst RPGs List (or however he wants to rationalize it this week) or White Knight Chronicles, knowing full well he must have played dozens of RPGs with just as generic stories but not nearly as successful combat systems. Saying WKC was "overhyped" is almost as untrue as when you said people only liked VC because it was on a popular console, which the PS3 most certainly was not in 2008. I honestly have no idea where you come up with these things.

Likewise, I don't know who gave you the idea this was about a silent protagonist and not the kid with the knight, particularly when it says "White Knight Chronicles" right there in the title. Everybody knew that the custom avatar was so each player could bring a unique character into online multiplayer. Not only was its online component the saving grace of the game, what made it stand out at the time of release, it also conveniently receives no real evaluation in your breakdown. Imagine that...

I swear, we need to pool our money together and send Wolf to a rehabilitation retreat where he can learn to enjoy fun video games. Because I'm seriously starting to think we will see Demon's Souls before this list is done. You heard it here first.

Wolf Kanno
01-13-2015, 03:32 PM
Honestly, I do not really have much love for the PS3, that is certainly true but I would probably go far enough to say that the last console generation was the weakest for me and my gaming taste. Let's face it though, compared to it's predecessor, the PS3 has not exactly been god's gift to RPGs, nor has that particular console generation seen the sheer volume of quality titles like the previous two so sorry if I'm feeling a bit peeved and disappointed I bought a gaming console to play good games and kind of feeling underwhelmed here.

As I stated in my explanation for VC being on this list, it came around the time I had a serious falling out over the Tactical RPG genre as I became burnt out and annoyed by the very flaws that are standard issue for the genre. Akin to someone who one day and woke realizing they didn't like RPGs because gosh darn it they just really don't like the random encounters and highly exploitative customization systems and frankly that's what most of them are. The fact the game had a very anime anti-war plot didn't help to endure it unlike say Disgaea which never took itself seriously and was pretty funny even if the gameplay still felt exhausting. Am I treating it unfairly? Probably but it had bad timing and some game was going to get the blunt of it. I still stand by the fact the game has one of the most absolutely terrible UI/Menu systems I've encountered in a game since the old PC days though.

As for WKC, I didn't mention much of the online component because frankly I didn't like it because as I've mentioned before on this forum, I'm not big into co-op/multiplayer games. I also don't really understand why you would build two different games, slap them together in a disjointed way and say "hey, the solo campaign sucks but the other part that involves us entertaining ourselves with each other's company wasn't as bad" constitutes as a success. That bullshit might work in the FPS genre but the RPG genre kind of has different criteria of standards that I just don't think work that way. You yourself once mentioned you probably liked the game more simply because at the time you (and most of us) were in a serious drought for a good RPG and lapped it up despite realizing in hindsight it wasn't that great.

There are other more generic games, but this list only contains the ones I owned and felt promising. I don't really pick up the truly generic looking ones, but I've obviously been duped by some promising high profile titles or sequels. I would be curious to know what you would rank as 20 low-tier JRPGs.

Fynn
01-13-2015, 03:34 PM
As he articulates his feelings about the games very clearly, I say Wolf has a full right to dislike the games he dislikes. De gustibus non est disputandum, after all :monster:

Frankly, I've never seen anyone quite so disdainful about someone disliking a game.

Also, the two best JRPGs on console last generation were both on the Wii /fact

Pumpkin
01-13-2015, 03:51 PM
Level 5 also made Dark Cloud games and those were awesome

I am loling at making a character you don't really use though :lol:

Also, love my PS3, use that thing so (too) often

Fynn
01-13-2015, 04:00 PM
Level 5 also made Dark Cloud games and those were awesome

I am loling at making a character you don't really use though :lol:

Also, love my PS3, use that thing so (too) often

They also made Fantasy Life which is pretty amazing.

I missed out on a PS3, though. Might get a PS4 for XV and KHIII, but I'm mostly a handheld gamer. And I use my 3DS way too often :P (my Vita's getting a lot of action lately too)

Bolivar
01-13-2015, 05:42 PM
Honestly, I do not really have much love for the PS3, that is certainly true but I would probably go far enough to say that the last console generation was the weakest for me and my gaming taste. Let's face it though, compared to it's predecessor, the PS3 has not exactly been god's gift to RPGs, nor has that particular console generation seen the sheer volume of quality titles like the previous two so sorry if I'm feeling a bit peeved and disappointed I bought a gaming console to play good games and kind of feeling underwhelmed here.

As I stated in my explanation for VC being on this list, it came around the time I had a serious falling out over the Tactical RPG genre as I became burnt out and annoyed by the very flaws that are standard issue for the genre. Akin to someone who one day and woke realizing they didn't like RPGs because gosh darn it they just really don't like the random encounters and highly exploitative customization systems and frankly that's what most of them are. The fact the game had a very anime anti-war plot didn't help to endure it unlike say Disgaea which never took itself seriously and was pretty funny even if the gameplay still felt exhausting. Am I treating it unfairly? Probably but it had bad timing and some game was going to get the blunt of it. I still stand by the fact the game has one of the most absolutely terrible UI/Menu systems I've encountered in a game since the old PC days though.

As for WKC, I didn't mention much of the online component because frankly I didn't like it because as I've mentioned before on this forum, I'm not big into co-op/multiplayer games. I also don't really understand why you would build two different games, slap them together in a disjointed way and say "hey, the solo campaign sucks but the other part that involves us entertaining ourselves with each other's company wasn't as bad" constitutes as a success. That bulltrout might work in the FPS genre but the RPG genre kind of has different criteria of standards that I just don't think work that way. You yourself once mentioned you probably liked the game more simply because at the time you (and most of us) were in a serious drought for a good RPG and lapped it up despite realizing in hindsight it wasn't that great.

There are other more generic games, but this list only contains the ones I owned and felt promising. I don't really pick up the truly generic looking ones, but I've obviously been duped by some promising high profile titles or sequels. I would be curious to know what you would rank as 20 low-tier JRPGs.

Honestly, it was my least favorite generation as well. I'll be first in line to say the PS3 library doesn't hold a candle to its predecessors - but that's gaming in general. The glory days of home console RPGs truly are are over and you need to find them somewhere else or enjoy your devices for what they can do. Not vilify mediocre games for making you regret your purchase ;)

Along those lines, you say I enjoyed WKC because of the drought and I did but that's not something I realized in hindsight. Like I always say with XIII, I absolutely recognize and call out flaws but I also give fair credit to what games get right because life is too short to bitch about the entertainment I consume. I'm just so sick of this fractious, black-and-white internet discussion culture where we overlook redeeming qualities in writing snarky critiques to either score points or get attention from like-minded individuals. Here, you couldn't even praise the combat system without saying combos lose "wow" factor or you see everything too quickly, which is about as vague and ambiguously critical as whatever you are trying to convey about VC's UI. Which makes it ironic when Fynn praises you for clear articulation, before twisting my own words to attack me :p Who also admits never owning PS3, presumably never playing VC or Demon's Souls, yet is comfortable calling the generation for the Wii (didn't even the Xbox 360 have better JRPGs?)

Gotta love EoFF!

Fynn
01-13-2015, 06:10 PM
Honestly, I do not really have much love for the PS3, that is certainly true but I would probably go far enough to say that the last console generation was the weakest for me and my gaming taste. Let's face it though, compared to it's predecessor, the PS3 has not exactly been god's gift to RPGs, nor has that particular console generation seen the sheer volume of quality titles like the previous two so sorry if I'm feeling a bit peeved and disappointed I bought a gaming console to play good games and kind of feeling underwhelmed here.

As I stated in my explanation for VC being on this list, it came around the time I had a serious falling out over the Tactical RPG genre as I became burnt out and annoyed by the very flaws that are standard issue for the genre. Akin to someone who one day and woke realizing they didn't like RPGs because gosh darn it they just really don't like the random encounters and highly exploitative customization systems and frankly that's what most of them are. The fact the game had a very anime anti-war plot didn't help to endure it unlike say Disgaea which never took itself seriously and was pretty funny even if the gameplay still felt exhausting. Am I treating it unfairly? Probably but it had bad timing and some game was going to get the blunt of it. I still stand by the fact the game has one of the most absolutely terrible UI/Menu systems I've encountered in a game since the old PC days though.

As for WKC, I didn't mention much of the online component because frankly I didn't like it because as I've mentioned before on this forum, I'm not big into co-op/multiplayer games. I also don't really understand why you would build two different games, slap them together in a disjointed way and say "hey, the solo campaign sucks but the other part that involves us entertaining ourselves with each other's company wasn't as bad" constitutes as a success. That bulltrout might work in the FPS genre but the RPG genre kind of has different criteria of standards that I just don't think work that way. You yourself once mentioned you probably liked the game more simply because at the time you (and most of us) were in a serious drought for a good RPG and lapped it up despite realizing in hindsight it wasn't that great.

There are other more generic games, but this list only contains the ones I owned and felt promising. I don't really pick up the truly generic looking ones, but I've obviously been duped by some promising high profile titles or sequels. I would be curious to know what you would rank as 20 low-tier JRPGs.

Honestly, it was my least favorite generation as well. I'll be first in line to say the PS3 library doesn't hold a candle to its predecessors - but that's gaming in general. The glory days of home console RPGs truly are are over and you need to find them somewhere else or enjoy your devices for what they can do. Not vilify mediocre games for making you regret your purchase ;)

Along those lines, you say I enjoyed WKC because of the drought and I did but that's not something I realized in hindsight. Like I always say with XIII, I absolutely recognize and call out flaws but I also give fair credit to what games get right because life is too short to bitch about the entertainment I consume. I'm just so sick of this fractious, black-and-white internet discussion culture where we overlook redeeming qualities in writing snarky critiques to either score points or get attention from like-minded individuals. Here, you couldn't even praise the combat system without saying combos lose "wow" factor or you see everything too quickly, which is about as vague and ambiguously critical as whatever you are trying to convey about VC's UI. Which makes it ironic when Fynn praises you for clear articulation, before twisting my own words to attack me :p Who also admits never owning PS3, presumably never playing VC or Demon's Souls, yet is comfortable calling the generation for the Wii (didn't even the Xbox 360 have better JRPGs?)

Gotta love EoFF!

It doesn't have Xenoblade or the Last Story.

/endgame :exdee:

Also, it's not black and white. People have the right to dislike games, as they have the right to have things bug them. Writing and reading about that is fun and entertaining, especially if well-written, like WK's list is so far. I also like to read positive things on the Internet, really - there's room for a lot of this. If you must know, since it came out on steam, I intend to play VC anyway, just like I'm giving the XIII trilogy a fair shot despite all the bad publicity. There's a certain catharsis factor to slamming games and reading somebody slamming games. It's all still in good fun. I'm sorry if my comment offended you - I was trying to have fun with the thread. Sorry if it came at your expense ;)

Tl;dr: I believe there's a place for everything. I'm loving this list so far, as it's really well-written, but I also like to look for positive things in games, as you may be aware from reading my top 25 list.

Ayen
01-13-2015, 10:10 PM
I'm starting to see how Wii won the last console generation war.

Bolivar
01-14-2015, 12:33 AM
It doesn't have Xenoblade or the Last Story.

/endgame :exdee:

Also, it's not black and white. People have the right to dislike games, as they have the right to have things bug them. Writing and reading about that is fun and entertaining, especially if well-written, like WK's list is so far. I also like to read positive things on the Internet, really - there's room for a lot of this. If you must know, since it came out on steam, I intend to play VC anyway, just like I'm giving the XIII trilogy a fair shot despite all the bad publicity. There's a certain catharsis factor to slamming games and reading somebody slamming games. It's all still in good fun. I'm sorry if my comment offended you - I was trying to have fun with the thread. Sorry if it came at your expense ;)

Tl;dr: I believe there's a place for everything. I'm loving this list so far, as it's really well-written, but I also like to look for positive things in games, as you may be aware from reading my top 25 list.

I love scathing reviews. If you couldn't tell from the EoFF general response to the VC post, that's not really what's going on here. Wolf's more or less been repositioning the goal lines for why this list exists since he created it, the latest rationale being that it's games which showed promise. If you read my first post, I can tell you that in no way shape or form was White Knight Chronicles "overhyped." A lot of us were happy to have a traditional Level-5 JRPG but we all knew from the marketing materials that the game was going to be generic, and the initial sales reflected that. That's why I have to raise my eyebrows when Wolf says he was genuinely shocked that the characters were archetypical and the writing was boring, particularly after how harshly he lambasts Dragon Quest VIII, their previous major console RPG. The only thing that surprised people when the game came out was how solid the online multiplayer was. It's a lot like his admitted grudge against the PS3 for not having more AAA JRPGs (it has a treasure trove of niche ones) - if I remember correctly, he purchased the system late enough to know which way the wind was blowing and he really has no one else but himself to blame.

I think it just eats Wolf up that Valkyria Chronicles and Demon's/Dark Souls are far and away the most influential and revered JRPGs of last generation, while Xenoblade Chronicles has already become the footnote he insists VC would otherwise be. And so we have the exaggerated "disappointment" of WKC or the asinine proposition that Valkyria Chronicles could ever be on any form of a Bottom RPG list.

For real - you're crazy if you were honestly going to shy away from it because of what Wolf said. A lot of enthusiast PC gaming sites are putting it on their Game of the Year lists for 2014.

Spuuky
01-14-2015, 12:43 AM
I own WKC but I haven't gotten around to playing it yet. But, I did make a character; he looks EXACTLY like one of my real-life friends. I loaded up the game to show him and he initially thought it had some feature I had used to upload a picture of him.

Polnareff
01-14-2015, 12:50 AM
I thought WKC 1 and 2 were amazing games. Still do. They were like better versions of FFXII with giant robot knights. A lot of people thought that the two games were the worst in Level 5's library. I say to these people: play Dark Cloud 1.

The main thing that hooked me was the battle system, and making my own avatar. The graphics were damn good too.

Also, I thought PS3 had pretty good RPGs on it and at least Sony was able to get companies to release RPGs on their system. MS didn't even try to get any decent RPGs for the 360 other than Vesperia and Lost Odyssey......

Scotty_ffgamer
01-14-2015, 01:44 AM
I never played White Knight Chronicles, but I've always wanted to! I really like Valkyria Chronicles also, but I have zero issues with your list. This is, as you said, a bottom ten list of JRPGs that you own. That's always been the case. If a game doesn't really mesh with what you are looking for in a game when you play it, of course it's going to hit the bottom of your list. Nothing wrong with that even if the game gets critical acclaim.

Ayen
01-14-2015, 02:13 AM
I forgot to comment on White Knight Chronicles.

Never heard of it.

"Do you even RPG bro?"

I used to! Back when Bush was President.

Spuuky
01-14-2015, 03:04 AM
I forgot to comment on White Knight Chronicles.

Never heard of it.

"Do you even RPG bro?"

I used to! Back when Bush was President.WKC release date: December 25, 2008

George W Bush leaves office: January 20, 2009

Ayen
01-14-2015, 03:14 AM
I forgot to comment on White Knight Chronicles.

Never heard of it.

"Do you even RPG bro?"

I used to! Back when Bush was President.WKC release date: December 25, 2008

George W Bush leaves office: January 20, 2009

Bush Senior :smug:

Okay, so I'm not that old.

Skyblade
01-14-2015, 03:38 AM
Level 5 also made Dark Cloud games and those were awesome

I am loling at making a character you don't really use though :lol:

Also, love my PS3, use that thing so (too) often

They also made Fantasy Life which is pretty amazing.

And Professor Layton.

Seriously, Level 5 has made some great titles, you can forgive them for occasionally making a lackluster one.

I have been putting way too many hours into Fantasy Life lately.

Wolf Kanno
01-14-2015, 06:09 AM
Honestly, it was my least favorite generation as well. I'll be first in line to say the PS3 library doesn't hold a candle to its predecessors - but that's gaming in general. The glory days of home console RPGs truly are are over and you need to find them somewhere else or enjoy your devices for what they can do. Not vilify mediocre games for making you regret your purchase ;)

Honestly, I do enjoy several games on the PS3, my issue with the system was the vast majority were multiplatform so enjoying them on the PS3 was really more of a coincidence. With that said, I do feel the console really did hit bottom this generation concerning JRPGs and it only bugs me because the PS2 may have actually been one of the best systems for the genre. It was a bit weird going from one of the best systems for the genre, which was still cranking out classics like Persona 4 right before the system lost relevance, to a system that seriously struggled to have a library, let alone a good one. I understand this is not Sony's fault, and technically I don't blame them for their games. The fact I'm ripping on more PS3 RPGs than other systems is because I own a PS3 and I happen to not like a good chunk of their RPG library. I honestly don't care what system it was released on, you're the one getting annoyed about me drilling games on a system you like; and this really has nothing to do with some anti-Sony hysteria conspiracy theory until you showed up and started blabbering on about the sky is falling and Kazuo Hirai is the Second Coming.


Along those lines, you say I enjoyed WKC because of the drought and I did but that's not something I realized in hindsight. Like I always say with XIII, I absolutely recognize and call out flaws but I also give fair credit to what games get right because life is too short to bitch about the entertainment I consume. I'm just so sick of this fractious, black-and-white internet discussion culture where we overlook redeeming qualities in writing snarky critiques to either score points or get attention from like-minded individuals. Here, you couldn't even praise the combat system without saying combos lose "wow" factor or you see everything too quickly, which is about as vague and ambiguously critical as whatever you are trying to convey about VC's UI. Which makes it ironic when Fynn praises you for clear articulation, before twisting my own words to attack me :p Who also admits never owning PS3, presumably never playing VC or Demon's Souls, yet is comfortable calling the generation for the Wii (didn't even the Xbox 360 have better JRPGs?)
Gotta love EoFF!

Um I was pretty clear on the UI issue if you actually read the original post, hell I honestly felt I was pretty apologetic about not liking the game. I realized recently, in hindsight, I placed it at 10 probably more out of concern of the backlash I was going to get from it than because I honestly believed it deserved to be there. I moved it because in doing the other segments, I realized it was silly to place a game I can't stomach enough to finish higher than games I've actually had the patience to get through more than once.

The main issue with the UI for me is the awful menu system between battles, it's unnecessarily clunky and in your way. I'm trying to play a game, why must you break up the cutscenes into bite sized segments when your designed to not allow me to skip them anyway? Why make me have to jump back to the menu between takes to choose the next piece? Just let me start the chapter and if I need to take a break between the story let me pause and quit and I'll choose the chunk then. Don't ask me each time I want to watch a cutscene VC, I don't exactly have a bloody choice in the matter now do I? Except maybe shut the game off and take out the disc and play something better that doesn't hold me to poor design choices. If I had liked the plot and characters, I could have probably ignored this fault but since I didn't, every time it asked me if I wanted to watch a cutscene, it really drove home the point that I really didn't and wish I could just skip to the fun part of the game.

My issues with its gameplay has less to do with VC itself and more to do with the sub-genre itself. Needless grinding on the same map; despite a wealth of options and unit types, the most basic tend to get the job done at the pace I like, making customization needless; and despite that the computer takes forever to take its turns, its sadly very predictable. It's like playing chess with a child for hours, amusing at first but eventually you just want to do something else and they insist on playing more despite being bored by the lack of challenge. I'm tired of the genre and I mention that in the VC section, it's the whole reason why I still haven't played Tactics Ogre because I know I'm probably going to get bored with it, I had to force myself to play through FFTactics: War of the Lions to the end because I'm frankly bored with the genre and I like FFTactics but it's gameplay no longer holds my interest like it used to. I'm sorry that I can't appreciate a love the rest of you maintain but I'm just done with it.




I love scathing reviews. If you couldn't tell from the EoFF general response to the VC post, that's not really what's going on here. Wolf's more or less been repositioning the goal lines for why this list exists since he created it, the latest rationale being that it's games which showed promise. If you read my first post, I can tell you that in no way shape or form was White Knight Chronicles "overhyped." A lot of us were happy to have a traditional Level-5 JRPG but we all knew from the marketing materials that the game was going to be generic, and the initial sales reflected that. That's why I have to raise my eyebrows when Wolf says he was genuinely shocked that the characters were archetypical and the writing was boring, particularly after how harshly he lambasts Dragon Quest VIII, their previous major console RPG. The only thing that surprised people when the game came out was how solid the online multiplayer was. It's a lot like his admitted grudge against the PS3 for not having more AAA JRPGs (it has a treasure trove of niche ones) - if I remember correctly, he purchased the system late enough to know which way the wind was blowing and he really has no one else but himself to blame.

You and I definitely go to very different news sites because WKC was hyped before its release by a lot of game sites and magazines. Seeing how it was suppose to be this ambitious open-world JRPG, with online elements by Level-5, who were getting praised for what they did with DQVIII, (btw, they don't do the writing, that is all still done by Yuji Horii so saying I shouldn't be surprised because of my feelings on DQVIII is still valid criticism :p ) by upgrading a dinosaur of a franchise into something Westerners could appreciate. Considering the console had so few high profile titles in the genre, it certainly got more hype than you are saying it did, perhaps out of your own buyer's remorse for getting suckered in. In terms of having plenty of time to read reviews and know what I was getting into, I can explain that simply by being misled by friends who have a far greater tolerance for mediocrity than I do. I heard from some that it was mediocre but I had at least two RPG buddies who highly recommended it to me, since then and a few other titles of different genres, I don't usually take their references for games anymore. You're seriously trying to find some scam here that doesn't exist.

As for the list, it was always my Bottom Ten, I even have criteria that I firmly listed the moment I wrote the first entry to help people understand why "such and such" awful game isn't on this list. This list only consists of games I own. I, at one point, thought all these games would be fun or worth having and I was disappointed. trout like that happens man, I'm not changing the goal line. No one buys bad games on purpose. This was never my "Worst Games of All Time" List because I would be far more scathing than I have been. I honestly feel I have been fair to the games on my list and I have been stating elements I like. I don't focus on them because these types of lists are not about that but I have made the effort to not show they are some awful monstrosity that should never be touched. I even told people in this thread to still check them out, its not like my opinion is some gold standard others should follow, of anything this list should just show how weird my taste in gaming is. I may have made a comment of why I feel a certain high profile games gets more attention than I feel it deserves, but my statement is an opinion, not me pushing what I feel is an objective proof because I frankly don't care that people love something I don't. This is why I haven't really pushed it because I have better things to do than waste my time arguing about which toys deserve our arbitrary love. I doubt putting VC on this list hurt its feelings. Its a piece of plastic with code inscribed on it that is read by a laser. I doubt Sega encoded it to have feelings that could be hurt by some dude on the internet.


I think it just eats Wolf up that Valkyria Chronicles and Demon's/Dark Souls are far and away the most influential and revered JRPGs of last generation, while Xenoblade Chronicles has already become the footnote he insists VC would otherwise be. And so we have the exaggerated "disappointment" of WKC or the asinine proposition that Valkyria Chronicles could ever be on any form of a Bottom RPG list.

Man I would hate to be in your weird echo chamber that makes some of the crazy stuff that comes out of your mouth sound sane to you.

First off, I have never said anything bad about Demon's Souls/Dark Souls, if you really paid attention to some of my posts throughout the forum, you would know I actually really like Demon's Souls when it's not kicking my posterior and I only haven't played Dark Souls because I want to finish Demon's Souls first. I would honestly agree that they were highly influential games this generation, not just for the genre but gaming in general. The reason why is because they proved that a challenging and arcade cheap game could still make it in the market and people are not dissuaded by seeing a game over every once in a while.

I don't know how you can say VC is one of the most highly influential games of this last generation. Like what has it done for gaming? I'm not being facetious, I honestly would love love to hear you actually give me details about how this game has changed the genre dramatically since it was released and how games like FFXIII, Xenoblade, Disgaea, and the genre itself wouldn't be the same without it. How is something like Xenoblade not influential? I mean US fans created a movement to get the game released out here, VC fans can't even convince Sega to release the third entry outside of Japan, let alone get a sequel back onto a console. I feel the Steam movement will change some of that but I don't believe that VC is as influential as you make it out to be. So yeah, I would love to hear your explanation about why VC is the most highly acclaimed and influential title this last generation, though you should make a thread about it because I don't need this thread derailed anymore.

As for your complaints about negative comments about games to get all buddy buddy or draw attention to oneself, I would simply say you would be better off trying to actually do something rather than be counter-productive by jumping into such threads and bemoaning the negativity of the gaming community and the toxic nature of game sites. Do something, make a thread about positive things in gaming, try to elevate gaming through inspired dissertation rather than hijacking threads and trying to shame people into agreeing with your views. You are more likely to inspire change in people by living a good example as opposed to arguing with them or making long rants about the problems without actually coming to some solution to it. So I'm going to give you one. If you want more elevated thought and conversation about gaming that focuses on the good, then start doing it yourself, you can't nag people into doing what you want, they eventually resent you for it. So take this advice from a friend and try to change what you don't like about the people you discuss games with by living a good example of what they should be.

Pike
01-14-2015, 10:56 AM
As he articulates his feelings about the games very clearly, I say Wolf has a full right to dislike the games he dislikes. De gustibus non est disputandum, after all :monster:

Yeah but if making fun of Wolf Kanno's taste is wrong then I don't want to be right! It's a hallowed tradition on this forum! :mymelbert:

metagloria
01-14-2015, 01:31 PM
better versions of FFXII with giant robot knights

*ears perk up*

Would you recommend WKC as a cheap pickup for a huge XII fan with no intention of experiencing the online content?

Fynn
01-14-2015, 01:50 PM
better versions of FFXII with giant robot knights

*ears perk up*

Would you recommend WKC as a cheap pickup for a huge XII fan with no intention of experiencing the online content?

I don't know about WKC, but Xenoblade Chronicles should fill your quota.

metagloria
01-14-2015, 02:20 PM
better versions of FFXII with giant robot knights

*ears perk up*

Would you recommend WKC as a cheap pickup for a huge XII fan with no intention of experiencing the online content?

I don't know about WKC, but Xenoblade Chronicles should fill your quota.

Already one of my top 10 games of all time. Just a hair below XII itself.

Wolf Kanno
01-15-2015, 05:16 AM
better versions of FFXII with giant robot knights

*ears perk up*

Would you recommend WKC as a cheap pickup for a huge XII fan with no intention of experiencing the online content?

If you're in it just for the gameplay, I say sure why not. The combo system is inventive even if I felt the implementation could have been handled better.

**************************************************************************************************** ********
3 More Baby!

#4 Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings
61959

Let's think back to the Crisis Core review and how I mentioned that I don't like sequels because they are lazy and too easy to do. Yeah, we're here again except there is just something about Final Fantasy XII that makes executives at SE want to meddle. I swear, the only reason why we haven't heard about FFXII HD is because the suits in Japan are conspiring on how best to smurf it up.

The game that eventually became Revenant Wings started life as a project FFX-2 Director Motomu Toriyama was working on for the DS because SE was trying to figure out how to incorporate the touch screen as a gaming medium and the games other producer, Eisuke Yokoyama thought it would be cool to try their hand at Real Time Strategy. So the project began but then SE released FFXII and decided it needed a sequel and ordered Toriyama and Yokoyama to shoe horn in the FFXII cast and plot. Seeing how the Japanese are not exactly the RTS kings of gaming, there was certainly some trial and error, being on the DS didn't help either.
61960

As a game Revenant Wings is a nice second attempt at the RTS genre, I say second because technically Heroes of Mana was released a month earlier and is also an RTS game but that one at least had the good fortune to be worked on by people who actually develop the Mana games. Basically you are allowed five Leader characters, who each control a unit of summoned monster called Yahri. You use the stylus to select units and tell them where to go. You can select groups of units or individual ones but due to the A.I. and the DS' lack of precision, this can actually be a nerve racking experience and often it's just easier to select groups. Luckily you can compartmentalize this a bit better by selecting the unit leaders on the bottom screen which will select their whole unit and then direct them that way. The fudgy controls are a bit annoying but manageable, largely because the enemy A.I. is not exactly smart so making simply mistakes is not usually very costly except during battles with Boss Units who tend to hit hard and have more HP than you'll often wish. Unit types are split into four classes, Melee, Range, Flying and Healing. Barring Healing, the other three units work on a Rock-Paper-Scissors mechanic where Flying has an advantage over melee, Range has and advantage over flying, and Melee has an advantage over range. Healing is kind of a sitting duck. Even the Leader units fall into these categories. Units are also separated by elements with Normal, Ice, Fire, Earth, Lightning, and Healing. As long as you have unlocked the unit type, you may choose in the setup screen before battle or between missions which units to use and so strategy largely comes down to elemental exploitation and making sure your strike the right balance between the four unit types. Units are also sub-dived by Class Level. Level I units are weak but require less crystals to summon and so you can pull off a Zerg swarm with them. Level II are more powerful and tend to have better skills and survivability but require more crustals to summon allowing for smaller groups of units. Level III are often Espers and Boss monsters defeated in battle, these creatures cost the most but tend to have devastating abilities. Unlike the other two units, you're only allowed to bring one of them on missions since they are effectively a re-summonable Leader unit.
61961

I know this all sounds complicated but eventually combat devolves into summon spamming minions and throwing them at the enemy until one of you falls, so it's all Russian Strategy for the most part and you don't often have to make painstaking decisions about what units to deploy. The gameplay largely comes down to missions against other units with simple goals like capturing enemy bases, defeating the boss, or just beating all enemies. On the maps, you can find resource points your units can mine/gather resources that can be used in the Hub shop to make new gear. Course you'll need recipe books to make any use of them.
61966

Gameplay is a mix bag. It's obvious that this game was designed as newbie friendly entry into the genre. It's not terribly difficult except a few late game missions and some boss battles where the game inexplicably pulls an Arc the Lad 2 and makes enemies jump 20-40 levels with no warning. Collecting the various Espers and Yahri is fun with some of the side missions, especially since the majority are even returning from FFXII or in the case of the Yahri, representing classic FF Summons like Ifrit, Shiva,Ramuh, and even Gilgamesh. The controls are not as precise as most RTS vets would like but the game's relatively low difficulty makes this a non-issue and frankly we all know SE doesn't exactly specialize in this genre so why demonize them for it?
61962

So why is this ranked so low on the list despite the gameplay being a bit simple and amateurish? Well it comes down to the issue of giving someone else franchise to another team who frankly doesn't understand the source material. One artist, and two of the three composers for FFXII returned to work on this game. No one else.
61963

Revenant Wings is about Vaan and Penelo being whisked away to sky island Lemures, hidden away from the rest of the world inhabited by the Aegyl, a race of winged people who have no emotion. There the people have suffered because their "god", Feolthanos, fled from Ivalice and the Occurians and created Lemures as a safe haven from the evils of the world by establishing a strict religious society that shuns outsiders. Feolthanos cursed the people by utilizing Auroliths which drain his people's emotions but grant him immortality, as well as giving special crystals called auracite, the power to summon the Yahri, which are basically like the souls of the Aegyl given physical form needed to perpetuate his immortality and strips his people of emotion.
61964

If that all sounded a bit familiar, replace Feolthanos with Yu Yevon, Yahri with Fayeth, and Lemures with Spira/Dream Zanarkand and you'll understand how absolutely original this all is. The plot and world was the mastermind of Motomu Toriyama, one of the creators of FFX and X-2 at the time. The party encounters Lluyd, a Aegyl who is a heretic that accepts the outsiders help and they try to stop the Judge of Wings from destroying the Auroliths that maintain the world, up until Balthier and Fran show up and explain how it's a good thing to do this because the Aegyl religion is a sham and Feolthanos isn't actually a god but a douchebag who went insane after being immortal for so damn long. Eventually Vaan meets the Yahri who beg him to stop Feolthanos and destroy the Auroliths so they can finally be free and stop living in their World of Illusion. No that is not me making a clever allusion to Dream Zanarkand, that is actually where the Yahri reside until they are summoned.

About the only really original part of the game is the Judge of Wings, who is connected to an interesting, if poorly underutilized inner-species romance plot that is kind of the core of the game's story as opposed to a Thousand Year war between Bevelle and Zanarkand.
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If the plot sounds like FFX, the the characterization is largely influenced by X-2 as the majority of the cast are bubbly and silly, even ruthless Boba-Fett wannabe BaGamman returns and spends time as the party's "pet" after he gets badly outsmarted by Vaan and Penelo. The game upgrades two very minor NPC in the form of Kytes and Filo into full characters and their are is not very different from Vaan and Penelo's own from XII in terms of hanging around more experienced adventurers and quickly being sidelined when more interesting characters show up. If you were hoping the XII cast was going to get some real development, think again. Balthier and Fran largely stick to their roles from XII as scene stealing wonders with better dialogue and what sounded like a more interesting story to follow going into the plot than Vaans. Ashe, Basch, and Larsa also show up to do absolutely nothing in the story. All three could be written out for the amount of screen time and purpose they actually carry into the story. Vaan and Penelo get some development but its mostly about Vaan always being one step behind everyone and being too dense to realize Penelo has the hots for him. There are some amusing side missions but the game is filled with the same kind of issue as X-2's story where the slapstick nature of the characters running around doesn't mesh well with a plot that actually has a much darker tone. The serious dissonance is only exasperated by the tone shift from FFXII itself, whose story is more about subtlty and has an English Theatrics flair whereas this game is cutesy and kiddy all the time. I spent the bulk of my time playing this game asking the question of "what the hell did you do to FFXII?".
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It's interesting to note that Revenant Wings producer Yokoyama doesn't consider the game a sequel, being quoted as saying "It is not accurate to call this a sequel. We want people to view it as the latest FF game. This is not FFXII-2" Indeed it is not, but I feel bad for the XII/Ivalice fans who picked this up hoping for a cool new chapter in the Ivalice series only to get a game that runs so counter to what the Ivalice franchise has stood for. This is why I hate sequels, this also why you should never hand over the reigns of a series to another team that doesn't bloody know what they are doing and whom their artistic preference is in stark contrast to the original. It's interesting to note that the Ivalice team has never really acknowledged this game. FFTA2 introduced a Winged Race to Ivalice and despite the Aegyl already existing they chose to make a new race instead. The games own producer doesn't consider it a sequel and the Ivalice team itself ignores it, I feel it's safe to say that SE is giving us fans to ignore it and say XII never had a sequel.
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Pumpkin
01-15-2015, 05:21 AM
This is also on my list of games to play

Wolf Kanno
01-15-2015, 05:23 AM
This is also on my list of games to play

I think you may actually like it to be honest. It's certainly less depressing than XII and despite it's grim plot premise, there are probably only two scenes that feel a bit dark. The game is largely the FFXII cast high on sugar and rainbows.

With that said, it's probably not as tongue and cheek about its lightheartedness as X-2 was.

Pumpkin
01-15-2015, 05:27 AM
I do like XII a good bit, it made it to my top 20

Also for the record, I'm not opposed to dark games or dark scenes xD I'm opposed to dark environments because I don't need to see brown and grey EVERYWHERE

A lot of my favourite games are actually bright environments with depressing stories because I think it shows good contrast and makes it deeper than just having everything dark for the sake of being dark and edgy. Not that all games do it for that reason, but come on, you know some do.

Kinda like Xenoblade deals with things like genocide and the like, Majora's Mask deals with all different depressing issues of people realizing they're about to die, Tales of Symphonia dealing with things like suicide, the mental illnesses shown in Xenosaga (and Xenogears) in characters like Albedo but you know what THEY HAVE A SUN AND COLOURS

Wolf Kanno
01-15-2015, 05:30 AM
True, sorry I misunderstood then. On that account I can agree that I'm not fond of darker tones all the time myself.

Pumpkin
01-15-2015, 05:34 AM
Yeah not fussing, just making it more clear so people could understand more where I'm coming from. I do have a lower tolerance for dark environments than most, I just get tired of looking and greys and browns ya know?

But I do hope I end up liking Revenant Wings because, you know, I paid money for it >.>

Wolf Kanno
01-15-2015, 05:39 AM
You might. Hope you can like it more than I did.

Also, we only have three games left on this list. Some more hints:

Only one more Final Fantasy... I'm going to let that sink in.
All three games are on different platforms.
One is a handheld.
Two of them are "sequels".
One is technically a port.
Two of them I actually hate and were the first ones on the list.

Fynn
01-15-2015, 05:53 AM
So X is actually not making the list? :onoes:

Pumpkin
01-15-2015, 05:54 AM
Could still be, but yeah I'm guessing X-2 made the list (one of my favourite games btw :P)

Fynn
01-15-2015, 05:54 AM
Nah, it's definitely XIII.

Wolf Kanno
01-15-2015, 05:55 AM
So X is actually not making the list? :onoes:

:holmes:

Scotty_ffgamer
01-15-2015, 06:24 AM
I remember renting this game as a kid and being SO disappointed. Part of that is my fault because I didn't look into it at all; I just knew it had final fantasy in the title. I hadn't beaten XII or anything when I got it (still haven't), and it makes me wonder why I ever bothered renting it.

Anywho, I still kind of want to get it and play it to completion someday just because I want to say I've beaten every Final Fantasy game/spinoff available in the US. XI and XIV will probably be my exceptions to that.

Mirage
01-15-2015, 06:34 AM
I played white knight chronicles for like... a few hours, but then I lost interest.

Jessweeee♪
01-15-2015, 07:01 AM
I heard Revenant Wings was going to be like a totally other game and they sort of patched it up to make it FFXII related.

Ayen
01-15-2015, 07:01 AM
So far Wolf has not made me rage, which is a shame because I have a lot of good gifs prepared. Will he make me rage before this list is up?

Probably not.

Wolf Kanno
01-15-2015, 07:04 AM
So far Wolf has not made me rage, which is a shame because I have a lot of good gifs prepared. Will he make me rage before this list is up?

Probably not.

My actual list will probably not make you rage. Though if I did honorable mentions, those would.

Ayen
01-15-2015, 07:18 AM
You're getting a bag of burning poop on your front porch.

Fynn
01-15-2015, 08:51 AM
So far Wolf has not made me rage, which is a shame because I have a lot of good gifs prepared. Will he make me rage before this list is up?

Probably not.

My actual list will probably not make you rage. Though if I did honorable mentions, those would.

Please, for the good of us all, do honorable mentions!

Del Murder
01-15-2015, 04:06 PM
I liked RW though it didn't really need the FFXII tie-in.

metagloria
01-15-2015, 05:24 PM
Revenant Wings was SO BAD. Or rather, it was kind of cool for about 10-15 hours, and then an absolute slog to the end. WK did a great job writing about it!

Fynn
01-15-2015, 05:35 PM
I actually really enjoyed Revenant Wings for its gameplay and some light funny script at times. And then came the level bump. Who the fuck thought that's good game design? :stare:

Still, while I don't think the story's terrible, it's pretty clearly a retelling of X-2's story without the fanservice and an added (very thin and superficial) coating of Ivalice on top of that. I pretty much agree with everyone here that the FFXII-sequel aspect was completely unnecessary. Still, it's not completely unacknowledged in future games. I believe FFTA2 referenced it a bit? Kinda? ...no?

Skyblade
01-16-2015, 04:33 AM
I actually really enjoyed Revenant Wings. Up until the gameplay just quit.

I was doing all the missions and sidequests, leveling up my stuff, and generally just enjoying Ivalice, despite numerous little flaws. Then I got to a fight, and wound up against a boss that was simply unkillable.

I think it was Ultima. But, anyway, here's how it played out: I sent a ton of summoned monsters against her. She used an attack that wiped them all out instantly. So I tried again. It happened again. I send only a few against her, keeping the rest in reserve. She doesn't use the ability, kills them herself, and takes basically no damage.

You can't whittle her down, and you don't have nearly the control scheme needed for successful micro management. She's not the only boss that does this. Basically all of the endgame bosses have an ability that just ENDS your entire army with no questions asked. Max level? Doesn't matter. Built up a force for half an hour, with top tier foes, properly aligned elements and everything? Doesn't matter. Instant death. Deal with it.

The way the game teaches you to play the entire time is thrown out the window and you are left with basically no alternatives because "group up and attack en masse" is basically all you can do with that control scheme.

The boss couldn't kill me, and couldn't make me end the mission, but there was nothing I could do to win. I turned it off and completely forgot about it.

Del Murder
01-16-2015, 06:59 AM
I don't remember having issues with any bosses. It was all pretty easy.

Ayen
01-16-2015, 07:02 AM
Revenant Wings was SO BAD. Or rather, it was kind of cool for about 10-15 hours, and then an absolute slog to the end. WK did a great job writing about it!

Sounds the same as the original FFXII, honestly.

Fynn
01-16-2015, 07:18 AM
Revenant Wings was SO BAD. Or rather, it was kind of cool for about 10-15 hours, and then an absolute slog to the end. WK did a great job writing about it!

Sounds the same as the original FFXII, honestly.

did you just

Ayen
01-16-2015, 07:23 AM
Revenant Wings was SO BAD. Or rather, it was kind of cool for about 10-15 hours, and then an absolute slog to the end. WK did a great job writing about it!

Sounds the same as the original FFXII, honestly.

did you just

What? It does slogs when you get close to the end. All that running around and trout. I wanted to punch a guy in the face.

Fynn
01-16-2015, 07:26 AM
Revenant Wings was SO BAD. Or rather, it was kind of cool for about 10-15 hours, and then an absolute slog to the end. WK did a great job writing about it!

Sounds the same as the original FFXII, honestly.

did you just

What? It does slogs when you get close to the end. All that running around and trout. I wanted to punch a guy in the face.

https://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lv70h8EC1k1r058cd.jpg

Rocket Edge
01-16-2015, 11:09 AM
It's a game I always wanted to play but never got around to it. I'm still not a big handheld device player so that's what probably turned me off. Seems it was for the best.

Loony BoB
01-16-2015, 12:56 PM
How did I not see this thread earlier? Just gonna post now to say XIII is definitely #1, everything else I'm not certain about. Especially if that makes the other two sequels and one of those sequels is a handheld game. I'm not really big on handheld so yeah.

Reading these threads always makes me really grateful for my inability to dislike a game as much as other people seem to. I get so much more enjoyment out of my gaming than they do, which can only be a good thing for me. ^^;

Still, it's fun to read bits and bobs (I've had to skimread as I'm far behind and don't know/haven't played most of the games). Crisis Core is the only one that I've played more than a few minutes of and I can see the reasoning but it just doesn't bother me so much. Genesis was meh, but the game itself was enjoyable for me, especially at the end (well, enjoyable might be the wrong word... good, definitely, but sad).

Rocket Edge
01-16-2015, 01:37 PM
To be fair WK said somewhere at the start of the thread that he only really dislikes about 4 of these games, and it makes for an entertaining thread so why not. Theres haters out there of course but almost everyone buys a game with the hopes of loving it. I'd place myself on the same boat as you though. I'll say I loved FFXII for instance but many parts of the story IMO was weak.

Ayen
01-16-2015, 06:06 PM
Reading these threads always makes me really grateful for my inability to dislike a game as much as other people seem to.

Let's put that inability to the test. Play Superman 64. I dare you.

Loony BoB
01-16-2015, 08:57 PM
I don't like Superman, so I'll give it a miss.

Fynn
01-16-2015, 09:28 PM
I don't like Superman, so I'll give it a miss.

You actually dislike something? :onoes:

Mirage
01-17-2015, 12:08 AM
Breaking: Loony Bob acquires personality!

Jessweeee♪
01-17-2015, 05:14 PM
WK is gonna make XIII not on the list just to spite everyone :shifty:

Fynn
01-17-2015, 05:21 PM
WK is gonna make XIII not on the list just to spite everyone :shifty:

Oh, it's definitely gonna be on the list. I just have my doubts about it being number 1.

Slothy
01-17-2015, 07:46 PM
WK is gonna make XIII not on the list just to spite everyone :shifty:

He might have thought about it, but I think his skin would crawl so much it'd tear itself off and leave the room if he actually did it.

Ayen
01-17-2015, 08:08 PM
Wolf bought the game at full price didn't he? Because I only rented it for seven bucks and am still pretty sour about it. I can only imagine what paying sixty bucks for it would have been like.

Slothy
01-17-2015, 09:15 PM
Wolf bought the game at full price didn't he? Because I only rented it for seven bucks and am still pretty sour about it. I can only imagine what paying sixty bucks for it would have been like.

I borrowed it from a friend, but if you want to get technical, I blame the game for killing my old PS3 and making me buy the one I have now. So it cost me about $300 I guess?

Ayen
01-17-2015, 09:58 PM
Wolf bought the game at full price didn't he? Because I only rented it for seven bucks and am still pretty sour about it. I can only imagine what paying sixty bucks for it would have been like.

I borrowed it from a friend, but if you want to get technical, I blame the game for killing my old PS3 and making me buy the one I have now. So it cost me about $300 I guess?

Did you smash the game with a hammer after it did that? Because you should have.

Wolf Kanno
01-17-2015, 10:46 PM
Sorry I haven't updated. I wrote up something last night and I took so long the page froze and I had to refresh and lost everything. I'll try to re-type it later this weekend.

Yellow_Magic
01-17-2015, 10:46 PM
Wow, didn't expect to see Valkyria Chronicles on here *_* Granted, I dropped it myself - but it's regarded as a classic by tons of gamers. I totally get your reasoning, though.

Pike
01-18-2015, 12:02 AM
Sorry I haven't updated. I wrote up something last night and I took so long the page froze and I had to refresh and lost everything. I'll try to re-type it later this weekend.

This is why you install the Lazarus browser extension.

VeloZer0
01-18-2015, 02:08 AM
Sorry I haven't updated. I wrote up something last night and I took so long the page froze and I had to refresh and lost everything. I'll try to re-type it later this weekend.

This is why you install the Lazarus browser extension.

That's why you type long detailed things in text editors and copy/paste instead of web text entry boxes.

Ayen
01-18-2015, 02:09 AM
The site was just all "Oh, it's Wolf Kanno again making a super long post. ...OM NOM NOM!"

Spooniest
01-18-2015, 02:33 AM
I really hope Beyond The Beyond made the list. It might be that Wolf Kanno wasn't dumb enough to waste his money on a clear turd.

...Not true of me. :| I was disappoint

Polnareff
01-18-2015, 02:39 AM
I wonder if Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter will make the list.

Spooniest
01-18-2015, 03:03 AM
I still kind of want to get it and play it to completion someday just because I want to say I've beaten every Final Fantasy game/spinoff available in the US. XI and XIV will probably be my exceptions to that.

One has to question the merit of designing a game that can't be won.

I've never cared for MMO's for this reason.

Fynn
01-18-2015, 05:51 AM
I wonder if Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter will make the list.

It definitely won't. I've talked about it with him on several occasions. We agreed that the game is really good, if a bit strange compared to the other entries.

Scotty_ffgamer
01-18-2015, 06:18 AM
I still kind of want to get it and play it to completion someday just because I want to say I've beaten every Final Fantasy game/spinoff available in the US. XI and XIV will probably be my exceptions to that.

One has to question the merit of designing a game that can't be won.

I've never cared for MMO's for this reason.

You can complete their storylines though. I feel like XI and XIV would make a good candidate for being able to "win." The problem is I don't have time for them, and (at least with XI) might not even really exist by the time I do have time to get to it.

Ayen
01-18-2015, 06:21 AM
You can complete their storylines though. I feel like XI and XIV would make a good candidate for being able to "win." The problem is I don't have time for them, and (at least with XI) might not even really exist by the time I do have time to get to it.

If you can get pass the stupid Play Online bulltrout. I decided to skip XI altogether for this very reason.

Wolf Kanno
01-18-2015, 07:26 AM
Sorry I haven't updated. I wrote up something last night and I took so long the page froze and I had to refresh and lost everything. I'll try to re-type it later this weekend.

This is why you install the Lazarus browser extension.

That's why you type long detailed things in text editors and copy/paste instead of web text entry boxes.

Duly noted.


The site was just all "Oh, it's Wolf Kanno again making a super long post. ...OM NOM NOM!"

Lol



WK is gonna make XIII not on the list just to spite everyone :shifty:

He might have thought about it, but I think his skin would crawl so much it'd tear itself off and leave the room if he actually did it.

Well, we'll have to see. Only one FF is left, one sequel, one handheld, and possibly one more surprise. :shifty:


How did I not see this thread earlier? Just gonna post now to say XIII is definitely #1, everything else I'm not certain about. Especially if that makes the other two sequels and one of those sequels is a handheld game. I'm not really big on handheld so yeah.

Reading these threads always makes me really grateful for my inability to dislike a game as much as other people seem to. I get so much more enjoyment out of my gaming than they do, which can only be a good thing for me. ^^;

Still, it's fun to read bits and bobs (I've had to skimread as I'm far behind and don't know/haven't played most of the games). Crisis Core is the only one that I've played more than a few minutes of and I can see the reasoning but it just doesn't bother me so much. Genesis was meh, but the game itself was enjoyable for me, especially at the end (well, enjoyable might be the wrong word... good, definitely, but sad).

Yeah, these types of threads are amusing. I did have the funness of discovering this little gem while hunting down images for my posts.

62095

Wow, didn't expect to see Valkyria Chronicles on here *_* Granted, I dropped it myself - but it's regarded as a classic by tons of gamers. I totally get your reasoning, though.

Yeah... I knew before I made this thread I was going to get some serious flak for that one.


I really hope Beyond The Beyond made the list. It might be that Wolf Kanno wasn't dumb enough to waste his money on a clear turd.

...Not true of me. :| I was disappoint

I can tell you now that it won't be here. I almost want to play it to see how bad it is.



I still kind of want to get it and play it to completion someday just because I want to say I've beaten every Final Fantasy game/spinoff available in the US. XI and XIV will probably be my exceptions to that.

One has to question the merit of designing a game that can't be won.

I've never cared for MMO's for this reason.

Honestly, XI was actually pretty fun to play. I just happen to the type of person who doesn't like committing to the long grind or constant socializing to get anywhere to take me to the next level with it but in terms of story and world, it's a really good FF game.


I wonder if Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter will make the list.

Yeah, as Fynn mentioned, not going to happen. I actually really enjoyed Dragon Quarter but with that said, I'm not surprised that game gets a lot of flak from the fanbase because the SOL system is a truly love-it-or-hate-it mechanic and it really makes or breaks the game. There are other points of contention but for me that is the one I can understand why people don't like it.

Pike
01-18-2015, 11:07 AM
Sorry I haven't updated. I wrote up something last night and I took so long the page froze and I had to refresh and lost everything. I'll try to re-type it later this weekend.

This is why you install the Lazarus browser extension.

That's why you type long detailed things in text editors and copy/paste instead of web text entry boxes.

Too much work when you can just install a browser extension that auto-saves everything you type :monster:


Honestly, XI was actually pretty fun to play. I just happen to the type of person who doesn't like committing to the long grind or constant socializing to get anywhere to take me to the next level with it but in terms of story and world, it's a really good FF game.

You should do what I do and take the massively-multiplayer out of MMOs and play them alone. (Yes, I know this isn't how it's intended. I don't care. Solo WoW is a blast.)

VeloZer0
01-18-2015, 05:27 PM
Sorry I haven't updated. I wrote up something last night and I took so long the page froze and I had to refresh and lost everything. I'll try to re-type it later this weekend.

This is why you install the Lazarus browser extension.

That's why you type long detailed things in text editors and copy/paste instead of web text entry boxes.

Too much work when you can just install a browser extension that auto-saves everything you type :monster:
Then you also don't run the risk of accidentally submitting it before it is done. On a forum post not so bad, but it is a habit I got into from typing long and potentially sensitive business-type e-mails.

That and something as long and detailed as these write ups I would imagine you want to save a permanent copy anyways.

Ayen
01-19-2015, 12:08 AM
You should do what I do and take the massively-multiplayer out of MMOs and play them alone. (Yes, I know this isn't how it's intended. I don't care. Solo WoW is a blast.)

I pretty much done this for Star Trek Online, Star Wars: TOR, and DC Universe Online, but mainly because I'm anti-social on these things. Enjoyed them all immensely. I do hope DC Universe Online stopped having maintenance with no prior warning. I was once in the middle of a boss fight and got kicked off the server because the game had to run a maintenance on itself. Just when I was starting to win. Figures.

Wolf Kanno
01-19-2015, 05:15 AM
#3 Lufia the Ruins of Lore
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So I wouldn't be surprised if many of you have never even heard of Lufia, let alone the fourth game in the series franchise. Lufia was a series developed by Taito, Natsume, and Neverland for the SNES back in the day, it was actually called Estpolis Genki in Japan and renamed in the US to Lufia, after the main characters female childhood friend who plays an important role in the story. It featured standard turn-based combat combined with a heavier emphasis on puzzle solving in dungeons. The story revolves around a world where god like beings known as Sinistrals have reached the twilight of their reign as the mystical Dual Blade has signaled the end of their days and the rise of mortals as the rulers of their own destiny. Four of the Sinistrals, in a vain attempt to thwart fate lash out against mankind and the mortals, causing the young hero Maxim to rise up with his allies and defeat them. The rest of the series revolves around the conflict of these gods and the Maxim bloodline. Many fans consider the second game in the series to be the best entry and since then the series has kind of floundered with a half-hearted attempt at a sequel on the GBC and then this game on the GBA.

62108

Ruins of Lore is a Gaiden game, which means that it's more of a sidestory unrelated to the main series. It is also the only entry not developed by Neverland but instead was developed by a third party developer working with Taito. The game takes place 20 years after Lufia 2 and revolves around Eldin, a young warrior wanting to make his family proud and finally striking out on his own. His father is the best friend of the son of Maxim, who doesn't really appear in this story because Maxim doesn't have an heir that's relevant until the unnamed hero of Lufia 1. None of that is really relevant either. He meets a Priestess named Rubius, who is trying to stop Ragule from using the local evil military super power to help him collect magic artifacts to summon "The Beast" and rule/destroy the world. If that sounds pretty generic and cliche for the genre, well it is, and no it doesn't get better. Despite taking place in the Lufia world, the game makes no mention of the Sinistrals or Dual Blade, hell beyond a few name drops, a rather lousy use of a fan fave character for a brief moment, and using a few locations from the main games; it really has absolutely nothing to do with Lufia. It could have just as well had been a new IP considering how poorly it uses the source material. Granted gaiden games can often get away with this stuff but the issue comes down to the fact the plot is pretty bland and it becomes pretty clear that Taito may have just slapped on the Lufia title to just make sure it sold a few more copies by being loosely connected to the cult series. An actual game about Dekar would have been much better personally.

62109

Gameplay has always been a mixed bag for the franchise. It uses typical Turn-Based combat in all installments except the Lufia 2 remake. The game drops the really cool equipment system from Lufia 2 and the more interesting Spiritual Force system from The Legend Returns, instead it adopts a fairly generic job system with the whole gang of the usual D&D inspired classes with the names changed to make them sound less generic. The game's only really cool addition was bringing back the Capsule Monster mechanic though it now has a Pokemon element. In Lufia 2, you could recruit special monster that represent 7 elements in the game and feed them gear to level them up and watch them evolve into more powerful monsters with new skills. This is brought back but instead of being designated monsters, they are any enemy monsters. You can basically capture weakened monster with Monster Disc in a way that is a blatant rip-off from Pokemon. Sadly the mechanic doesn't have the same focus as Pokemon and MegaTen so it often feels more like a gimmicky mechanic as you stick to party members.

62110

The game still utilizes puzzles but tools are now relegated one per party member a la Wild ARMS resulting in dungeons requiring some party shifting. The puzzles are also much easier than some of the hair pulling nonsense Lufia 2 gave you which is great for newbies who don't like the game flow being stopped by being stuck with a puzzle but it's a little aggravating for veteran players who often see the puzzles as the most memorable gameplay experience Lufia has to offer that separates it from the regular RPG fold. Another annoying element is the lack of save points in dungeons. There is a quick save feature which makes this a non-issue but it just seems a bit weird to not have them, especially considering its a handheld game and the dungeons are surprisingly long at times. Also the game pulls that obnoxious point and click world map gimick that was really popular in the early 2000s for several RPGs so there is no traversible map meaning little in terms of exploring beyond dungeons.

62111

Basically imagine Nintendo announced a GoldenEye sequel on the GameCube, but instead of using Rare they went with some third rate company. The game was written to be about a British soldier who comes in to help in the big scale battles at the end of most Bond films, and he and his crack unit need to track down some terrorist that bought a nuke off the black market, not Bond villain terrorist, just regualr run-of -the-mill terrorist that you see in media. The character never deals with MI6 and the highlight is the one mission where you run into Q but it's practically an Easter Egg rather than a real event and the rest of the game is traveling through desert cities and jungle areas hunting terrorist with your squad. The game isn't particularly bad, it's just really mediocre and without the heavy Bond stuff, if frankly feels like a mediocre run of the mill FPS. That is what this game is in a nutshell.

62112

For me, I really enjoyed the SNES era Lufia titles, which I always felt had the potential to grow into a really strong franchise but after the issues with The Legend Returns, and now the absolute sub par Ruins of Lore, I understand why it took SE a decade to even consider revisiting this IP and did so with a questionable remake of one of the more popular entries. It's games like this that kill good series. Not absolutely terrible but so mediocre that it makes you forget it as soon as you stop playing.

**************************************************************************************************** ****

So I'm down to my final two and can pretty much say these are the two that I really hate. Everything up until now have been games that were disappointing but I would still probably play them if the mood struck me. I may also do an honorable mention section as well but I'm debating on that....

The last two were the first two I wrote on this list, and in fact, if this list was either my worse games of all time instead of just my bottom 10 or even not restricted to what I own, you bet these two would still have made this list.

Pumpkin
01-19-2015, 05:40 AM
I've heard of Lufia, but never played it. Might get around to it one day

Ayen
01-19-2015, 05:47 AM
I like the artwork in those pictures.

Wolf Kanno
01-19-2015, 05:50 AM
Yeah the graphics weren't too bad. Though some of the designs from Lufia 1 are still frigging awesome. Funny enough I feel Lufia 2 might have the cheesiest graphics of all the games though the GBC one gives it a run for its money.

Scotty_ffgamer
01-19-2015, 06:07 AM
I really do want to play the first two Lufia games someday.

Fynn
01-19-2015, 06:37 AM
Yeah the graphics weren't too bad. Though some of the designs from Lufia 1 are still frigging awesome. Funny enough I feel Lufia 2 might have the cheesiest graphics of all the games though the GBC one gives it a run for its money.

I remember those Lufia 2 graphics. They were so '80s!

That reminds me that I need to get back to that LP someday :shifty:

Pumpkin
01-19-2015, 06:38 AM
Yeah the graphics weren't too bad. Though some of the designs from Lufia 1 are still frigging awesome. Funny enough I feel Lufia 2 might have the cheesiest graphics of all the games though the GBC one gives it a run for its money.

I remember those Lufia 2 graphics. They were so '80s!

That reminds me that I need to get back to that LP someday :shifty:

YEAH :colbert:

Wolf Kanno
01-19-2015, 06:43 AM
Yeah the graphics are really weird with the tile sets for building and towns looking pretty FFV/VI whereas the sprites and non-major enemies always looked dorkishly cartooney like a cross between DQ, Earthbound, and FFV.

Rin Heartilly
01-19-2015, 01:20 PM
Holy crow, I actually own almost every game on this list :O

I still love Valkyria Chronicles though! The gameplay was fun and I felt bad for Selvaria :(

Crisis core was good too (minus Genesis and the fact that I couldn't grind levels the way I wanted because of those slots grr) but there was a lot of feels shed for Zack at the end. I basically love Crisis core for Zack alone. That's right, smurf you Cloud, Zack is 100x better than you in every aspect. Yeah. I went there.

Loony BoB
01-19-2015, 02:23 PM
Sorry I haven't updated. I wrote up something last night and I took so long the page froze and I had to refresh and lost everything. I'll try to re-type it later this weekend.
Restore Auto-Saved Content ftw. You could have got it all back... :(

Yeah, these types of threads are amusing. I did have the funness of discovering this little gem while hunting down images for my posts.

62095
51. The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind - PC, 2002
52. Batman: Arkham City - PS3, 2011
53. Alundra - PSX, 1997
54. Grandia II - PS2, 2000
55. EoFF: Sick Irony - PC, 2000
56. Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced - GBA, 2003
57. Crysis - PC, 2007
58. Dune - PC, 1992
59. Mario Kart 64 - N64, 1996
60. Worms (series) - PC, 1995-2003
61. Final Fantasy XII - PS2, 2006
62. Resistance: Fall of Man - PS3, 2006
63. Burnout Paradise - PS3, 2008
64. inFamous - PS3, 2008
65. UFO: Enemy Unknown - PC, 1994
66. Deus Ex: Human Revolution - PS3, 2012
67. Wipeout HD - PS3, 2008
68. SimCity (series) - PC, 1989-2003
69. Streets of Rage (series) - SMD, 1991-1994
70. Star Control - PC, 1990
71. Gothic II - PC, 2002
72. Lost Odyssey - 360, 2007
73. Crash Bandicoot (Naughty dog series) - PSX, 1996-1998
74. Civilization II - PC, 1996
75. Squarez Deluxe! - PC, 1998
76. Need For Speed III: Hot Pursuit - PSX, 1998
77. Destruction Derby - PSX, 1995
78. Syndicate - PC, 1993
79. Army of Two: The 40th Day - PS3, 2010
80. Jump 'n Bump - PC, 1998
81. Wolfenstein 3D - PC, 1992
82. Duke Nukem - PC, 1991
83. Tomb Raider (2013) - PS3, 2013
84. Final Fantasy IX - PSX, 2000
85. Sonic the Hedgehog 2 - SMD, 1992
86. Jetpack - PC, 1993
87. The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - PC, 2006

:stare:

Polnareff
01-19-2015, 03:12 PM
I seriously thought that Ruins of Lore was the second best game in the series. I wish I could find a legit copy of it.

I didn't notice until Rin pointed it out that Valkyria Chronicles was on the list.

VC was a weird game for me. I appreciated the battle system but there was so little variety that you basically did the same thing over and over for the whole game. I loved the graphics though.

In this case, I actually prefer VC2 for PSP, since the stages are smaller and there seemed to be more variety.

Wolf Kanno
01-19-2015, 06:31 PM
I seriously thought that Ruins of Lore was the second best game in the series. I wish I could find a legit copy of it.

I felt it was a lost opportunity and the game kind of felt more like other RPGs of the time than the Lufia series I grew up with. Frankly, Lufia's world is only interesting because of the whole Sinistral/Dual Blade dynamic so dropping it for a plot that sounds like the sea of other JRPGs out there was not exactly exciting for me. The puzzles were also not as exciting and while I liked the Pokemon monster catching aspect, I just felt the Job System was again, a bit too straight forward and borrowed from better games whereas I felt Lufia 2 and The Legend Returns had far more interesting and original customization systems. I may have liked the game a bit better had it not been given the Lufia title, but I also feel it would have been 10x more forgettable because nothing about the game really stands out from its peers.


I didn't notice until Rin pointed it out that Valkyria Chronicles was on the list.

VC was a weird game for me. I appreciated the battle system but there was so little variety that you basically did the same thing over and over for the whole game. I loved the graphics though.

In this case, I actually prefer VC2 for PSP, since the stages are smaller and there seemed to be more variety.

Funny enough, when I was looking up a few things on the game when I was doing the write up, I came to the conclusion I may have actually enjoyed the sequels a bit better, specifically VCIII, which sounds more like the game I was kind of expecting VC to be.

Spuuky
01-19-2015, 06:37 PM
Lufia 1 and 2 are so great. I haven't played this game, though.

Wolf Kanno
01-19-2015, 06:39 PM
Lufia 1 and 2 are so great. I haven't played this game, though.

Yeah, I really enjoyed the first two. Maybe I went into this game with high expectations and felt disappointed but I just really couldn't get into it. Check it out though, like Polnareff, you may get something out of it that I couldn't.

Polnareff
01-19-2015, 06:40 PM
My thing with Ruins of Lore is that is actually did remind me of the second game, just pared down a bit with the puzzles. Lufia 1 ranks third for me, and the GB game ranks dead last. ^^; Not gonna stop me from buying the GBC game on the eShop though.

I never played VC3. I did get a lot farther in VC2 than I ever did in VC1, though. The only thing that stopped me from playing it again was losing my save file.....

Egami
01-20-2015, 12:56 AM
Damn, been years since i last visited this forum! :)

Anyway, really cool thread so far Wolf, haven't played most of the titles but I agree with your points about Crisis Core. VII is my favorite FF game and one of my favorite games ever but I didn't like Crisis Core at all, specially it's disregard for the canon and Genesis who has one of the most cringe worthy dialogue/characterisation I have ever seen in a video game. Sadly this style has very much become the norm in modern FF titles; where the dialogue is mostly about melodramatic statements and vague metaphors which come off as contrived and do nothing to flesh out a character or advance the plot but rather end up making the characters feel stereotypical and unrelatable. This scene from the game very much embodies everything that is wrong with it and a great part of modern FF titles, all style and cool flashy graphics with no substance or relevance starting characters acting/talking in ways that no human person acts like (which ends up making them unrelatable):

1KxjGn30PDA

For my part, when it comes to the FFVII compilation I am of the opinion that it shouldn't have been made, just like The Matrix sequels. The original game just like the original movie was complete as is, self-contained and having no need for sequels or prequels.

Looking forward to the rest of the list, not really troubled by any of the choices so far :p

Pete for President
01-20-2015, 06:21 AM
Damn, been years since i last visited this forum! :)

Anyway, really cool thread so far Wolf, haven't played most of the titles but I agree with your points about Crisis Core. VII is my favorite FF game and one of my favorite games ever but I didn't like Crisis Core at all, specially it's disregard for the canon and Genesis who has one of the most cringe worthy dialogue/characterisation I have ever seen in a video game. Sadly this style has very much become the norm in modern FF titles; where the dialogue is mostly about melodramatic statements and vague metaphors which come off as contrived and do nothing to flesh out a character or advance the plot but rather end up making the characters feel stereotypical and unrelatable. This scene from the game very much embodies everything that is wrong with it and a great part of modern FF titles, all style and cool flashy graphics with no substance or relevance starting characters acting/talking in ways that no human person acts like (which ends up making them unrelatable):

1KxjGn30PDA

For my part, when it comes to the FFVII compilation I am of the opinion that it shouldn't have been made, just like The Matrix sequels. The original game just like the original movie was complete as is, self-contained and having no need for sequels or prequels.

Looking forward to the rest of the list, not really troubled by any of the choices so far :p

Never played Crisis Core, but the cringe is definitely real in that clip :erm:

Mirage
01-20-2015, 06:38 AM
Heh. It's even worse than I thought it would be.

Ayen
01-20-2015, 06:57 AM
Like most characters that annoy the fanbase, Genesis never bothered me that much. They obviously didn't make me care about him, but the only character who makes me want to rip off my own ears is Snow. Only time Genesis bother me was when the writers decided to put him in the infamous Mako reactor scene WHERE HE DOESN'T BELONG!

Egami
01-20-2015, 04:16 PM
Like most characters that annoy the fanbase, Genesis never bothered me that much. They obviously didn't make me care about him, but the only character who makes me want to rip off my own ears is Snow. Only time Genesis bother me was when the writers decided to put him in the infamous Mako reactor scene WHERE HE DOESN'T BELONG!

Yes Snow is insufferable as well, probably my favorite thing about XIII is that we see Lighting hit him repeatedly. Agreed about the sacrilege that was putting Genesis in the Mako reactor scene, seriously what where they thinking?

NeoCracker
01-20-2015, 09:03 PM
Oh god I forgot about this one entirely. LIke, I remember nothing about it other then I played it, got bored, and dropped it. Really while I could kind of dig The Legend Returns, I could never really get into that one either.

Still haven't touched the DS one that got made. :p

Skyblade
01-20-2015, 10:01 PM
The worst bit about that clip is that it's not even the worst part of Crisis Core.

Del Murder
01-21-2015, 09:19 PM
Why is everyone talking about FFXIII when that wasn't even on WK's list (yet)?

Back on topic...I never even knew Lufia had more sequels other than Lufia 2 though it looks like it's better that I didn't know. I really liked the first two Lufia games. Lufia 2 in particular had some of the best puzzle solving in an RPG.

Fynn
01-21-2015, 09:30 PM
I think we can just... feel it. We all know it's coming

Scotty_ffgamer
01-22-2015, 05:53 AM
The Snow discussion has been moved here:

http://home.eyesonff.com/showthread.php/161375-Opinions-on-the-XIII-Characters-particularly-Snow/page3

Wolf Kanno
01-22-2015, 10:19 PM
Sorry this is taking so long, a combination of real life issues and debating how to go about the next entry keeps postponing it. I'm debating about doing something special for one of the two but I frankly don't feel like I have the time. So just wait and see.

More clues:

One of the games is an action-rpg, the other wishes it was.

One game has an obnoxious save system that sucks the suspense out of the game, the other one doesn't actually have a save system.

Both games were available on PC.

Both games try to get around grinding issues and manage to make it worse.

I feel both games are poor knockoffs of better games either in terms of themes or gameplay.

Ayen
01-22-2015, 10:24 PM
Uhh... Uhh... Uh.

I got nothing.

Pumpkin
01-22-2015, 10:25 PM
Is... is one of them Dawn of Mana? Although I thought you said you had to go back and play it or something...

I gots nothing

Wolf Kanno
01-22-2015, 10:27 PM
It's not a Mana game. Honestly, most of you have probably never even heard of one of them let alone played it.

Spuuky
01-22-2015, 10:30 PM
The Last Remnant

Ayen
01-22-2015, 10:35 PM
Is it a game you didn't like?

Wolf Kanno
01-22-2015, 10:51 PM
Is it a game you didn't like?

http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac314/Wolf0Kanno/3ebrr.gif

Ayen
01-22-2015, 10:52 PM
WAAAAAAH! You're so mean! SO MEAN!

Fynn
01-23-2015, 05:35 AM
I am now convinced FFXIII is #1.

Ayen
01-23-2015, 05:43 AM
http://i.imgur.com/a4mbGWA.gif

Pumpkin
01-23-2015, 05:45 AM
XIII had a normal save system though didn't it?

Mirage
01-23-2015, 07:04 AM
But seriously canoe why is valkyria lower than the abomination known as xenosaga?

Fynn
01-23-2015, 07:25 AM
But seriously canoe why is valkyria lower than the abomination known as xenosaga?

I'm guessing because he didn't like it?

chionos
01-23-2015, 07:38 AM
XIII had a normal save system though didn't it?

I assumed he was referring to FFXIII as the game that had a save system that sucked the suspense out of the story. Which is based on the idea that one of these last two games is FFXIII.

There's always the possibility that WK finds FFXIII so atrocious and offensive that it doesn't even deserve to be on a "bottom 10" list since that would be giving it too much credit.

I can pretty much understand the list so far. Nothing too surprising. I just hope that I can finish XIII before WK posts his rant about it. I don't want to be convinced not to finish it.

Loony BoB
01-23-2015, 11:22 AM
That's why I play games and make up my own mind about them rather than relying on one person's opinion, chionos. xD And yeah, FFXIII is without doubt one of the last two, we've all known that from the get-go though.

The most amusing part about this list is that it actually makes me want to try these games because if WK hates another game I really enjoy, maybe I'll really enjoy these ones too. :smash:

Pike
01-23-2015, 11:31 AM
I'm still waiting for this game that WK said I'd played before

Del Murder
01-23-2015, 04:42 PM
That's why I play games and make up my own mind about them rather than relying on one person's opinion, chionos. xD And yeah, FFXIII is without doubt one of the last two, we've all known that from the get-go though.

The most amusing part about this list is that it actually makes me want to try these games because if WK hates another game I really enjoy, maybe I'll really enjoy these ones too. :smash:
I heard he really hates eating poop too. You should give that a try.

Loony BoB
01-23-2015, 04:54 PM
EDIT: All my desired responses to the above post involve Del Murder's mother and I have decided to no longer comment out of decency. :(

Fynn
01-23-2015, 04:55 PM
Jesus! People! :stare:

Loony BoB
01-23-2015, 04:57 PM
He started it! *runs*

Pumpkin
01-23-2015, 04:58 PM
Poor Wolf Kanno's thread

Skyblade
01-23-2015, 05:13 PM
I am kind of shocked to learn that they released FFXIII on PC. Did not know that. Would probably play on PC if I were ever to play it again. But, let's face it, not worth purchasing twice.

sharkythesharkdogg
01-23-2015, 05:21 PM
Will it be something random like Return to Krondor?






























No. No, it wont'.

Del Murder
01-23-2015, 05:32 PM
EDIT: All my desired responses to the above post involve Del Murder's mother and I have decided to no longer comment out of decency. :(
Dammit I missed it.

chionos
01-23-2015, 06:08 PM
I am kind of shocked to learn that they released FFXIII on PC. Did not know that. Would probably play on PC if I were ever to play it again. But, let's face it, not worth purchasing once.

There. Fixed.

Or maybe I read it wrong. Maybe you meant:


I am kind of shocked to learn that they released FFXIII. Did not know that. Would probably keep in the WC if I were ever to play it again. But, let's face it, not even worth pissing on.

Pumpkin
01-23-2015, 06:09 PM
You guys are going to hate my list

Madame Adequate
01-23-2015, 10:23 PM
I bet it's The Granstream Saga and then Digimon World 2.

Ayen
01-23-2015, 11:01 PM
You guys are going to hate my list

Your opening post should be a picture of you in riot gear. -nods-

Slothy
01-24-2015, 02:31 AM
You guys are going to hate my list

It's okay though. We can still be friends.

Wolf Kanno
01-24-2015, 03:41 AM
That's why I play games and make up my own mind about them rather than relying on one person's opinion, chionos. xD And yeah, FFXIII is without doubt one of the last two, we've all known that from the get-go though.

The most amusing part about this list is that it actually makes me want to try these games because if WK hates another game I really enjoy, maybe I'll really enjoy these ones too. :smash:
I heard he really hates eating poop too. You should give that a try.

This analogy reminded me of this comic.
62212


I'm still waiting for this game that WK said I'd played before

I'm actually starting to think you may have not played it, but I know Mister Adequate has.



But seriously canoe why is valkyria lower than the abomination known as xenosaga?

I'm guessing because he didn't like it?

62213


Will it be something random like Return to Krondor?






























No. No, it wont'.

I feel it's for the best.


I bet it's The Granstream Saga and then Digimon World 2.

Afraid not, I took one look at Gainstream Saga and figured it was not going to please me. The only Digimon game I've played is Digimon World Dusk which was surprisingly fun.

Mirage
01-24-2015, 05:53 AM
so stop messing around and post the damned games already

Wolf Kanno
01-24-2015, 06:38 AM
Hey... recording audio and editing video while working a job and dealing with family takes time. It's coming.

XjzC2DRgEo4

Don't worry, the next two are on their way... :shifty:

Mirage
01-24-2015, 06:52 AM
You're starting to sound like Square Enix...

We have an announcement to make: We will make an announcement next week!